More weapon diversity for mages.

NobleNerd

The game does offer diversity, especially compared to many other MMOs out there.

That being said.... I do see the OPs point about a more diversified magic based weapon choices. Stamina/melee weapon options way out number the valid magicka/spell damage choices.

On top of that the tooltips really need to be worked on for better clarity and detail. Many times it is not clear how damage is determined by use of a certain weapon or ability (this is for newer player. I think many of us veteran players understand most of it by now). A clear description of how Stamina and Magicka effect all aspects of combat would be nice also.

I have digressed though.... In the previously mentioned idea of more spell damage weapon options, scepters would be a nice addition and lore friendly. They could be one handed weapons that play off spell damage and magicka. This would give the Battle Mage type class builds an option to use a magicka based weapon with a shield.

UrQuan

PBpsy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I dislike the idea of making up "bound weapons" that work like melee weapons, but scale off magica...

"Making up" bound weapons that are based on Magicka?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Bound_Items
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bound_Weapon
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Bound_Weapon
Such magical bound weapons have been part of the lore and gameplay of TES games for a looooong time...

No one can heal like Templar though.
The healer role has the greatest disparity between classes.
For dps more or less all classes are on par slight difference but close enough except maybe for stamina sorcs.
For tanks mostly the same, DKs are the best ,Temps and NB are close behind Dk and Sorcs are a bit behind. They can all do the job.
There is however only one BOL. Think of the templar as the only class that can carry a not so good group trough end game PVE. When healing with other classes is more that your group is so damn good that even a sorc can heal them.

Um @PBpsy , did you quote the wrong post by accident? Because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about in the post that you quoted... In fact, I'm wondering if you posted this in the wrong thread entirely, because there's another active thread that comes to mind where your post above would be very pertinent.

Yes.I fixed it. Sorry, must be the skooma.

lol no worries

newtinmpls

Apparently I'm still sleep deprived because it only now occurred to me that one of my characters is a sorc/tank and his weapons of choice are 2handed, sword & shield, and dual wield.

HalfTooth

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Emma_Overload

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

All that stuff just makes MMOs a pain-in-the-butt, especially when it comes to grouping. Get rid of the unnecessary "trinity", and grouping will become a lot easier and fun. People get so stressed out over tanking and healing related issues, when the vast majority of players just want to get in a dungeon quick and kill some monsters.

lsneakl

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

Snit

To do this, every class would need a good, spammable and magicka-based single target spell and a similar one for AoE. Most, including sorcs, currently have neither. Giving everyone reasonable subsitutes for Force Shock and Impulse would be quite a radical change.

You can set up one of your two bars with a weapon. My sorc uses dual swords of Torug's Pact on his back bar, which includes things like Proximity Detonation, Mage's Fury and similar spells that don't require a staff. The extra spell damage is a nice boost.

lsneakl

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

All that stuff just makes MMOs a pain-in-the-butt, especially when it comes to grouping. Get rid of the unnecessary "trinity", and grouping will become a lot easier and fun. People get so stressed out over tanking and healing related issues, when the vast majority of players just want to get in a dungeon quick and kill some monsters.

That's fine if you can survive the point of the roles is so everyone does survive against hard opponents. If you have 3 DPS but keep ending up dead, guess what you need a healer as apart of that group.

PBpsy

lsneakl wrote: »

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

I think you have very limited knowledge about what mages ,sorcerers,wizards,warlocks can be and do in video games ,movies , fantasy books and especially the TES series if you only think they only shoot fireballs out of their freaking staves.

lsneakl

PBpsy wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

I think you have very limited knowledge about what mages ,sorcerers,wizards,warlocks can be and do in video games ,movies , fantasy books and especially the TES series if you only think they only shoot fireballs out of their freaking staves.

Okay enlighten me then? Where do we find the Mage who cut down all the enemies with his sword instead of using his magical powers?

Where do we see highly trained opponents in hand to hand combat with swords fall to a Mage wielding a sword?

Also last time I checked you could use a sword as a sorcerer in this game if you want but the trade off is you won't have the magic skills that you might be used to.

So please show me where in the world this Mage that was all powerful and had mastered the art of magic was all of a sudden the greatest sword wielding warrior as well?

lsneakl

Again just to be clear what I am calling out is the fact that someone who specalizes in magic would all of a sudden be a great warrior with a sword. This isn't that a sorcerer can't pick up a sword but if they want to cast magic with the best of them and then turn around and fight hand to hand with the best of them something is screwed up.

Shunravi

lsneakl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

I think you have very limited knowledge about what mages ,sorcerers,wizards,warlocks can be and do in video games ,movies , fantasy books and especially the TES series if you only think they only shoot fireballs out of their freaking staves.

Okay enlighten me then? Where do we find the Mage who cut down all the enemies with his sword instead of using his magical powers?

Where do we see highly trained opponents in hand to hand combat with swords fall to a Mage wielding a sword?

Also last time I checked you could use a sword as a sorcerer in this game if you want but the trade off is you won't have the magic skills that you might be used to.

So please show me where in the world this Mage that was all powerful and had mastered the art of magic was all of a sudden the greatest sword wielding warrior as well?

Lets start simple.

newtinmpls

lsneakl wrote: »

If you have 3 DPS but keep ending up dead, guess what you need a healer as apart of that group.

Sometimes it means you need a tank.

PBpsy

lsneakl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

I think you have very limited knowledge about what mages ,sorcerers,wizards,warlocks can be and do in video games ,movies , fantasy books and especially the TES series if you only think they only shoot fireballs out of their freaking staves.

Okay enlighten me then? Where do we find the Mage who cut down all the enemies with his sword instead of using his magical powers?

Where do we see highly trained opponents in hand to hand combat with swords fall to a Mage wielding a sword?

Also last time I checked you could use a sword as a sorcerer in this game if you want but the trade off is you won't have the magic skills that you might be used to.

So please show me where in the world this Mage that was all powerful and had mastered the art of magic was all of a sudden the greatest sword wielding warrior as well?

1.the biggest bada** ever.

2.used plenty of magic tricks

3. Pretty annoying crappy character from a pretty annoying crappy series but still

4.Yes. It still counts because.


Nope magic using dude with swords never happens anywhere. Totally new concept.

Castile

lsneakl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

I think you have very limited knowledge about what mages ,sorcerers,wizards,warlocks can be and do in video games ,movies , fantasy books and especially the TES series if you only think they only shoot fireballs out of their freaking staves.

Okay enlighten me then? Where do we find the Mage who cut down all the enemies with his sword instead of using his magical powers?

Where do we see highly trained opponents in hand to hand combat with swords fall to a Mage wielding a sword?

Also last time I checked you could use a sword as a sorcerer in this game if you want but the trade off is you won't have the magic skills that you might be used to.

So please show me where in the world this Mage that was all powerful and had mastered the art of magic was all of a sudden the greatest sword wielding warrior as well?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Battlemage

Seriously did you even play an elder scrolls game? I didn't even bother looking for more examples, you should be able to find this on your own

Stalwart385

Just finished vDSA with a stamina healing templar that was using vigor with dual wield and 2H. My mana dps buddy always uses a greatsword. He's only using class skills, but still weaves with it. I've tanked it with sword and board with a fire staff on my back bar. All kinds of crazy stuff is possible in this game.

True if no one knows you and you show up with a weird build they may not be to happy. But when your with your friends, you can try it out and play around with the advantages/disadvantages.

CriD

Has this thread gone off topic? Because a whole other page popped up and I'm still lost. Please, someone explain how anything in this game needs more diversity.

As pointed out, plenty of "mages" run your non typical builds, sword n board, 2 h. I even read in multiple places that a dual weilding sorc is OP.

How do mages need more diversity? If tour a sorc, you can summon people to fight for you.

It seems the OP wants to be a "mage" and do as much damage with a sword as a stamina specced melee fighter? What do you think this is....Skyrim? Explain why you cannot just make an alt. Why your one character needs to be the absolute freaking best at every aspect of the game. If everyone was equal the only difference would be class skills. That seems boring. Everyone would find the best weapon type and use it no matter there specialization.

I swear, this mmo has the most diversity I have seen as far as class builds go,yet some people are not happy with it?

I tell you what OP. Go make this game where a mage uses a sword just as good as a melee tank. Please, I would like to see PvP on it. One class to rule them all?!?! Mages in my own opinion (I'm a mage) are op. Fight from a distance if need, stun or entrap any melee fighters running at me, wipe them all out without losing hp.... Yes lets make them stronger.

Fdwizard

I like the idea of bound weapons, I used them in previous ES games, but, I think I'd rather see something like, a Scepter (think this was mentioned already) but to add to it, would be neat to have an orb of some kind for it's off hand, so Scepter+Orb (or a tome) weapon set would be fantastic. I've got a few mage types, 2 use staffs, while the other uses 2 handed axe/dual axes wearing medium armor to sneak up on stuff, it's fun. There's even an armor set (atleast I think that's what it was) that increases spell damage while sneaking.

UrQuan

lsneakl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

I think you have very limited knowledge about what mages ,sorcerers,wizards,warlocks can be and do in video games ,movies , fantasy books and especially the TES series if you only think they only shoot fireballs out of their freaking staves.

Okay enlighten me then? Where do we find the Mage who cut down all the enemies with his sword instead of using his magical powers?

Where do we see highly trained opponents in hand to hand combat with swords fall to a Mage wielding a sword?

Also last time I checked you could use a sword as a sorcerer in this game if you want but the trade off is you won't have the magic skills that you might be used to.

So please show me where in the world this Mage that was all powerful and had mastered the art of magic was all of a sudden the greatest sword wielding warrior as well?

So I take it you've never heard of the absolute most iconic wizard in all fantasy literature? The one that almost every wizard character written since 1937 owes a debt of inspiration to?

CriD

Didn't Gandolf die and have to be brought back to life? In the movie, didn't he fall off the bridge because he had a sword in his hand and a staff in the other? I feel if he just lost the sword, he could have got a firm grip on the rocks.

Lol jk, but seriously, he doesn't use his sword as effective as say, the people that have them out whenever there is combat.

Jedis are not mages. That's why they are called Jedi Knights not Jedi Mages. And a knight is a melee based fighter.

You guys realize that a mage is a magic user, at his most powerful using magic. Battle mages are very possibly. Stop being thick and just equip a sword and everything you have been whining about is right there at the tip of your fingers. Your a magic user with a sword. Awesome. Now go try to kill people with it. Understand, if you don't dodge, or block (blocking isn't that effective as your a mage, but hey, make a thread about it) you'll understand a melee fighter needs stats for health, and stamina. Even if they added bound weapons....its still a freaking melee weapon and unless you pick it up with your mind you will still have to use stamina to be effective with it.

lsneakl

UrQuan wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

lsneakl wrote: »

HalfTooth wrote: »

I also just wanted to clarify that when I say mages I am not referring to any specific class in ESO since you can play any of the classes as a mage and any as a tank and any as a healer. When I say mages I am referring to someone who has their attributes set to favour magicka. So this can be any class using whatever weapon.

Why? You chose magic get over it or respec to stamina as that is what you need to wield a physical weapon.

There is plent enough staffs in the game but sure add more if you want them. That being said if you want to run around with a sword it does take effort which requires stamina.

So you love mages but you don't like using what 100% of people, movies, and books agree is really the only physical weapon that a Mage would use?

Sounds like you want to be a Templar /thread

I think you have very limited knowledge about what mages ,sorcerers,wizards,warlocks can be and do in video games ,movies , fantasy books and especially the TES series if you only think they only shoot fireballs out of their freaking staves.

Okay enlighten me then? Where do we find the Mage who cut down all the enemies with his sword instead of using his magical powers?

Where do we see highly trained opponents in hand to hand combat with swords fall to a Mage wielding a sword?

Also last time I checked you could use a sword as a sorcerer in this game if you want but the trade off is you won't have the magic skills that you might be used to.

So please show me where in the world this Mage that was all powerful and had mastered the art of magic was all of a sudden the greatest sword wielding warrior as well?

So I take it you've never heard of the absolute most iconic wizard in all fantasy literature? The one that almost every wizard character written since 1937 owes a debt of inspiration to?

Now I could be wrong and I can't respond to the person who put up a few different pictures but Gandolf was different for the following reasons.
1- he was not originally mortal
2- he was not allowed to use magic in middle earth (if you give up all magika you could fight good too)
3- he used a 1 of a kind sword (which doesn't exist in ESO)
4- he used his physical ability developed through practicing with said sword

Also can someone name the first three picture from above? I am built more around pop culture fantasy for the most part.

MaximumAttackG

What?.. you do realize this game has more class freedom then practically any mmo.. you cant expect to be a badass mage and a bad ass swordsmen, it just wouldnt make sense for choosing a role.. theres alot of wiggle room to make your character unique. obviously if you knew how mmos usually function youd be more appreciative. go back to skyrim if you want to be a master of everything.

Cry_Wolfe

just wanted to chime in over this idea that bound weapons should not scale off of mana.

if bound weapons didnt scale off of mana then only stam stackers would benefit from them?


As an argument towards bound items scaling off of mana:
Every warrior must learn to control their mind to be effective, even berserkers used their rage to displace fear. A bound weapon need have no weight, its momentum could be a function of will power, its damage a measure of the mental faculty of its creator. Tactically a bound weapon user must be able to react to their opponent, but that is the realm of dexterity, a stat sadly missing from this version of TES.

In fact, really, the whole combat system is what is being struggled against here. Right click block, l-click+r-click bash, were design decisions for the combat in ESO, were previously l-click and r-click were tied to each hand and had item specific capabilities, combining both was a block(iirc, its been awhile :P).
Perhaps the greatest improvement to combat might be allowing modifier keys, increasing the potential actions of each mouse button and allowing greater diversity in combat. Unfortunately the usual modifier keys are taken in ESO, so once again we hit the wall on the original decision to depart from the standard TES combat set up.

PBpsy

lsneakl wrote: »

Also can someone name the first three picture from above? I am built more around pop culture fantasy for the most part.

Elric.(Although I sometime think a lots sword sorcerer type charcters recently are inspired in some direct or indirect way by him)
Drizzt
Rand al'Thor

The swordman /mage /sorcerer is pretty established fantasy trope although the type and strength of magic usually differs.More recent fantasy is riddled with the type.

PS also the SW pics were because in the end SW is really only what happens when one guy asks: "So how about Sword and Sorcery In SPACE???".
Mind Blown!

mdhammond

Sorry if it just seems silly and lore breaking to me to have great swords that scale off magic. So your characters life time of studying books and the arcane arts have somehow made him able to swing large melee weapons harder? Nah I'll pass

Fruitmass

@PBpsy

Hey now, Drizzt's a ranger not a mage, that's stretching it. He might use a few magic trinkets but that doesn't qualify him as the caster type

PBpsy

Fruitmass wrote: »

@PBpsy

Hey now, Drizzt doesn't count. He's a ranger not a mage, that's stretching it

Yeah but he used plenty of magic sometimes with his magic darkness goo and illusions of stuff magic of drow . It is been a while since I read that stuff though so of course I am stretching it.

Septimus_Magna

Bound weapons have been around in the Elder Scrolls universe so they could be introduced when spell crafting comes.
Or they could be added to the Mages Guild skill line before that.

This would open up more diverse builds because all current magicka weapons are ranged. This should mean that the weapon damage of bound weapons scales off magicka, spell damage and spell crit. Stamina builds can use a bow for ranged attacks and 2H, DW or S&B for melee range. It would open up a lot of possibilities if magicka builds would have the same options.

Sausage

Community have suggested is alot that they add more weapon skill trees, maybe in the future.

eliisra

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

All that stuff just makes MMOs a pain-in-the-butt, especially when it comes to grouping. Get rid of the unnecessary "trinity", and grouping will become a lot easier and fun. People get so stressed out over tanking and healing related issues, when the vast majority of players just want to get in a dungeon quick and kill some monsters.

It's not so much trinity in this game. It's more of a dps race. There are no designated healers or tanks required for 99% of the content. Instead you make a group with 4 dps, one in the group needs to have 1-2 heals slotted and another needs to be less squishy and aggro occasional hard hitter and boss. But everyone is really required to dps.

Stack on crown + burn down enemy as quick as possible. That's ESO in a nutshell in both PvE and PvP.

Feeling inferior about your build, gear and dps, that's what stresses out players the most, in my opinion. Not so much the "LF1M heal", spamming zone chat. That stuff just tedious.