Improving Maps and the World of ESO

Davadin

OK, so I was reading Kotaku's article (http://kotaku.com/the-best-maps-help-you-get-lost-1704630174) and was also looking at some old MMO I've tried and other games... (it's a slow day at work!)(well, not really, but OH WELL!)


and it dawned on me.

THIS, is what ESO's missing. Oh sorry, ESOTU. On many other RPG games (single/sandbox/MMO) I've played, having a sense of the world, how large it is, being immersed and engaged... it's really was being helped by the map. Yes, the world design plays a HUGE part, but every time I opened my map, there's this sense of *excitement and exploration*. Skyrim. Mass Effect, Witcher, LOTRO, Morrowind, or even games like GTA and Far Cry... I love looking at the map. Zooming in and out, planning my trip, etc...

But not with ESO.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. I opened the map when I first play the game, and all I got in my head was "ok, this is where I am. This is the next area. Let's go." That's it. Nothing "majestic", nothing made me goes "ooooh wow I like to see what THAT area looks like" or "I wanna level up quickly so I can go there!".

Fast forward 1 year and I still feel that way. My eyes goes straight to the icons, maybe checked the legends, find where the interesting points and just GO THERE. No time wasted. Both for Cyrodiil and PvE. In world and for dungeons.

I'm not saying the map is... ugly. And in fact, it's really functional.

BUT I really like to discuss what others think about ESO's map, in the context of functionality, aesthetic, and sense of immersion and exploration. And perhaps, how can we improve it.

Here's what pops in my head immediately (disclaimer: some I admit are quite stupid, but hey, it's fun).
1. Remove fast travel via map. Or at least limit it greatly by distance or cost or cooldown. Too much quick transit doesn't let people travel AT ALL. So many area and scenery are WASTED. But ok, maybe keep it for Cyrodiil, we don't want those pvp crybabies whine.
2. Faster horse speed. Kinda related to #1, as incentive to explore.
3. More easter egg tips hidden in the map. Yes, there's already achievements when you visit interesting spots, but they all served as "let's go there just so I can finish the achivs" instead of a genuine "hm I wonder what can I find there". More surprises or hidden gem would be nice.
4. Better high-quality map. Yes, functional when zoomed all the way out, but if you zoom in, there should be more details. Change not to pure satellite mode, but maybe hybrid when zoomed in? Have you seen Far Cry 3's map?
5. Opening map animation. Instead of a simple POP! on your screen, why not animated hands opening a scroll or something?
6. Longer "quick travel" animation when not using wayshrine. Kinda like #1 again I suppose...
7. Active/dynamic/animated event icons on the map. You know the "battle!" icon on cyrodiil? Make it so the little swords are actually clashing! And the monster icon? Maybe moves like a snake? I don't know, but make it more interesting.
8. Easier/simpler/more functionality on the map. Right now you can only right-click to add personal destination. Group leader can add rally point. That's it. Why not ability to select an area? Adding NOTES?? Sharing what you selected to mail/chat? (this will help answering "where is it" questions)

That's all I got for now.

Thanks for reading!

Darkonflare15

Davadin wrote: »

OK, so I was reading Kotaku's article (http://kotaku.com/the-best-maps-help-you-get-lost-1704630174) and was also looking at some old MMO I've tried and other games... (it's a slow day at work!)(well, not really, but OH WELL!)


and it dawned on me.

THIS, is what ESO's missing. Oh sorry, ESOTU. On many other RPG games (single/sandbox/MMO) I've played, having a sense of the world, how large it is, being immersed and engaged... it's really was being helped by the map. Yes, the world design plays a HUGE part, but every time I opened my map, there's this sense of *excitement and exploration*. Skyrim. Mass Effect, Witcher, LOTRO, Morrowind, or even games like GTA and Far Cry... I love looking at the map. Zooming in and out, planning my trip, etc...

But not with ESO.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. I opened the map when I first play the game, and all I got in my head was "ok, this is where I am. This is the next area. Let's go." That's it. Nothing "majestic", nothing made me goes "ooooh wow I like to see what THAT area looks like" or "I wanna level up quickly so I can go there!".

Fast forward 1 year and I still feel that way. My eyes goes straight to the icons, maybe checked the legends, find where the interesting points and just GO THERE. No time wasted. Both for Cyrodiil and PvE. In world and for dungeons.

I'm not saying the map is... ugly. And in fact, it's really functional.

BUT I really like to discuss what others think about ESO's map, in the context of functionality, aesthetic, and sense of immersion and exploration. And perhaps, how can we improve it.

Here's what pops in my head immediately (disclaimer: some I admit are quite stupid, but hey, it's fun).
1. Remove fast travel via map. Or at least limit it greatly by distance or cost or cooldown. Too much quick transit doesn't let people travel AT ALL. So many area and scenery are WASTED. But ok, maybe keep it for Cyrodiil, we don't want those pvp crybabies whine.
2. Faster horse speed. Kinda related to #1, as incentive to explore.
3. More easter egg tips hidden in the map. Yes, there's already achievements when you visit interesting spots, but they all served as "let's go there just so I can finish the achivs" instead of a genuine "hm I wonder what can I find there". More surprises or hidden gem would be nice.
4. Better high-quality map. Yes, functional when zoomed all the way out, but if you zoom in, there should be more details. Change not to pure satellite mode, but maybe hybrid when zoomed in? Have you seen Far Cry 3's map?
5. Opening map animation. Instead of a simple POP! on your screen, why not animated hands opening a scroll or something?
6. Longer "quick travel" animation when not using wayshrine. Kinda like #1 again I suppose...
7. Active/dynamic/animated event icons on the map. You know the "battle!" icon on cyrodiil? Make it so the little swords are actually clashing! And the monster icon? Maybe moves like a snake? I don't know, but make it more interesting.
8. Easier/simpler/more functionality on the map. Right now you can only right-click to add personal destination. Group leader can add rally point. That's it. Why not ability to select an area? Adding NOTES?? Sharing what you selected to mail/chat? (this will help answering "where is it" questions)

That's all I got for now.

Thanks for reading!

Well when I first played the game I had that feeling of exploration. When I first saw Riven spire and then I read about Rivenspire in the game I wonder how it would look. When I got there I was surprised at how different it look compare to the rest of High Rock. So most of those games you listed I had the same feeling in the beginning but latter on I got bored of it. So it basically depends on the person.

Nestor

1. Fast Travel is fine. There are more than enough reasons to travel over land as it is. However I don't have the time to not fast travel. Walking across the map is fine and all, but I can pick and choose when to do that.
2. Yes, the horses need to be faster or let us train in up to 3 categories each day
3. Easter Eggs and reasons to explore are always good. In fact, those abound in the game now. We could always use more
4. Maybe, the current map shows me what I need to play the game.
5. Maybe, but not something that adds time to the process. I tend to open my map quite a few times in some places, and an arbitrary delay to play an animation would irk me to no end
6. The Porting animation is long enough as it is. If anything, I want it to be shorter.
7. Maybe. If it makes the map open slower, then no. Anything like this should be an option
8. Notes on the map would be a good thing.

Davadin

Nestor wrote: »

1. Fast Travel is fine. There are more than enough reasons to travel over land as it is. However I don't have the time to not fast travel. Walking across the map is fine and all, but I can pick and choose when to do that.
2. Yes, the horses need to be faster or let us train in up to 3 categories each day
3. Easter Eggs and reasons to explore are always good. In fact, those abound in the game now. We could always use more
4. Maybe, the current map shows me what I need to play the game.
5. Maybe, but not something that adds time to the process. I tend to open my map quite a few times in some places, and an arbitrary delay to play an animation would irk me to no end
6. The Porting animation is long enough as it is. If anything, I want it to be shorter.
7. Maybe. If it makes the map open slower, then no. Anything like this should be an option
8. Notes on the map would be a good thing.

good stuff. i like how u bring the performance/gameplay point of view. i agree with many of those.

#4 though, that's the whole point of the thread. I want MORE on it than what I need to play the game.

Nestor

Davadin wrote: »

#4 though, that's the whole point of the thread. I want MORE on it than what I need to play the game.

Full Disclosure I run addons like Skyshards, Lorebooks and Destinations. I just tend to keep them turned off until I have explored a zone with the stock map. Then I turn them on to see what I may have missed. They clutter up the map too much to have on all the time. That is why I say make anything that adds information to the game map optional. Usually I don't miss much, it's not very much as I explore all the nooks and crannies anyway. Except Skyshards, I can go right by those things and miss them for some reason.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Levelling all three Horse categories a day, simultaneously, could be a nice addition to the Subscription benefits.

I do admit I rarely ride my horse though, much prefer exploring on foot, and I only quick travel between waypoints, not from middle of nowhere to a waypoint.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Levelling all three Horse categories a day, simultaneously, could be a nice addition to the Subscription benefits.

I do admit I rarely ride my horse though, much prefer exploring on foot, and I only quick travel between waypoints, not from middle of nowhere to a waypoint.

Maybe add a "fog of ignorance" so map areas are devoid of any details until you have been there and scouted things out a bit.

All The Best

I_killed_Vivec

"Too much quick transit doesn't let people travel AT ALL"

No. It doesn't STOP anyone from walking if they choose.

"I would explore, but quick transit makes it impossible" is just nonsense. Exploration is up to you. If you choose not to explore then that's your fault...

In fact it starts with the comment "I opened the map when I first play the game".

Don't!

Don't open the map, just explore!

(I preferred it when you had to ask around for quests, not just look at the map and walk up to a quest giver)

Davadin

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Levelling all three Horse categories a day, simultaneously, could be a nice addition to the Subscription benefits.

I do admit I rarely ride my horse though, much prefer exploring on foot, and I only quick travel between waypoints, not from middle of nowhere to a waypoint.

All The Best

I do want that leveling all three too.

But feels like a sucker punch for people who already have 1 or 2 full....

Nestor wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

#4 though, that's the whole point of the thread. I want MORE on it than what I need to play the game.

Full Disclosure I run addons like Skyshards, Lorebooks and Destinations. I just tend to keep them turned off until I have explored a zone with the stock map. Then I turn them on to see what I may have missed. They clutter up the map too much to have on all the time. That is why I say make anything that adds information to the game map optional. Usually I don't miss much, it's not very much as I explore all the nooks and crannies anyway. Except Skyshards, I can go right by those things and miss them for some reason.

I do too! But I feel like the map is just some sort of digital.... map. Instead of something much more meaningful and beautiful and useful.

I don't want a cluttered map, but I do want something more epic than what we have now.

Gidorick

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154057/eso-advanced-mapping-concept

Personally, having the whole map visible destroys my sense of exploration.

I completely agree with the map unrolling idea... and A more detailed map as you zoom in further would be cool, but father out it should look like it does now.

I like that our maps look like maps and wish or journals looked like journals.

Davadin

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

"Too much quick transit doesn't let people travel AT ALL"

No. It doesn't STOP anyone from walking if they choose.

"I would explore, but quick transit makes it impossible" is just nonsense. Exploration is up to you. If you choose not to explore then that's your fault...

In fact it starts with the comment "I opened the map when I first play the game".

Don't!

Don't open the map, just explore!

(I preferred it when you had to ask around for quests, not just look at the map and walk up to a quest giver)

I don't have that kind of mental strength.

I love exploring and I do explore, but I would want a nicer map still. Have you played other RPG games like Witcher or Dragon Age or Skyrim? It's beautiful and functional!

I wish I can scribble on them, zoom in, see things moving, etc....

Acrolas

The only game I've ever wished had improved built-in cartography was Minecraft. The only reliable solution to getting lost was to get killed and revive at your bed.

If ESO were that sprawling, I'd want changes. But I don't need a super-detailed map for what amounts to a mid-sized park. Anyone who does even a little bit of recreational running can't be all that impressed with the size of the game worlds. They're pretty small, and a conditioned runner could probably make it from the southern tip of Glenumbra to the southern tip of Bangkorai in under 40 minutes if they were actual places.

The best games for immersion are the ones that never let you see or know just how large or small the world actually is.

Daemons_Bane

Meh.. The only stuff here that seems interesting is the 3 training sessions a day for horses, and maybe a little more detail for the map.. The moving monsters and clashing swords, go make them for yourself in a mod I don't want some fancy pants magic fairy map, just a good old solid piece of parchment.. Neither do I want the opening animation to be longer, since I use my map A LOT.. The fast travel parts you suggest, I simply don't get.. You sound like it actually annoys you how other people use their time.. You can do EXACTLY as you like with your time, but don't try and impose limitations on other players.. Some people, my self included, have busy scheduals and maybe not so much playtime.. If I want to travel 1km via shrines, then by the gods I want to be able to do it

AlnilamE

The map has enough detail. If you look closely, you can see a lot of geography details that tell you where to look for stuff.

Maps, after all, are just a ghost of the actual landscape. They need to make you want to see the real place.

Davadin

AlnilamE wrote: »

The map has enough detail. If you look closely, you can see a lot of geography details that tell you where to look for stuff.

Maps, after all, are just a ghost of the actual landscape. They need to make you want to see the real place.

problem is, it doesn't for me, unlike other games.

that's the point.

how can the map be improved so it can make the players feel more immersive and engaged with the world.


but if u dont care about imersion and simply want to get things done, then that's fine too. this thread doesn't concern you, of course.

Daemons_Bane

Close the map and look at the landscape.. Great detail

AlnilamE

I care about immersion. A map is a piece of paper that shows me where to go in the game world to get immersed.

If you wander about the zones you find so many little touches, like abandoned camp sites or random bits that make you wonder about the story of those that ended up there.

Don't get me wrong. I like maps. But I like the game world here more. I want to run around and interact with stuff and use the map as a guide, and it does a great job of doing that.

Davadin

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Close the map and look at the landscape.. Great detail

ah well.

i suppose that works too.

AlnilamE wrote: »

I care about immersion. A map is a piece of paper that shows me where to go in the game world to get immersed.

If you wander about the zones you find so many little touches, like abandoned camp sites or random bits that make you wonder about the story of those that ended up there.

Don't get me wrong. I like maps. But I like the game world here more. I want to run around and interact with stuff and use the map as a guide, and it does a great job of doing that.

no no it's good. great, even. but i want to make it even BETTER.

check out other RPG like the games i mentioned above.

the maps make me WANT to check things out even MORE....

anyway..... i thought it's worth a discussion

Daemons_Bane

I think that OP and "the rest of us" thinks of 2 different types of maps.. Most of us in the thread so far, it seems, wants a completely standard map, that shows us the basic stuff we need to know.. OP, on the other hand, seems like he wants a cartographers? landscapers? map.. A map that shows him the land in all it's details and so on, since he feels that would be more immersive.. I just can't help but feel that such a map, which would be even rarer in the medieval times, is something that a common adventurer should be in posession of

And besides, what kind of details is it that you wish for? We can see the height of the land, the markers that we need.. What is it that you think is not there?

Davadin

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I think that OP and "the rest of us" thinks of 2 different types of maps.. Most of us in the thread so far, it seems, wants a completely standard map, that shows us the basic stuff we need to know.. OP, on the other hand, seems like he wants a cartographers? landscapers? map.. A map that shows him the land in all it's details and so on, since he feels that would be more immersive.. I just can't help but feel that such a map, which would be even rarer in the medieval times, is something that a common adventurer should be in posession of

And besides, what kind of details is it that you wish for? We can see the height of the land, the markers that we need.. What is it that you think is not there?

a mix between Skyrim, Morrowind, Far Cry, and Witcher's map.

I'll google something up.

it doesn't have to be such grandiouse that its super rare for a common adventurer. but the presentation of a "basic map" could be more..... interesting.

example: Far Cry, the story is, the guy uses his GPS device. But if you hit 'M', it shows like a live satellite feed.... I don't need THAT, but something with more cool factor.

Davadin

So this,
https://youtu.be/hL9pd43ajd8

mix with a bit of


and
https://youtu.be/SvClpJ0DDu0


and others....