They managed to mess up dungeons?

Brasseurfb16_ESO

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

This may sound stupid but how do I heavy attack with my resto staff? i have one equipped so I can do the mana regeneration just don't know how to heavy attack with it on console
Tutorial said Heavy attack was R2, but to even attack with the staff you have to hold R2 down don't you?
Or am I constantly HA-ing :L

I don't play on console, but if you hold the attack button you chain heavy attacks (except with bows), for light attacks you have to tap the attack button.

SplendidAngharad94

Ah right, so basically whenever I'm attacking the enemy with the long beam for an extended period that's a Heavy Attack with the staff?
You see I thought that was just a Normal Attack as I didn't think just tapping the R2 button did anything with it, all this time I've been Constant Heavy Attacking
No wonder I stun every enemy

Faulgor

I PUG every day as a healer (V14) and we don't need longer than 15-20 minutes, depending on the dungeon. Dungeons are incredibly easy when everyone knows what to do. Some dungeons don't even need a tank, or a healer off-tanking is enough.

I love healing in dungeons, especially on my Orc Nightblade (lol) as with my Templar it's just too easy.

But the group finder is broken, I'll give you that.

rb2001

Nathano wrote: »

Dungeons in this game are great fun. You just need to get out of the mentality of other MMOs where the tank will gather every mob and noone else gets attacked.

ESO is more realistic in that the battles are like organised chaos :-) The tank should pick up the most dangerous mobs but it is impossible for them to pick up everything, so the other members need to deal with them. Also everyone in the group needs to understand how to block/dodge/interrupt otherwise the healer won't be able to keep up with the damage.

The first few dungeons are always going to be difficult because healers and tanks haven't got that many utilities to perform their role well, but it will improve in the latter levels. Also since the console versions have only just been released you need to give it time for everyone to adjust to the new play style. The same thing happened with PC, people complained about the difficulty but the got used to it and now it's pretty easy.

I really like how you said this.

nathan_bri

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

These are low level dungeons though, like the first ones you unlock and they seem so badly designed, every other MMO i've played dungeons have been doable with randoms, yet not this one, it's so awkward
I'm not enjoying any of the choices they made with this game, because they feel so backward and stupid

Right now, you can clear Deadmines in WoW with three dps and no healer. It's a joke. That does not set the standard for ESO. ESO is different. You have to have actual skill:

1. Tank -- Knowing how to properly taunt and not over-taunt

2. Tank -- Taunting the one boss mob which can wreck the healer (rarely do the other mobs need to be tanked by the tank)

3. Everyone -- Get out of the stupid on the group ASAP. Dodge-roll out if you have to.

4. Everyone -- Focus on the enemy healers first; bash them to interrupt them if they try to heal their fellow mobs; fail to do that and you could easily run out of resources on the fight because the enemies keep getting healed up.

5. Everyone -- Don't go into a dungeon at level 10 just because you can. You will be ineffective. You might want to wait until level 14, when you have a few more Skill Points spent in useful things.

6. Everyone -- Don't think you can split your Skill Point interests this early and do well in a dungeon. You cannot. Be a healer or be a tank or be DPS. Don't try to do both. You won't be very good at it until you have many more Skill Points and have leveled your armor and weapon skills much higher if you are doing two at once.

7. Healer -- You can only cast so many heals because of limitations on Magicka and Magicka regen. Are you wearing all light armor? If not, you are doing it wrong. Are you using Healing Springs a lot? If not, you are doing it wrong because you did not properly level up your Restoration Staff skill line in time.

That's just a small bit of information that you need in order to do well in dungeons, even the start ones.

SplendidAngharad94

I don't expect it to be easy aha, I guess my frustration was mainly with group members who weren't dodging any attacks
I was even saying through the mic, "If you see red circles or marks on the floor, try to roll out of them"
Which was followed with, "Why is the healer dodge rolling constantly" at which point they'd get hit by multiple attacks
In my first group I was the only one actively dodging attacks, even if it made me look stupid it worked
Finished the dungeon now
I may have been too quick to complain as with a full group, who took their time, supported each other and worked well together it was a lot of fun
Hopefully the start of a lot of good experiences

SplendidAngharad94

Also, I suppose I've come to expect all dungeons to be like WoW
And when they're different and require some actual co-operation, skill, and work it confuses me? Oh well, now I know what to expect I'll not complain about it
They're not badly designed, they're just a hell of a lot harder than the average MMO dungeon
Dreading what a raid'll be like haha

Fhaerron

Find friends / guilds and play with them.

This game is not a 'face roll' trough dungeons like in games as WoW, Rift, SW:ToR etc.
Since you're new here on the forums I'm assuming you're on console. There are a lot of new players there, also the usual 'console peasant' hasn't really played an MMO like this before (FF is a quite different one). Even on PC there is a high change to wipe with people that don't know what they are doing.

Again, find/make friends or search for a guild on here and use the party chat on PS4 or Xone and communicate with them. Will go a lot easier and will be much more fun.

BuggeX

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

I don't expect it to be easy aha, I guess my frustration was mainly with group members who weren't dodging any attacks
I was even saying through the mic, "If you see red circles or marks on the floor, try to roll out of them"
Which was followed with, "Why is the healer dodge rolling constantly" at which point they'd get hit by multiple attacks
In my first group I was the only one actively dodging attacks, even if it made me look stupid it worked
Finished the dungeon now
I may have been too quick to complain as with a full group, who took their time, supported each other and worked well together it was a lot of fun
Hopefully the start of a lot of good experiences

This my be the Problem in the first few dungs, where its not necessery to doge somthing. But just w8 to later dungs, where even the tank get 1shooted if he fail to block or doge.

leshpar

I have a strong feeling that the OP expects this to be WoW. This is not wow, this is ESO. Healing works very well, and is a lot different from healing in any other game. Tanking to me doesn't sound very fun, but I never really enjoyed tanking in any game. There is a single target taunt available at level 1. There are also healing spells available at level 1 (grand healing and rushed ceremony).

SplendidAngharad94

If you actually took the time to read my other posts Leshpar you'd notice I did expect it to be like WoW
Yet I'm now adjusting my expectations to whatever this is
It's good, but it's new

Durban

Wait till you try the veteran versions of the dungeons

pecheckler

There are so many false statements in the original post I don't even know where to start.

Syntse

Now that the first one is done at least once. Not many know at that point of the game that you really can do Fungal Grotto and Spindleclutch dungeons too from other alliances. Just get group and wayshrine or port to them, they should be now visible in the map in other faction zones.

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

Dreading what a raid'll be like haha

By that time plenty of experience so it's mainly just teamwork and everyone knowing their roles. Couple times done trial in a pug too and it was somewhat hassle but not as much as early dungeons with pugs. Calm good leader will walk through any pug of trial.

nathan_bri

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

Also, I suppose I've come to expect all dungeons to be like WoW
And when they're different and require some actual co-operation, skill, and work it confuses me? Oh well, now I know what to expect I'll not complain about it
They're not badly designed, they're just a hell of a lot harder than the average MMO dungeon
Dreading what a raid'll be like haha

Right. As people learn how ESO mechanics work, they will know to get out of the stupid and do the other necessary things. It helps if someone is there to patiently explain things after repeated wipes on things. That's the norm. Go with plenty of soul shards if you can.

I find ESO dungeons to be so much more fun than the ones in WoW, Rift, SWTOR and FFXIV. You are no longer playing the 2D UI, but are actively engaged in the 3D world, even as a healer.

remedios17

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

I play MMORPG's for the dungeons and raids, and here I just played my first dungeon; The Banishing Cells and jesus christ, they're just not good, not at all
The biggest mistake they made was to not have a dungeon finder that automatically teleports you to the dungeon when you finally manage to get into a group
The second mistake is that they haven't really made it obvious there is a group finder, so you're lucky to find anyone to dungeon with
The third problem is that enemies hit far too hard, and people listing themselves as tanks don't tank, but just hit a single enemy and think they is doing good
The fourth problem is they messed up roles; why have Healer, Tank and DPS available if Healers are severely limited in their abilities because they don't work like Healing spells should in a game? There's no abilities at low level to generate aggro as a Tank
The dungeon was an absolute cluster-*** of bad design choices and it just stupefies me how bad their decision making skills are
They shouldn't have tried making classes so awkward because it's highly detrimental to the PvE group content
Instead of utilising their roles everyone just goes full DPS because trying to be the designated healer ends with you out of mana after like 5 heals.... because spells cost that much
Severely disappointed, I thought if I struggled through the awful solo content it'd open up and dungeons and raids would be fun little past-times
As it turns out, nope, ZoS, you've done an awful job with this MMO, you seem more concerned about the damn single player experience than anything else
I cannot believe I wasted £49.99 on this, it just feels unfinished and [snip]
Is there anyway to improve dungeons? Like will they be better once I reach a higher level etc.? Or are they consistently bad and are groups consistently bad?

I think you are overreacting. The first dungeon experience for newbies generally goes down like this, because no one has a clue about anything.

Teleporting instantly when you are in group? Wow that sounds bad. What if I am in the middle of clearing out my inventory or getting repairs?

The second skill in 1h+shield is a taunt skill.

An experienced group of veterans can clear a veteran dungeon in 10 mins, so yeah, as you level up and learn things, things do get better - but getting all pissed after 1 dungeon doesn't really help.

[edited to remove quote]

bertenburnyb16_ESO

lol normal dungeons are so faceroll easy, [snip]
on the group finder mess, yes your right its frakked, atleast at pc we have zonechat

[edited for baiting]

Syntse

remedios17 wrote: »

I think you are overreacting. The first dungeon experience for newbies generally goes down like this, because no one has a clue about anything.

I think you do not bother to read any of the replies made.

It becomes kinda funny when someone replies to first post in a thread where OP has already reverted and said it's actually fun now that he has done it again with a better group.

P3ZZL3

Durban wrote: »

Wait till you try the veteran versions of the dungeons

Wait till you get to DSA and vDSA

jrgray93

This basically says it all. I guess healing might be more difficult on the console, but you're still dealing with a large amount of brand new players that have no idea what they are doing.

Gorthax

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

These are low level dungeons though, like the first ones you unlock and they seem so badly designed, every other MMO i've played dungeons have been doable with randoms, yet not this one, it's so awkward
I'm not enjoying any of the choices they made with this game, because they feel so backward and stupid

You are trying to dungeons with a crap ton of people who have no clue how ESO works and expect to win lol silly silly the dungeons are fun once you know how to play eso. Forget everything you learned especially the "tri class" stuff. ESo is ESO. It is not your traditional mmo.

Merlin13KAGL

Yeah, group dungeons are not intended to be the walk-in-the-park that delves, world, and public's are.

I'm assuming you're between level 10-15.

If you got your ass handed to you first run, it means they (ZoS, the mobs) were doing it right. Don't expect people at those levels (in most cases) to know what those roles are, let alone stick to them.

In the grand scheme of things, group dungeons are one of the few things they actually did pretty well.

Regarding aggro, Pierce armor is the 2nd skill in the line, don't overtaunt (once per 10-15 seconds).

You're getting started. It takes a while to find good groups to consistently run with, you'll have to learn mechanics, synergy, and different skills as you advance, but you'll find the dungeons to be one of the best parts of the game.

Once you've nailed the 1-50 versions, then you'll roll over and set foot in your first V1 group dungeon.

If you think the mobs hit hard and role requirements are AFU now...wait until you get to experience that for the first time.

The dungeons are actually fairly well set up to help you learn your group play. Help your fellow characters and you'll find a dynamic that works. Then the 'rest of the world' becomes a cake walk.

septvestige

OP: I feel for you. But please wait a little until give your final verdict! Your skills, and even your PUG's skills will be better as you level and get your hands on better gear, unlock skills, find new builds wich will be better suited your playstyle.

I only played since a few months ago I taught a lot of time that I finally found my build how I want to play this game and I still changed that a lot of times.
This game has a lot of flaws but it has its positive side too. I don't think dungeon difficulty is among the faults.

Let me tell you something for example: Once I tried to do a veteran dungeon with PUGs all day long. We failed, or I failed every time than I got a group who knew each other. They were guild mates I think. They just needed a fourth groupmember at the evening hours. We sweeped trough the dungeon like a storm. Actually at the end they were complaining about that we didn't finish it faster but a boss was like 5 minutes.
What was the difference? My role was a healer. You realized healers life in Tamriel is hard. I wasn't better in healing. I didn't change any of my skills. The key was everyone did its job, everyone was geared, skilled and experienced enough to do the veteran level dungeon. Those guys found the whole thing too easy. Seriously there should be this kind of difficulty level to entertain them too. I told you I struggled all day with that dungeon with different groups. With those who failed it we wasn't prepared, did it wrong. It wasn't the dungeon difficulty. It was us doing the wrong thing. The wrong way.

Let me tell you my oppinion why you failed. It's not the game designers fault you will see.

- Your party didn't have high enough attributes for the dungeon difficulty level. There is a HP minimum where you don't get 1hit killed on that level. If you did 1 hit killed your build is wrong It's time to rethink it.
You can increase your attributes or armor, resistances not just by having better quality gear but by using armor glyps as enchants on every armor piece, weapon glyps to increase your damage output, using food buff, stock up on potions. Don't just wait for the heals sometimes drink a healing potion yourself. There are potions not just healing you but giving you utility too, buff, or giving you immovability etc.


-- You party didn't unlock the classes or roles necessary skills they picked. Tank needs Aggro generating, damage reduction, DPS needs AOE and magicka or stamina gaining or generating, and healer needs magicka.
Yes resource managment is a factor in this game. You have to learn that. After you do everything will be much easier.

Everyone claims they are so experinced in other mmos still I see them spread out, leaving the healer undefended, standing still in aoe red circles, tanking without damage reduction or even without shield. Most people thinks if the group wiped the only to blaim is the healer because their role is to keep them alive. This is stupid. In order to succeed everyone has to do their part including staying alive and if you can't stay alive without someone others help than the problem is on your side. Healer is only for helping you not to correct your stupid mistakes.

- Your party is not fammiliar with the combat system in ESO yet. Some advice from me:

- Use crowd controll! A stunned monster can't hit you.
- Block! Even without a shield your taken damage will be drastically less if you block a heavy attack. Moreover when you block a heavy attack your opponent will be stunned for a few secs.
- If a monster using tricks like charging attacks you should charge up a heavy attack and hit! It will make the monster prone.
- Use interrupts! Everyone can use interrupt not just tanks and even tanks don't use it just trying to soak up damage and worst trying to kill bosses themselves it's not their role.
- Use synergies you have to remap that key to a place when you can push the right button when the opportunity comes.
- Watch your resources! Don't dodge unnecessarily! It's hard to learn this after GW2 or other MMO's. Dodge if you must only! Or if you really really like dodges than design your build like that. Have high stamina, high stamina regen etc.
- Is there a boss skill that one hit kills you every single time no matter how bad you stocked up with gear or buffed? Ever thaught about reflect that huge attack?

Of yourse there will be a lot of tricks to learn mabey you invent your own solutions but when you say the difficulty is not well designed think about those who already knows what you don't yet and they need challange too!
Learn the basics, read guides! Get better! And when you ready try it again! And don't start with higher level dungeons or veteran dungeons!

PBpsy

You are wrong. The dungeons are one of the few things that ZOS got right.
The only problem with them is that there aren't a crapload more of vet dungeons. Because.e "after consoles'.

Valije

It is nice to see the OP tried again, succeded and, most important, had fun.

We all started that way and it was hard (specially for those who started with stamina back in the day) but as most people said the key is learning the mechanics.

Some tips no one mentioned and we take for granted:

- Eat or drink at the start. Drinking was useless util the last big patch, but now are great to sustainability. Most people, myself included, preffer blue drinks for dungeons.
- Enchant rings/pendant with magicka cost reduction. Start with one and add another if you need it. They will make a big difference.
- The dungeon will have the level of the group leader when you enter there. Keep in mind you will only get XP if you are within 5 levels with the leader.
- Use crafted sets. They will be hard to find in consoles since no one have anything researched, but when they are available make yourself a 5 piece seducer . Start researching now if you are not doing it already!!!
Edit: since there will be some high lvl players that ported their accounts, this will be no problem at all.

Later on the game you will find that the veteran version of the dungeons are way harder and boss dynamics different. Then you get the Dragon Star Arena and the trials, wich are even harder.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

I play MMORPG's for the dungeons and raids, and here I just played my first dungeon; The Banishing Cells and jesus christ, they're just not good, not at all
The biggest mistake they made was to not have a dungeon finder that automatically teleports you to the dungeon when you finally manage to get into a group
The second mistake is that they haven't really made it obvious there is a group finder, so you're lucky to find anyone to dungeon with
The third problem is that enemies hit far too hard, and people listing themselves as tanks don't tank, but just hit a single enemy and think they is doing good
The fourth problem is they messed up roles; why have Healer, Tank and DPS available if Healers are severely limited in their abilities because they don't work like Healing spells should in a game? There's no abilities at low level to generate aggro as a Tank
The dungeon was an absolute cluster-*** of bad design choices and it just stupefies me how bad their decision making skills are
They shouldn't have tried making classes so awkward because it's highly detrimental to the PvE group content
Instead of utilising their roles everyone just goes full DPS because trying to be the designated healer ends with you out of mana after like 5 heals.... because spells cost that much
Severely disappointed, I thought if I struggled through the awful solo content it'd open up and dungeons and raids would be fun little past-times
As it turns out, nope, ZoS, you've done an awful job with this MMO, you seem more concerned about the damn single player experience than anything else
I cannot believe I wasted £49.99 on this, it just feels unfinished and [snip]
Is there anyway to improve dungeons? Like will they be better once I reach a higher level etc.? Or are they consistently bad and are groups consistently bad?

Did you seriously just say dungeons are too hard?

[edited to remove quote]

SplendidAngharad94

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

I play MMORPG's for the dungeons and raids, and here I just played my first dungeon; The Banishing Cells and jesus christ, they're just not good, not at all
The biggest mistake they made was to not have a dungeon finder that automatically teleports you to the dungeon when you finally manage to get into a group
The second mistake is that they haven't really made it obvious there is a group finder, so you're lucky to find anyone to dungeon with
The third problem is that enemies hit far too hard, and people listing themselves as tanks don't tank, but just hit a single enemy and think they is doing good
The fourth problem is they messed up roles; why have Healer, Tank and DPS available if Healers are severely limited in their abilities because they don't work like Healing spells should in a game? There's no abilities at low level to generate aggro as a Tank
The dungeon was an absolute cluster-*** of bad design choices and it just stupefies me how bad their decision making skills are
They shouldn't have tried making classes so awkward because it's highly detrimental to the PvE group content
Instead of utilising their roles everyone just goes full DPS because trying to be the designated healer ends with you out of mana after like 5 heals.... because spells cost that much
Severely disappointed, I thought if I struggled through the awful solo content it'd open up and dungeons and raids would be fun little past-times
As it turns out, nope, ZoS, you've done an awful job with this MMO, you seem more concerned about the damn single player experience than anything else
I cannot believe I wasted £49.99 on this, it just feels unfinished and [snip]
Is there anyway to improve dungeons? Like will they be better once I reach a higher level etc.? Or are they consistently bad and are groups consistently bad?

Did you seriously just say dungeons are too hard?

Did you seriously not read past the OP to see my opinion had changed? [snip]
And I'm already researching traits aha, it's just a shame it takes five hours a piece
That part is to the pleasant poster above you. [snip]

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

[edited to remove quote]

Granz

This is not WoW where everyone gets something with a mindless dungeon run and you watch for a MOD you have to tell you to do something. You need to have some skill. Blocking / dodging is one of them. This is more hardcore of a MMO then what is out there now. Wait till you get to the VR levels. They are 100 of the normal levels. You need focus to play this game.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

EDIT button is your friend.

Forcedchaos

Forcedchaos wrote: »

I love the game don't get me wrong I even subbed but, I just did the first dungeon as well and it was a cluster**** as you say. I have played a healer in more MMO's than I can count and with this game I just don't feel like dealing with the headache. I'm actually thinking about re rolling today a DPS.

I take back all of this that I said earlier. I just did the dungeon with a group and we all had mics. It was a blast and we finished it no problem. If you go into a dungeon and a player doesn't have a mic, LEAVE!