They managed to mess up dungeons?

SplendidAngharad94

I play MMORPG's for the dungeons and raids, and here I just played my first dungeon; The Banishing Cells and jesus christ, they're just not good, not at all
The biggest mistake they made was to not have a dungeon finder that automatically teleports you to the dungeon when you finally manage to get into a group
The second mistake is that they haven't really made it obvious there is a group finder, so you're lucky to find anyone to dungeon with
The third problem is that enemies hit far too hard, and people listing themselves as tanks don't tank, but just hit a single enemy and think they is doing good
The fourth problem is they messed up roles; why have Healer, Tank and DPS available if Healers are severely limited in their abilities because they don't work like Healing spells should in a game? There's no abilities at low level to generate aggro as a Tank
The dungeon was an absolute cluster-*** of bad design choices and it just stupefies me how bad their decision making skills are
They shouldn't have tried making classes so awkward because it's highly detrimental to the PvE group content
Instead of utilising their roles everyone just goes full DPS because trying to be the designated healer ends with you out of mana after like 5 heals.... because spells cost that much
Severely disappointed, I thought if I struggled through the awful solo content it'd open up and dungeons and raids would be fun little past-times
As it turns out, nope, ZoS, you've done an awful job with this MMO, you seem more concerned about the damn single player experience than anything else
I cannot believe I wasted £49.99 on this, it just feels unfinished and [snip]
Is there anyway to improve dungeons? Like will they be better once I reach a higher level etc.? Or are they consistently bad and are groups consistently bad?

[edited for bashing]

Julianos

This is not your regular MMO you have limited resources especially on low level and you need to use your blocking and dodge roll effectivly you need to avoid ground effects and you need to learn boss mechanics what they do and whats your anti move you cant just stand and spam magics around. You need to learn before judge and really pve is so easy on this game after learn the basics.

Also there is no agro generating on this game tank need to apply taunt every 15 sec on the target

Alcast

I guess you are playing on console?

Well, if you go in with random noobs it will be ALWAYS a disaster no matter what Online game you are playing.

Its a l2p issue. not because dungeons are bad

And I am still afraid they will lower the difficulty levels of dungeons because of console. (Reaction time etc is just crap on console)

On PC, dungeons are already far too easy, but that mainly also due to Championpoints and people playing same content for like 8 Months thanks to console.

I just hope they create a difficulty level for console and one for PC. Or the game will go to crap 100%

Tankqull

at low lvl the biggest issue is that you have absolutly no clue about whats going on (please do not feel offended we all started that way) tanks have no clue that the first sword and board ability is a taunt that taunts in this game must not be spammed as they enrage the mob if used to often, you are having the most horrible equip possible and so on and on.

dungeons are getting better with every lvl and ability you gather and the knowledge you aquire by playing.

JD2013

You can in fact teleport to the group. Every dungeon has a Wayshrine to meet up at inside.

Group finder on console is rather buried in the menus and I agree that could do with a little tweaking.

As for enemies hitting too hard, you have to optimise your skills a little. Try out new skills if something isn't working. Co-ordinate with your group. Dodge, stay out of red circles and AOE.

Syntse

Seems you went in with very inexperienced people who just have been doing the solo content until then.

At lvl 15 where this BC is usually done the group does have the needed skills if they have build their role. Eg DK or Templar with 2H is not tank. The fight system is different from other MMOs in ESO as tank job is mainly aggro the biggest threats and maybe root the other while dps kills them quickly.

I'm sure you'll have better experiences from dungeons once time progresses. Non-Vet ones doesn't require too much to actually pass them. Vet ones you start to need to know some tactics too and voice comms become more important.

SplendidAngharad94

These are low level dungeons though, like the first ones you unlock and they seem so badly designed, every other MMO i've played dungeons have been doable with randoms, yet not this one, it's so awkward
I'm not enjoying any of the choices they made with this game, because they feel so backward and stupid

Tadhg_Longhouse

I find dungeons to be ok. At lower levels it's hard to be good at any role as it requires skills you might not have unlocked or resource pools that lack sustainability.

If you've played a few MMOs you'd probably understand that any PuG group is going to have issue at least finding their feet, but with a group of low level new players this is only worse as players might not be familiar with how to best do their role yet.

As a VR14 healer I find dungeons fun, relatively easy and as I'm not forced to only spec into the healing tree I am able to off-dps in situations when I am not needed to heal as much.

The dungeon group finder is a pain, but the game is definitely better if you have a guild or two that you can regularly work with, get advice from and learn how to work together best. In which case you don't need the group finder, just ask in group chat.

I hope things get better for you.

Forcedchaos

I love the game don't get me wrong I even subbed but, I just did the first dungeon as well and it was a cluster**** as you say. I have played a healer in more MMO's than I can count and with this game I just don't feel like dealing with the headache. I'm actually thinking about re rolling today a DPS.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dungeons in this game are amazingly well done, both from the aesthetics and from the combat strategy point of view.

It's true though that the first ones, at low levels, can be tricky because people have been playing solo until then, have not yet learned to "play as a tank / dps / healer" , have not yet made friends to play with on a regular basis and end up randomly grouped with people who are as clueless as they are. Happened to me, too.

Get into a nice guild, give it some time and practice, and you'll be fine.

Syntse

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

every other MMO i've played dungeons have been doable with randoms, yet not this one, it's so awkward

It is doable with randoms. Is it fun... maybe not. And like said the combat system is different in ESO. And people are just learning, maybe in Elden Hollow you'll have better luck. Also you can do the other faction first dungeons too once you complete BC, you can port to them after finishing.

Tank needs sword and shield and the first skill in S&S tree which is taunt.
Healer can be anyone with resto staff and healing springs spell at this point pretty much.
DPS hopefully has skill/spell that does aoe and another that does single target and should be set.

Tank cannot taunt all packs of mobs, no way. DPS and healer need to move a bit to avoid damage while healing or damaging. So the possible tank gets aggro on everything healer keeps him alive while dps just does damage with all the threat on tank doesn't apply here. Everyone is in line of fire and need to avoid damage.

Junipus

Seems to be learning how this game plays differently to most other MMOs. First time I leveled a new alt recently I decided to do the dungeons at the correct level instead of during the VR grind and twice had a clusterduck experience with random all deciding to be DPS and no tanks or healers. Even had it with VR players recently too with someone wanting to run vet BC with 4 dps and an off healer, so it's more about learning how this game works (rather than l2p) than it is about poor design.

Find an organised and knowledgeable group and you'll soon see how easy the dungeons can be, even at low level with no prior CPs.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

I play MMORPG's for the dungeons and raids, and here I just played my first dungeon; The Banishing Cells and jesus christ, they're just not good, not at all
The biggest mistake they made was to not have a dungeon finder that automatically teleports you to the dungeon when you finally manage to get into a group
The second mistake is that they haven't really made it obvious there is a group finder, so you're lucky to find anyone to dungeon with
The third problem is that enemies hit far too hard, and people listing themselves as tanks don't tank, but just hit a single enemy and think they is doing good
The fourth problem is they messed up roles; why have Healer, Tank and DPS available if Healers are severely limited in their abilities because they don't work like Healing spells should in a game? There's no abilities at low level to generate aggro as a Tank
The dungeon was an absolute cluster-*** of bad design choices and it just stupefies me how bad their decision making skills are
They shouldn't have tried making classes so awkward because it's highly detrimental to the PvE group content
Instead of utilising their roles everyone just goes full DPS because trying to be the designated healer ends with you out of mana after like 5 heals.... because spells cost that much
Severely disappointed, I thought if I struggled through the awful solo content it'd open up and dungeons and raids would be fun little past-times
As it turns out, nope, ZoS, you've done an awful job with this MMO, you seem more concerned about the damn single player experience than anything else
I cannot believe I wasted £49.99 on this, it just feels unfinished and [snip]
Is there anyway to improve dungeons? Like will they be better once I reach a higher level etc.? Or are they consistently bad and are groups consistently bad?

What level were you when you made your first Banished Cells? The tank and healer you were playing with were probably limited in their actions because they had little skill points to invest in their build.

It is important to note that roles are a bit different in this game. Tanks are not supposed to take aggro away from every available trash mob, they should focus the bigger mobs, interupt ennemies when they can and soak most of the potential damage done to your team.

If the healer was getting out of magicka there are multiple reasons why it could have happened.
1) The healer is low level and doesn't have the gear to sustain his abilities yet.
2) Your group had bad positioning and was taking way to much damage.
3) The healer wasn't using his restostaff heavy attack to recover magicka.

As a DpS you shouldn't rely entirely on your tank or healer, you should be self suficient and help as much as you can by killing priority targets (like menders and mages), help interupt and block/dodge any telegraphs going toward you. If you don't do that, your healer won't be able to keep up with the heals and that's the point of the game.

Dungeons are one of the best aspect of the game, if you had a bad experience, I can only feel sorry that you do not see the good this game has to offer.

[edited to remove quote]

Sacadon

Unreasonable thread topic... Should read 1st impression instead as you've barely begun and already qq because it's too hard. Learn the game, there are many who will help too.

WolfingHour

You entered a dungeon with a pug, with little to no knowledge of game mechanics let alone boss mechanics and got wrecked.

Hardly breaking news.

Not saying that dungeons and mechanics are perfect - they are not - just that perhaps you need to experience more of them to have an informed opinion.

Nathano

Dungeons in this game are great fun. You just need to get out of the mentality of other MMOs where the tank will gather every mob and noone else gets attacked.

ESO is more realistic in that the battles are like organised chaos :-) The tank should pick up the most dangerous mobs but it is impossible for them to pick up everything, so the other members need to deal with them. Also everyone in the group needs to understand how to block/dodge/interrupt otherwise the healer won't be able to keep up with the damage.

The first few dungeons are always going to be difficult because healers and tanks haven't got that many utilities to perform their role well, but it will improve in the latter levels. Also since the console versions have only just been released you need to give it time for everyone to adjust to the new play style. The same thing happened with PC, people complained about the difficulty but the got used to it and now it's pretty easy.

The_Drexill

Dungeons are pretty decent in ESO, you just had a baddie group. It's harder than WoW at the dungeon level, which is what it sounds like you're used to.


Tanks get their first taunt at level 2 or 3 btw.

Syntse

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

3) The healer wasn't using his restostaff heavy attack to recover magicka.

This. Might not be in the knowledge of many but will help a lot and with templar if I remember correct they get extra with passives or was it in the resto staff passives. Anyway in the beginning healing is healing springs->heavy attack->HS->HA->HS...

WelshAssassin1987

I've enjoyed the first few dungeons. Communication is a bit of an issue, but design wise I like them.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Syntse wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

3) The healer wasn't using his restostaff heavy attack to recover magicka.

This. Might not be in the knowledge of many but will help a lot and with templar if I remember correct they get extra with passives or was it in the resto staff passives. Anyway in the beginning healing is healing springs->heavy attack->HS->HA->HS...

"Essence drain" : first passive in the Resto Staff tree.

Julianos

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

3) The healer wasn't using his restostaff heavy attack to recover magicka.

This. Might not be in the knowledge of many but will help a lot and with templar if I remember correct they get extra with passives or was it in the resto staff passives. Anyway in the beginning healing is healing springs->heavy attack->HS->HA->HS...

"Essence drain" : first passive in the Resto Staff tree.

yes lol

Nathano

Syntse wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

3) The healer wasn't using his restostaff heavy attack to recover magicka.

This. Might not be in the knowledge of many but will help a lot and with templar if I remember correct they get extra with passives or was it in the resto staff passives. Anyway in the beginning healing is healing springs->heavy attack->HS->HA->HS...

I almost gave up on dungeons before I discovered the restostaff heavy attack. Then after I found it healing was a breeze. It wasn't in the tutorial when the game was launched so I hope it is there now as it is essential for healers.

P3ZZL3

Pug Group, v14, Darkshade Pledge - 2.5hrs and a lot of heartache.
Guildies, v14, Darkshade Pledge - 45mins and a walk in the park.

It's all about knowing your roles and the reason why so many join a guild, get to know people and form a 4 man group that learn the mechanics together

SplendidAngharad94

Well, I just retried my first ever dungeon and it worked a lot better
And I'm the Healer :L I managed a lot better this time, turns out potions are necessarry for mana at points
Also the final boss kept healing up and none of my team-mates noticed the Blue Orbs zoning in towards him, so I healed and destroyed them and he went down
Guess it's new to me how much it takes for an enemy to go down as you can't just pure heal, you DPS too which is something I've never done before
I'll admit with a good group of four it was a lot of fun, guess my first group just majorly sucked haha

Syntse

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Pug Group, v14, Darkshade Pledge - 2.5hrs and a lot of heartache.
Guildies, v14, Darkshade Pledge - 45mins and a walk in the park.

Pug, yeah about the same. Reason I don't do pugs.
Guildies, any pledge under the time achievement time. Usually around 15 mins.

SplendidAngharad94

This may sound stupid but how do I heavy attack with my resto staff? i have one equipped so I can do the mana regeneration just don't know how to heavy attack with it on console
Tutorial said Heavy attack was R2, but to even attack with the staff you have to hold R2 down don't you?
Or am I constantly HA-ing :L

Brasseurfb16_ESO

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

Well, I just retried my first ever dungeon and it worked a lot better
And I'm the Healer :L I managed a lot better this time, turns out potions are necessarry for mana at points
Also the final boss kept healing up and none of my team-mates noticed the Blue Orbs zoning in towards him, so I healed and destroyed them and he went down
Guess it's new to me how much it takes for an enemy to go down as you can't just pure heal, you DPS too which is something I've never done before
I'll admit with a good group of four it was a lot of fun, guess my first group just majorly sucked haha

You see, it wasn't that bad in the end!

Kronosphere

yeah man if your doing a dungeon for the 1st time ever with a horrid group it makes the dungeon seem IMMPOSSIBLE!!!! then u come back with a normal group and its like a whole other dungeon lol

rb2001

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

I play MMORPG's for the dungeons and raids, and here I just played my first dungeon; The Banishing Cells and jesus christ, they're just not good, not at all
The biggest mistake they made was to not have a dungeon finder that automatically teleports you to the dungeon when you finally manage to get into a group
The second mistake is that they haven't really made it obvious there is a group finder, so you're lucky to find anyone to dungeon with
The third problem is that enemies hit far too hard, and people listing themselves as tanks don't tank, but just hit a single enemy and think they is doing good
The fourth problem is they messed up roles; why have Healer, Tank and DPS available if Healers are severely limited in their abilities because they don't work like Healing spells should in a game? There's no abilities at low level to generate aggro as a Tank
The dungeon was an absolute cluster-*** of bad design choices and it just stupefies me how bad their decision making skills are
They shouldn't have tried making classes so awkward because it's highly detrimental to the PvE group content
Instead of utilising their roles everyone just goes full DPS because trying to be the designated healer ends with you out of mana after like 5 heals.... because spells cost that much
Severely disappointed, I thought if I struggled through the awful solo content it'd open up and dungeons and raids would be fun little past-times
As it turns out, nope, ZoS, you've done an awful job with this MMO, you seem more concerned about the damn single player experience than anything else
I cannot believe I wasted £49.99 on this, it just feels unfinished and [snip]
Is there anyway to improve dungeons? Like will they be better once I reach a higher level etc.? Or are they consistently bad and are groups consistently bad?

Okay.

I want to tell you that dungeons are my favorite content in the game, really, because they are dynamic and challenging. They require, as others are saying, some experienced players to some degree, or at least people willing to work together and not always rush ahead and LJ it.

As to your first couple complaints, there are reasons why you aren't teleported to the dungeon right away. You may be in some city cleaning up your inventory at the point of group forming, etc.

Enemies hitting too hard? Trust me on this: Give it some time, and try different things. Give it another try with a better group, or come back when you "learn the ropes" a bit more, as they say.

We all were there the first time we went in. I thought "holy this is impossible", but now I can blaze through any of them, but they are still so much fun.

The challenge of dungeons is where you can really see how your character functions and if your build works or not.

As a healer who has healed every non vet dungeon, again, trust me on this: Roles and classes do not forcibly correlate in ESO. You can play any role with any class. I play a NB healer. All you have to do is find players who you like to dungeon with.

For example, everytime I run a dungeon with people, and they do their jobs right, the tank tanks, I don't get aggroed the whole time, it goes smoothly, etc., I add those people as friends. Keep track of the people you dig.

But absolutely when people are doing their jobs, the dungeons are very tactical and fun. It's even fun to do 3-person runs and such when everyone knows what each other is doing and what they should be doing.

I honestly feel like your complaints are valid, but that mostly they are about the players you have tried with, and that is not something ZOS controls. Get some good players together and you'll probably start to love dungeons.

[edited to remove quote]

The_Saint

When you recieved your first quest for a dungoen (banish, fungal, spindle) you are underlevel. The quest (think console is the same as pc) is orange or yellow. That means it will be hard or very hard for your lvl. but everyone want to run because there is a quest, just wait until the quest is green and it is much easier.

And in ESO there is no aoe taunt, so tank cant take all... everyone has to pay attention and block etc...

Syntse

SplendidAngharad94 wrote: »

This may sound stupid but how do I heavy attack with my resto staff? i have one equipped so I can do the mana regeneration just don't know how to heavy attack with it on console
Tutorial said Heavy attack was R2, but to even attack with the staff you have to hold R2 down don't you?
Or am I constantly HA-ing :L

Yes, hold down until it stops... seems long but stops eventually. And it's kinda channeled heavy so any amount of time will give something even if you need to stop in the middle to cast another spell. How ever full heavys recommended.