DMG in PVP is RDICULOUS, FIX!

Etharian

Time to kill needs to be one of the first things addressed. First game ever that allows Macroed exploits, constant lag and 1 move doing 20k+ dmg ... wtf kind of fun is that ZOS? living for a fraction of a sec without being able to fight back is NOT fun!

Radiant destruction

Focused AIM

tons of other abilities ppl just spam and get 1 shotted.

DDuke

I agree, but at the same time they need to reduce the efficiency of heals, dmg shields & blocking, as well as sustain.

Otherwise, it's going to be shield spam all day long in PvP and no chance for builds that aren't focused on dmg shields, heals or permablocking to outsustain opponent.

In an ideal world, they would give everyone much, much more health in Cyrodiil (like 2-3 times more than currently), while reducing the efficiency of dmg shields by either reducing their strength and/or increasing their cost significantly, making blocking directional and healing reduction effects more powerful.

Zheg

Etharian wrote: »

Time to kill needs to be one of the first things addressed. First game ever that allows Macroed exploits, constant lag and 1 move doing 20k+ dmg ... wtf kind of fun is that ZOS? living for a fraction of a sec without being able to fight back is NOT fun!

Radiant destruction

Focused AIM

tons of other abilities ppl just spam and get 1 shotted.

You should never die from 1 cast of radiant destruction. Most people in pvp run a few pieces of nirnhoned, and it's absurdly easy to get your spell resist close to cap because of it. I'll cast jesus beam on someone who's at full health if I don't want to use a gap closer just yet because it's the only range skill I have on my bars besides heavy resto attack (and that's not going to scare anybody). The sad thing is, there ARE some people that will die from 1 cast of jesus beam at full health, and I'm just using it to engage and maybe draw them out of their zerg. With that sad, the vast majority of people are able to shrug it off as no big deal, so you either need to improve your gear, or accept that magicka dps counters whatever glass cannon build you're running. Furthermore, for me to do good dmg as a magicka temp means 2 snipes and I'm dead if I'm not blocking/get sneak attacked. Physical dps builds counter mine, as do some sorcs that can run insanely high harness magicka shields + hardened ward. Counters should still exist even if/when (who am I kidding... "IF") ZOS ever addresses the time to kill.

As for snipe/wrecking blow, I agree, the time to kill is way too short given that people can animation cancel (and perhaps exploit? I've been hit by 3 snipes in less than a second with no lag from the same guy). But, among all of the neglected problems of pvp, this is probably one of the lesser ones in terms of importance, imo.

VincentBlanquin

after console launch

Soris

After E3 ™

Cinbri

Soris wrote: »

After E3 ™

When E3 will happen?

RedTalon

Soon(tm)

Agrippa_Invisus

Cinbri wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

After E3 ™

When E3 will happen?

It starts June 16th and runs until the 18th. Middle of next week.

Araxleon

Soris wrote: »

After E3 ™

After fallout 4

david.haypreub18_ESO

The odd thing is, before 1.6, I don't recall anyone saying, 'Wow, the Time To Kill is way too long in this game... we need to nerf it drastically so that we can kill people in under 1 second!'. Sure, there was some complaining about builds that were unkillable, but that was partly due to the ridiculouslness of light armor and blocking, which is now entirely fixed.

So who was asking for this? It just seems odd that the developers would fundamentally change the game in a way that no one was asking for.

Cogo

ZoS!

Fix the broken players already!
I pay sub for a working game! Where is the patch to fix the obvious broken players who can't read skill or game info? Where is the patch for players who blames anyone and anything other then themselves when they die from not moving away or block attacks!?

And this lag problem has been here for a year! Unacceptable! Where is the patch to upgrade players who blames lag that ONLY they have have and never every one else?!

Alcast

trolol

Agrippa_Invisus

Oh boy. Them Counterstrike levels of survivability.

Snit

Time To Kill goes down considerably when you realize that TESO PvP is about active defenses. Block, Dodge, Shield, Cloak and the like are all more important than your build or your gear.

Gear still makes a difference. Nirnhoned can put anyone well above the Spell Resist Hardcap, if they can raise the $150k or so for all the Nirncrux (and that should be trivial for anyone who plays every day). But even then, you can't just eat damage.

I get killed all the time. Usually, I can understand something I could have done differently to improve my odds.

eliisra

Snit wrote: »

Time To Kill goes down considerably when you realize that TESO PvP is about active defenses. Block, Dodge, Shield, Cloak and the like are all more important than your build or your gear.

For sure, but these active defences aren't responding quick enough. It's about bad performance, coding or just bad mechanics. I'm no expert on the technical part. But it plays huge part when it comes to TTK.

All I know is that I'm getting hit with 3-4 different attacks in less than 1 second from the same player. When something like that is allowed or supported by game mechanics, than cc break, potions and any defensive ability needs to respond instantly. Period.

But it doesn't, it's so slow. Than it doesn't matter that I stacked nirn, was wearing 5 heavy and had every defensive ability in the game slotted. Still die because crawling back up or getting control of your character takes a life time. Sometimes nothing happens at all, while furiously hammering the break free key and screaming. So you die, than rage some more.

Davadin

Zheg wrote: »

Etharian wrote: »

Time to kill needs to be one of the first things addressed. First game ever that allows Macroed exploits, constant lag and 1 move doing 20k+ dmg ... wtf kind of fun is that ZOS? living for a fraction of a sec without being able to fight back is NOT fun!

Radiant destruction

Focused AIM

tons of other abilities ppl just spam and get 1 shotted.

You should never die from 1 cast of radiant destruction. Most people in pvp run a few pieces of nirnhoned, and it's absurdly easy to get your spell resist close to cap because of it. I'll cast jesus beam on someone who's at full health if I don't want to use a gap closer just yet because it's the only range skill I have on my bars besides heavy resto attack (and that's not going to scare anybody). The sad thing is, there ARE some people that will die from 1 cast of jesus beam at full health, and I'm just using it to engage and maybe draw them out of their zerg. With that sad, the vast majority of people are able to shrug it off as no big deal, so you either need to improve your gear, or accept that magicka dps counters whatever glass cannon build you're running. Furthermore, for me to do good dmg as a magicka temp means 2 snipes and I'm dead if I'm not blocking/get sneak attacked. Physical dps builds counter mine, as do some sorcs that can run insanely high harness magicka shields + hardened ward. Counters should still exist even if/when (who am I kidding... "IF") ZOS ever addresses the time to kill.

As for snipe/wrecking blow, I agree, the time to kill is way too short given that people can animation cancel (and perhaps exploit? I've been hit by 3 snipes in less than a second with no lag from the same guy). But, among all of the neglected problems of pvp, this is probably one of the lesser ones in terms of importance, imo.

true.

im 5L/2H with zero nirrn DK, and i can withstand 3 radiant destruction *IF* i have enough magika to spam GDB, Igneous Shield and Hardened Armor..... then half-way down, i cast some DoT, and get enough ultimate to pop Corrosion Armor.......

cjthibs

Yes, everyone should be using some sort of shield skill.
If you're not you'll be one-shotted.

AbraXuSeXile

The ammount of people insta gibbing is insane and the numbers are getting more and more.

Agrippa_Invisus

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The ammount of people insta gibbing is insane and the numbers are getting more and more.

Well, as the instagibbing gets worse and people resign themselves to this new meta more and more, I've been noticing the activity levels on the boards decreasing, matching the population bars in game (or lack thereof).

How many more times does the problem need to be pointed out?

loki547

Dmg is not ridiculous!

Dark Patriot getting a taste of his own medicine


And poor old Tom Hanks, he should really stick to acting.

RinaldoGandolphi

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The ammount of people insta gibbing is insane and the numbers are getting more and more.

Well, as the instagibbing gets worse and people resign themselves to this new meta more and more, I've been noticing the activity levels on the boards decreasing, matching the population bars in game (or lack thereof).

How many more times does the problem need to be pointed out?

True, but i said it last year that Stealth is fundamentally broken in this game, and is the root of the problems with insta-kill builds.

Zhoyzu

Cogo wrote: »

ZoS!

Fix the broken players already!
I pay sub for a working game! Where is the patch to fix the obvious broken players who can't read skill or game info? Where is the patch for players who blames anyone and anything other then themselves when they die from not moving away or block attacks!?

And this lag problem has been here for a year! Unacceptable! Where is the patch to upgrade players who blames lag that ONLY they have have and never every one else?!

Let me stop you right there. YOU ARE WASTING MONEY!! ZoS does not wish to fix this game or they would have done so already.

Cogo

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

ZoS!

Fix the broken players already!
I pay sub for a working game! Where is the patch to fix the obvious broken players who can't read skill or game info? Where is the patch for players who blames anyone and anything other then themselves when they die from not moving away or block attacks!?

And this lag problem has been here for a year! Unacceptable! Where is the patch to upgrade players who blames lag that ONLY they have have and never every one else?!

Let me stop you right there. YOU ARE WASTING MONEY!! ZoS does not wish to fix this game or they would have done so already.

So there woun't be a patch to make players think? Well that sucks....FREE RESPEC!

Attorneyatlawl

Cogo wrote: »

ZoS!

Fix the broken players already!
I pay sub for a working game! Where is the patch to fix the obvious broken players who can't read skill or game info? Where is the patch for players who blames anyone and anything other then themselves when they die from not moving away or block attacks!?

And this lag problem has been here for a year! Unacceptable! Where is the patch to upgrade players who blames lag that ONLY they have have and never every one else?!

No kidding. I run into templars claiming to be built for damage in pvp yet they don't have dark flare or solar barrage, and are dual wielding resto staves one per bar. Then they mention they don't use a sword and shield bar because they're not aiming to be "tanky" while complaining they die easily to an enemy nuke. They also tend to laugh off the ideas of using the strongest heals in the game (nonultimate) including RoR and BoL, not even tied to a resto staff, or heal jabs as a stam drain and health sustain. Even spammable ranged aoe with 25% proc chance per target for extra damage that already bypasses part of enemies' block mitigation!

They stack spell damage with abandon but neglect any penetration or champ penetration (yes, both work), and wonder why they don't hit hard. Same is true of many bow or 2h users who claim to be unable to take down a shield in one attack round (weaved medium hit and one skill). Then you have people saying siege was incredibly overpowered, and heck some still do, when guides were made within a day or two to help point out the easy and common sense ways to make it not hurt from info back in beta, just to help them... and ignore it, continuing to die to it constantly even now. Players were much tougher generally in beta but they have taken nerfs over time just like veteran zones to where most even fights are now trivial. I mean, even the NPC's are better at reliably moving out of Talons!

Then I fight dragon knights that seem to know little else but to fossilize (they don't even use the good morph!) and run up to me so I can breakfree and talons them as I dodge and nuke them down. Sorcs that try to overload spam then realize it isn't working and streak away as I kill them or take their shields out and chip away at them as they recast and keep trying to escape. Nightblades that pop cloak but predictably try to melee me immediately and just get rooted and blocked because the timing is so typical. Templars trying to just spam heals without blocking even once or using something as basic as harness or blazing shield that fall right over.

The list could go on for hours... I wish players would be buffed to read skills, test briefly, and maybe plan their tactics better than wolves in Glenumbra again. Unfortunately there are few challenges to be found just like in PVE 99% of the time, unless being overrun by 50 people at once.

Here's an example of siege counters made easy, yet look how few outside of organized guild groups use this stuff much at all.

"I have seen some complaints lately about the recently buffed siege weapons which now are around as effective as during beta. People act as though there is no way to fight or mitigate it, and that is not correct. Armor and spell resist help mitigate it significantly (tested personally chasing red circles all night during sieges a couple of days ago), purge gets rid of the dot's and only needs to be carried by a handful of people in your group or area since it's a nice big aoe, siege bubble shield reduces it by 35% for a moderate area for around 20 seconds and can be dropped in chokepoints as your team rolls in, damage shields help buffer you from the initial hit, as do extra hitpoints.

Add in that it is almost always completely avoidable by sprinting out or walking out (barely ever need a dodge roll to get out f the spreading circle since it lands so slowly) and the overall balance of siege weaponry is good now. It busts low skilled zergs and blobs. It leaves players alive to have the actual fight. And it adds a lot more depth to combat in Cyrodiil, allowing defenders a chance to use the walls at keeps or terrain instead of waiting for them to fall since there's no viable way of preventing the inevitable .

And before someone says they're a vampire.... elusive mist. That is all you need.

Hopefully this helps shed some light for people and sparks more non glasscannon squishymode builds . "

Dark Synergy

Etharian wrote: »

Time to kill needs to be one of the first things addressed. First game ever that allows Macroed exploits, constant lag and 1 move doing 20k+ dmg ... wtf kind of fun is that ZOS? living for a fraction of a sec without being able to fight back is NOT fun!

Radiant destruction

Focused AIM

tons of other abilities ppl just spam and get 1 shotted.

What are these macros you're speaking of?

Attorneyatlawl

Dark Synergy wrote: »

Etharian wrote: »

Time to kill needs to be one of the first things addressed. First game ever that allows Macroed exploits, constant lag and 1 move doing 20k+ dmg ... wtf kind of fun is that ZOS? living for a fraction of a sec without being able to fight back is NOT fun!

Radiant destruction

Focused AIM

tons of other abilities ppl just spam and get 1 shotted.

What are these macros you're speaking of?

I am having trouble figuring out how supposed "macros" would even benefit someone in ESO for attack weaving, pause/delay timing, and generally any kind of fighting . The timing required is very loose and better off being done manually as I could think of a lot of downsides to even trying to "macro" it in the first place and no real gain if someone were inclined to try to for cheating anyway. Wonder if Etharian understands there are more attack types than hotbars, tapping weapon attack (light hit), or holding weapon attack until it fires on its own with a staff (heavy attack)? Partials, mediums, medium weaves, blocking animation/blocking in general weaving, timing to fake someone out of their block, casting as you start dodge rolling, potions inside of a weave, etc. all would not "macro'able" in an efficient fashion and would hamper your combat effectiveness as an average or better player in skill level.

defilade__ESO

Etharian wrote: »

Time to kill needs to be one of the first things addressed. First game ever that allows Macroed exploits, constant lag and 1 move doing 20k+ dmg ... wtf kind of fun is that ZOS? living for a fraction of a sec without being able to fight back is NOT fun!

Radiant destruction

Focused AIM

tons of other abilities ppl just spam and get 1 shotted.

Agreed. On the one hand, you can be pretty much insta-killed in less than two seconds, and not have a chance to respond at all.

And on the other hand, you have some class builds that have so many shields, protections and self-heals that five people beating on them and you still cannot kill them. But even these builds can be insta-killed from a player in stealth.

The way some players are killing people, I really am starting to think some of them are using some exploit to eliminate the time delay between skills. I say this because I have been killed by one guy, using two heavy attacks, two or three surprise attacks and other skills mixed in. It just seems impossible that they can do all of that in 1.5 seconds time.

I think it was Rift that I played before, where they limited the max damage a player could take from any one source, skill, AoE, dot etc... to just 50% of the player's max health.

Domander

DDuke wrote: »

I agree, but at the same time they need to reduce the efficiency of heals, dmg shields & blocking, as well as sustain.

Otherwise, it's going to be shield spam all day long in PvP and no chance for builds that aren't focused on dmg shields, heals or permablocking to outsustain opponent.

In an ideal world, they would give everyone much, much more health in Cyrodiil (like 2-3 times more than currently), while reducing the efficiency of dmg shields by either reducing their strength and/or increasing their cost significantly, making blocking directional and healing reduction effects more powerful.

Let's go ahead and add dodge in there, I see you "forgot" it.


I think they could just up max health though, I don't think shields are a problem at all except for sorc shield stacking. Fixing sustain would fix blocking, and dodge, and healing. They're all balanced around higher resource costs, if those costs become something that needs managed again... it will balance out.

Dark Synergy

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Dark Synergy wrote: »

Etharian wrote: »

Time to kill needs to be one of the first things addressed. First game ever that allows Macroed exploits, constant lag and 1 move doing 20k+ dmg ... wtf kind of fun is that ZOS? living for a fraction of a sec without being able to fight back is NOT fun!

Radiant destruction

Focused AIM

tons of other abilities ppl just spam and get 1 shotted.

What are these macros you're speaking of?

I am having trouble figuring out how supposed "macros" would even benefit someone in ESO for attack weaving, pause/delay timing, and generally any kind of fighting . The timing required is very loose and better off being done manually as I could think of a lot of downsides to even trying to "macro" it in the first place and no real gain if someone were inclined to try to for cheating anyway. Wonder if Etharian understands there are more attack types than hotbars, tapping weapon attack (light hit), or holding weapon attack until it fires on its own with a staff (heavy attack)? Partials, mediums, medium weaves, blocking animation/blocking in general weaving, timing to fake someone out of their block, casting as you start dodge rolling, potions inside of a weave, etc. all would not "macro'able" in an efficient fashion and would hamper your combat effectiveness as an average or better player in skill level.

Macros don't benefit in this game, just anyone that dies and they don't know how they died usually screams macros. Given that projectiles have a flight time, it is easy to stack hits to land at the same time and people that are not experienced with how that aspect of the game works naturally scream macros. lol

Dark Synergy

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The ammount of people insta gibbing is insane and the numbers are getting more and more.

Well, as the instagibbing gets worse and people resign themselves to this new meta more and more, I've been noticing the activity levels on the boards decreasing, matching the population bars in game (or lack thereof).

How many more times does the problem need to be pointed out?

True, but i said it last year that Stealth is fundamentally broken in this game, and is the root of the problems with insta-kill builds.

You can easily insta kill someone out of stealth. It's just that stealth makes it so they don't know it's coming and "apply tape to the right mouse button"

It'd be really cool if they changed block to be directional, put some sort of dodge roll timer, and reduced burst damage.
Until then either rek people or get rekt.

noobfury

The OP is right , there is an issue with ttk.

Lets not blur the lines here as there are three things contributing to this imbalance.

First , it's a well known fact that there are players using exploits to cast a sequence of skills in one move that takes less than 2 seconds which results in an instant kill before there is any chance to react. A lot of us know some of these players by name which I will not mention here.

Second are unblockable skills that deal above average damage and are difficult to absorb for most players . Skills like Radiant Destruction ( which I am killed by almost every time) Soul Assault , Shooting Star and a few others and of course Fear the insta win button that doesn't seem to have immunity.

Third , the current state of the PVP game is offense>defense because there is little mechanic that supports mitigation or any kind of absorption in relation to skill damage upward of 20 - 30 k or more. It's gotten to the point where you can survive a hit from a siege weapon easier than you can from a player.

When you have multiple players spamming 20-30k attacks on you at the same time , your not having fun anymore , you begin running on a hampster wheel .

What will people do when the Nirnhoned solution is scaled down ? Maybe that explains why so many people aren't aware of the problem compared to those of us that aren't using it.

It amazes me in this kind of unbalanced climate that people actually complain about shields or blocking or how nothing is wrong with heavy armor.