What kind of MMO player are you?

jkemmery

BBSooner wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Granted this poll is incredibly small and means nothing, the lack of the consensus that the "game is too hard" across all proposed demographics is telling. If "too easy" and "too hard" are extremes on the scale, ZOS should strive to have the extremes balanced as opposed to leaning heavily towards one or the other. That would be a true balance.

Except for the fact that people are people and are rarely honest, even to themselves. Many more people want to feel "3L33TZ" and post "oh the game is too easy, yeah" than will admit, even to themselves, that the game poses a real and serious challenge for them. This is an effect knows as "self-serving bias" and is an actual thing that pollsters will take in to account in opinion polls such as this. If the poll had just as many "too easy" as "too hard" then the game would definitely be too easy to have mass appeal, which is what the developers are going for. They results of this poll show that it is probably balanced just about right.

Same could be said as players piling on a "too hard" classification. Clicking "it's too hard" when if they were honest with themselves about it being appropriately difficult for them would be pretty self-serving. ESO isn't in that situation though, since it's "self-serving" for them to say the difficulty is just right when if they were honest with themselves realize it's probably too easy.

The argument is cyclical, the lack of representation from one extreme with the abundance of another (given any adjustments you want to make for "lying humans") is the point of samples.

No, I'm sorry, you are mistaken. That would be the opposite of s self serving bias. It's a real thing, look it up. But you are entirely incorrect here.

It's completely in line with a self-serving bias. Like you said, players may want to feel "3L33TZ", and could just as easily think that of themselves and said that the game is fairly balanced (they were just so great that they accomplished everything) when in reality it's vastly too easy. I'm honestly curious how that would not be in line with a self-serving bias.

(that's the only reply I have for this, a blank, dumbfounded stare)

Seriously. I'm honestly asking how incorrectly voting based on a person's perceptions of themselves is exclusive to one extreme over the other.

@BBSooner
Because it's a self serving bias, meaning people, all people, will tend to want to make themselves feel better or look better in the eyes of others. All polls will fall on a normal curve, however, when you account for self serving bias polls like this will skew toward "too easy". Sure, some people will vote "just right" when the game is actually too hard, and I'm sure this poll reflects those individuals. If the game was truly not challenging, the poll would be skewed much more toward "too easy", due to self serving bias. Someone would not vote that the game is "too hard" when in actuality is is "just right", because that would be the opposite of self serving. A certain percentage of individuals will always vote "too easy" when the game is actually "just right" for them due to self serving bias.

When you take in to account self serving bias, this poll shows, pretty accurately, that the game is in fact relatively well balanced.

BBSooner

jkemmery wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Granted this poll is incredibly small and means nothing, the lack of the consensus that the "game is too hard" across all proposed demographics is telling. If "too easy" and "too hard" are extremes on the scale, ZOS should strive to have the extremes balanced as opposed to leaning heavily towards one or the other. That would be a true balance.

Except for the fact that people are people and are rarely honest, even to themselves. Many more people want to feel "3L33TZ" and post "oh the game is too easy, yeah" than will admit, even to themselves, that the game poses a real and serious challenge for them. This is an effect knows as "self-serving bias" and is an actual thing that pollsters will take in to account in opinion polls such as this. If the poll had just as many "too easy" as "too hard" then the game would definitely be too easy to have mass appeal, which is what the developers are going for. They results of this poll show that it is probably balanced just about right.

Same could be said as players piling on a "too hard" classification. Clicking "it's too hard" when if they were honest with themselves about it being appropriately difficult for them would be pretty self-serving. ESO isn't in that situation though, since it's "self-serving" for them to say the difficulty is just right when if they were honest with themselves realize it's probably too easy.

The argument is cyclical, the lack of representation from one extreme with the abundance of another (given any adjustments you want to make for "lying humans") is the point of samples.

No, I'm sorry, you are mistaken. That would be the opposite of s self serving bias. It's a real thing, look it up. But you are entirely incorrect here.

It's completely in line with a self-serving bias. Like you said, players may want to feel "3L33TZ", and could just as easily think that of themselves and said that the game is fairly balanced (they were just so great that they accomplished everything) when in reality it's vastly too easy. I'm honestly curious how that would not be in line with a self-serving bias.

(that's the only reply I have for this, a blank, dumbfounded stare)

Seriously. I'm honestly asking how incorrectly voting based on a person's perceptions of themselves is exclusive to one extreme over the other.

@BBSooner
Because it's a self serving bias, meaning people, all people, will tend to want to make themselves feel better or look better in the eyes of others.

Totally with you.

All polls will fall on a normal curve, however, when you account for self serving bias polls like this will skew toward "too easy". Sure, some people will vote "just right" when the game is actually too hard, and I'm sure this poll reflects those individuals.

I agree.

If the game was truly not challenging, the poll would be skewed much more toward "too easy", due to self serving bias.

This is where you lose me. At what point is a poller able to attribute a vote of 'too easy' as an actual opinion that it's too easy? As of now (in this poll that, again, is pretty meaningless, however ...) over 1/3 of the votes classify it as "too easy", with a single vote at "too hard". Surely, even accounting for the bias, the poll leans towards a balance between "too easy" and "just right", meaning the game can be safely made more difficult.

Someone would not vote that the game is "too hard" when in actuality is is "just right", because that would be the opposite of self serving.

Unless the person fears any buffs made to the game. The same person would also potentially vote "just right" though they may think it's generally "too easy" because that is a more believable vote than "too hard" in order to maintain the status quo.

A certain percentage of individuals will always vote "too easy" when the game is actually "just right" for them due to self serving bias.

I agree.

Psychobunni

Rook_Master wrote: »

I'd love to cross-reference these results with amount of CP.

139 CP atm (2x v14's, v7, 2x v1, and some lowbies)

I had just started running trials when 1.6 came and those people have poofed right after it dropped. Don't even run 4 mans because it's usually just me and the time my husband and I can actually be on together we have been fiddle farting around Cyrodiil as of late.

I'm not "min/max", no interest really in any of the 2 piece sets, and simply don't feel the rewards are even worth finding new ppl to group for vet content with.

Thus "about right" difficulty

grumlins

Difficulty is actually fun. It's not so easy that you can blast through everything solo, it's not so difficult that you absolutely have to do what they do in the more difficult games where you absolutely have to be part of a guild or forced into a lobby group waiting to enter yet another dungeon just to progress, or having to do a long drawn out questline with your group/guild just to get a key to even ENTER another raid. It's something I like about this game you can do what you want and not feel pressured to do what everyone else is doing to get to where you want to go.

Romo

Xendyn wrote: »

How about retired or disabled with too much time on my hands? lol
Lots of older gamers around here yanno...*shakes cane

Yep.

The original acerbic curmudgeon.

Rosveen

It's mostly too easy, but I think it's a little unfair to judge it when I know the game inside out and I'm not sure how strongly my previous experience influences my current impression. I also understand ESO was made for a more casual, solo player and I think it was quite successful in accomplishing this goal. Being a casual gamer myself, I don't have a lot of CPs under my belt, so certain group instances still are far from a total faceroll (especially with a less coordinated group). I voted "just right" in the end, but I would appreciate a bit higher difficulty - and NOT in the form of forced group content, please.

I'm a student without a full time job. That's for stalkers lurking in recent threads and collecting all our personal info.

ADarklore

Nice to see the majority- so far- consider the content 'about right'. The thing is, for those who consider the content too easy, you can always downgrade your armor or weapons to make it more challenging... but someone who finds the content too difficult does not have the same option to buff themselves. Thus, trying to find the middle ground is extremely difficult but it's nice to see that people feel the game at this point is 'about right'.

RobDaCool

I suppose I'm the same as everyone else, I mindlessly kill things for clothes.

Violynne

Oops. Picked the wrong option - meant career, no kids, game's just about right. Don't see a way to change my vote.

Moonscythe

Since I'm retired, widowed and have one adult son I counted that as single with no ties. I don't find the game all that easy and I hate to die but I'm not complaining…out loud anyway. On the other hand, I fight like a girl and wouldn't mind being able to do quests on the level stated in my journal.

Farorin

Have family, no career as I am a student. Game difficulty way to easy.

The only things that are kind of hard is trying to solo or duo craglorn, but I hate that place, and doing the trials which I have only attempted once due to the fact that I can never find enough people, even in my PVE guilds full of people, that are interested in doing trials when I am, due to time differences (I live in AUS).

So now that the game is stupid easy, I spend most my time in Cyrodiil, where I actually get a challenge, and get my arse kicked regularly.

A game isn't fun for me, unless I lose and die frequently, while knowing that I can still do things to improve. I don't want to play a mindless game where if I put in time I will win, I want to play a game that makes me think, or challenges me.

Steelshiv

Have a game. Career too difficult; Family about average.

elephunky

I have a partner, a career and a degree I am completing. I find it just about right, even though I suck.

Stalwart385

I have a career and for the most part find the game too easy.

The main reason is how much easier they have made the game over time. 1-50 had some challenging bosses at launch. VR was quite the endevor solo. Grouping in zones had real purpose, now it is more of an inconvience than anything. Also group dungeons were made alot easier more recently, they used to be a real challenge. Pledges led to a large outcry over difficulty.

vDSA and trial hard modes can still offer challenge to those new. At this stage the content is old and there are no suprises. The best way to find challenge now is taking on content under-leveled and under-manned.

Sausage

I played DK at console launch it was ridiculously easy, basically soloed all Dolmens, 85% Public Group Dungeons, including group challenges, 85% of World Bosses. It kind of destroyes the point of having group content when classes can solo them.

firstdecan

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

As a solo PvE player, my choice would be:

No career or family - game difficulty either too easy OR too hard.

The level 1-50 content and public VR1-VR10 delves is too easy.

The instanced dungeons (normal and veteran) and Craglorn delves range from "a little bit hard" to "freakin impossible". I've soloed all but two or three of the normal dungeons, but I've never been able to solo any of the Veteran mode dungeons. Trials are obviously impossible to complete solo by design.

TL;DR: If you stick to the stuff you're supposed to solo, the game is often too easy. If you attempt the group content, the game is often too hard.

THIS ^^

The solo content is a cakewalk (although I have been playing since beta). Soloing the group content is where the challenge is at.

I will admit, I have been levelling up another toon and the mindlessness of the 1-50 questing is *sometimes* enjoyable after work. It gets boring pretty quickly though. It's also been fun to do dungeons with newer players, the fact that they haven't figured out the game presents its own challenges (not a slight on them, just a fact). Other than that, trying to solo the group content (Dungeons, Craglorn) is a nice challenge. I haven't been in Cyrodiil in a while, that used to be fun although depending on the day \ campaign it be anywhere from super easy to flippin impossible. Plus the rewards never seemed good in Cyrodiil unless you were doing zerg v zerg.

KiriX

Solo PvE should be more difficult. It's too easy now...
Normal group dungeon should be more difficult too. Now you can done it with 3 player party, but it should be possible only in 4-players party.
Vet. dungeons, Arena and Trials is ok

Coatmagic

Married, no kids. PvE questing is too easy. This is supposed to me an MMO, I shouldn't be able to all this alone.

Indaghdha

Career, family....just a casual player here. I play when I can. As far as the difficulty of the game, I'd have to say it's a bit too easy leveling 1-50 right now. I started playing the PC version a couple of months after release. Back then, I needed help with World Bosses that were 3 -4 levels below me. Today, I can solo World Bosses that are 3 or 4 levels above me.

I can't comment on the vet ranks, as I have just been leveling alts to VR1 and then shelving them so far.

ADarklore

Coatmagic wrote: »

Married, no kids. PvE questing is too easy. This is supposed to me an MMO, I shouldn't be able to all this alone.

This is NOT an MMO of yesterday, this is an MMO of today. It was designed to allow players to either play solo OR group, because they knew the majority of players would be fans of the single-player Elder Scrolls series. They wanted a game which would be soloable in most content, but offer options of grouping along with PvP if players wanted. MMOs of yesterday meant 'group content', MMOs of today simply mean a massive amount of people playing the same game at the same time. If any MMO tried to cater only to group-content players, it wouldn't survive financially because of the minority of players who want this- today, the overwhelming majority of online game players are casual players with limited time and solo players looking for a game that offers long-term content.

In the past group-content MMOs survived because there were limited titles- so with fewer options, it was easy to bring a large amount of them together in one game. Today, with so many MMO titles and with all consoles having internet access, those that prefer group-content are spread out far and wide... while the majority aren't interested in forced group content.

I think most of those complaining about easy content are those who are either experienced gamers, and/or are the type who actually do research and learn to min/max themselves. However, the majority of players are simply those who wish to log in, pick whatever class and abilities they enjoy using, and be able to progress. Players shouldn't be forced to pick cookie-cutter loadouts in order to complete content... if we min/max ourselves, then yes, we are going to find the content too easy- which is how it should be.

GreySix

The majority of those who voted appear to believe the difficulty of the game content is about right.

FishBreath

Career, and the game is way too easy and simple for me. I'm an experienced old-school PC player though who likes hard games which require both skill and brain use. Why did I buy this easy game you ask? Roleplaying. English isn't my first language and roleplaying with other people improves my English skills and gives my brains enough work. I simply can't grind brainless cannonfodder AI mobs. It's so boring that my 120 IQ would surely start to drop.

elephunky

Coatmagic wrote: »

Married, no kids. PvE questing is too easy. This is supposed to me an MMO, I shouldn't be able to all this alone.

It's supposed to be a mix of MMO and solo.

elephunky

I must either be a huge n00b with my skill allocations or something because I don't find it easing in PvE for my NB and initially had issues with a DK. Templar and Sorcerer however...

Volkodav

Too many Psychologists in here for me!

Ysne58

I have a family. I'm disabled so no longer have a career. ESO is a nice distraction. It has gotten easier since 1.6. Some of the content is easy. Some is just right. Some is too hard. I play a Nighblade with funnel health and silver shards being my main attacks. I'm certainly no FOTM and never will be. I really don't fit in a straight DPS, Healer or Tank role. I tend to back up in all three.

Milktray

No Career, No Family .. games about right

i DO have 5 sisters tho

Merlin13KAGL

Career, family, and real life. "Casual "Pro" Gamer" (I dedicate time to this game and am good at what I do. I'll go Pro when I no longer have bills to pay...)

Regarding difficulty, it varies. Some things are cranked up way too high, others way to low. The "too high" ones are often as a side effect of lag, skills misfire, etc, or other factors out of the players' control.

The "just right" is few and far between.

If I had to lean towards one side or another, I'd have to go with "Too easy."

Granted, this assumes a fairly experienced player - someone who has worked through the game to level 30+, run some group content and taken the time to learn and experience their class. If you've taken the time to know how (and why) your character works, both solo and group, then it starts to fit after a while and you improve.

If you FOTM and throw skills on the bar because someone else posted it in youtube, you shouldn't expect to be proficient, and you likely never will be.

There are exceptional circumstances on both sides and a simple difficulty slider would remedy a lot of these. A +/- RNG for the drops, including quality and rarity, could be a direct side effect of this as well.

As it is, the content (once somewhat setup for it) is nowhere near as difficult as it once was, and things continue to get simplified (reduced XP cost, mechanics).

As it stands, and once you've seen it for a while, you'll realize there is little more than the weather that is dynamic in this game. AI is slow and predictable, portals and tethers keep things consistently in their place, etc.

The gear build limits limit diversity, as well, at least if you wish to be comparable to most out there. There should be methods to mix and match things so there were more than 12 or so 'functional' builds between 4 classes. Between this and skills set (vs something like Morrowind), they really missed the diversity mark.

With the introduction of 23 new sets, how many of those do you really think will make it into the mainstream builds?

There needs to be something for everyone. Not everything has to be for everyone, though. Right now they have things switched On or Off when there can be so much area in between.

It's the one things the casuals and the Pro's have in common.

GreySix

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

As it stands, and once you've seen it for a while, you'll realize there is little more than the weather that is dynamic in this game. AI is slow and predictable, portals and tethers keep things consistently in their place, etc.

Good point. In Skyrim, a baddie or guard would chase you to the ends of the world, which could be a danger early on in the game. In ESO, just jump in the water, and unless the baddies have something that can reach you (or reach and pull you back al la the guard), you're probably okay. Then go back, and the baddie is frolicking or doing whatever it was doing before, ignoring you.

Also don't care for "leveled" territory, though know it's a feature popularized by the mega-MMOs.

Merlin13KAGL

GreySix wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

As it stands, and once you've seen it for a while, you'll realize there is little more than the weather that is dynamic in this game. AI is slow and predictable, portals and tethers keep things consistently in their place, etc.

Good point. In Skyrim, a baddie or guard would chase you to the ends of the world, which could be a danger early on in the game. In ESO, just jump in the water, and unless the baddies have something that can reach you (or reach and pull you back al la the guard), you're probably okay. Then go back, and the baddie is frolicking or doing whatever it was doing before, ignoring you.

Also don't care for "leveled" territory, though know it's a feature popularized by the mega-MMOs.

Morrowind w/ Oblivion features.

You don't know what you're stepping into unless you've been there before, and it wasn't necessarily at a specific level.

I think the greatest first moments I had in Oblivion was exiting a delve that was a bit more than I could handle, waiting for the enemies to return to their home positions, only to watch seconds later as the enemy also opened the same door.

Water should mean free target practice for the bad guy (or a chance to drown your enemy). it also irritates me when NPC's are having a family reunion and you tag one while the other twelve that are mere feet away are completely oblivious to what's going on or that they just stepped over their fellow man's body.

Give the AI some 'I' Make it adjust to the situation, same as we do, based on intelligence, aggro, and level.

Again, there should be a difference between 'repeatable' and 'repetitious.'