On the topic of "permablocking". Math and Fiction.

gard

Gargragrond wrote: »

With current TTK averaging <5s, I'm not surprised if some people thought screw this, I just try to stay alive by whatever means. Good for them. I've seen couple heavy armor dks that were able to block enough to make them virtually unkillable in 1v1. They did 0 damage though, and they are the least of my worries. I'm sure that sorc/nb that builds only for shielding/bolting or rolling around would be equally unkillable.

Anyway, if you are hell bent to bring that tank down, you should remember that blocking targets do not catch dots (this is why the tanking is possible in the first place..) You need some unblockable stun to open a window to apply your dots, or better yet, some ground effects such as caltrops.

NB fear isn't blockable. NB with fear and caltrops == the anti tank

Attorneyatlawl

Araxleon wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Readily available skills that deal multiple hits, and thus consume multiple hits' worth of stamina from the enemy to block them (the base stamina cost for blocking a hit, regardless of how strong, is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally) combined with light attacks weaved in make it very easy to be dealing anywhere between 5 to 10 hits within a one and a half second timespan in both Magicka and Stamina builds. The counters are already in the game. It is up to you to use them. If you are holding down block against someone who knows how to play, you will run out of stamina rapidly while snaring yourself and being unable to light attack or medium attack weave, thus lowering your damage output substantially in the process. It is balanced, and the counters are available to every single character in the game through weapon skill lines. Continuous blocking, a "defense" often cited in balance discussions, is quite literally not feasible, practical, or sustainable against just one knowledgeable player currently. If attempted against multiple knowledgeable players, it is wholly unusable.

Quick proof:

If you fight my nightblade and try to hold down block, wearing a sword and shield with five pieces of medium armor and two heavy items, alongside two epic Reduce Feat Cost glyphs on your jewelry which results in your block costing 1251 stamina per hit against it to mitigate the damage, I will drain 7,506 (seven thousand, five-hundred and six) stamina from you per second while attacking if I notice you trying to hold down block unless I make an error in my attacks, which is my fault at that time and not the enemy's. Even if you are stacking Stamina regeneration you will cap out in any build that can hurt anything still at around 1,250-1,300 stamina regeneration each second (2,500-2,600 regeneration rating which ticks to restore it every two seconds, so half of that per second). Stamina builds tend to top out around 28,000-32,000 stamina in Cyrodiil, and if you attack with any stamina ability at that point just once every two seconds that costs 2,000 stamina, I will have emptied your stamina resources from completely full (100%) to zero inside of a four to four-and-a-half second timeframe during combat.

The same holds true against my Sorcerer and my Dragonknight, and Templars one-up everyone on this front if they use a class-line skill (Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep) against an enemy "permablocking". Other skills on the Nightblade and the Dual Wield skill line can also match or exceed this output.

NB tank, Siphoning attacks. Soul Trap, Cripple/entropy (maybe caltrops requires to drop block)
they all have a 15% chance to proc a 15% restore in Stamina/Magicka. (more dots on one person the more it will proc, more people in caltrops the more it will proc)

I mean thats the only scenario I have run into where someone can truly perma block

Pretty much, yes. That's essentially my point, however: the common complaint of "I ran into a perma-blocker and can't kill him alone!" or "He's living against 20 people beating on him, this is broken!" isn't because of block but rather the overall combination of skills, and you have to give up just shy of everything to do it.

For those asking how the block cost reductions actually work (and it is not simply percentages added together), I'd encourage you to either test it yourself or request in feedback to ZOS that important character information like this and other things be implemented into the UI. For those asking how to hit a lot of times quickly, I'd suggest testing and brainstorming a little bit; they're not immediately obvious, but you can figure them out with a moderate amount of effort to enhance your build . It's a good thing to learn, and will help you help yourself when playing in the future to boot! I dropped a few starting-point hints in my OP purposefully .

Sharee

https://youtu.be/Xr47BiUZYio

BlackBacon

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

That isn't how cost reductions work as of 1.6+ .

According to this thread most of the block cost reductions are actually still additive after 1.6.

Flat cost reductions from Jewelry Enchantments are removed first. Bracing, Fortress, & Absorb Magic are all additive for a 58% reduction. The Champion Point "Block Expertise" is multiplicative for an additional 25% reduction.

(2160-600)*.75*.42= 491 Stamina

Obscure

gard wrote: »

Gargragrond wrote: »

With current TTK averaging <5s, I'm not surprised if some people thought screw this, I just try to stay alive by whatever means. Good for them. I've seen couple heavy armor dks that were able to block enough to make them virtually unkillable in 1v1. They did 0 damage though, and they are the least of my worries. I'm sure that sorc/nb that builds only for shielding/bolting or rolling around would be equally unkillable.

Anyway, if you are hell bent to bring that tank down, you should remember that blocking targets do not catch dots (this is why the tanking is possible in the first place..) You need some unblockable stun to open a window to apply your dots, or better yet, some ground effects such as caltrops.

NB fear isn't blockable. NB with fear and caltrops == the anti tank

These PvP permablock builds are gradually all adopting the practice of sustained CC immunity: 15 seconds from potion (which also restores health and stamina and increasing the recovery of both by 20% for 40 seconds), 13 seconds (+5% longer per heavy armour piece) from Unstoppable.

The DK's just maintain Spike Armour, keep up Eruption, and a couple use it with Spiked Bone Shield, just to let the attackers kill themselves while they build up enough ultimate to drop a Standard. Try to leave? Invasion. Try to stand and fight? They yawn at your damage, and slowly drain you down until you succumb to some of the lowest DPS you've ever seen. It's kinda like:

eventide03b14a_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

https://youtu.be/Xr47BiUZYio

I watch video like that and I wonder were are all the whining crying babies who post endlessly about shield stacking sorcs? Not a peep when there is a mechanic that essentially costs nothing while you can still cast other things. Disgusting hypocrites.

BlackBacon

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I watch video like that and I wonder were are all the whining crying babies who post endlessly about shield stacking sorcs? Not a peep when there is a mechanic that essentially costs nothing while you can still cast other things. Disgusting hypocrites.

Yeah. Look at those smug blockers sitting there like a rock while tickling their enemies to death with pathetic damage. They definitely deserve a nerf or 2. Maybe 3.

eventide03b14a_ESO

BlackBacon wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I watch video like that and I wonder were are all the whining crying babies who post endlessly about shield stacking sorcs? Not a peep when there is a mechanic that essentially costs nothing while you can still cast other things. Disgusting hypocrites.

Yeah. Look at those smug blockers sitting there like a rock while tickling their enemies to death with pathetic damage. They definitely deserve a nerf or 2. Maybe 3.

Are you kidding? You're actually going to defend this with sarcasm and not substance? Good job.

hamon

oh ye definetly nerf the guys who are built to kill you over maybe 30 seconds ,,, but leave those sorcs who can kill you in maybe 3 seconds alone......

golfer.dub17_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Are you kidding? You're actually going to defend this with sarcasm and not substance? Good job.

Does it deserve anything more?

Guy posts a PvE vid of someone blocking trash mobs that attack once every few seconds as if that means anything.

Sharee

Obscure wrote: »

The DK's just maintain Spike Armour, keep up Eruption, and a couple use it with Spiked Bone Shield, just to let the attackers kill themselves while they build up enough ultimate to drop a Standard. Try to leave? Invasion. Try to stand and fight? They yawn at your damage, and slowly drain you down until you succumb to some of the lowest DPS you've ever seen.

Draining someone down with low DPS just does not happen in PvP. I was fighting a DK like that with my NB. All i had to do to negate his damage was to keep rally up. After a while we realized neither can kill the other, so we waved and went separate ways.

xarguideb17_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

BlackBacon wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I watch video like that and I wonder were are all the whining crying babies who post endlessly about shield stacking sorcs? Not a peep when there is a mechanic that essentially costs nothing while you can still cast other things. Disgusting hypocrites.

Yeah. Look at those smug blockers sitting there like a rock while tickling their enemies to death with pathetic damage. They definitely deserve a nerf or 2. Maybe 3.

Are you kidding? You're actually going to defend this with sarcasm and not substance? Good job.

Whining sorcerers everywhere.
Why are sorcs such crybabies

Hypertionb14_ESO

i was able to walk half the distance between keeps blocking continusly against 2 guys trying to kill me.

in the end they gave up because they didnt want to deal with the NPCs at the Farm i had block walked all the way too.

this is recent... 2.0 recent.

as others have mentioned, cost reduction and Regen combined with stuff like evade is enough that on the right build a single person can literally block forever and still have enough stamina to Break Free when needed...

there are some counter builds, like mentioned that use several hits a second to try and drain faster, but a majority of the builds will only be sending a few hits a second.

BuggeX

The most anyoing part of blocking is when Templer are coming with soulassault and beam you dead with the Jesus beam.....