Next major patch may not be until September

Isbilen

In the article 'Coming to ESOTU' on the homepage right now, they mention the video that was shown at E3 of the new content coming, but the short article mostly focuses on the Imperial City. If you read the article, I think you can agree with me that it's reasonable to assume that the next major patch will be the Imperial City update, however there's one thing that raises some concerns:

Be on the lookout here in July, when we'll begin our full pre-launch Imperial City coverage.

Now this quote might mean different things, but consider this: some details are shared, a trailer is released (now that this is a paid expansion pack), some screenshots etc in July. Sometime in August the update is released on the PTS, where it's in testing for around a month. We are now somewhere in September, and that is without considering other things that might cause delays.

Of course this might be wrong and it may hit the PTS sooner, but if this scenario ends up being correct, that's very concerning considering the state Cyrodiil is in right now and has been since update 6 (yes it was bad before, but it's at an historic low right now).

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag? The whole cluster that is pvp wont change simply because they put in a new map. Also Id be quite surprised to see it in September. I assumed they would wait until closer to the holiday season. November I would think.

Talcyndl

Soon (TM).

Isbilen

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Attorneyatlawl

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Isbilen

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

A physical alternative to Nirnhoned sounds nice, but what reason would there be for the other 7 traits? I would rather see Nirnhoned nerfed to balance stamina and magicka builds, then the base time-to-kill increased for everything.

Anyways, this isn't meant to be a Nirnhoned discussion, it's about whether or not waiting 6 months for important changes and fixes is acceptable or not.

Alomar

This Summer was a last chance for ZOS for a lot of us pvpers, even more have already given up on this game. Evident by the friends and guildmates we've all seen leave. We've been treated like second rate costumers for far too long to expect anything different ever again from ZOS. September is way past when this content and the fixes that should have already been implemented to be.

I'm sure lag will remain an issue as they've proven to be incapable of hosting the numbers and type of pvp they promise us in their marketing. We're over 6 months past when forward camps should of been re-implemented into the game, we've had no new content since launch, and we've been plagued by a host of rampant cheating (macro's, outpost exploiting, etc.) as well as bugs such as nirn that were aloud to go on for months. Absolutely unacceptable from any standpoint from which you respect yourself and expect a company taking your money to respect you as well.

This game is officialy, for many this was 6-9 months ago, nothing more than a temporary stop until a new RvR game get's released.

Legedric

So how is this anything new?

I know it's extremely disappointing but most of us knew we wont face any major updates before September/October already since they announced console release and content freeze for June!?

Anyone who expected ZOS to deliver things in July already doesn't know ZOS for very long, huh?

MisterBigglesworth

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

I agree with that goal, but the problem with that approach is you're limiting peoples' gearing options when it comes to PvP. It would be better to give everyone a flat damage reduction specifically to player damage, and have Nirnhoned/Reinforced be something like 5% per legendary piece. Adjust Harness Magicka or Nirn accordingly.

Tankqull

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag? The whole cluster that is pvp wont change simply because they put in a new map. Also Id be quite surprised to see it in September. I assumed they would wait until closer to the holiday season. November I would think.

no but alot of bug fixes and balance proposals are postponed for the next major update wich is most likely connected to the release of IC.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

well a % based reinforce increasement does not help really those with dire need of physical resistance increasements are magica user wich are wearing light armor wich does not provide "any" physical resistence 20-200% incresement to nothing is still nothing ( same can be said about that laughable CP option) what they would need to do is offering a trait providing flat amounts of resistence(with a worthwhile value to bring light armor back enpair with medium armor in terms of mitigation values).

Etaniel

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Soulac

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Rylana

I am so tired of speculation

Cinbri

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Well, it literally like saying that heavy armor needs only for passive that grants you 20% block cost. For now this is true coz with nirn spellresist higher numbers doesn't need and those increased numbers of phys resistnace from HA doesn't help much. Overall HA is not that good as ZOS promised.
P.S. Lets hope at least November for update.

Erondil

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Then imagine the damages of a magicka specc on a nirnohned blocking player... there are atm much more ways to reduce magicka damages than physical (harness, nirn, championt points...) do you think its fair? Why cant we compare physical and magical dmg in your opinion? Because the result would be "omg stamina dmg>> magicka dmg" while your opinion is "buff me nerf others"? :P

Maulkin

Cinbri wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Well, it literally like saying that heavy armor needs only for passive that grants you 20% block cost. For now this is true coz with nirn spellresist higher numbers doesn't need and those increased numbers of phys resistnace from HA doesn't help much. Overall HA is not that good as ZOS promised.
P.S. Lets hope at least November for update.

You say that, yet I see literally hundreds of heavy tank unkillable builds all over Cyrodiil. So I wonder what you have in mind when you say HA is not good enough. Are you suggesting you could tank in your light armor? Cause I'd like to see you try it.

I fully agree with Etaniel. TTK is either too low or too high. Fights between tanks or shield stackers etc are nearly endless, yet if you get caught by surprise 1 sec of burst is enough to kill you. There's little in between.

I just don't know how they can balance it since the removal of soft-caps. Yes top damage needs toning down. But so does overall sustain. Ward sustain, block sustain, dodge sustain... they all need looking at. If you just nerf damage people just won't die. Then group fights will take longer and will inevitably cause lag as people try to stack to create enough damage to kill the enemy group.

The only good thing that came with 1.6 was that stam builds became better. I would happily import some of those stamina buffs to 1.5 and call that a more balanced game than 1.6.

kevlarto_ESO

Brian Wheeler said in the last ESO live, in July they would be talking more about the next update, some maybe a bit sooner Sept.

Attorneyatlawl

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

I agree with that goal, but the problem with that approach is you're limiting peoples' gearing options when it comes to PvP. It would be better to give everyone a flat damage reduction specifically to player damage, and have Nirnhoned/Reinforced be something like 5% per legendary piece. Adjust Harness Magicka or Nirn accordingly.

Absolutely not. The feature of not making your gear worthless in a type of gameplay dependent on where you obtained it from, was a key draw and still is, for many to ESO. They could apply a global ability scaling, independent of gear or any player-changeable statistic, to tone down the Time to Kill speed, but that still wouldn't get at the actual balance issues underneath, which are what need to be fixed. This isn't a PVP/PVE issue where some things are balanced in one and insanely powerful in the other. This is an overall balance issue with the game including having physical damage types' weapon power ratings and armor penetration able to be brought far higher than the magical equivalents, while also having great mitigation available against the magical equivalents while not having ones for the physical damage.

Cinbri

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Well, it literally like saying that heavy armor needs only for passive that grants you 20% block cost. For now this is true coz with nirn spellresist higher numbers doesn't need and those increased numbers of phys resistnace from HA doesn't help much. Overall HA is not that good as ZOS promised.
P.S. Lets hope at least November for update.

You say that, yet I see literally hundreds of heavy tank unkillable builds all over Cyrodiil. So I wonder what you have in mind when you say HA is not good enough. Are you suggesting you could tank in your light armor? Cause I'd like to see you try it.

I fully agree with Etaniel. TTK is either too low or too high. Fights between tanks or shield stackers etc are nearly endless, yet if you get caught by surprise 1 sec of burst is enough to kill you. There's little in between.

I just don't know how they can balance it since the removal of soft-caps. Yes top damage needs toning down. But so does overall sustain. Ward sustain, block sustain, dodge sustain... they all need looking at. If you just nerf damage people just won't die. Then group fights will take longer and will inevitably cause lag as people try to stack to create enough damage to kill the enemy group.

The only good thing that came with 1.6 was that stam builds became better. I would happily import some of those stamina buffs to 1.5 and call that a more balanced game than 1.6.

So you have extrasensory perception that allows you to know what armor i using? You can wear light armor with nirn and reducing block jewelry and get bigger profit than wearing HA but personally I refusing to wear it coz i tired that my paladin forced to wear dresses and skirts since game released (just like I refusing to be just another vampire templar). Wanna see light armor tanks - check LA vampires DKs who still can hold big groups. Just don't lie that you never faced LA dk tank. And do you believe that passives like Constitution and nerfed (nerfed, not buffed)Jaggernaut are comparable to passives from other armors skill trees?

Maulkin

Cinbri wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Well, it literally like saying that heavy armor needs only for passive that grants you 20% block cost. For now this is true coz with nirn spellresist higher numbers doesn't need and those increased numbers of phys resistnace from HA doesn't help much. Overall HA is not that good as ZOS promised.
P.S. Lets hope at least November for update.

You say that, yet I see literally hundreds of heavy tank unkillable builds all over Cyrodiil. So I wonder what you have in mind when you say HA is not good enough. Are you suggesting you could tank in your light armor? Cause I'd like to see you try it.

I fully agree with Etaniel. TTK is either too low or too high. Fights between tanks or shield stackers etc are nearly endless, yet if you get caught by surprise 1 sec of burst is enough to kill you. There's little in between.

I just don't know how they can balance it since the removal of soft-caps. Yes top damage needs toning down. But so does overall sustain. Ward sustain, block sustain, dodge sustain... they all need looking at. If you just nerf damage people just won't die. Then group fights will take longer and will inevitably cause lag as people try to stack to create enough damage to kill the enemy group.

The only good thing that came with 1.6 was that stam builds became better. I would happily import some of those stamina buffs to 1.5 and call that a more balanced game than 1.6.

So you have extrasensory perception that allows you to know what armor i using?

Is sight an extrasensory perception? No. I see you around in heavy. I know what heavy looks like after 1 year. Simple

Cinbri wrote: »

You can wear light armor with nirn and reducing block jewelry and get bigger profit than wearing HA but personally I refusing to wear it coz i tired that my paladin forced to wear dresses and skirts since game released (just like I refusing to be just another vampire templar). Wanna see light armor tanks - check LA vampires DKs who still can hold big groups. Just don't lie that you never faced LA dk tank.

In 1.5, sure. In 1.6, no. Nirn does next to nothing to light armor. The effect is negligible. You cannot effectively tank with light in 1.6 and thank god for that. I haven't seen an LA DK tank yet, unless your definition of tank is hugely different to mine.

Cinbri wrote: »

And do you believe that passives like Constitution and nerfed (nerfed, not buffed)Jaggernaut are comparable to passives from other armors skill trees?

The benefits of an armor are more than its passives. Heaving 4 times the spell res and armor of light armor is of huge benefit when there are CS passives and armor traits for % increase of that value.

And I ask again. What is your problem with heavy? What more do you want for heavy?

Soris

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The benefits of an armor are more than its passives. Heaving 4 times the spell res and armor of light armor is of huge benefit when there are CS passives and armor traits for % increase of that value.

It's just that and block cost. The rest is gone. Constittution, Jaaggernaut, Immovable, Break free cost reduction all gone/nerfed or removed completely.
Medium provides as much armor/spell resist as heavy. Not the exact same but its like 3:4 where heavy gets 4:4 and it provides more additional passives like cost reductions, regen, roll dodge, weapon power etc. Plus you can get all those from CP as well.
So it's not heavy armor is god like. In fact, armor means nothing where you can stack armor penetration to the moon

Soulac

Erondil wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Then imagine the damages of a magicka specc on a nirnohned blocking player... there are atm much more ways to reduce magicka damages than physical (harness, nirn, championt points...) do you think its fair? Why cant we compare physical and magical dmg in your opinion? Because the result would be "omg stamina dmg>> magicka dmg" while your opinion is "buff me nerf others"? :P

Then use mark on that guy, ignoring most of his spell resistance. Easy as that.
If you want to make spell dmg and weapon dmg equal then I want equal defense. Give me viable dmg shields as Stamina Build. Dodge is strong, but you can't precast it and there are plenty of skills ignoring it. We don't have attacks ignoring shields tho.
You simply can't compare it. Stamina is able to get more dmg overall, but is a lot more squishy than any Magicka build. Ofc it's not fair, so make it fair - on both sides.

Taresgos

guys, few month more\few month less, who cares when we talk about so big numbers as 15-18 month without content

Soris

Soulac wrote: »

You simply can't compare it. Stamina is able to get more dmg overall, but is a lot more squishy then any Magicka build. Ofc it's not fair, so make it fair - on both sides.

This is natute of balance if you ask me.
Having more dmg means less defence and vice versa.
Though ESO is absolutely not a good example of this nature. Not yet.

Etaniel

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Of course I can block, I can also dodge roll and use invis pots but that's beside the point

Valnas

Grand warlord of the mailroom, @ZoSBrianWheeler is busy attending to the piles of consolo letters. Please use your pashunts and wait, he will be here to implement some changes sometime soon.

#VaguePromises
#ImperialCityPeopleStillBelieve

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Valnas wrote: »

Grand warlord of the mailroom, @ZoSBrianWheeler is busy attending to the piles of consolo letters. Please use your pashunts and wait, he will be here to implement some changes sometime soon.

#VaguePromises
#ImperialCityPeopleStillBelieve

The OP's quote sounds maybe yhey are going for a mid to late august release. Not nearly as long as september, but that is just my interpretation.

Valnas

I am just stating that we have received 0 content for 10 months, and current promised content and changes, has in fact been proposed and claimed to have been ready nearly a year ago.

Snit

When they said everything was hold hold until "after console release," I don't think many of us understood that as "three or four months after console release."

Erondil

Soulac wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I just wonder do you think because of IC all the sudden pvp will be balanced with no lag?.

The state of Cyrodiil is more than just the server performance issues. This also means that important balance issues such as the Nirnhoned nerf and an increased base time-to-kill isn't happening for a long time

Also, in the PVP Update, June 2015 thread, Wheeler said:

.... the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.

which means that those changes too might be months away.

Nerfing nirnhoned is the opposite way anyone wanting longer average TTK (time to kill) in Cyrodiil should be looking. If anything, we should perhaps lower Nirnhoned to 18-20% per legendary armor item, and then change reinforced to work the same way Nirn does but at a 22-24% rate at legendary (because Harness Magicka is easy to get, while there's no such thing as "Harness Stamina" for a long duration cheap-cast physical shield for all classes).

Yes and no. Atm ttk is either way too low or way too high. Some stacking nirn will be a pain to kill for more magicka dks and templars. My whips can go up to 10k crit on light armor vampires, but on a nirn stacking players, i get 2.5k CRITS.
Overall, if you nerf nirn, sorcerers and nightblades who already hit like trucks are going to become ridiculous, but dks and templars will be a bit more on par. Overall, if Nirn is nerfed, other nerfs have to go along with it. Overall dmg nerf is important. Currently physical dmg mitigation is crap, a full set of heavy armor still allows 12-14k snipes for example.

TL:DR Nirn nerfing isn't simple, it needs to go along with a major balance change

Well if you run heavy armor you could simply use block.
The dmg you deal against blocking targets is already ridiculous low, should it be even less?

In my opinion you can't simply compare Physical and Spell dmg, especially not on the mitigation part.

Then imagine the damages of a magicka specc on a nirnohned blocking player... there are atm much more ways to reduce magicka damages than physical (harness, nirn, championt points...) do you think its fair? Why cant we compare physical and magical dmg in your opinion? Because the result would be "omg stamina dmg>> magicka dmg" while your opinion is "buff me nerf others"? :P

Then use mark on that guy, ignoring most of his spell resistance. Easy as that.
If you want to make spell dmg and weapon dmg equal then I want equal defense. Give me viable dmg shields as Stamina Build. Dodge is strong, but you can't precast it and there are plenty of skills ignoring it. We don't have attacks ignoring shields tho.
You simply can't compare it. Stamina is able to get more dmg overall, but is a lot more squishy than any Magicka build. Ofc it's not fair, so make it fair - on both sides.

Stamina more squishy then magicka rofl, at least for a nb. Sure in 1v1 shields are enough, but in open PvP 90% of ppl 3-shot me nowaday when a stamina player can totally dodge their dmg, and if he doesnt, he has 30-40k speln resist and 15-20k armour. Long time you didnt played magicka NB and last time you played it ppl wasnt aware of the new meta because it was first days of 1.6. Very few had a clue of what they were doing and overall ppl wasnt running full dmh or full block builds.

RedTalon

Given they want to roll out certain changes before imperial city that makes sense, they are going to try their pvp fixes before that goes out so yes may be that month we get imperial city