Are Night Blades the best balanced Class?

Inactive Account

I just throwing this out there for some ideas from other players, but I am finding that the Night Blade class seems to be the Prominent Class when it comes to choosing traits and skills.

It has taken me the longest time to "figure out" my Night Blade compared to all the other Classes.

It seems that the choices that need to be made between Stamina and Magicka builds are the most complex out of all the classes.

I have , on other character Classes gone hard on Magicka or Stamina, as a indisputable rule, but I am finding my Night Blade needs a good mix to be "Generally" effective.

Please share some opinions that you may have on this subject?

Funkopotamus

From what I have heard and seen.

NB are by far the most rewarding if played corrctly classes in the game.

As far as stats: Friends of mine said it took them till around 40ish? to really get things rolling, but they went stam.

Lynx7386

IMO dragon knights hold the medal for most well-rounded class. They were the first class created back during the initial phases of ESO's development, and they've had the most time put into working on the class. Balance-wise they may not be on par with the other classes (more or less powerful depending on who you ask), but they have the tools to tackle any situation. They have a self heal, an aoe root, a damage shield, aoe damage abilities (both magicka and stamina based), single target damage abilities (both magicka and stamina based), heavy utility through things like fiery chains, reflective scale, and talons, as well as three useful ultimates.

Nightblades, on the other hand, lack a powerful self heal, they lack an aoe root or proper aoe control ability, they dont have any defense against ranged attacks like reflective scales provides for dk's, and they dont have a damage shield. Dont get me wrong, I love my nightblade, it's my favorite class and has remained my main character since PC launch and through to PS4, but nightblades are lacking a lot of abilities types that would make them as well-rounded as the other classes. Sorcerors suffer some similar issues, especially for stamina builds. Templars are probably closest to dragonknights in terms of being a well rounded class, but still lack a few things like an aoe root.

Inactive Account

Lynx7386 wrote: »

IMO dragon knights hold the medal for most well-rounded class. They were the first class created back during the initial phases of ESO's development, and they've had the most time put into working on the class. Balance-wise they may not be on par with the other classes (more or less powerful depending on who you ask), but they have the tools to tackle any situation. They have a self heal, an aoe root, a damage shield, aoe damage abilities (both magicka and stamina based), single target damage abilities (both magicka and stamina based), heavy utility through things like fiery chains, reflective scale, and talons, as well as three useful ultimates.

Nightblades, on the other hand, lack a powerful self heal, they lack an aoe root or proper aoe control ability, they dont have any defense against ranged attacks like reflective scales provides for dk's, and they dont have a damage shield. Dont get me wrong, I love my nightblade, it's my favorite class and has remained my main character since PC launch and through to PS4, but nightblades are lacking a lot of abilities types that would make them as well-rounded as the other classes. Sorcerors suffer some similar issues, especially for stamina builds. Templars are probably closest to dragonknights in terms of being a well rounded class, but still lack a few things like an aoe root.

I agree with you on your post, but that is, I guess, what I am trying to say... " Night Blades Are that Class with the most difficult choices, regarding Skill trees, to be made, to be effective."

They have Stamina skills for weapons and Magicka Skills for the Class, but going fully one way or the other does not seem to be the best way to build. They need to be, for a lack of a better phrase, "Well Rounded".

F7sus4

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Nightblades, on the other hand, lack a powerful self heal, they lack an aoe root or proper aoe control ability, they dont have any defense against ranged attacks like reflective scales provides for dk's, and they dont have a damage shield. Dont get me wrong, I love my nightblade, it's my favorite class and has remained my main character since PC launch and through to PS4, but nightblades are lacking a lot of abilities types that would make them as well-rounded as the other classes.

Magicka Nightblades could see more love, actually. The best finger-breaking multi-damage-buffing Funnel builds do around as much as a slacking Sorc weaving Force Pulse/Crushing Shock with Liquid Lightning as a DoT. Unfortunately, only Sorcs had loud enough community to make ZOS notice things.

SkinnyDG

Considering most NB abilities can be morphed into using stamina instead of magika I would say a stamina only build is a very viable option. At level 42 I'm really starting to feel the power of the NB. Most of the fun is to be had in pvp though, IMO, because of the amazing stealth capabilities and the ability to burn one guy down and then disappear when his buddies find out.

Endurance

1. stack weapon damage on everything even accessories
2. spam stam skills
3. finish off with magicka skills
4. hide/crouch & repeat from step 2

Araxleon

F7sus4 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Nightblades, on the other hand, lack a powerful self heal, they lack an aoe root or proper aoe control ability, they dont have any defense against ranged attacks like reflective scales provides for dk's, and they dont have a damage shield. Dont get me wrong, I love my nightblade, it's my favorite class and has remained my main character since PC launch and through to PS4, but nightblades are lacking a lot of abilities types that would make them as well-rounded as the other classes.

Magicka Nightblades could see more love, actually. The best finger-breaking multi-damage-buffing Funnel builds do around as much as a slacking Sorc weaving Force Pulse/Crushing Shock with Liquid Lightning as a DoT. Unfortunately, only Sorcs had loud enough community to make ZOS notice things.

Magicka Melee

F7sus4

Araxleon wrote: »

Magicka Melee

Yeah, in PvP. Not in competitive PvE end-game content (vDSA, HM Trials), however, and that's the "only" problem.

Araxleon

F7sus4 wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Magicka Melee

Yeah, in PvP. Not in competitive PvE end-game content (vDSA, HM Trials), however, and that's the "only" problem.

damage wise its pretty good, its just in PVE instead of kill and dodging I feel like everything that hits at close range 1 shots

Inactive Account

F7sus4 wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Magicka Melee

Yeah, in PvP. Not in competitive PvE end-game content (vDSA, HM Trials), however, and that's the "only" problem.

This I would have to Agree with. PvP over PvE. In regards to their best performance.

Inactive Account

Endurance wrote: »

1. stack weapon damage on everything even accessories
2. spam stam skills
3. finish off with magicka skills
4. hide/crouch & repeat from step 2

Are you then just stacking weapon damage and not crit chance?

F7sus4

Araxleon wrote: »

damage wise its pretty good, its just in PVE instead of kill and dodging I feel like everything that hits at close range 1 shots

1-shoting trash mobs doesn't prove any class to be good.

Once you reach 20k+ DPS on your Magicka Nightblade during Mantikora fight in Sanctum Ophidia (or 16k+ on The Serpent) as easily as other classes do, we may understand this topic as redundant. On average, you're 4k+ DPS behind.

Alcast

In PvP: stupidly OP

In PvE: mehhh

Forestd16b14_ESO

No night blades are NOT balanced .... Nor are sorcerers, templars, or dragonknights. All classes are both over powered and under powered and we really need all 4 to be re-worked other wise more threads like this will pop up about "which is best class" and every one keep having a flame wars about which class is the most OP and bla bla bla.

Inactive Account

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

No night blades are NOT balanced .... Nor are sorcerers, templars, or dragonknights. All classes are both over powered and under powered and we really need all 4 to be re-worked other wise more threads like this will pop up about "which is best class" and every one keep having a flame wars about which class is the most OP and bla bla bla.

To be honest, the thread is not about what class is the best, It IS, in fact a question regarding if they are the most balanced class. ( and YOU are the only poster that is taking part in a "flame war" so far)

F7sus4 wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

damage wise its pretty good, its just in PVE instead of kill and dodging I feel like everything that hits at close range 1 shots

1-shoting trash mobs doesn't prove any class to be good.

Once you reach 20k+ DPS on your Magicka Nightblade during Mantikora fight in Sanctum Ophidia (or 16k+ on The Serpent) as easily as other classes do, we may understand this topic as redundant. On average, you're 4k+ DPS behind.

But what you are saying is part of my point. Night-Blades are not as straight forward as the other classes. They can have massive one shot capabilities for sure, but that does not help you when you are fighting a mob of four or more NPCs.
When you build a Night-Blade you really have to use some thought into were you want to put your traits. The common practice of " All or Nothing " into Stamina or Magicka does not seem to be useful, in a useful Night-Blade build.

Etaniel

Lynx7386 wrote: »

IMO dragon knights hold the medal for most well-rounded class. They were the first class created back during the initial phases of ESO's development, and they've had the most time put into working on the class. Balance-wise they may not be on par with the other classes (more or less powerful depending on who you ask), but they have the tools to tackle any situation. They have a self heal, an aoe root, a damage shield, aoe damage abilities (both magicka and stamina based), single target damage abilities (both magicka and stamina based), heavy utility through things like fiery chains, reflective scale, and talons, as well as three useful ultimates.

Nightblades, on the other hand, lack a powerful self heal, they lack an aoe root or proper aoe control ability, they dont have any defense against ranged attacks like reflective scales provides for dk's, and they dont have a damage shield. Dont get me wrong, I love my nightblade, it's my favorite class and has remained my main character since PC launch and through to PS4, but nightblades are lacking a lot of abilities types that would make them as well-rounded as the other classes. Sorcerors suffer some similar issues, especially for stamina builds. Templars are probably closest to dragonknights in terms of being a well rounded class, but still lack a few things like an aoe root.

First I'd like to say that if every class had skills for all the situations you mentionned, we'd be playing a 1 class game, not 4. Balance doesn't mean having equivalents in each class. You say dk has wings to coutner ranged play, and that nightblade has no such skil. Well, cloak is a counter to ranged attacks. Of course it's not a counter by definition, but it works to defend yourself against range, and even against more. And then you could say that dk has no skill to reposition himself.
I'm not saying one is stronger than the other, I'm saying your vision of balance is flawed.

Furor

Etaniel wrote: »

First I'd like to say that if every class had skills for all the situations you mentionned, we'd be playing a 1 class game, not 4. Balance doesn't mean having equivalents in each class. You say dk has wings to coutner ranged play, and that nightblade has no such skil. Well, cloak is a counter to ranged attacks. Of course it's not a counter by definition, but it works to defend yourself against range, and even against more. And then you could say that dk has no skill to reposition himself.
I'm not saying one is stronger than the other, I'm saying your vision of balance is flawed.

Teleport strike is a counter to ranged builds?

F7sus4

Alcast wrote: »

In PvP: stupidly OP
In PvE: mehhh

Yes, exactly.

F7sus4

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

When you build a Night-Blade you really have to use some thought into were you want to put your traits. The common practice of " All or Nothing " into Stamina or Magicka does not seem to be useful, in a useful Night-Blade build.

There's nothing fair on being forced to put absurdly far more effort than any other class and still be ~4k less DPS output on average.

Let's do an elementary PvE task like a static AoEs placement to provide competitive DPS output:

Magicka Sorcerers: Daedric Mines... Liquid Lightning... Thundering Presence... The last 2 alone have 50-66% power of Impulse spam-casting and all you need to do is to place the skills on the ground then just watch and wait until the mobs are melted to death. Oh wait, you can still spam-cast Impulse apart from having all the above at the same time.

Magicka Nightblades: Let's see... Twisting Path... Yeah, 500-750 DPS after "great" +33% buff in 1.6. Wow, really!



And don't forget to use Agony. Read the death recap - it's your first weapon of choice for AoE situations.
</sarcasm>

Inactive Account

F7sus4 wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

When you build a Night-Blade you really have to use some thought into were you want to put your traits. The common practice of " All or Nothing " into Stamina or Magicka does not seem to be useful, in a useful Night-Blade build.

There's nothing fair on being forced to put absurdly far more effort than any other class and still be ~4k less DPS output on average.

Let's do an elementary PvE task like a static AoEs placement to provide competitive DPS output:

Magicka Sorcerers: Daedric Mines... Liquid Lightning... Thundering Presence... The last 2 alone have 50-66% power of Impulse spam-casting and all you need to do is to place the skills on the ground then just watch and wait until the mobs are melted to death. Oh wait, you can still spam-cast Impulse apart from having all the above at the same time.

Magicka Nightblades: Let's see... Twisting Path... Yeah, 500-750 DPS after "great" +33% buff in 1.6. Wow, really!



And don't forget to use Agony. Read the death recap - it's your first weapon of choice for AoE situations.
</sarcasm>

This is all true. BUT, This IS what I am trying to put forth .... NightBlades do seem, to me, to be the best balanced class.

Are they under power'd compared to the other classes?

YES, yes they are ( in some aspects). Although if you look at how the class is "laid out" they are, again to me, seeming to be very well balanced. May be instead of upping their power to be " competitive ", the other classes should be looked at and more closely tailored along the same lines.

ADarklore

My Sorc prefers using Restraining Prison, Liquid Lightning, Elemental Ring spam on mobs... or the always popular, Force Pulse to Crystal Frag proc on single targets. Oh, and he does throw in Thundering Presence whenever anything gets close to him.

Aerius_Sygale

We would be better balanced if we had a no strings attached heal. Fortunately Vigor should be a lot more accessible soon, so that will be very nice, especially for players like me, whom is a Nightblade primarily, heh.

Skwor

Alcast wrote: »

In PvP: stupidly OP

In PvE: mehhh

This!

F7sus4

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Are they under power'd compared to the other classes?

YES, yes they are ( in some aspects). Although if you look at how the class is "laid out" they are, again to me, seeming to be very well balanced.

Underpowered = unbalanced.

Inactive Account

F7sus4 wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Are they under power'd compared to the other classes?

YES, yes they are ( in some aspects). Although if you look at how the class is "laid out" they are, again to me, seeming to be very well balanced.

Underpowered = unbalanced.

Being an over powered class does not in any way, make a class balanced.

OdinForge

Despite the FoTM plague that's wiped clean through the Nightblade community, and the perception it's given people about the class.

Nightblade actually has a lot of customization available to them, regardless of the path a player chooses to walk. The game-play can change vastly depending on the gear you pick and the weapons you choose, further more by the playstyle you like. I hear it from a lot from people, NB kills them most and they kill NB the most. The balance for NB seems to be that while they have the potential to get damage in, generally they are the "squishiest" class.

I'm currently having a lot of fun experimenting with various skill and gear choices. The problems people have with insta-killing is not specific to the NB class, not even to stamina based builds.

F7sus4

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Being an over powered class does not in any way, make a class balanced.

No one ever said that it should be overpowered, but on the same level as the others.

panemetcircenses

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

YES, yes they are ( in some aspects). Although if you look at how the class is "laid out" they are, again to me, seeming to be very well balanced. May be instead of upping their power to be " competitive ", the other classes should be looked at and more closely tailored along the same lines.

From the devs' standpoint, though... wouldn't it be easier to bring 1 of 4 classes up to match the other three rather then bringing 3 of 4 classes down to match the one? Of course, the increase in DPS capability would have to be something that didn't incidentally increase single-target spike, as Nightblades already have superior single-target spike potential.

Then again, I've never really been all that happy about a ES game that has static classes... it feels like they nerfed the vast versatility and customization of our old ES characters in order to buff the O part of things. Meh, that's just my own opinion; YMMV.

olsborg

Stamina nbs are ooverpowered to say the least, with 4k+ weapon dmg combining this with sneak attack and cloak with hit and run and permdodge its hard to miss this as a fact. The class skills they need that cost mana, ie Cloak, fear etc, dont scale of magicka or spelldmg, they are utility spells or cc spells that just need their required mana to cast to make them effective with their stamina/weapon dmg-build.

If you play this build/class correctly, you have much more potential for destruction then any other class.

Chelo

NBs are the best class for just 1 thing, killing...