More weapon diversity for mages.

HalfTooth

Dear Bethesda/ Wonderful makers of the Elder Scrolls.

I have been playing this game since Beta, aside from taking a break last year and I still get more enjoyment out of this game than I could possibly say. However there is one small problem that is nagging and nagging at me and I wanted to explain the problem to you and a well thought out solution.

The problem:
I love playing mage character, they are my first choice whenever there’s an option. I have loved turning all the classes available on ESO into mages, my fire mage dragonknight being my absolute favourite. Naturally my preferred weapon is a staff since this has access to all the magic spell attacks. But sometimes I like to mix things up a bit, I like to play my dragonknight switching between staff and daggers, or sometimes staff and greatsword. However when I got to ranked level and started properly paying attention to damage outputs and how skills damage is calculated I because disappointed that my characters which are specced as mages (25 magicka, 12 health, 12 stamina) just do not do enough damage with all the non staff weapons. Since destruction and restoration staves are the only weapons that scale of magic, and not all my characters are healers I feel somewhat locked to one weapon. Sure when roaming around on my own I can use the other weapons for fun but whenever I need to actually get anywhere i.e. bosses, dungeons, public dungeons etc.. I need to use the staff simply for the damage output.
To summarise: For mages the staff is only weapon they can use effectively.


The Solution:
I thought a lot about a solution to this problem, initially I thought why can’t the other weapons scale off magicka or stamina... whichever is higher..., but I didn’t like this idea, it is a simple solution but it causes too many problems. I then thought of how typically all Elder Scrolls games have bound weapons in them. Would it be possible to get the bound weapons into the game with each weapon basically fulfilling the same role as their real counterparts but using magicka to calculate damage instead of stamina?
At first I thought maybe they’d be toggle on and off spells that sit in your skill bar, since bound weapons are spells. But I then realised there would be additional problems of mages being a step behind non mages due to the loss of one skill slot. So I then thought, what if the bound weapons where essentially scrolls as items. For example you would find a scroll of bound great sword, the icon would be a scroll, but it would have the same function as a regular great sword. You equip it by putting it in the first hand weapon box, and can add enchantments and charges just the same. The only difference would be that when you have your weapon sheathed it would visually disappear, when you get out your weapon it is the same animation but the weapon materialises in your hands. It would work exactly the same for bound daggers, bound mace and shield, bound bow.
To summarise: Add bound weapon equivalents that calculate damage based on magicka rather than stamina.


Additional Thoughts:
To keep things simple the only difference with the bound weapons could be the visuals and the way damage is calculated, meaning that all the skill lines already in game would apply to both physical and bound weapons. However, being creative and preferring mages, maybe there would be an additional skill line for each bound weapon type. So a bound Bow would have a different skill line from the regular bow skill line. Possibly with things like Bound arrows being morphed into arrows of light (fitting with the templar) or volcanic spikes (fitting with dragonknight)
I also thought about how such weapons might be crafted if they were essentially a scroll. Keeping it magey, I thought maybe you would need to collect scaled herbs to create levelled inks, e.g. basic black ink for level 1-15 weapons, ink of aetherius for rank 1-3 weapons. It would be most fitting to add this to alchemy, since you would mix the herbs with levelled water to create the ink, and maybe you buy scrolls from mystic stores (the same people who sell soul gems) or find blank scrolls lying around. Possibly you also mix in the racial item (flint, bone, moonstone etc..) to essentially make a bound version of the already existing weapon.
I know that typically the bound weapons are always bluey purple, but it would be really awesome if there was some control over the colour to fit with your character, for example the templar might prefer white/silver weapons to maintain the warrior of light aesthetic, a sorcerer might look best with the bluey purple weapons, a dragonkight might prefer lava-ry red weapons.

Summary: Please consider adding bound weapon counterparts to the game that use magicka to calculate damage instead of stamina to allow mage specced characters to have more weapon diversity.

As an aspiring game designer myself I really considered the problem, found a solution and thought about how to seamlessly implement it into the game in a lore friendly way.

Elder scrolls is awesome!

VincentBlanquin

agree, this game should use a lot more diversity. my main is stamina dragonknight and i really dont like that sword and board or bow setups are very weak with this specs, probably on the way retire this toon

Metal10957

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

CriD

I'm so lost....this game...more diversity???? What? Ill be happy to give info if I can, but this game breeds diversity. Lemme explain.

My sorcerer, who is an altmer (yeh that's about all that's usual) weilds a two handed sword. Oh wait, btw, he's all migicka. No stamina. And a bow. Please explain how that is like your usual mmo. Guess what else, it works.

Is it as powerful as a regular sorc with destruction staff? Nope. Is it as good as a stamina build character that isn't based around magic? Nope. Do I still wreck mobs in PvE all on my lonsome without a restoration staff? Yupp.

This game is full of hybrids. For example. Being a sorc I can use their skill lines wven with say, a two handed sword. But why would I? Well early in the game as a rookie sorc I continuously ran out of magicka. It was bad. I had no idea what I was doing. So I switched to old faithful the sword. Problem was I specced for magic, so my damage output was not the best, nor was my health. So I adapted. I learned. Later I will be your run of the mill sorcerer with staffs, but for now?

I nuke the mob with Crystal fragment. Then I use encase and stop them in their tracks. Maybe use the AoE lightning move that sticks around for 5 seconds or so, maybe not. But by that time I charge in like a mad person and chop what's left up. I do this because, I let my magicka build up as I use the stamina attacks. No the damage isn't the best, but it beats standing doing nothing while it builds up, and at the same time, the damage is not THAT bad. Even for all magicka. If the fight gets really rough, I backpeddle with the bow out and shot rounds as I wait for some skill to recharge to turn the tide of battle.

What I'm saying is, every build is viable. Even a sorcerer that uses a sword and bow. Even a night blade that uses a staff. I have seen sorcerers tank, and dragon knights heal.

Any class can use any weapon and make it work. Just depends on how you play. Obviously some combos will be alot weaker then others, but don't count any combo out.

This game is all about diversity folks. If you stick with the concept that a dragon knight needs a sword or a sorcerer needs a staff then that's all on you.

CriD

Also, on a side note. Sometimes I like to jump in my undies and chase low level players around in the starting area. Usually meet some cool laid back people. Hows that for diversity

Ace_SiN

Dual Wielding gives you the most Spell Damage. There are already magicka builds making use of that bonus, but your damage will come from other skill lines, not the weapon skill line. I'm all for more options, but you're not exactly limited strictly to staff. Admittedly I'm mainly a PvPer, so I don't know how big of a difference it is for the PvE side of things.

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

What you don't want to see has already been happening for a year now. Just because you have a limited imagination doesn't mean it is how things should be. Players will do whatever the game allows to be viable. The Elder Scrolls Online should never have had classes in the first place, if they were staying true to the series. However, the current way classes are at least leaves some creative freedom that TES fans are accustomed to.

VincentBlanquin

you are wrong - before 1.6. game was full of hybrids - after 1.6. hybrids not viable

after 1.6. - game turn too much to please hardcores, i wish it go back ...

Valrien

CriD wrote: »

*snip*.

Yeah, but what if you could still focus on magicka, but do even MORE damage with a greatsword? That's pretty much all this is about. All builds are viable, but this is about making "mage" type characters even better by being able to use whatever weapon they want and use it as well as a pure-stamina build would use their physical weapon. I see no problem with this.

BurtFreeman

on my experience, in real life, any kind of weapon has it proper mode to be used, and i think is quite realistic and immersive the way the game propose those weapons (apart the staffs, that could be have less power all around with some stamina skills)
few retouch could be done here and there, like the destro destructive touch, that is a kind of techinque (knock back) that could require stamina.
i'm agree that something has to be done, becouse i've always leveled all weapon, but i prefer to use resto and destro or just double destro (too powerfull skills and passives respect of other weapons)

CriD

Why would a sorc need to be even more powerful? Lol. Sorcs are beasts. It seems like you want to completely be a mage in the sense of all magicka, but still chop people up...? Not trying to be rude but mage it up on one character then just make an alt to chop people to ribbons. If I could be a sorc, and be just as good as a melee fighter with a sword, then that would be weird. The game breeds diversity as I said, but if any class could do any type of skill just as good as a class more geared foe it (sorcerer being a mage instead of a ....crap every class has good things foe mages). What I'm trying to say, if you had it your way, we wouldn't need classes. A mage could be just as viable as someone specced for stamina at beating people with a sword. Diversity is great, but you need some limitations so classes are still somewhat unique.

PBpsy

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

Only problem with that is that they didn't throw them far enough.

Valrien

CriD wrote: »

Why would a sorc need to be even more powerful? Lol. Sorcs are beasts. It seems like you want to completely be a mage in the sense of all magicka, but still chop people up...? Not trying to be rude but mage it up on one character then just make an alt to chop people to ribbons. If I could be a sorc, and be just as good as a melee fighter with a sword, then that would be weird. The game breeds diversity as I said, but if any class could do any type of skill just as good as a class more geared foe it (sorcerer being a mage instead of a ....crap every class has good things foe mages). What I'm trying to say, if you had it your way, we wouldn't need classes. A mage could be just as viable as someone specced for stamina at beating people with a sword. Diversity is great, but you need some limitations so classes are still somewhat unique.

The classes are unique, unless you can show me a Dragon Knight that uses Crystal Fragments :P

FancyTuna8

If I remember correctly, Oblivion had a ton of classes, plus you could construct your own. My memory of 2nd ed. AD&D is very clear, and I loved the 8 basic classes, plus some of the hardcover books and Dragon magazine introduced very specialized classes such as Chevalier and Swashbuckler. I know this isn't that game, but my fondness for the large variety of classes still stands. What would be perfect, to me, is if there were a lot of classes, but they only had two skill trees unique to them--one combat and one non-combat. Everything else could be accessed by all classes, and therefore you could greatly mix and match the weapons/skills/builds. I could see having a mage use things like swords or bows, especially if a mage using a bow was like the Ranger (Hank) on the D&D cartoon.
I know I'm in the extreme minority, but the idea that I could be a class like Fisherman or Sailor, as one of 20+ classes, and have specialized skills for fishing or swimming (or combat at sea), would be a dream. There would be almost no problem as to balancing, as 90%+ of all skills would be available to all characters. You would just be choosing a class for that sliver of gameplay that you wanted to be skilled at in a way no one else could.
Slightly off-topic, I really wish they would get rid of the tank/healer/dps roles--it feels so cookie-cutter and is so boring. No matter what I do, I can only be so "unique" in this game because we have 3 roles to fill while dressing it up with 4 classes, 2 genders, 10 races and appearance specifics. Sure, there is some play in how you use the skills and equipment, but not enough for millions of players to cut out a unique character.

Shunravi

PBpsy wrote: »

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

Only problem with that is that they didn't throw them far enough.

they threw them when they should have loaded them into a cannon.


or put them on a Saturn V rocket....

lolo_01b16_ESO

My magickaTemplar is using dual wield on one bar and I still mange to complete vDSA or Sanctum hardmode. I also know that many of the Sorcs and magicka NBs in our guild use swords, so you can use other weapons than staves and still be good (or in my opinion be even better than someone who only uses staves)

BurtFreeman

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

My magickaTemplar is using dual wield on one bar and I still mange to complete vDSA or Sanctum hardmode. I also know that many of the Sorcs and magicka NBs in our guild use swords, so you can use other weapons than staves and still be good (or in my opinion be even better than someone who only uses staves)

very true, is almost the player that make the difference; i mean you can give the best weapon to one man, but without the proper knowledge on technique and training, he cannot do more then probabily hurt himself.

UrQuan

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything.

You must be new to Tamriel. This isn't WoW. This is an Elder Scrolls game. That means that everyone can be a magic user (and indeed every class in the game is), and everyone can use whatever armour or weapons they want. If you had played Morrowind or Oblivion or Skyrim you'd know that and expect it.

If you want another WoW clone, you'll be disappointed. If you stay stuck in your WoW mindset, you're not going to do well in ESO.

Wolfshead

Well you can have any weapon you want in ESO if want to but sad thing is that ZoS have made so that some is best for some class which is sad.

But i have see mage run around with 2h weapon real good dmg and he even have some plate armor as well it is not best weapon and gear for class but then again should have fun when you are playing game.

Heck even i run around with plate armor from time to time on my NB just for fun of it.

Messy1

HalfTooth wrote: »

Dear Bethesda/ Wonderful makers of the Elder Scrolls.

I have been playing this game since Beta, aside from taking a break last year and I still get more enjoyment out of this game than I could possibly say. However there is one small problem that is nagging and nagging at me and I wanted to explain the problem to you and a well thought out solution.

The problem:
I love playing mage character, they are my first choice whenever there’s an option. I have loved turning all the classes available on ESO into mages, my fire mage dragonknight being my absolute favourite. Naturally my preferred weapon is a staff since this has access to all the magic spell attacks. But sometimes I like to mix things up a bit, I like to play my dragonknight switching between staff and daggers, or sometimes staff and greatsword. However when I got to ranked level and started properly paying attention to damage outputs and how skills damage is calculated I because disappointed that my characters which are specced as mages (25 magicka, 12 health, 12 stamina) just do not do enough damage with all the non staff weapons. Since destruction and restoration staves are the only weapons that scale of magic, and not all my characters are healers I feel somewhat locked to one weapon. Sure when roaming around on my own I can use the other weapons for fun but whenever I need to actually get anywhere i.e. bosses, dungeons, public dungeons etc.. I need to use the staff simply for the damage output.
To summarise: For mages the staff is only weapon they can use effectively.


The Solution:
I thought a lot about a solution to this problem, initially I thought why can’t the other weapons scale off magicka or stamina... whichever is higher..., but I didn’t like this idea, it is a simple solution but it causes too many problems. I then thought of how typically all Elder Scrolls games have bound weapons in them. Would it be possible to get the bound weapons into the game with each weapon basically fulfilling the same role as their real counterparts but using magicka to calculate damage instead of stamina?
At first I thought maybe they’d be toggle on and off spells that sit in your skill bar, since bound weapons are spells. But I then realised there would be additional problems of mages being a step behind non mages due to the loss of one skill slot. So I then thought, what if the bound weapons where essentially scrolls as items. For example you would find a scroll of bound great sword, the icon would be a scroll, but it would have the same function as a regular great sword. You equip it by putting it in the first hand weapon box, and can add enchantments and charges just the same. The only difference would be that when you have your weapon sheathed it would visually disappear, when you get out your weapon it is the same animation but the weapon materialises in your hands. It would work exactly the same for bound daggers, bound mace and shield, bound bow.
To summarise: Add bound weapon equivalents that calculate damage based on magicka rather than stamina.


Additional Thoughts:
To keep things simple the only difference with the bound weapons could be the visuals and the way damage is calculated, meaning that all the skill lines already in game would apply to both physical and bound weapons. However, being creative and preferring mages, maybe there would be an additional skill line for each bound weapon type. So a bound Bow would have a different skill line from the regular bow skill line. Possibly with things like Bound arrows being morphed into arrows of light (fitting with the templar) or volcanic spikes (fitting with dragonknight)
I also thought about how such weapons might be crafted if they were essentially a scroll. Keeping it magey, I thought maybe you would need to collect scaled herbs to create levelled inks, e.g. basic black ink for level 1-15 weapons, ink of aetherius for rank 1-3 weapons. It would be most fitting to add this to alchemy, since you would mix the herbs with levelled water to create the ink, and maybe you buy scrolls from mystic stores (the same people who sell soul gems) or find blank scrolls lying around. Possibly you also mix in the racial item (flint, bone, moonstone etc..) to essentially make a bound version of the already existing weapon.
I know that typically the bound weapons are always bluey purple, but it would be really awesome if there was some control over the colour to fit with your character, for example the templar might prefer white/silver weapons to maintain the warrior of light aesthetic, a sorcerer might look best with the bluey purple weapons, a dragonkight might prefer lava-ry red weapons.

Summary: Please consider adding bound weapon counterparts to the game that use magicka to calculate damage instead of stamina to allow mage specced characters to have more weapon diversity.

As an aspiring game designer myself I really considered the problem, found a solution and thought about how to seamlessly implement it into the game in a lore friendly way.

Elder scrolls is awesome!

I was reallt hoping myself that bound weapons would be more of an option. I like you ideas immensely and you have really put some thought into it.

Messy1

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

I could not disagree with you more, ESO has provided some very creative builds that still meet the roles of Tank, DPS, or Healer. The most important role in ESO at higher levels is DPS . . . you need A TON of DPS to take down the harder bosses. At times I do come across player who are nto familiar with the trifecta roles and I educate them a little, but ultimately say that their play style is up to them. I am a patient group person and I don't just rage quit cause someone is not performing their role properly. That being said, I offer suggestions for them to perform better and then if they still can't get it I politely break up the group and go my way. Also, I do not have a problem playing my role in the VR dungeons with other Veteran MMO players, I can role with the best of them.

TheShadowScout

Personally I dislike the idea of making up "bound weapons" that work like melee weapons, but scale off magica...

The way I see it, stamina represents training in reflexes, strength, endurance and all the things a classic fighter needs to fight well.
And magica represents concentration, mental discipline, mystic knowledge and all the things that make magic powerful.

So why should there be swords that suddenly use all this mental training and be better in martial combat for it?

I understand that some would like to have their cake and eat it too, but I think there ought to be choices to be made. Either go stamina and forego great magics, or go magica and forgo strong weapon attacks, or go balanced and have some of each, but excel in neither.


That stated...

I for one would love to see more weapon diversity for mages. Not talking about swords or battleaxes... but something to mix up the boring "staves, staves, only staves" selection. I'd love to see "spell foci", stuff like holy symbols, ornate spellbooks, gemmed skulls, shaman rattles, ayleid crystals, etc. for our characters to wield. Heck, perhaps even magic wands, scepters, rods... give us more choices!
And then... there are way more magic staves in the game then we players get, we have healing and fire/frost/lightning, but NPCs also have reddish illusion staves, purplish hedge wizard staves, "coldfire" necromancers staves, and so on... those effects too would be neat to add to the mages arsenal, if only to prevent all the casters from getting too much staff envy...

Shunravi

How about scrolls. Let's get scrolls for mages. I mean, it is elder scrolls

UrQuan

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I dislike the idea of making up "bound weapons" that work like melee weapons, but scale off magica...

"Making up" bound weapons that are based on Magicka?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Bound_Items
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bound_Weapon
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Bound_Weapon
Such magical bound weapons have been part of the lore and gameplay of TES games for a looooong time...

Metal10957

Hehe, I was quoted like 5-7 times. I didn't mean to *** anyone off, but I guess I will have to get used to one size fits all.

I do like the game for other reasons such as the combat and graphics.

I was upset when I started the game as a Templar because I wanted to heal end game raids only to find out anyone can do that. I will get over myself at some point, just needed to vent.

UrQuan

Metal10957 wrote: »

Hehe, I was quoted like 5-7 times. I didn't mean to *** anyone off, but I guess I will have to get used to one size fits all.

I do like the game for other reasons such as the combat and graphics.

I was upset when I started the game as a Templar because I wanted to heal end game raids only to find out anyone can do that. I will get over myself at some point, just needed to vent.

I don't think you pissed anyone off. You just came into the game with preconceived notions, and those preconceived notions simply don't fit into the Elder Scrolls lore and world.

newtinmpls

Metal10957 wrote: »

Pardon me, but I do not want to see magic users wielding big 2 handed hammers. Nor do I want to see heavy armor warriors casting healing spells with a staff. This game just threw class roles out the window, no sence of purpose or pride in the classes since any class can do anything. I'm guessing well over half the players have no concept of needing a tank, healer and damage dealers to form a solid group. This thread strengthens my hypothesis.

I'd like to see a choice of a stamina or magicka morph on all skills (or a lot more of them) for this very reason. "other" MMOs may NEED to slot characters into roles. ES requires more thought to play well.

There are plenty of vidoes explaining unconventional but effective builds - yes it takes work, but it's worth it, and it's fun.

PBpsy

Metal10957 wrote: »

I was upset when I started the game as a Templar because I wanted to heal end game raids only to find out anyone can do that. I will get over myself at some point, just needed to vent.

No one can heal like Templar though.
The healer role has the greatest disparity between classes.
For dps more or less all classes are on par slight difference but close enough except maybe for stamina sorcs.
For tanks mostly the same, DKs are the best ,Temps and NB are close behind Dk and Sorcs are a bit behind. They can all do the job.
There is however only one BOL. Think of the templar as the only class that can carry a not so good group trough end game PVE. When healing with other classes is more that your group is so damn good that even a sorc can heal them.

HalfTooth

Hello everyone, Thanks for the variety of responses!

I do think a lot of what’s being said is an overreaction though, you’d think Bethesda themselves had said they were going to implement this into the game tomorrow or something. I’m thinking open minded, seeing a problem and trying to form a solution.

The problem I’m getting at is most character either favour stamina or magicka, rarely is there a character with all attribute points distributed evenly. So if you are stamina favouring you have four weapon choices to choose from, if you are magicka favouring you have one weapon to choose from. Ignoring all the variations within these skill lines and ignoring restoration staff as for now I am just talking about damaging.

Basically 4 weapon sets versus 1 weapon set seems unbalanced to me.

Next, what I proposed above about there just being a bound version of each weapon is probably a quick fix, it might actually create less variety overall if it undermines a warrior/thief weapon play style. However as UrQuan pointed out, bound weapons have been in the previous 3 elder scrolls games, so as far as lore goes it’s not that farfetched. However I’d like to suggest some other solutions:

Solution one:
Add bound weapon to the game in the way I stated above, except they have their own separate skill lines and have slightly different functions. Maybe they aren’t actually ‘physical’ weapons that would require physical stamina to swing, maybe they are ghostly and go straight through targets dealing magic damage instead of physical slicing or bashing. These bound weapons would use magicka to swing with and their skills would also scale of the magicka attribute. Maybe the bound shield would look more like the wards seen in Skyrim.

Solution two:
Add additional staffs. Where is the illusion staff, the alteration staff and the mystic staff? What if the illusion staff had skills for charming (like persuade) and had fear, rally and frenzy attached to it. Maybe the illusion staff has singular invisibility or a small radius of chameleon, for sneaking groups through places. Using the frenzy on enemies and watching them kill each other from far away was always a favourite play style in previous tes games.
Maybe the alteration staff is like a ‘stupport’ staff, increasing caster armour, or having a radius armour increase for boosting in dungeons. Maybe it has enemy detection skills and temporary stun and paralyze? Maybe it can weaken enemy armour, or disintegrate it.
Maybe the mysticism staff has absorption powers, stealing health, magicka and stamina. Maybe it has spell reflect skills?
I’m not sure on the specifics but it would be great to add more staffs in that could be used for damage, or support. It would ope up lots more play styles and combinations.

Solution three:
As The Shadow Scout mentioned in a previous post, why not add in sceptres, focuses, being able to hold Alyied crystals or Welkynd stones and channel the energy into new spells. As well as scrolls and spell books.
This idea would really add a lot of creative new ways to play as a mage.


I should also just say that in my posts I am primarily thinking about PvE. I have never done PvP in eso so I don’t actually know how what I am suggesting would affect that.

This all being said, I’ve also kind of wished for greater weapon diversity overall. I wish there was an option to use a staff as a melee weapon. I would love to see Unarmed make a comeback, as well as spears and longbows. But this is getting off topic. Mainly I want to address the issue of 4 stamina damage weapons versus 1 magicka damage weapon.

UrQuan

PBpsy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I dislike the idea of making up "bound weapons" that work like melee weapons, but scale off magica...

"Making up" bound weapons that are based on Magicka?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Bound_Items
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bound_Weapon
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Bound_Weapon
Such magical bound weapons have been part of the lore and gameplay of TES games for a looooong time...

No one can heal like Templar though.
The healer role has the greatest disparity between classes.
For dps more or less all classes are on par slight difference but close enough except maybe for stamina sorcs.
For tanks mostly the same, DKs are the best ,Temps and NB are close behind Dk and Sorcs are a bit behind. They can all do the job.
There is however only one BOL. Think of the templar as the only class that can carry a not so good group trough end game PVE. When healing with other classes is more that your group is so damn good that even a sorc can heal them.

Um @PBpsy , did you quote the wrong post by accident? Because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about in the post that you quoted... In fact, I'm wondering if you posted this in the wrong thread entirely, because there's another active thread that comes to mind where your post above would be very pertinent.

PBpsy

UrQuan wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I dislike the idea of making up "bound weapons" that work like melee weapons, but scale off magica...

"Making up" bound weapons that are based on Magicka?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Bound_Items
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bound_Weapon
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Bound_Weapon
Such magical bound weapons have been part of the lore and gameplay of TES games for a looooong time...

No one can heal like Templar though.
The healer role has the greatest disparity between classes.
For dps more or less all classes are on par slight difference but close enough except maybe for stamina sorcs.
For tanks mostly the same, DKs are the best ,Temps and NB are close behind Dk and Sorcs are a bit behind. They can all do the job.
There is however only one BOL. Think of the templar as the only class that can carry a not so good group trough end game PVE. When healing with other classes is more that your group is so damn good that even a sorc can heal them.

Um @PBpsy , did you quote the wrong post by accident? Because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about in the post that you quoted... In fact, I'm wondering if you posted this in the wrong thread entirely, because there's another active thread that comes to mind where your post above would be very pertinent.

Yes.I fixed it. Sorry, must be the skooma.

TheShadowScout

UrQuan wrote: »

Such magical bound weapons have been part of the lore and gameplay of TES games for a looooong time...

I have no problem with summoning bound weapons. What I meant was that I don't think conjuring up a sword should magically give a skilled caster (aka magica build) the skills of a trained swordsman (aka stamina build).
Wouldn't mind seeing summoned weapons, they have been around TES for ages after all... just let them scale off stamina to represent training to use such weapons...

But while I would be opposed to have magica swords, I too would very much like to see more magica based "magic tools", not just destruction and restoration staves. And woodworking really could use some more things to craft/research... adding an "alteration" staff line with a mix of damage and support casts, maybe? Then have three "flavors" of staff for that, illusion, mystic and shaman? With the skills having different effects depending on staff flavor? Something like that, I'd love to see...

As mentioned, I'd also like to see spell foci options for all magic currently cast by staves, those would be great to bring to the game together with jewelry crafting, something else sorely missing...


As for counting the skill lines... weeeeeellll... has noone else yet noticed there are two per "classic role"?
"Warriors" get 2H and S&B, "Rouges" have DW and Bow, "Mages" the two staves...
I'd love to see more though!


And while we are talking new weapons... what I also would love was a skill line to support balanced builds, which kinda are a bit meh right now. A "spellsword" one-handed weapon and rune kind of weapon line? Bring it on! (and the "rune" would then be another thing for jewelers to craft...)