Professional MMO Players driving game decisions?

asteldian

Yup, ZOS did the smart thing and looked for feedback from high end players. The one thing ZOS need little help with is the casual aspect of the game, they nailed it pretty well and additional casual friendly features are, in the grand scheme of things, easy things to add without destroying a game and ideas are easily shared across forums.
Where ZOS struggle is the end game aspect, and whether or not you agree, it is a very important part of an MMO. More importantly, it is here where things can really break and people with deep understanding of end game are a great pool of knowledge due to experience, understanding mechanics, they can help share things that work, don't work and give insight in the consequences of adding something that seems a good idea but could completely mess things up when you look at it with a more discerning eye.

Some people fear this kind of 'favortism' because they think by talking to the hardcore element the game will be ruined, they assume these people will direct the devs in one direction that no one else likes. It is a rather paranoid stance, the devs already have their vision for the game as a whole, and their weakness is their inexperience with the hardcore element so tapping into that knowledge is good and doesn't mean it is blindly followed.
Not to mention while us casual players like to assume these 'elitists' are all selfish and only care about what benefits them, in most cases that is not true and plenty of thought would have been given with the playerbase in mind.
As an easy example if there was any strong sway from the hardcore, do you really think we would still have this barren UI?

Junglejim82

Lulz pro mmo players. someone show me where I get paid. Can't confirm about zeni but in my previous mmo devs created Dec discussion threads were anyone could post but ofc the most well known players and guilds seemed to be listened to intently . There are pros and cons to this approach. Hell one guild had a dlc achievement named after them. Felt kinda left out tbh

Whendim_ESO

Ur'Quan, is there no end to your skills?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Im still scratching my head wondering what a "beta reader" is.

UrQuan

Whendim_ESO wrote: »

Ur'Quan, is there no end to your skills?

I just like cooking lol

Sausage

If players are too timid to come to the forums maybe we need anonymous in-game suggestion thing.

IrishGirlGamer

I have no idea what a "professional MMO player" is - or who stylizes themselves in that manner.

That said, in over a year of hanging out (albeit irregularly) on this forum, I've seen players identify themselves as "professionals" or refer to other players as "pros."

What the criteria is for earning that title, I don't know.

Acrolas

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

What is a beta reader anyways?

The kind of person who would remind ZOS that punctuation goes inside quotations, and that two independent clauses joined by a comma without a conjunction are awful sentences.

No, wait, that's an editor.

The beta reader basically tells you whether or not your work is ready to be seen by an editor. It's more about content and consistency than grammar and proper style.

Rosveen

nvm, ninja'd

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Acrolas wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

What is a beta reader anyways?

The kind of person who would remind ZOS that punctuation goes inside quotations, and that two independent clauses joined by a comma without a conjunction are awful sentences.

No, wait, that's an editor.

The beta reader basically tells you whether or not your work is ready to be seen by an editor. It's more about content and consistency than grammar and proper style.

Thats called a proofreader not a beta reader lol.

Shunravi

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Im still scratching my head wondering what a "beta reader" is.

An early model external drive?

UrQuan

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

I have no idea what a "professional MMO player" is - or who stylizes themselves in that manner.

That said, in over a year of hanging out (albeit irregularly) on this forum, I've seen players identify themselves as "professionals" or refer to other players as "pros."

What the criteria is for earning that title, I don't know.

I guarantee that the vast majority of people who refer to themselves as pro MMO players don't meet the criteria. The only criteria to being called a pro anything is that it's your main source of income.

IrishGirlGamer

UrQuan wrote: »

Whendim_ESO wrote: »

Ur'Quan, is there no end to your skills?

I just like cooking lol

That's the most attractive thing I've ever heard anyone say.

Furor

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Whendim_ESO wrote: »

Ur'Quan, is there no end to your skills?

I just like cooking lol

That's the most attractive thing I've ever heard anyone say.

In game wedding? I want to be invited.

Shunravi

UrQuan wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

I have no idea what a "professional MMO player" is - or who stylizes themselves in that manner.

That said, in over a year of hanging out (albeit irregularly) on this forum, I've seen players identify themselves as "professionals" or refer to other players as "pros."

What the criteria is for earning that title, I don't know.

I guarantee that the vast majority of people who refer to themselves as pro MMO players don't meet the criteria. The only criteria to being called a pro anything is that it's your main source of income.

Ive heard of sponsorship for top guilds before... But i dont think thats enough for an income....

timidobserver

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

I thought only LoL was allowed to be called "professional".

By professional, he may be referring to players that make money playing the game.

The Uninvited

UrQuan wrote: »

You've clearly never tried my brussel sprouts. You start off by cooking up some diced bacon in a cast iron skillet, add diced shallots and cook until translucent, add the brussel sprouts (cut into halves) and a serrano pepper (sliced in half and de-seeded) and saute on the stovetop until the brussel sprouts start to soften. Then you transfer the pan to the oven and broil until the sprouts are just starting to brown. Remove from the oven, remove the serrano pepper, squeeze lemon juice over it, sprinkle parmesan cheese, toss it all, and enjoy.

Note: this picture was taken before adding the parmesan.

Thanks a lot, now I'm hungry...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

I thought only LoL was allowed to be called "professional".

By professional, he may be referring to players that make money playing the game.

People make money playing this game? how stupid am I when I PAY to play it lol

Rook_Master

The Guild Summit was basically a PR campaign where the loudest internet personalities were invited to a secret cabal where they could be made to feel special for a few hours, and then go back to their followers and talk about it.

Essentially all of the information from these secret meetings comes from Atropos' notes which he released.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/

IrishGirlGamer

Rook_Master wrote: »

The Guild Summit was basically a PR campaign where the loudest internet personalities were invited to a secret cabal where they could be made to feel special for a few hours, and then go back to their followers and talk about it.

Essentially all of the information from these secret meetings comes from Atropos' notes which he released.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/

Thanks for posting this.

Gidorick

Aren't the guild leaders STILL meeting regularly with ZOS?

UrQuan

Shunravi wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

I have no idea what a "professional MMO player" is - or who stylizes themselves in that manner.

That said, in over a year of hanging out (albeit irregularly) on this forum, I've seen players identify themselves as "professionals" or refer to other players as "pros."

What the criteria is for earning that title, I don't know.

I guarantee that the vast majority of people who refer to themselves as pro MMO players don't meet the criteria. The only criteria to being called a pro anything is that it's your main source of income.

Ive heard of sponsorship for top guilds before... But i dont think thats enough for an income....

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some people who can legitimately call themselves pro MMO players thanks to such sponsorship, but the numbers have to be vanishingly small.

I mean, there was a thread a while back giving details on what one particular LoL player (I can't remember his name, but he was recognized as an absolute top player) managed to earn playing over the course of a number of years. The individual prizes he got sounded great, but when you averaged the total out to look at what his annual income was for those years, it really wasn't impressive. Adequate for sure (I think it would probably have put him in the upper middle class range for income), but not impressive. And this was an absolute top player who treated it as a full time job and was recognized as one of the best (if not the best) in the world.

Hmm, it occurs to me that I've now kind of derailed this thread in 2 different directions. I should stop posting... Sorry @IrishGirlGamer !

Acrolas

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Thats called a proofreader not a beta reader lol.

I really just want three evaluations out of a beta reader:

Continuity; no plot holes.
Consistent, believable characters.
Natural dialogue.


I wish I could have beta-read ESO. There's a considerable amount of unnatural dialogue in the game. You can tell that it was written without ever being spoken out loud prior to recording.

Rook_Master

I personally was tipped off about the Forward Camp change about a week before it happened.

My source said it was a friend of a friend type of thing where an employee let his Guild in on the secret to hoard them, and then word got out. It would not shock me one bit to discover this sort of thing was still going on.

nimander99

I can confirm that no one is listening to me...

Darklord_Tiberius

Furor wrote: »

I have personally been approached by a game developer and asked questions. I wonder if I'll get in trouble for admitting that.

I won't discuss what we talked about or who it was. Sorry.

Yea and I regularly talk to Santa Clause about who is naughty and nice.

Amarynth

Gidorick wrote: »

Aren't the guild leaders STILL meeting regularly with ZOS?

Yes. At least, I know for sure that one particular guild meets with them regularly. Not in person like the summit, though.

UrQuan

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Furor wrote: »

I have personally been approached by a game developer and asked questions. I wonder if I'll get in trouble for admitting that.

I won't discuss what we talked about or who it was. Sorry.

Yea and I regularly talk to Santa Clause about who is naughty and nice.

Me too, but it's really just to find all the girls in my area who are on the naughty list...

Darklord_Tiberius

JacksonCarter13 wrote: »

They talked to a few guilds in the beginning. They should be talking to top pvp and pver guilds from all alliances but no obviously zos at this point has there own agenda and we are all not included in on the plan mostly because they kept lying about content and other things and they know if they actually hold a guild summit it will be everyone asking what the heck they were thinking over the last 8 months....

Not just the top, they need a few of the top guilds; but also a wide variety of other players/guilds. This game is not run to appease those at the top. If that were the case, all the AP and Emperor exploiting that has gone on in Cyrodiil would have never been changed. They do not need to be catering to the elitist culture that has developed in this game, whether its PvE or PvP. Their only hope for surviving with ESO is to appease a broad range of players with ideas that everyone can mutually agree on.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Acrolas wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Thats called a proofreader not a beta reader lol.

I really just want three evaluations out of a beta reader:

Continuity; no plot holes.
Consistent, believable characters.
Natural dialogue.


I wish I could have beta-read ESO. There's a considerable amount of unnatural dialogue in the game. You can tell that it was written without ever being spoken out loud prior to recording.

Again you are looking for a proofreader tho. I have worked in publishing for quite some time I have never heard of anyone called a "beta reader". Do you pay them or expect them to work for free?