DSA has a couple "issues"

rokrdt05

@ZOS has not yet even commented to acknowledge if these are known issues are not. To busy with console release to bother.

Nifty2g

rokrdt05 wrote: »

@ZOS has not yet even commented to acknowledge if these are known issues are not. To busy with console release to bother.

Majority of these issues have been around since the launch of VDSA, with update 6 new ones were introduced
Even in update 5 portal killing was a huge issue that was never looked in to

Gilliamtherogue

Personofsecrets wrote: »

can you recall, is this in dsa or vdsa?

VDSA! I've done DSA once on day one and haven't touched it since.

Saturn

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

@thomas.k.grayb14_ESO

Let's be honest, this is a thread to call out bugs that hinder a speed run in any way, not one that mentions how stupid the whole thing is. Have you seen the most recent vDSA run of Hodor? The whole reason why their team works so well is because they exploit the fact that enemies are killable in their portals (which I doubt is an intended "feature") and they, like many other teams, are able to kill the enemies before they even materialise, which as you mentioned is a way to bypass most stage mechanics (for example stage 5 shadowcasters).

If they were to "fix" Dragonstar Arena they should do a proper job of it.
- Remove the ability to damage portals with AoE.
- Revampt the scoring system so it doesn't only reward speed, but so that is also punishes deaths.
- Make it so mechanics cannot be skipped especially stages like 5, 9 and 10.

Most of the issues mentioned by the OP is stuff that just makes a stage last a few seconds longer sometimes, which at the moment is devastating because of how the scoring works.

From Patch notes of 1.6.5:
We have reduced the penalty for losing lives within the Trial or Arena. It still matters, but not nearly as much as it did previously.
Maybe this in itself is a bug, because according to my own calculations a death matters not a single point whatsoever..

Before 1.6 a top run was 50 minutes, but you knew that the team had to be good because they did not have a single death. That is not the case anymore, now a top run is whoever runs the fastest.

I'm not against any of the fixes you are recommending, however they would have to reset the leaderboards in this case as well since the top times would be unattainable with the bugs that are currently being used.

As far as any death penalties... there are none. So far from what our group has seen, it is ALL based on time. We've had runs with 10 deaths and gotten a better score than a run with no deaths but slightly slower time.

The items listed by OP are design flaws that affect any group attempting to run the instance and can cause more then "a few seconds" to each round. Each group comp is different and dps per group would be different as well. @Gilliamtherogue had already mentioned that the topic is about the bugs that affect all groups running the instance and not just a few top leaderboard runners.

Yes of course the leaderboards would have to be reset. Also, let's be honest, the thread was started about bugs that need fixing, you don't really get to decide what is and is not wrong with vDSA. I decided to chime in with a different perspective of what is truly wrong with vDSA, but that doesn't mean it isn't a flaw because I am calling out other issues and not ones that you necessarily agree with.

Fact of the matter is that they wanted to change the scoring system of vDSA and trials to avoid speedrunning and ended up encouraging rather than discouraging it..

vDSA is just about the only competitive PvE aspect ESO has to offer, so why the hell does it have to be so nonsensical? I know you, Moe, Gill, Nifty, along with everyone else in the top of the leaderboards all care about it since you write these threads that urge a change. I get it that you want bugs/glitches that impair good runs fixed, but I also think that beyond the issues mentioned by the OP there are a lot bigger problems with the overall system. Heck the entirety of ESO is build on really idiotic systems such as RNG loot madness, the aforementioned scoring system as well as lack of reason to replay endgame content because the majority of the gear dropped is less effective than PvP gear or crafted sets.

At the very least they should revampt the scoring system to extend replay-value for the sake of competition. I think the mentioned bugs are miniscule problems and I'd rather see them do something about the bigger issues.

Gilliamtherogue

Saturn wrote: »

At the very least they should revampt the scoring system to extend replay-value for the sake of competition. I think the mentioned bugs are miniscule problems and I'd rather see them do something about the bigger issues.

Except that if this so called revamp happened, many runs would be shattered by these "minuscule" bugs that have little counter play and lead to pointless deaths where players are punished for not following unruly things like never being near a boss or getting aimed at with a specific attack. I would love as much as the next guy to see VDSA and trial scoring to be revamped to a more skill oriented system, but when such basic problems still exist in the happenings of the instance, why rework something larger? You sound like one of those throw it away types that elderly people talk about. How you'd rather throw everything away and start from scratch instead of fixing the actual problems before moving on. Zenimax actually does one thing right that most companies don't do, and that's slowly adjust things instead of just re hauling it all in bursts. I'm not saying their means of going about it are perfect, but they realize that its best to study a situation and find what actually is the problem before they just go in gung-*** based on what some whiners on forums complain about. I would rather see the fix for competitive PvE take a while but be done right at once, instead of spending another year filled with a bunch of adjustments that don't fix the real issues.

rokrdt05

Saturn wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

@thomas.k.grayb14_ESO

Let's be honest, this is a thread to call out bugs that hinder a speed run in any way, not one that mentions how stupid the whole thing is. Have you seen the most recent vDSA run of Hodor? The whole reason why their team works so well is because they exploit the fact that enemies are killable in their portals (which I doubt is an intended "feature") and they, like many other teams, are able to kill the enemies before they even materialise, which as you mentioned is a way to bypass most stage mechanics (for example stage 5 shadowcasters).

If they were to "fix" Dragonstar Arena they should do a proper job of it.
- Remove the ability to damage portals with AoE.
- Revampt the scoring system so it doesn't only reward speed, but so that is also punishes deaths.
- Make it so mechanics cannot be skipped especially stages like 5, 9 and 10.

Most of the issues mentioned by the OP is stuff that just makes a stage last a few seconds longer sometimes, which at the moment is devastating because of how the scoring works.

From Patch notes of 1.6.5:
We have reduced the penalty for losing lives within the Trial or Arena. It still matters, but not nearly as much as it did previously.
Maybe this in itself is a bug, because according to my own calculations a death matters not a single point whatsoever..

Before 1.6 a top run was 50 minutes, but you knew that the team had to be good because they did not have a single death. That is not the case anymore, now a top run is whoever runs the fastest.

I'm not against any of the fixes you are recommending, however they would have to reset the leaderboards in this case as well since the top times would be unattainable with the bugs that are currently being used.

As far as any death penalties... there are none. So far from what our group has seen, it is ALL based on time. We've had runs with 10 deaths and gotten a better score than a run with no deaths but slightly slower time.

The items listed by OP are design flaws that affect any group attempting to run the instance and can cause more then "a few seconds" to each round. Each group comp is different and dps per group would be different as well. @Gilliamtherogue had already mentioned that the topic is about the bugs that affect all groups running the instance and not just a few top leaderboard runners.

Yes of course the leaderboards would have to be reset. Also, let's be honest, the thread was started about bugs that need fixing, you don't really get to decide what is and is not wrong with vDSA. I decided to chime in with a different perspective of what is truly wrong with vDSA, but that doesn't mean it isn't a flaw because I am calling out other issues and not ones that you necessarily agree with.

Fact of the matter is that they wanted to change the scoring system of vDSA and trials to avoid speedrunning and ended up encouraging rather than discouraging it..

vDSA is just about the only competitive PvE aspect ESO has to offer, so why the hell does it have to be so nonsensical? I know you, Moe, Gill, Nifty, along with everyone else in the top of the leaderboards all care about it since you write these threads that urge a change. I get it that you want bugs/glitches that impair good runs fixed, but I also think that beyond the issues mentioned by the OP there are a lot bigger problems with the overall system. Heck the entirety of ESO is build on really idiotic systems such as RNG loot madness, the aforementioned scoring system as well as lack of reason to replay endgame content because the majority of the gear dropped is less effective than PvP gear or crafted sets.

At the very least they should revampt the scoring system to extend replay-value for the sake of competition. I think the mentioned bugs are miniscule problems and I'd rather see them do something about the bigger issues.

You have a lot of good points and I do agree with many of them. However, not to derail this particular thread post as the OP is only looking for current bugs in VDSA and asking to see if the Devs are aware and to see if others have any bugs they wanted to add to the list.

Have I played with you in game? I'm not familiar with the @ name of @Saturn. If you have, you'd realize my goal is not just the improvement of our group, but with any group. This is especially true when I am trying to run with newer folks who have not done VDSA or not had that much experience.

Alcast

Saturn wrote: »

@thomas.k.grayb14_ESO

Let's be honest, this is a thread to call out bugs that hinder a speed run in any way, not one that mentions how stupid the whole thing is. Have you seen the most recent vDSA run of Hodor? The whole reason why their team works so well is because they exploit the fact that enemies are killable in their portals (which I doubt is an intended "feature") and they, like many other teams, are able to kill the enemies before they even materialise, which as you mentioned is a way to bypass most stage mechanics (for example stage 5 shadowcasters).

If they were to "fix" Dragonstar Arena they should do a proper job of it.
- Remove the ability to damage portals with AoE.
- Revampt the scoring system so it doesn't only reward speed, but so that is also punishes deaths.
- Make it so mechanics cannot be skipped especially stages like 5, 9 and 10.

Most of the issues mentioned by the OP is stuff that just makes a stage last a few seconds longer sometimes, which at the moment is devastating because of how the scoring works.

From Patch notes of 1.6.5:
We have reduced the penalty for losing lives within the Trial or Arena. It still matters, but not nearly as much as it did previously.
Maybe this in itself is a bug, because according to my own calculations a death matters not a single point whatsoever..

Before 1.6 a top run was 50 minutes, but you knew that the team had to be good because they did not have a single death. That is not the case anymore, now a top run is whoever runs the fastest.

Dmging mobs in portals is not a exploit. It is intended by ZOS otherwise they would have changed it already. Every class can do that by AoEing etc....Top VDSA Team has Sorc+DK DDs+ DK tank+Templar Heal

To get that time you need to AoE Portals, know which MOBS trigger next wave, ALL 4 People have to deal insane damage and only die when it does not matter.


Deaths do not count, you lose 0 points. It is only time, you can check that with the addon "RaidTimer by @Garkin

Also, we are releasing those videos so people can see how *** VDSA is at the moment, at least in 1.5 you got a 5 Minutes death penalty, which is gone now.

Also, PVP buffs boost your dps by approx 20% and depending on how much CPs you have, you can do 25% more max dmg than others with less CP.

In EVERY trial right now, if you pull HIGH dps, you can skip 90% of mechanics. /ZOSLOGIC

I am sending feedback/bugreports every day, but all ZOS is caring about atm is fixing Console

Moezilla

Alcast wrote: »

I am sending feedback/bugreports every day, but all ZOS is caring about atm is fixing Console

#truestory

Alacast, you have probably done Vet-Dsa as much as we have or even more. Are there any bugs that you have encountered that we haven't already touched upon?

Saturn

@rokrdt05

You know me @Saturn666, just got "Saturn" for forums back in the Beta days.

Saturn

@Alcast

I know how raidtimer works, I think Garkin got some inspiration from my thread on the scoring system, which you can find here.

I know everyone can damage portals if they wanted, but I doubt it is an intended mechanic of the game. You think they had a conversation like this:
"Hey, I have a great idea for something we could put into the game."
"What's that?"
"Let players be able to kill enemies before they fully spawn."
"That's.. a great idea! Have a promotion!"

Yeah

Further, yes the PvP buffs are essential to PvE competition which is just poor design.

Side note: I am writing this while the servers are having a *** fit, giving everyone 999+ latency in trials, vdsa and everywhere else.. lol. GG Zenimax

Nifty2g

Alcast wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

@thomas.k.grayb14_ESO

Let's be honest, this is a thread to call out bugs that hinder a speed run in any way, not one that mentions how stupid the whole thing is. Have you seen the most recent vDSA run of Hodor? The whole reason why their team works so well is because they exploit the fact that enemies are killable in their portals (which I doubt is an intended "feature") and they, like many other teams, are able to kill the enemies before they even materialise, which as you mentioned is a way to bypass most stage mechanics (for example stage 5 shadowcasters).

If they were to "fix" Dragonstar Arena they should do a proper job of it.
- Remove the ability to damage portals with AoE.
- Revampt the scoring system so it doesn't only reward speed, but so that is also punishes deaths.
- Make it so mechanics cannot be skipped especially stages like 5, 9 and 10.

Most of the issues mentioned by the OP is stuff that just makes a stage last a few seconds longer sometimes, which at the moment is devastating because of how the scoring works.

From Patch notes of 1.6.5:
We have reduced the penalty for losing lives within the Trial or Arena. It still matters, but not nearly as much as it did previously.
Maybe this in itself is a bug, because according to my own calculations a death matters not a single point whatsoever..

Before 1.6 a top run was 50 minutes, but you knew that the team had to be good because they did not have a single death. That is not the case anymore, now a top run is whoever runs the fastest.

Dmging mobs in portals is not a exploit. It is intended by ZOS otherwise they would have changed it already. Every class can do that by AoEing etc....Top VDSA Team has Sorc+DK DDs+ DK tank+Templar Heal

To get that time you need to AoE Portals, know which MOBS trigger next wave, ALL 4 People have to deal insane damage and only die when it does not matter.


Deaths do not count, you lose 0 points. It is only time, you can check that with the addon "RaidTimer by @Garkin

Also, we are releasing those videos so people can see how *** VDSA is at the moment, at least in 1.5 you got a 5 Minutes death penalty, which is gone now.

Also, PVP buffs boost your dps by approx 20% and depending on how much CPs you have, you can do 25% more max dmg than others with less CP.

In EVERY trial right now, if you pull HIGH dps, you can skip 90% of mechanics. /ZOSLOGIC

I am sending feedback/bugreports every day, but all ZOS is caring about atm is fixing Console

Everyone in this thread is a combination of top NA and EU players atm, we all know how the broken mechanics work.
In my opinion VDSA itself is a bug. To fix the little problems you need to redo the whole system. Thats just my 2 cents anyway.

I think ZOS are aware of the issues, I've messaged all the mods countless times about the system and all the bugs, they reply back to me I've just seen 0 fixes for VDSA only "unintended" nerfs

Alcast

Saturn wrote: »

@Alcast

I know how raidtimer works, I think Garkin got some inspiration from my thread on the scoring system, which you can find here.

I know everyone can damage portals if they wanted, but I doubt it is an intended mechanic of the game. You think they had a conversation like this:
"Hey, I have a great idea for something we could put into the game."
"What's that?"
"Let players be able to kill enemies before they fully spawn."
"That's.. a great idea! Have a promotion!"

Yeah

Further, yes the PvP buffs are essential to PvE competition which is just poor design.

Side note: I am writing this while the servers are having a *** fit, giving everyone 999+ latency in trials, vdsa and everywhere else.. lol. GG Zenimax

I guess so ye, It wouldnt surprise me though if ZOS has no clue lol, after seeing a DEV in a console video lightattacking a mob to death without using skills....i was wondering "Do they even have the slightest clue what they are doing?"

Lag in Sanctum, always on the same 3 spots EVERY TIME.....

we reported so many things and yet they were unable to fix it or all their ressources are on console. Still so many bugged skills around its horrible.

I still hope they will introduce a "Insanity/NIghtmare" mode where ALL your CP+PvP buffs are "negated/canceled" So everybody has the same chances!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

EgoRush

Not sure I have other issues to add but I can confirm we experience the following too:

1) Flame carpets will damage someone standing behind the caster (damn Steamworks boss has killed me once or twice like this...)
2) Pishna's infinite acid spray telegraph
3) Removal of all add/boss mechanics.
4) Portals being the one true enemy

Ah yes I know a bug that hasn't been mentioned. Anyone else had the vampire boss on stage 9 bug with the blood drain ability? Our tank couldn't break free, roll dodge did nothing, couldn't interrupt the boss - she just continued to use other skills while still draining. I had to overheal like crazy until she died. I've seen it happen twice only.

IMO portals should be immune to damage (it's boring having no enemies to fight...) and certain enemies should have higher resistance/health to force teams into dealing with their mechanics again. Shadowcasters, archers in the Grove, all bosses.