Experience Point Booster Outrage

elixir

I don't get it. It seems like every argument I've heard against this comes from a non-console player. Maybe they're purists. I don't know.

I'm in favor of the boosts. People have been enjoying the advantage of add-ons for a year. That advantage does not recycle any revenue back into the game while the potions allow for another revenue stream which ultimately increases the budget for what can be added to the game.

But I acknowledge that I'm new here. What am I missing?

DDuke

They come from non-console players, because non-console players have actually reached Veteran Ranks and unlocked the Champion System, which is what you have probably missed.

Educate yourself on how the Champion System works, and how XP Boosters affect that system.

Snit

I'm outraged that they're not in the Crown Shop yet.

I have alts to level

pecheckler

Customers should not be accepting of damage done to the game's economy or player balance for the sake of increased revenue. That's what we've gotten since the addition of the crown store.

If obtaining 3600 champion points takes x hours normally and obtaining 3600 takes 1/2 x hours, then that's pay2win. That's higher stats across the board for a player at a faster rate. Use a credit card and have an advantage in PvP. It's as simple as that.

elixir

There are many types of customers. Some have incredible amounts of time to play. Others have less of that but maybe more money. The pay to win argument is a way for people to force the game to cater to type 1. Where type 1 may be making a choice not to spend. Everyone shouldn't suffer for that choice especially not the people willing to invest something tangible into the game.

c0rp

pecheckler wrote: »

If obtaining 3600 champion points takes x hours normally and obtaining 3600 takes 1/2 x hours, then that's pay2win. That's higher stats across the board for a player at a faster rate. Use a credit card and have an advantage in PvP. It's as simple as that.

I am sorry, but getting stronger faster is not P2W. Especially when the item that is givng the speed boost is available in the game as a craftable.

DDuke

elixir wrote: »

There are many types of customers. Some have incredible amounts of time to play. Others have less of that but maybe more money. The pay to win argument is a way for people to force the game to cater to type 1. Where type 1 may be making a choice not to spend. Everyone shouldn't suffer for that choice especially not the people willing to invest something tangible into the game.

And there are people with incredible amounts of time to play, and incredible amounts of money to spend.
Where does that leave us?

elixir

That leaves you choosing which way you want to play. Choices are good.

nimander99

elixir wrote: »

I don't get it. It seems like every argument I've heard against this comes from a non-console player. Maybe they're purists. I don't know.

I'm in favor of the boosts. People have been enjoying the advantage of add-ons for a year. That advantage does not recycle any revenue back into the game while the potions allow for another revenue stream which ultimately increases the budget for what can be added to the game.

But I acknowledge that I'm new here. What am I missing?

Meh... some people just scream p2w no matter what bra, doesn't matter if said item requires no money or not. I mean think about it, if people are against crafting a pot that gives exp boost then they should be equally against food that boosts stats, right?

It's to the point where it sounds to me like "OMG PWNZOR creatod a video gamz that have stats that's P2w win!!!! because I had to buy gamz"

DDuke

elixir wrote: »

That leaves you choosing which way you want to play. Choices are good.

No.

That leaves you choosing whether you want to spend most of your spare time in grinding goblins and most of your wallet on Cash Shop, or if you want to fall behind and become irrelevant in PvE & PvP.

There's no other options, as long as people with both time and money exist (and they do).

That is, unless your goal in game is to smell flowers & catch butterflies. In that case, winning is irrelevant for you (let alone paying for it).

Frenkthevile

The recipe can be found ingame, and if you're a ''skilled''crafter you make more drinks at a time...and they last twice the duration of the crown version. So...stop crying: CPs DO HAVE a cap afterall, and we'll get here.

PS: the crown cost is very high...10€ for 300 minutes...

PPS: PvP ruins games.

Tavore1138

DDuke wrote: »

elixir wrote: »

There are many types of customers. Some have incredible amounts of time to play. Others have less of that but maybe more money. The pay to win argument is a way for people to force the game to cater to type 1. Where type 1 may be making a choice not to spend. Everyone shouldn't suffer for that choice especially not the people willing to invest something tangible into the game.

And there are people with incredible amounts of time to play, and incredible amounts of money to spend.
Where does that leave us?

It leaves the rich but talentless taking advantage just like the real world - but as long as the talented group up and the smack them then our game will keep going while we take the AP from them and they whine like the tragic genetic mistakes they are.

WebBull

Thanks for another thread on this............

elixir

Those are not the only two options. You can still do both, fall behind and become irrelevant. There's no guarantee spending money (and/or time) makes you a better player.

reften

pecheckler wrote: »

Customers should not be accepting of damage done to the game's economy or player balance for the sake of increased revenue. That's what we've gotten since the addition of the crown store.

If obtaining 3600 champion points takes x hours normally and obtaining 3600 takes 1/2 x hours, then that's pay2win. That's higher stats across the board for a player at a faster rate. Use a credit card and have an advantage in PvP. It's as simple as that.

this 100%. I don't understand how people don't get this. It's no different then giving players who pay more a better weapon to attack with.

firstdecan

elixir wrote: »

I don't get it. It seems like every argument I've heard against this comes from a non-console player. Maybe they're purists. I don't know.

I'm in favor of the boosts. People have been enjoying the advantage of add-ons for a year. That advantage does not recycle any revenue back into the game while the potions allow for another revenue stream which ultimately increases the budget for what can be added to the game.

But I acknowledge that I'm new here. What am I missing?

You're right, most of the people against it are probably PC players. Many (like me) are upset that the game has gone b2p (it originally required a subscription). So pretty much any item that comes to the crown store and gives any kind of advantage is now perceived as a p2w item, rightly or wrongly.

The whole "increases the budget for the game" will be a non-starter for most of us. We were told our subs were going to pay for regular content update, of which we got very little (Craglorn being the only significant content update, and ZoS went out of their way to make sure few people were interested in it). That's a whole other argument though, and one that's mostly irrelevant. Most PC players will no longer be here after Nov 10th.

DDuke

elixir wrote: »

Those are not the only two options. You can still do both, fall behind and become irrelevant. There's no guarantee spending money (and/or time) makes you a better player.

No, just like there aren't any guarantees that someone spending much time and much money in game couldn't also be a good player.

Zorrashi

pecheckler wrote: »

Customers should not be accepting of damage done to the game's economy or player balance for the sake of increased revenue. That's what we've gotten since the addition of the crown store.

If obtaining 3600 champion points takes x hours normally and obtaining 3600 takes 1/2 x hours, then that's pay2win. That's higher stats across the board for a player at a faster rate. Use a credit card and have an advantage in PvP. It's as simple as that.

I agree with this overall, but I will at the very least give ZOS some credit for allowing the XP boosters to be crafted in-game. Situation could be a lot worse if they only allowed it in the cash shop. It is not strictly P2W because of that, though it is cutting it close.
But still, the implementation seems somewhat finicky at best (but then, that's only at first glace. It's only been out for while). The XP boosters have a high potential to only increase the power gap between new and experiences players, and if not handled properly, does not bode well for the longevity for the game.

Spottswoode

Snit wrote: »

I'm outraged that they're not in the Crown Shop yet.

I have alts to level

If the potions were solely used to level to a current standard or VR14, there would be no issue. Placing a cap on CR gains, even a moving one, would be sufficient to mitigate the problem.

Psychobunni

@elixir PC players generally(not always) have more MMO experience than consolers and have seen such items ruin games they loved. The Champion System was bad enough as obviously those with the most time to play grind are going to be leaps and bounds ahead of the pack but that is a norm even in life. Those who invest the most time generally have the best results.

Ability to buy the way through faster sounds good on its cover....random Jack thinks it will help him catch up to random Jill...except Jill is using them too, so you never really catch up. "But CP's cap" you say??? If ZOS has any sense they are already thinking about what comes after the 3600 and tossing around ideas for the next "progression" system ESO style.

TLDR- Its the last complaints from those of us that expected an Elder Scrolls game to be better than a chinese browser whale hunt and haven't fully accepted the future of ESO when the Champion system was introduced.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

The xp SCROLLS will be coming to the store. Might as well just get it in your head they already went over all this. They decided to do it this way. All the chicken little stuff comes to be then they will change it. I seriously doubt the sky will fall like some will have you believe. All your worries will have been for nothing.

Spottswoode

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The xp SCROLLS will be coming to the store. Might as well just get it in your head they already went over all this. They decided to do it this way. All the chicken little stuff comes to be then they will change it. I seriously doubt the sky will fall like some will have you believe. All your worries will have been for nothing.

You're going to credit them with competence after all this time?

anitajoneb17_ESO

pecheckler wrote: »

Customers should not be accepting of damage done to the game's economy or player balance for the sake of increased revenue. That's what we've gotten since the addition of the crown store.

If obtaining 3600 champion points takes x hours normally and obtaining 3600 takes 1/2 x hours, then that's pay2win. That's higher stats across the board for a player at a faster rate. Use a credit card and have an advantage in PvP. It's as simple as that.

1/ An economy cannot be "damaged"... it is always balanced and regulated by supply and demand. Of course these potions will change supply and demand for various things (from bervez juice to fishing baits and crafted potions and of course the recipes) but that's a change, not a damage.

2/ If X is the non-boosted time for a CP, then with a + 50% boost this time becomes X/1.5 and not X/2. Basic maths before screaming p2w please.

And don't forget that a proper L2P will *always* beat CPs at endgame. Especially in PvP where player's skills matter much more than DPS-brute-force.

And most of all, I'm very happy that no (self-censored adjective here) farmer in upper Craglorn will leave nodes with only the worms left in them any more ;-)

elixir

Most PC players will no longer be here after Nov 10th.

I feel bad for the PC players. Seriously. It probably feels like you played a year long beta and paid to do it. That sucks and it shouldn't be that way.

The larger issue is this, like everything else, is a business. I imagine PC players may be seeing the writing on the wall much like comic fans when they stare down the cinematic juggernaut. There's just too much money in the console market and it's being noticed. Disney and Warner Bros. will make more money and reach more people than Marvel and DC Comics. Like comics fans, PC gamers are the natives. Those natives seem to be getting pushed aside for financial potential. I don't know what's going to stop it.

The game is being exposed to wider audience. That's a good thing.

Part of the business is generating interest and income. This move to console and the inclusion of what some lazily name "pay to win", I believe, will ultimately help. Some will be lost. More will be gained and that's the bet that's being made.

MornaBaine

I don't have an issue with items that speed leveling so that people can get to the parts of the game they want to experience. I'm only upset that this will not allow me to actually complete the horror of Cadwell's Silver any faster since completing it depends upon doing the main story quests so even if you out-level the zone you are still stuck doing them before you can escape to Cadwell's Gold. This does NOT confer an advantage in PvP. If anything it may be a handicap as players will not have put in the hours to really master their class and build before hitting Cyrodiil in the upper ranks where players who have "done it the hard way" can be expected to wipe the floor with them. Selling weapons and armor in the store with stats comparable to or better than crafted WOULD be pay-to-win and THAT is where I expect players to draw the line.

Spottswoode

elixir wrote: »

Most PC players will no longer be here after Nov 10th.

I feel bad for the PC players. Seriously. It probably feels like you played a year long beta and paid to do it. That sucks and it shouldn't be that way.

The larger issue is this, like everything else, is a business. I imagine PC players may be seeing the writing on the wall much like comic fans when they stare down the cinematic juggernaut. There's just too much money in the console market and it's being noticed. Disney and Warner Bros. will make more money and reach more people than Marvel and DC Comics. Like comics fans, PC gamers are the natives. Those natives seem to be getting pushed aside for financial potential. I don't know what's going to stop it.

The game is being exposed to wider audience. That's a good thing.

Part of the business is generating interest and income. This move to console and the inclusion of what some lazily name "pay to win", I believe, will ultimately help. Some will be lost. More will be gained and that's the bet that's being made.

Sorry, but chasing every little dollar is why the global markets are as in as bad shape as they are. Most companies invest in what's popular instead of what's reliable. The transition from P2P to B2P is no different. B2P is trading a steady paycheck for commission....which is fine as long as you can keep up sales. If you can't you fall faster and harder than with a steady paycheck. This, additionally, causes developers to prioritize on small marketable items (cosmetics, potions, scrolls and other cash shop junk) over development of actual content. You guys are not better off because the game went B2P. No one is. But at least you aren't paying $15 a month.

As to it being business, if profits is their highest goal, they will abandon consoles and develop for mobiles. Mobiles are the biggest game market now. (Sad, but true.) They require minimum investment and have maximized profits.

dsalter

my only outrage is the price. should be double the price if they wanna cheese past crafting. and make incredients slightly more common (rare rathen than epic so higher chance)

elixir

Why do people act like Buy to Play hasn't been the model since Pong? For decades, games were B2P. I'd argue the subscription model did more harm than B2P ever did.

Spottswoode

elixir wrote: »

Why do people act like Buy to Play hasn't been the model since Pong? For decades, games were B2P. I'd argue the subscription model did more harm than B2P ever did.

Pong didn't have a cash shop. Next argument please.

dsalter

Spottswoode wrote: »

elixir wrote: »

Why do people act like Buy to Play hasn't been the model since Pong? For decades, games were B2P. I'd argue the subscription model did more harm than B2P ever did.

Pong didn't have a cash shop. Next argument please.

Pong.
Beer DLC costs a fortune

qsnoopyjr

TESO should do what GW2 does, give you level scrolls.

I've got a whole stack of 250 level scrolls in my bank in GW2.
Be nice to have a whole stack of 100 level scrolls in TESO, so I can level 1 to V14 instantly!

In GW2 you obtain them primarily through pvp, TESO should be the same way, obtained in AvA for 20,000 AP a piece or from a reward of the worthy.