So Jorunn and Almalexia Are the Nord and Dunmer Leaders.....

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2015

So who is leading the Argonians? Or do they not have their own voice within the Great Moot?

I mean. I wouldnt be surprised if the Argonians didnt get to have their own voices heard within the very Alliance that theyve agreed to take part in. Considering their the token Beast Race of the Ebonheart Pact. It seems the Beast Races are either members of said Alliances in name alone or hold token positions within said Alliances Government.

I guess Im just curious if this was something that was overlooked by those putting together the Ebonheart Pact story. Or if the Argonian Leader(s) have not been introduced yet due to a need to expand into regions of Black Marsh that have yet to be seen?

Pallmor · June 2015

Some big Hist tree probably.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2015

Pallmor wrote: »

Some big Hist tree probably.

While I would not be shocked that the Argonians first taking part in the meeting between Jorunn, Almalexia, the representative Nord Clans and Dunmer Great Houses would offer up a Great Hist Tree as their Leader and representative to the Great Moot. I doubt any Nord or Dunmer would of gone along with it.

I want to believe theres someone out there acting as the Voice of the Argonians. But it would not be a surprise to find out that they dont actually have a voice at all and are simply second class citizens in the EP. While the Nords demanded the Argonians be free as members of the EP. I dont recall any talk of them being treated fairly and equally. And most of the times you run into Argonians in the story. Theyre brushed off by others and rarely treated as intelligent or worth speaking too.

Im curious if leaving out an Argonian Leader was done on purpose to do as Bethesda has done in the past with ES games. Instead of having flat out black and white scenarios. Theyve always left things in the grey and made them murky. Argonians being free and 'member's of the EP but not actually represented by their own kind with in the Great Moot would definitely fall into that murky and grey area.

EramTheLiar · June 2015

It's probably a little too simplistic to call Almalexia the leader of the Dunmer. It is a Tribunal after all. She's probably the one who interfaces with the people more often than not... but

the meeting between Jorun and the other faction representatives had a Dunmer general as the official representative.

That's probably how the Argonians do it as well. The Hist is the how the Argonians make their decisions, but then a high-ranking Argonian is appointed to be the spokesman. Er. Lizard. Spokeslizard.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2015

EramTheLiar wrote: »

It's probably a little too simplistic to call Almalexia the leader of the Dunmer. It is a Tribunal after all. She's probably the one who interfaces with the people more often than not... but
the meeting between Jorun and the other faction representatives had a Dunmer general as the official representative.

That's probably how the Argonians do it as well. The Hist is the how the Argonians make their decisions, but then a high-ranking Argonian is appointed to be the spokesman. Er. Lizard. Spokeslizard.

The only place Ive read that there is an Argonian Representative is in literature and its quickly glossed over without giving any serious detail as to who sits at the Great Moot with Jorunn. And maybe I jumped to Almalexia because shes the most visible Dunmer Leader that you come into contact with. I want to say I read somewhere, or was told, that shes the representative. It may just be that shes the one that brought the Great Houses of the Dunmer together for this Alliance and thats why Im connecting her with being the EP Representative for the Dunmer.

Either way. It would be interesting to not only see the Argonian Leader (General/Shaman/Etc) in game but the Dunmer General as well.

BBSooner · June 2015

EramTheLiar wrote: »

It's probably a little too simplistic to call Almalexia the leader of the Dunmer. It is a Tribunal after all. She's probably the one who interfaces with the people more often than not... but
the meeting between Jorun and the other faction representatives had a Dunmer general as the official representative.

That's probably how the Argonians do it as well. The Hist is the how the Argonians make their decisions, but then a high-ranking Argonian is appointed to be the spokesman. Er. Lizard. Spokeslizard.

I agree. The Argonians sent a representative to the moot similar to how the Dunmer sent theirs. In the fourth era, the An-Xileel are in power (since they are a political party it stands to reason the Argonians have some form of government beneath rulership/worship of the Hist). We are likely not given exact information about what Argonian faction currently has power, or what form of government rules beneath the hist on purpose since this is all information we'll probably be given when Black Marsh is released.

traigusb14_ESO2 · June 2015

EramTheLiar wrote: »

It's probably a little too simplistic to call Almalexia the leader of the Dunmer. It is a Tribunal after all. She's probably the one who interfaces with the people more often than not... but
the meeting between Jorun and the other faction representatives had a Dunmer general as the official representative.

That's probably how the Argonians do it as well. The Hist is the how the Argonians make their decisions, but then a high-ranking Argonian is appointed to be the spokesman. Er. Lizard. Spokeslizard.

Yeah, can't expect her to go up north.. she doesn't wear any clothes!

At that meeting there was an Argonian.. and her VW bug sized, 4000 pound hist seed that she produced out of nowhere... She was from the temple, but I don't remember exactly who she was offhand.

Darlgon · June 2015

First off.. umm.. no.. Almalexia is NOT leading the Dunmer. She is a (false) goddess too busy to deal with such mundane affairs.

Judging by the cast who follow you throughout the main story for EP, up to "Stomping Sinmur":

King Jorunn leads the Alliance
General Holgun leads the melee military (representing Nords)
Valdam Andoren leads the offensive magic users replacing Tanval Indoril (representing Dunmer)
Walks-in-Ash leads the Argonians (Spiritual leader of the Argonians)

tinythinker · June 2015

Eyes-of-Steel was the Argonian general who offered the Mnemic Egg at the formal ceremony uniting the Pact at Skuldafn, for what that's worth.

traigusb14_ESO2 · June 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

Eyes-of-Steel was the Argonian general who offered the Mnemic Egg at the formal ceremony uniting the Pact at Skuldafn, for what that's worth.

My bad thought it was a temple person. The thing was HUUUGE though.

tinythinker · June 2015

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Eyes-of-Steel was the Argonian general who offered the Mnemic Egg at the formal ceremony uniting the Pact at Skuldafn, for what that's worth.

My bad thought it was a temple person. The thing was HUUUGE though.

Was she? Anyway, just offering the name.

Enodoc · June 2015

Eyes-of-Steel was indeed the Argonian representative at the Great Moot in the Eastmarch quest chain, while Heita-Meen was the one present at the official signing of the Pact in Ebonheart. Heita-Meen is also the one credited with convincing some of the Argonian tribes to join up.
From that, I would say Heita-Meen is the political leader of Argonians in the Pact, while Eyes-of-Steel is the military leader.

traigusb14_ESO2 · June 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Eyes-of-Steel was indeed the Argonian representative at the Great Moot in the Eastmarch quest chain, while Heita-Meen was the one present at the official signing of the Pact in Ebonheart. Heita-Meen is also the one credited with convincing some of the Argonian tribes to join up.
From that, I would say Heita-Meen is the political leader of Argonians in the Pact, while Eyes-of-Steel is the military leader.

Ahh. that makes sense. Also explains why I was confused.

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2015

you meet the argonian diplomatic liaison in east-march and before that. There isn't really an Orc one either.

Enodoc · June 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

you meet the argonian diplomatic liaison in east-march and before that. There isn't really an Orc one either.

King Kurog is most definitely the Orcs' leader in the Covenant, we just haven't ever actually met him. (He should feature heavily in the Wrothgar storyline though.)

Woolenthreads · June 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

First off.. umm.. no.. Almalexia is NOT leading the Dunmer. She is a (false) goddess too busy to deal with such mundane affairs.

Almalexia is the representative of the Tribunal. As Darlgon has said She's a False Goddess, having been advisor to Nerevar, along with Sotha Sil and Vivec, before the Dwemer disappeared and he died. In the game "Morrowind", there is evidence that the Tribunal murdered Nerevar in order to take the power of the Heart of Lorkhan, after the Dwemer discovered how to manipulate it and accidently disappeared.

In the future of Tamriel there is a King of Morrowind , but I saw no evidence of that in ESO

Usara · June 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

First off.. umm.. no.. Almalexia is NOT leading the Dunmer. She is a (false) goddess too busy to deal with such mundane affairs.

Judging by the cast who follow you throughout the main story for EP, up to "Stomping Sinmur":

King Jorunn leads the Alliance
General Holgun leads the melee military (representing Nords)
Valdam Andoren leads the offensive magic users replacing Tanval Indoril (representing Dunmer)
Walks-in-Ash leads the Argonians (Spiritual leader of the Argonians)

Holgun does not represent the Nords, as he was in service of the Indoril House. He just happens to be a Nord, but he has more ties to the Dunmers than the Nords.
Valdam Andoren does not represent the Dunmer either. He is - at best - a representant of the Mage Guild.
Walks-In-Ash does not spoke for the Argonians either, actually, it looks more like she may be a former slave, because it is implied she's been living a long time in Senie, the village in the Stonefalls where we first met her.

Actually, Jorun represents the Nords, and Eyes-of-Steel and General Noramil are the official representants of Argonians and Dunmers - even though, especially in the case of Noramil, it seems to come out of nowhere (look at the quest ending in Eastmarch, when Jorun is chosen to lead the Pact...)

Almalexia is the one implied to be the spiritual leader of the Dunmer. After all, only Vox knew about the false godess thing, and the Vestige is the one who ended her life (Deshaan questline). No one but her (and her son) know the truth about Almalexia and the Tribunal (we players only know it because of Morrowind, but the Vestige doesn't know better)