Possible compromise on TV Stones to make it both rewarding & risky for all

Rev Rielle

Honestly, with the problems the game has in PvP at the moment (e.g. crashing, horrendous lag at times), it just doesn't seem logically to have an all or nothing mechanic, where you'll loose 100% of something potentially due to outside influences. The game/servers just are not stable enough to support such a system. Theoretically it may have sounded good to the developers, but in reality it's going to turn a lot of players off. And the last thing anyone of us want is the player population decreasing.

Sharee

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, with the problems the game has in PvP at the moment (e.g. crashing, horrendous lag at times), it just doesn't seem logically to have an all or nothing mechanic, where you'll loose 100% of something potentially due to outside influences. The game/servers just are not stable enough to support such a system. Theoretically it may have sounded good to the developers, but in reality it's going to turn a lot of players off. And the last thing anyone of us want is the player population decreasing.

Sure, lag suck, but it affect everyone equally - it is just as likely to cost you some stones as it is to award you some, so it's a wash.

Also, lag should be a much lesser problem after the same population cap that used to occupy just a single zone will now be spread over at least 8 separate zones (cyro, six IC districts, sewers).

Farorin

RustedValor wrote: »

There really is no community split on the TV stones. There is only a small vocal minority of players who post on the forums on every thread on this topic. Players will buy the expansion because content is content, and there hasn't been any in a while. If ZOS reduces IC to yet another mindless mob grind it will make the gear you get from these stones utterly worthless, easily obtained, and pointless.The entire game is a mindless mob grind, and even PVP has been reduced to a mindless zerg grind. Finally they are doing something interesting and controversial, and I really hope they don't ruin the system for a small minority of players who refuse to adapt, and stamp their feet because every piece of content in the game doesn't cater to their playstyle. A large part of the game population will enjoy this content, some never will enjoy any type of pvp. Being as this is likely the only PVP expansion this game will ever see, the devs should do whatever is necessary to foster the most fun PvP experience possible.

I agree, I will also add, that a reduced percent of loot will detract largely from the excitement, especially if after a long hard battle between two players or a group of players, only to be rewarded with a low percentage of stones will seem a bit of an anti-climax

The point of the stones is to encourage PVP, to encourage fighting. reduce that, and you reduce the reason to fight, thus dampening the original intention of a PVP area.

Rinmaethodain

TV stones should drop in dungeons aswell.

TV stones dropped in dungeons will drop at reduced rate and without multiplier.
Anyone who doesnt want to take a risk goes there.

TV stones dropping in PVP area will be dropping at higher rate but with risk of being killed and having all your stones stolen.

This is fair Risk and reward.

Not right now where PVE players are used as mules to farm TV stones, the risk is all on PVE side and then PVPers have fresh meat to kill getting rewards for nothing. This is not fair and not balanced.

Farorin

It would be like taking AP away, or reducing AP percentage gains from cyrodiil for killing players. Counter intuitive for an area that is designed for PVP.

Sharee

MaximusDargus wrote: »

TV stones should drop in dungeons aswell.

TV stones dropped in dungeons will drop at reduced rate and without multiplier.
Anyone who doesnt want to take a risk goes there.

TV stones dropping in PVP area will be dropping at higher rate but with risk of being killed and having all your stones stolen.

This is fair Risk and reward.

Not right now where PVE players are used as mules to farm TV stones, the risk is all on PVE side and then PVPers have fresh meat to kill getting rewards for nothing. This is not fair and not balanced.

You already have a safe way to get stones, through PvE dailies. Those rewards cannot be looted from you.

If you want more, you have to take a risk.

If PvE dungeons dropped stones, you could get more without any increased risk - just increased time grinding.

Tavore1138

RustedValor wrote: »

There really is no community split on the TV stones. There is only a small vocal minority of players who post on the forums on every thread on this topic. Players will buy the expansion because content is content, and there hasn't been any in a while. If ZOS reduces IC to yet another mindless mob grind it will make the gear you get from these stones utterly worthless, easily obtained, and pointless.The entire game is a mindless mob grind, and even PVP has been reduced to a mindless zerg grind. Finally they are doing something interesting and controversial, and I really hope they don't ruin the system for a small minority of players who refuse to adapt, and stamp their feet because every piece of content in the game doesn't cater to their playstyle. A large part of the game population will enjoy this content, some never will enjoy any type of pvp. Being as this is likely the only PVP expansion this game will ever see, the devs should do whatever is necessary to foster the most fun PvP experience possible.

I think you are mistaken on this.

First there seems to be a good number of people on this forum who are both for and against the idea - the definition of a split, your contention that it is the same names has some merit but that is true of both sides, you pop up repeatedly supporting the idea for example.

Secondly the boards here are a small selection of players, most players don't avidly follow the news of each release date and most certainly don't camp out on forums to discuss the minutiae like we do.

They are less focused on the game and are much more likely simply to have a couple of negative experiences in their 'fun time' and just quietly leave forever.

A possibly answer to scarcity of stones would be to make them like AP, only obtainable in decent numbers by playing PvP in IC - still would reward PvP, but would avoid basically creating a robbery simulator and encouraging everyone to be the worst they can be.

helediron

Sharee wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

TV stones should drop in dungeons aswell.

TV stones dropped in dungeons will drop at reduced rate and without multiplier.
Anyone who doesnt want to take a risk goes there.

TV stones dropping in PVP area will be dropping at higher rate but with risk of being killed and having all your stones stolen.

This is fair Risk and reward.

Not right now where PVE players are used as mules to farm TV stones, the risk is all on PVE side and then PVPers have fresh meat to kill getting rewards for nothing. This is not fair and not balanced.

You already have a safe way to get stones, through PvE dailies. Those rewards cannot be looted from you.

If you want more, you have to take a risk.

If PvE dungeons dropped stones, you could get more without any increased risk - just increased time grinding.

Dailies are usually bad choice. They give small amount and only once per day. E.g. I get 10% nirncrux from daily writs and 90% from farming. Whatever the solution is, there must be a way to get certain armors with TV stones. This is why i prefer 10% loot because then risk, reward and effort are balanced.

And i think this is not going to be at all about risk&reward. Cyrodiil is train play so IC is filled with trains. PvE players naturally group up to win the PvE fights, but lagtrains just wipe them. So in the end it would be just two stage farming until PvE players force ZOS to fix it.

PvE dungeons dropping stones is a good solution. Then it IS just grinding to collect them.

Sharee

helediron wrote: »

This is why i prefer 10% loot because then risk, reward and effort are balanced.

Running with 0 stones and getting 4 per kill, or running with 10000 stones and getting 16 per kill(risking to lose all). That is risk and reward balanced. You have to decide whether to play it safe, or risky.

If you only lose 10% of your stones to a player kill, everyone will always go for the 4x multiplier, because it will be a no-brainer. Why would you give up 75% of your stone income (by keeping the multiplier at 1x) just to prevent a 10% loss? The whole risk/reward thing just went up in smoke.

PvE dungeons dropping stones is a good solution. Then it IS just grinding to collect them.

Getting more stones is supposed to be tied to exposing yourself to more risk. Grinding is not risky. Therefore, grinding should definitely not be an option for getting more stones.

Tavore1138

Sharee wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

This is why i prefer 10% loot because then risk, reward and effort are balanced.

Running with 0 stones and getting 4 per kill, or running with 10000 stones and getting 16 per kill(risking to lose all). That is risk and reward balanced. You have to decide whether to play it safe, or risky.

If you only lose 10% of your stones to a player kill, everyone will always go for the 4x multiplier, because it will be a no-brainer. Why would you give up 75% of your stone income (by keeping the multiplier at 1x) just to prevent a 10% loss? The whole risk/reward thing just went up in smoke.

PvE dungeons dropping stones is a good solution. Then it IS just grinding to collect them.

Getting more stones is supposed to be tied to exposing yourself to more risk. Grinding is not risky. Therefore, grinding should definitely not be an option for getting more stones.

Agreed... but at the same time the stone mugger with no stones runs zero risk at all to begin with and could get several thousand which he simply then stealths off with and deposits at a loss of 50... he runs a lot less risk than the person actually doing the initial gathering who is vulnerable both to mobs and gankers looting them.

Which is why I proposed a mechanic that forces the ganker to actual share some of the risk by having to approach the body to loot it... clearly this is not appealing to the gankers because they want other people to feel anxious while they feel the rush of success, they do not want to risk them being the anxious ones because they have no... stones...

pmn100b16_ESO

Trouble with having anything less than a 100% looting system is it will actually encourage ganking because its all reward and practically no risk for the ganker. Someone has 1000 stones, gets ganked, ganker takes say 50% (500 stones) then stands there and dances because he knows as soon as another ganker blows him up, he's respawned at the bank with 250 stones. The ganker can afford to go 100% burst damage without giving a thought for any survivability or escape method. It might secure 500 stones for the guy with 1000 that got killed, but it would actually encourage ganking imo.

Anything less than 50%, why would you even bother trying to escape with your stones? Stand there, get killed, free teleport to bank where you deposit the 70-80-90% stones you're still holding onto. Rinse repeat all day.

Also remember there's a 50% damage reduction coming to pvp so burst builds aren't going to be as effective as they are now. I get a feeling all this worry is a bit premature to start making fixes for something we haven't even set foot inside of yet.

Tonnopesce

arena25 wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in and say great idea.

Thanks - although the single reply to this while my other thread rumbles on is a sad testament to how much more willing we all are to argue instead of trying to resolve something

Great idea...

Compromise works...because, after all, this is AMERICA!

O well sorry to correct you but the game is worldwide and Compromise here in Italy are just a way to deal with the local mafia...

Tavore1138

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Trouble with having anything less than a 100% looting system is it will actually encourage ganking because its all reward and practically no risk for the ganker. Someone has 1000 stones, gets ganked, ganker takes say 50% (500 stones) then stands there and dances because he knows as soon as another ganker blows him up, he's respawned at the bank with 250 stones. The ganker can afford to go 100% burst damage without giving a thought for any survivability or escape method. It might secure 500 stones for the guy with 1000 that got killed, but it would actually encourage ganking imo.

Anything less than 50%, why would you even bother trying to escape with your stones? Stand there, get killed, free teleport to bank where you deposit the 70-80-90% stones you're still holding onto. Rinse repeat all day.

Also remember there's a 50% damage reduction coming to pvp so burst builds aren't going to be as effective as they are now. I get a feeling all this worry is a bit premature to start making fixes for something we haven't even set foot inside of yet.

So... say the loss is 33% on death... give the dead player a choice. For 10% of their stones they can res at a random spot within 50m metres of where they died but in stealth and try and get safe from there... for 50% of what they have left they can res in the safe zone with a total loss of 66%...

And I still feel that the ganker needs to take some risk and have to loot the body not just have the stones pop into his inventory even if he is 50 metres away.

DschiPeunt

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Trouble with having anything less than a 100% looting system is it will actually encourage ganking because its all reward and practically no risk for the ganker. Someone has 1000 stones, gets ganked, ganker takes say 50% (500 stones) then stands there and dances because he knows as soon as another ganker blows him up, he's respawned at the bank with 250 stones. The ganker can afford to go 100% burst damage without giving a thought for any survivability or escape method. It might secure 500 stones for the guy with 1000 that got killed, but it would actually encourage ganking imo.

Anything less than 50%, why would you even bother trying to escape with your stones? Stand there, get killed, free teleport to bank where you deposit the 70-80-90% stones you're still holding onto. Rinse repeat all day.

Also remember there's a 50% damage reduction coming to pvp so burst builds aren't going to be as effective as they are now. I get a feeling all this worry is a bit premature to start making fixes for something we haven't even set foot inside of yet.

You forgot that there is only a 10% loss when you get killed by a mob. Kai Schober already said in the german forums that they expect people to get killed by mobs on purpose to return the rest of their TV stones to the bank. So that argument doesn't really work, because the system right now already supports a little loss for the safety of the rest.