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@ZOS - Fix the Map.
-
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭And the Cyrodiil Errors ?
Nobody noticed the Cyrodiil Errors?
You meen the missing Lake in the EastSouth? Where in Oblivion was the Portal to the Shivering Island etc?
Well pherhaps this wasnt Part of the Province Cyro back then.#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That lake (Niben Bay) is still there; it's to the east of Castle Bloodmayne. Here's a screenshot of it:
Edited by Enodoc on June 8, 2015 2:19PMUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That lake (Niben Bay) is still there; it's to the east of Castle Bloodmayne. Here's a screenshot of it:
I know,
wath i tryed to say is that the Province Border changed.
Cyro in Teso
Cyro
but else anything fine fith cyro, mby chorrol and chenyhalt is a bit to much south#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭@BuggeX
The province border didn't change, we just don't have access to the whole of Cyrodiil, just like we don't have access to the whole of Skyrim, High Rock, Elsweyr, et cetera . We only have access to Central/North Cyrodiil. We can't go to South, West and East of Cyrodiil.
yea this wath i mean, my EN isnt the best xD#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I always assumed the island with the portal wasn't a permanent fixture in Nirn... it was only there as part of the portal.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HA @Ghrimn! That's amazing!!!What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haha nice one. Apparently that map "accurately depicts geography and distance", so maybe we should have a look at it
UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »@Gidorick - Eastmarch appears to be far too east on the world map. When considering the location of Skuldafn in Eastmarch, it appears that there is a bay directly to the north of Skuldafn. The issue is, Skuldafn doesn't have a bay directly to the north, it has mountains. Is there an explanation for this? Eastmarch seems to be too far east, but also too far north.
Phrastus of Elinhir says, “Our latter-day Nords are not well known for the scholarly attainments, and cartography is not one of their strongpoints. On their maps, sites of great importance—to Nords, that is—are often distorted and exaggerated. So it is with the eerie aerie of Skuldafn, which holds great significance for our superstitious northern brethren. They have never been comfortable with the fact that the Dark Elves hold the west coast of the Inner Sea all the way up to Blacklight; in some cases their maps elide that fact entirely. But it is there nonetheless.”
I LOVE this answer. lol. So we're all using Nord-made maps. That certainly explains a thing or two.
Edited by Gidorick on June 23, 2015 2:02AMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!2 -
Ghrimn✭✭✭@Gidorick
I call that Horker dung! What does Phrastus of Elinhir know about us Nords? His answers regarding Nords are always the same, "Nords are Dumb". Did he forget about Ysgramor, who developed a runic transcription of Nord speech based on Elvish principles? Gauldur, Ahzidal, Shalidor, all brilliant minds, and all Nords. Let's also not forget about the Greybeards/Tongues who commit their lives into learning The Thu'um, which is extremely hard to learn. Nords are everything but dumb, the greatest minds of all time have been Nords. They've had thousands of brilliant architects, mages, enchanters, tacticians, scholars... Just because we use the sword more than the spell doesn't mean we're mindless brutes, we show nothing but respect for the Clever Craft.
@Phrastus_of_Elinhir, you're nothing more than a Filthy Liar. You Milkdrinker!
Edited by Ghrimn on August 24, 2015 3:10PM4 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lol @Ghrimm. Leave it to a Nord to praise the Nords.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is Blacklight even in ESO?
It could be argued that these are cartographer maps... and they're not entirely precise.
Ya, I would guess that they didn't have GPS mapping...
Great example right here. This is a map of Earth from 1537. It is barely recognizable to what we know today.
Edited by Valen_Byte on June 25, 2015 2:13AM***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn4 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oh my god, the developer of an Elder Scrolls game have changed something in order for it to fit better in the game they are developing!
This totally hasn't been happening for say, the last 20 years!0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭And the Cyrodiil Errors ?
Nobody noticed the Cyrodiil Errors?
No Cyrodiil errors are in the game. At least nothing important, how you see cyrodiil is from the viewpoint of the Three Banners War by the alliances. Combat does not happen away from the Imperial city and is thus left out. The war is for the ruby throne, not the whole of cyrodiil.1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭N-n-n-n-n-necromancy!
It's been a year, but a new theory has emerged.
The western arm of Morrowind is a region which harbors two significant cartographical problems. The first is the much debated issue of Blacklight City; the second is the lesser discussed but no less important problem of Bleakrock Isle. I propose that these two locations are one in the same.
Here is the map as we see it in the 2nd Era (ESO):
http://esomap.uesp.net/
Here is the most recent map of the continent from the 3rd Era (Oblivion)
http://en.uesp.net/w/images/c/c3/TamrielMap.jpg
Now, there are three major features which differ in the Blackrock/Blacklight region.
1.) The island of Solsthiem is far too close to the city of Windhelm on the 2nd Era map.
2.) Bleakrock Isle lies between Skyrim and the island of Vvardenfell
3.) There is a very pronounced sea separating Bleakrock from the mainland.
The question is, how can this be if, in the 3rd Era, neither Bleakrock Isle, nor the aforementioned sea exist. It’s often said that maps are one part science and one part art; that being the case, we can assume that whomever drew these maps was interested in the actual physical features, but also was trying to make some manner of statement. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this map which we are currently working with in the 2nd Era is likely of Nordic origins. This explains both the exaggerated size of the sacred site of Skuldafn, as well as the closer proximity of Solsthiem; drawing it closer to their coastline allows Skyrim to maintain a stronger claim on Solsthiem as their own territory.
What this doesn’t explain is how both an entire island and a sea disappear entirely.
Now, it’s not uncommon for older maps to be less accurate than newer ones; that’s well established. Typically, a newer map will be more detailed, describing more features and places. Very seldom, though, do we see known features disappear from a map. So the question remains, what happened to Bleakrock Isle?
So, let’ establish some dates.
The events of ESO take place beginning in the year 2E 582. So at this point when know the Bleakrock Isle exists because we’ve been there. The first mention of the City of Blacklight I when Tiber Septim garrisons his forces there during the Tiber Wars some 300 years later; approximately 2E 852. What this tells us is that at some point between 2E 582 and 2E 852 something occurred in the region to wipe both Bleakrock Isle and the sea separating it from Skyrim off the map.
It is my supposition that the sea separating Skyrim from Bleakrock simply ceased to be thereby connecting Bleakrock Isle to the mainland and that the city of Blacklight was later founded thereon.
But how can this be? You ask? We have very little lore for the region to go on for that time period, so the best can do is speculate, but let’s look at what we know.
First, it’s a seismically active region. If that sea is shallow enough, could a significant seismic event raise that land enough to drain the region? Surely such an event would be catastrophic for the surrounding areas. But what if we’ve already seen the beginning of this process? And what if there were a way to protect those people living on the coastline?
In the year 2E 572, Akaviri raiders landed alone the coast of Morrowind. According to legend, Vivec granted his people the ability to “Breath Water” and utterly flooded the land to repel the Akaviri. This event takes place a mere six years before the Soulburst and ten years prior to ESO. What if this event was but the first in a series of god-aided terraforming projects to drain this sea? Or perhaps this "sea" is simply the area flooded by Lord Vivec and he hasn't allowed the floodwaters to recede.
Edit: Further research shows that additional seismic events in the area accompanied the Soulburst in 2E 578.
But why? That’s a good question. The immediate answer for that first event is known, to repel invaders. But why continue to raise the land? Well, what we know about that region in the 3rd Era is that in addition to the City of Blacklight, it also contains the Dunmeth Pass; an important, nay essential, trade route through the Velothi mountains connecting Skyrim to Morrowind.
Prior to the Three Banners war, the Velothi mountains were a welcome barricade between the enemy states of Morrowind and Skyrim, but once the Pact is established in 2E 572, it would make sense to create a trade route and strengthen that bond as well as create an avenue for troop movements between Provinces.
I propose that with the help an approval of the rest of the Pact, Vivec used his powers to raise that region in a controlled terraforming event over the curse of 300 years. During that time, the Dunmer established and settled the City of Blacklight. An action which, ironically, came back to bite them when Tiber Septim used the Dunmeth Pass to move his own army into Morrowind and eventually sack Mournhold.
As for the border… Borders are a dynamic, political feature, they move now and then. Though most likely it was redrawn when the Dunmer reclaimed Blacklight from Imperial forces
Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 14, 2016 8:09PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?4 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There's also the notion that the sea separating Bleakrock from Skyrim -is- the area that Vivec flooded and he simply hasn't allowed the waters to recede yet.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »N-n-n-n-n-necromancy!
It's been a year, but a new theory has emerged.
The western arm of Morrowind is a region which harbor to significant cartographical problems. The first is the much debated issue of Blacklight City; the second is the lesser discussed but no less important problem of Bleakrock Isle. I propose that these two locations are one in the same.
Here is the map as we see it in the 2nd Era (ESO):
http://esomap.uesp.net/
Here is the most recent map of the continent from the 3rd Era (Oblivion)
http://en.uesp.net/w/images/c/c3/TamrielMap.jpg
Now, there are three major features which differ in the Blackrock/Blacklight region.
1.) The island of Solsthiem is far too close to the city of Windhelm on the 2nd Era map.
2.) Bleakrock Isle lies between Skyrim and the island of Vvardenfell
3.) There is a very pronounced sea separating Bleakrock from the mainland.
The question is, how can this be if, in the 3rd Era, neither Bleakrock Isle, nor the aforementioned sea exist. It’s often said that maps are one part science and one part art; that being the case, we can assume that whomever drew these maps was interested in the actual physical features, but also was trying to make some manner of statement. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this map which we are currently working with in the 2nd Era is likely of Nordic origins. This explains both the exaggerated size of the sacred site of Skuldafn, as well as the closer proximity of Solsthiem; drawing it closer to their coastline allows Skyrim to maintain a stronger claim on Solsthiem as their own territory.
What this doesn’t explain is how both an entire island and a sea disappear entirely.
Now, it’s not uncommon for older maps to be less accurate than newer ones; that’s well established. Typically, a newer map will be more detailed, describing more features and places. Very seldom, though, do we see known features disappear from a map. So the question remains, what happened to Bleakrock Isle?
So, let’ establish some dates.
The events of ESO take place beginning in the year 2E 582. So at this point when know the Bleakrock Isle exists because we’ve been there. The first mention of the City of Blacklight I when Tiber Septim garrisons his forces there during the Tiber Wars some 300 years later; approximately 2E 852. What this tells us is that at some point between 2E 582 and 2E 852 something occurred in the region to wipe both Bleakrock Isle and the sea separating it from Skyrim off the map.
It is my supposition that the sea separating Skyrim from Bleakrock simply ceased to be thereby connecting Bleakrock Isle to the mainland and that the city of Blacklight was later founded thereon.
But how can this be? You ask? We have very little lore for the region to go on for that time period, so the best can do is speculate, but let’s look at what we know.
First, it’s a seismically active region. If that sea is shallow enough, could a significant seismic event raise that land enough to drain the region? Surely such an event would be catastrophic for the surrounding areas. But what if we’ve already seen the beginning of this process? And what if there were a way to protect those people living on the coastline?
In the year 2E 572, Akaviri raiders landed alone the coast of Morrowind. According to legend, Vivec granted his people the ability to “Breath Water” and utterly flooded the land to repel the Akaviri. This event takes place a mere six years before the Soulburst and ten years prior to ESO. What if this event was but the first in a series of god-aided terraforming projects to drain this sea?
But why? That’s a good question. The immediate answer for that first event is known, to repel invaders. But why continue to raise the land? Well, what we know about that region in the 3rd Era is that in addition to the City of Blacklight, it also contains the Dunmeth Pass; an important, nay essential, trade route through the Velothi mountains connecting Skyrim to Morrowind.
Prior to the Three Banners war, the Velothi mountains were a welcome barricade between the enemy states of Morrowind and Skyrim, but once the Pact is established in 2E 572, it would make sense to create a trade route and strengthen that bond as well as create an avenue for troop movements between Provinces.
I propose that with the help an approval of the rest of the Pact, Vivec used his powers to raise that region in a controlled terraforming event over the curse of 300 years. During that time, the Dunmer established and settled the City of Blacklight. An action which, ironically, came back to bite them when Tiber Septim used the Dunmeth Pass to move his own army into Morrowind and eventually sack Mournhold.
As for the border… Borders are a dynamic, political feature, they move now and then. Though most likely it was redrawn when the Dunmer reclaimed Blacklight from Imperial forces
I think this is an amazingly elegant solution and one that fit in with lore really well. Hopefully ZOS sees this ( @ZOS_JessicaFolsom to make sure) and considers including this explanation in some future DLC.
I don't know exactly how they would do it, but a DLC Zone that has it's land terraformed over time like Orsinium would be AMAZING!
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Theory updated to include additional seismic activity occurring at the time of the Soulburst."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
There's also the notion that the sea separating Bleakrock from Skyrim -is- the area that Vivec flooded and he simply hasn't allowed the waters to recede yet.
This is true.Wouldnt it be interesting if he did just that? Receded the waters?0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
There's also the notion that the sea separating Bleakrock from Skyrim -is- the area that Vivec flooded and he simply hasn't allowed the waters to recede yet.
This is true.Wouldnt it be interesting if he did just that? Receded the waters?
The more I look at it, the more probable it appears.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
There's also the notion that the sea separating Bleakrock from Skyrim -is- the area that Vivec flooded and he simply hasn't allowed the waters to recede yet.
This is true.Wouldnt it be interesting if he did just that? Receded the waters?
The more I look at it, the more probable it appears.
I wonder if the devs have thought of this yet?0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »
There's also the notion that the sea separating Bleakrock from Skyrim -is- the area that Vivec flooded and he simply hasn't allowed the waters to recede yet.
This is true.Wouldnt it be interesting if he did just that? Receded the waters?
The more I look at it, the more probable it appears.
I wonder if the devs have thought of this yet?
It really seems like a simple fix for a pretty glaring map problem.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Carnagan✭✭✭Is this seriously considered a problem?
Ok. If we're going to rag on ESO for not being perfect, let's talk about Skyrim did with accuracy.
Hm... Doesn't seem good in the Redguard manual... How about in Arena?
See, this is the thing. The maps have changed over time. ESO isn't the first time it happened. Consider how Morrowind screwed up the map that was established for the province.
Besides the sudden increase of settlements, the wrong size and shape, etc, you'll also notice that, between the Morrowind and Skyrim maps, there's something missing. See if you can spot it on the original map.
No Solstheim.
I think that, if we can accept Morrowind altering the map to add in an entire, fair sized island, we can forgive ESO for not having their proportions exact. It's no different than anything the other games in the series have done."You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
Proud explorer of Tamriel since 19960 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Carnagan You're going like a year backward in the conversation.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Carnagan✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »@Carnagan You're going like a year backward in the conversation.
So I seem to be.
"You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
Proud explorer of Tamriel since 19960 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »@Carnagan You're going like a year backward in the conversation.
So I seem to be.
Naw, would love your input on the -current- vein of conversation.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0
This discussion has been closed.