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Console: Why no option to see the damage we do?
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nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Sallington wrote: »Saltypretzels wrote: »
A bit extreme don't you think? Numbers are not the only way to tell if you are doing damage, though it is a traditional way.
It is not stupid. Nor is it dumb.
Nah, it is stupid. The dungeons at the end of the game are hard enough and with enough mobs that you need to know your capabilities. I've played with plenty of people on PC who did not use FTC, and they were almost always the reason the group failed.
Exactly this. How are you supposed to know if your DPS is crap or not when you have more than 1 person attack the target?
"I guess my DPS is fine. Must be someone else's fault we keep wiping."
-Everyone in the group
Some like @Amsel_McKay think the game should be more casual than that. Unfortunately, the game breeds competitive gameplay along with the need to survive difficult encounters in end-game group content. Hardly fitting for the casual environment.
ESO is not difficult AT ALL... 48 hour raids in PoG or waking the sleeper for the first time was hard... ESO is too easy... that is why everyone is willing to kill for new content in hopes they release something challenging.
@Amsel_McKay So, because you find it easy, others must also find it easy. Cool story bro. I guess we should apply this to the rest of the world standards while we're at it.2 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Sallington wrote: »Saltypretzels wrote: »
A bit extreme don't you think? Numbers are not the only way to tell if you are doing damage, though it is a traditional way.
It is not stupid. Nor is it dumb.
Nah, it is stupid. The dungeons at the end of the game are hard enough and with enough mobs that you need to know your capabilities. I've played with plenty of people on PC who did not use FTC, and they were almost always the reason the group failed.
Exactly this. How are you supposed to know if your DPS is crap or not when you have more than 1 person attack the target?
"I guess my DPS is fine. Must be someone else's fault we keep wiping."
-Everyone in the group
Sorry was to busy looking at my stats and numbers to get out of the red...
So I guess ZOS was right with their decision, since multitasking is too complicated for consoles.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I can't tell if I am enlightened or not on PS4 except at logon because you can't hover your cursor over
xp or cp bar info like on PC.
At least that I have found as of yet, maybe there is a cursor mode have to look harder.
If you are enlightened, the unfilled portion of the bar is shaded slightly blue, or green, or red.
There is no way to see how much enlightenment you have left, however, as far as I know.
Thanks I see that now, just wish there was a hover tooltip to show amounts.
Not looking for much more than that although more is better. lol
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Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Problem is, in agame with freedom of choice with so many skill options, armor options, set items, stats etc. The fact you have no indicator of what actually is better or worse makes these choices frustrating rather than useful.
Lets be honest, the only vision ZOS had with their UI is 'how little effort can we put into it and get away with it'.
The immersion excuse is along the same lines as the Templar bugs which recently got relabeled as 'features'.
All that said, I actually don't think the scrolling combat text is any real use, I have had it forever and actually don't even notice it and keep telling myself I really should turn it off. The dps meter is far more helpful and out the way so not immersion breaking. Course that is no help to consoles as they cannot have that either.
I agree - skip the floating numbers and add a DPS meter.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Problem is, in agame with freedom of choice with so many skill options, armor options, set items, stats etc. The fact you have no indicator of what actually is better or worse makes these choices frustrating rather than useful.
Lets be honest, the only vision ZOS had with their UI is 'how little effort can we put into it and get away with it'.
The immersion excuse is along the same lines as the Templar bugs which recently got relabeled as 'features'.
All that said, I actually don't think the scrolling combat text is any real use, I have had it forever and actually don't even notice it and keep telling myself I really should turn it off. The dps meter is far more helpful and out the way so not immersion breaking. Course that is no help to consoles as they cannot have that either.
I agree - skip the floating numbers and add a DPS meter.
Or add the option to have one, both, or neither?0 -
rb2001✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Problem is, in agame with freedom of choice with so many skill options, armor options, set items, stats etc. The fact you have no indicator of what actually is better or worse makes these choices frustrating rather than useful.
Lets be honest, the only vision ZOS had with their UI is 'how little effort can we put into it and get away with it'.
The immersion excuse is along the same lines as the Templar bugs which recently got relabeled as 'features'.
All that said, I actually don't think the scrolling combat text is any real use, I have had it forever and actually don't even notice it and keep telling myself I really should turn it off. The dps meter is far more helpful and out the way so not immersion breaking. Course that is no help to consoles as they cannot have that either.
I think you bring up a good point here.
While I am championing "learn in game like you do in real life", that requires the in game world to support that (things to follow sense and corroborate other findings). ESO doesn't always do this, and it's not realistic in many ways to begin with (e.g. a sword is a sword, in real life, if I hit you with it, you are going to bleed or die or lose something).
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Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Problem is, in agame with freedom of choice with so many skill options, armor options, set items, stats etc. The fact you have no indicator of what actually is better or worse makes these choices frustrating rather than useful.
Lets be honest, the only vision ZOS had with their UI is 'how little effort can we put into it and get away with it'.
The immersion excuse is along the same lines as the Templar bugs which recently got relabeled as 'features'.
All that said, I actually don't think the scrolling combat text is any real use, I have had it forever and actually don't even notice it and keep telling myself I really should turn it off. The dps meter is far more helpful and out the way so not immersion breaking. Course that is no help to consoles as they cannot have that either.
I agree - skip the floating numbers and add a DPS meter.
Or add the option to have one, both, or neither?
No the problem is PC and the game have suffered enough because of consoles... You bought a console so you get a limited UI and game stop asking for features that take away from real content and expansions.
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Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭Dimebagd88 wrote: »Dimebagd88 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Thing is, everyone plays games different. Especially in an mmo, there will always be those who want to min-max. To say they would have more fun playing a certain way is kind of ignorant. All in all, it should at least be an option.
Min-maxer, theorycrafter, hardcore... they have been branded with many titles. He's right. When you introduce MMO elements to the game, you bring that crowd in.
Is that inherently a bad thing? I mean, it's not going to affect someone's experience who wants to immerse themselves. Likely, they'll group up with different guilds, groups, players, etc and play the game their way.
It is not inherently bad at all. But certain varieties of those players can be especially...."insistent" that others players play in a similar way that they do. Mandatory sharing of DPS, gear score, that type of thing. It is certainly fine if those mandatory checks are within the mutual consensus of their own circles, but the precise reason hardcores and min-maxers have the elitist stereotype is because of many of them are willing to push that ideal onto others.
It is for that reason that we do not need to make certain tools to measure and share those quantities so openly available in the base game. Or at least, not without proper safeguards. Even toggles only work so much with societal stigma.
But that is only for certain features. Like DPS meters and gear inspection. Things like small, non-sharable floating numbers are up to debate.
However, I am of the mindset that those numbers are not needed as urgently as many believe (unless you are into min-maxing) but other general indicators in the UI would be helpful. Small messages in the corner of the screen saying a I made a critical hit, for example, would be a nice addition. Or even a set small indicators like "good", "very good", or "a little late".
2 -
Kalifas✭✭✭
I wouldn't have said it as flamboyant as you. But I agree, once console bugs and stuff get ironed out. Content needs to start coming out asap. PC players have waited long enough.Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Problem is, in agame with freedom of choice with so many skill options, armor options, set items, stats etc. The fact you have no indicator of what actually is better or worse makes these choices frustrating rather than useful.
Lets be honest, the only vision ZOS had with their UI is 'how little effort can we put into it and get away with it'.
The immersion excuse is along the same lines as the Templar bugs which recently got relabeled as 'features'.
All that said, I actually don't think the scrolling combat text is any real use, I have had it forever and actually don't even notice it and keep telling myself I really should turn it off. The dps meter is far more helpful and out the way so not immersion breaking. Course that is no help to consoles as they cannot have that either.
I agree - skip the floating numbers and add a DPS meter.
Or add the option to have one, both, or neither?
No the problem is PC and the game have suffered enough because of consoles... You bought a console so you get a limited UI and game stop asking for features that take away from real content and expansions.
An Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!0 -
Dimebagd88 wrote: »Dimebagd88 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Thing is, everyone plays games different. Especially in an mmo, there will always be those who want to min-max. To say they would have more fun playing a certain way is kind of ignorant. All in all, it should at least be an option.
Min-maxer, theorycrafter, hardcore... they have been branded with many titles. He's right. When you introduce MMO elements to the game, you bring that crowd in.
Is that inherently a bad thing? I mean, it's not going to affect someone's experience who wants to immerse themselves. Likely, they'll group up with different guilds, groups, players, etc and play the game their way.
It is not inherently bad at all. But certain varieties of those players can be especially...."insistent" that others players play in a similar way that they do. Mandatory sharing of DPS, gear score, that type of thing. It is certainly fine if those mandatory checks are within the mutual consensus of their own circles, but the precise reason hardcores and min-maxers have the elitist stereotype is because of many of them are willing to push that ideal onto others.
It is for that reason that we do not need to make certain tools to measure and share those quantities so openly available in the base game. Or at least, not without proper safeguards. Even toggles only work so much with societal stigma.
But that is only for certain features. Like DPS meters and gear inspection. Things like small, non-sharable floating numbers are up to debate.
However, I am of the mindset that those numbers are not needed as urgently as many believe (unless you are into min-maxing) but other general indicators in the UI would be helpful. Small messages in the corner of the screen saying a I made a critical hit, for example, would be a nice addition. Or even a set small indicators like "good", "very good", or "a little late".
Well of course you will have that small group of people who think they are better than everyone else, belittle others, etc. The solution to that is to simply avoid them. When I played FFXIV, I knew if a certain group or guild would suit me or not, and based my interactions with others on my judgement of whether or not I'd fit their play style. In the end, like you said, throw some visual stuff in there, give a way to measure your DPS, as an option of course, and I believe this would satisfy most.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dimebagd88 wrote: »Dimebagd88 wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Thing is, everyone plays games different. Especially in an mmo, there will always be those who want to min-max. To say they would have more fun playing a certain way is kind of ignorant. All in all, it should at least be an option.
Min-maxer, theorycrafter, hardcore... they have been branded with many titles. He's right. When you introduce MMO elements to the game, you bring that crowd in.
Is that inherently a bad thing? I mean, it's not going to affect someone's experience who wants to immerse themselves. Likely, they'll group up with different guilds, groups, players, etc and play the game their way.
It is not inherently bad at all. But certain varieties of those players can be especially...."insistent" that others players play in a similar way that they do. Mandatory sharing of DPS, gear score, that type of thing. It is certainly fine if those mandatory checks are within the mutual consensus of their own circles, but the precise reason hardcores and min-maxers have the elitist stereotype is because of many of them are willing to push that ideal onto others.
It is for that reason that we do not need to make certain tools to measure and share those quantities so openly available in the base game. Or at least, not without proper safeguards. Even toggles only work so much with societal stigma.
But that is only for certain features. Like DPS meters and gear inspection. Things like small, non-sharable floating numbers are up to debate.
However, I am of the mindset that those numbers are not needed as urgently as many believe (unless you are into min-maxing) but other general indicators in the UI would be helpful. Small messages in the corner of the screen saying a I made a critical hit, for example, would be a nice addition. Or even a set small indicators like "good", "very good", or "a little late".
@Zorrashi The same elitism can emerge in different ways. As in that one derp that got a few threads locked earlier saying he kicks anyone out of the group who doesn't use a mic. The same type of person can also be demanding that you use a certain set of skills in the dungeon rather than what you're accustomed to.
Elitism is, and always will be, present in these games.0 -
Naivefanboi✭✭✭✭Rofl muh immurszzzions. Meanwhile even witcher 3 has tiny lil dos numbers ....
surely we couldnt make this an OPTIONAL ui feature? Nope woukd ruin the game ...lol0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Have fun trying to top the leaderboards w/out having a clue what your actual DPS is, or even if your abilities and passives are working correctly.
: )0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The kicker here is they can split the damn difference. Presently, you regear, you respec, you reAttrib, you reCP...unless the difference is phenomenal, you have no real way of knowing what effect one thing had vs the previous setup
With the mobs died/didn't die argument, the problem arises when they didn't die. Without some kind of indication (not that the super Death Recaps telling me to drink a Stamina potion aren't super helpful) of how to improve something, the mobs will like just keep not dying.
It becomes a shot in the dark ~ a guessing game. May as well send you into the fray with random gear and random skills and see how it goes.
And confirming sets/CP's/Passives/Skills work/don't work, impossible with the fail/pass scenario provided.
People can want to get better without wanting to be l33t. Without feedback, that's not so easy to achieve.
In the standalone's, practicing your skills made them improve, or you could seek out trainers. Lots of games have methods by which you could rate your efficiency/effectiveness and make adjustments. Doesn't have to specifically be DPS, but some kind of indicator where you stand given your current setup, and perhaps a few recommendations on how to improve it.
There should be multiple ways to accomplish the goal, whatever it may be. You have to have a way to refine those methods though.
Far as I can see most of the time, the only number I notice a major change in each time is the one indicating how much gold I have.
EDIT: Addition To make this worse is the background computation that happens (or doesn't) regarding your ultimate output (Not even DPS - just one kind of attack does this much) is already buried, cryptic, at best, and so convoluted you can barely tell the end result.
Now you add or take away passives (such as in CP system) and the only consistent info you're provided - SD/WD or the borderline useless tooltip doesn't change an ounce.
So is that a broken passive? The wrong passive? Is the modifier computed internally?
There's no way to know if it did anything, given the current setup.
I'd be happy with some kind of background console showing "this passive modifier applied" even if it didn't show the amount. At least you'd have the illusion that something worked.
Edited by Merlin13KAGL on June 11, 2015 6:19PMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS2 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭Zenimax just said it is something they are considering on the Reddit AMA:
http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/39gv5r/the_elder_scroll_online_tamriel_unlimited_team/cs384dr1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rook_Master wrote: »Zenimax just said it is something they are considering on the Reddit AMA:
http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/39gv5r/the_elder_scroll_online_tamriel_unlimited_team/cs384dr
At least they are looking into it. They should maybe take a look at how FTC handles these issues for buffs / debuffs, or Combat Cloud in the case of combat text.
There are some pretty great examples already floating out there for non-intrusive ways to include information into the UI.0 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I wouldn't have said it as flamboyant as you. But I agree, once console bugs and stuff get ironed out. Content needs to start coming out asap. PC players have waited long enough.Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Did the mob die? Then you did enough damage... Did you die? You did not do enough damage... same with healing.
@Amsel_McKay So by that logic, why is there even a tooltip damage shown?
ESO had this vision when making the UI. The tooltip is there to you can see how much that number changes by skill level or level, so you get an idea. If people stopped worrying about number and just played the game would be more fun. If you beat the dungeon life is good who cares if you could eek out %1 more damage.
Problem is, in agame with freedom of choice with so many skill options, armor options, set items, stats etc. The fact you have no indicator of what actually is better or worse makes these choices frustrating rather than useful.
Lets be honest, the only vision ZOS had with their UI is 'how little effort can we put into it and get away with it'.
The immersion excuse is along the same lines as the Templar bugs which recently got relabeled as 'features'.
All that said, I actually don't think the scrolling combat text is any real use, I have had it forever and actually don't even notice it and keep telling myself I really should turn it off. The dps meter is far more helpful and out the way so not immersion breaking. Course that is no help to consoles as they cannot have that either.
I agree - skip the floating numbers and add a DPS meter.
Or add the option to have one, both, or neither?
No the problem is PC and the game have suffered enough because of consoles... You bought a console so you get a limited UI and game stop asking for features that take away from real content and expansions.
LoL.Edited by PBpsy on June 11, 2015 6:28PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0
