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What is Zeni trying to fix with Home and Guest campaign changes?

  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    There was never a PvE only server in DAOC, they have added classic servers and some frontier adjustments for old school RvR. But thats it. Private shards don't count because its private ...

    Here is the thing with ESO and motivation ...

    1. Compare ESO scroll raid with DAOC Relic raid and you shake your head all day. (Effort , challenge factor, team spirit etc.)
    2. Emperor switches several times a day because it doesnt really requires tactics or strategies.

    Any type of objectives in ESO mean zerg because you can farm AP fast. This kind of motivation is as desgined and similar to GW 2 Karma trains including global alliance hopping. A killer for PvP with 3 factions because there is no identity or reason to fight for your realm/alliance. We could compare this again with outstanding DAOC PvP dungeon objectives like Darkness Falls and Shadow lab but this far off topic and I don't want DAOC 2 i just want AvA to be improved.

    If they want to add motivation for "endgame PvP" players, one possibility is to "buy" active and passive skills from your PvP ranks. A complete redesign because it has nothing todo with Champion System or Alliance skill lines.

    It doesn't matter if you have low rank or high rank people in the same zone like Cyrodiil because you cannot stop people from their individual improvement process of character development. Otherwise you would need to split people again and again dependent of their utility and skill. But these kind of restrictions are not necessary because RvR/AvA concepts have different objectives than Arena or Battleground instancing.

    The thing is that the System must differ between PvE and PvP including sub categories like AvA, Arena, Battlegrounds to avoid imbalance. (We already have this discussion with champion points in Cyrodiil). Personally i am fine if my alt is getting his butt kicked by a 2000 CP guy in Cyrodiil but it wouldn't be ok in a Arena. I think its clear what i mean , you need rules for certain instance types without blocking the PvP progression of individual players and keep them motivated with a leveling kind of system. One reason why endgame PvP and RR concept in DAOC was succesful and why many got addicted to PvP because the leveling process never ended in a very interesting way and the whole system with pvp dungeons etc. kept players motivated for a very long time.
    Edited by Bromburak on July 3, 2015 4:49PM
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bromburak wrote: »
    There was never a PvE only server in DAOC, they have added classic servers and some frontier adjustments for old school RvR. But thats it. Private shards don't count because its private ...

    Gaheris ... look it up. NF on that server didn't have PvP, the keeps were occupied by mobs who gave you coin that you could cash for RP.

    "The server is completely Player vs Environment (a.k.a. "PvE") with the exception of the dueling options."
    -- http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/rvr-server-types
    Edited by Docmandu on July 3, 2015 4:49PM
  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
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    That was 10 years after release ... However it has nothing todo with my previous post.
  • Observant
    Observant
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    They just need to take out a campaign on PC NA, boom headshot.
    Legacy X - v14 Templar
    Observant - v14 Nightblade
    'Chaos - v5 Dragonknight

    Sun's Death
    Mercs of Sovngarde
    Vehemence


    If only ZOS moderated their game like they did their forums...
  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The whole system is a head shot.
    Whats the AvA strategy behind it, I assume we will find out in an announcement for upcoming announcements ... :p
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bromburak wrote: »
    That was 10 years after release ...

    No.. that was 1 year after release.. created 12 december 2002, http://gaheris.net/p/timeline.html

  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Bromburak wrote: »
    That was 10 years after release ...

    No.. that was 1 year after release.. created 12 december 2002, http://gaheris.net/p/timeline.html

    The content it self but not the modified server with all the extras like disabled PvP you were talking about before.

    Why is this important for this thread? Don't get it.
  • ZOS_BrianWheeler
    We have talked about exposing more to population and queueing so you get a better idea how long a queue is. So far this isn't ready for prime time but we are aware of the pop graphs as is, with the lock, isn't enough information.
    Wheeler
    ESO PVP Lead:
    Cyrodiil, Campaigns, Keeps and Siege, Imperial City, Battlegrounds
    Staff Post
  • Attorneyatlawl
    Attorneyatlawl
    Community Ambassador
    Bromburak wrote: »
    There was never a PvE only server in DAOC, they have added classic servers and some frontier adjustments for old school RvR. But thats it. Private shards don't count because its private ...

    Here is the thing with ESO and motivation ...

    1. Compare ESO scroll raid with DAOC Relic raid and you shake your head all day. (Effort , challenge factor, team spirit etc.)
    2. Emperor switches several times a day because it doesnt really requires tactics or strategies.

    Any type of objectives in ESO mean zerg because you can farm AP fast. This kind of motivation is as desgined and similar to GW 2 Karma trains including global alliance hopping. A killer for PvP with 3 factions because there is no identity or reason to fight for your realm/alliance. We could compare this again with outstanding DAOC PvP dungeon objectives like Darkness Falls and Shadow lab but this far off topic and I don't want DAOC 2 i just want AvA to be improved.

    If they want to add motivation for "endgame PvP" players, one possibility is to "buy" active and passive skills from your PvP ranks. A complete redesign because it has nothing todo with Champion System or Alliance skill lines.

    It doesn't matter if you have low rank or high rank people in the same zone like Cyrodiil because you cannot stop people from their individual improvement process of character development. Otherwise you would need to split people again and again dependent of their utility and skill. But these kind of restrictions are not necessary because RvR/AvA concepts have different objectives than Arena or Battleground instancing.

    The thing is that the System must differ between PvE and PvP including sub categories like AvA, Arena, Battlegrounds to avoid imbalance. (We already have this discussion with champion points in Cyrodiil). Personally i am fine if my alt is getting his butt kicked by a 2000 CP guy in Cyrodiil but it wouldn't be ok in a Arena. I think its clear what i mean , you need rules for certain instance types without blocking the PvP progression of individual players and keep them motivated with a leveling kind of system. One reason why endgame PvP and RR concept in DAOC was succesful and why many got addicted to PvP because the leveling process never ended in a very interesting way and the whole system with pvp dungeons etc. kept players motivated for a very long time.

    I agree with this, wholly. And chasing that goal and the next one just added to the fun and gave you milestones to work towards earning. A small power creep really isn't as vitally important to have 100 percent "balanced" (quote-unquote) in a large scale open environment territory game as it is in an instanced 4 man arena like other games offer. Even then, skill, practice, and gear enter anyway and true game balance in and of itself is an ideal, not an obtainable reality. The few ways to make perfect balance in a game all result in pretty boring and static play. It is the variability and tactics that arise from jigsaw imbalance while having a strong argument as to it being balanced overall, that makes it fun to play. I still very much hope we see more meaning to the PVP ranks other than just currency.

    -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent. =P
    Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!

    -Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
    -Order of Mundus, Nightfighters, LoM, and Mostly Harmless founding member, "DPS: We Deliver."
    ________________
    -In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
  • Attorneyatlawl
    Attorneyatlawl
    Community Ambassador
    Bromburak wrote: »
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Bromburak wrote: »
    That was 10 years after release ...

    No.. that was 1 year after release.. created 12 december 2002, http://gaheris.net/p/timeline.html

    The content it self but not the modified server with all the extras like disabled PvP you were talking about before.

    Why is this important for this thread? Don't get it.

    The server for it was eventually closed some number of years after it was created due to its always-low popularity. It doesn't have anything really to do with this thread however as you said =).
    Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 3, 2015 11:52PM

    -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent. =P
    Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!

    -Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
    -Order of Mundus, Nightfighters, LoM, and Mostly Harmless founding member, "DPS: We Deliver."
    ________________
    -In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bromburak wrote: »
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Bromburak wrote: »
    That was 10 years after release ...

    No.. that was 1 year after release.. created 12 december 2002, http://gaheris.net/p/timeline.html

    The content it self but not the modified server with all the extras like disabled PvP you were talking about before.

    Why is this important for this thread? Don't get it.

    The server for it was eventually closed some number of years after it was created due to its always-low popularity. It doesn't have anything really to do with this thread however as you said =).

    Nothing to do with this thread except that people brought up DAoC / Realm Points and me stating how it probably would cause friction with PvE only players.

    But I hate miss information.. the server was made pretty early on and no it was not closed some years later, to this day it still exists! People even still play it and apparently still make video's about it...
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