On the topic of "permablocking". Math and Fiction.

Attorneyatlawl

Readily available skills that deal multiple hits, and thus consume multiple hits' worth of stamina from the enemy to block them (the base stamina cost for blocking a hit, regardless of how strong, is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally) combined with light attacks weaved in make it very easy to be dealing anywhere between 5 to 10 hits within a one and a half second timespan in both Magicka and Stamina builds. The counters are already in the game. It is up to you to use them. If you are holding down block against someone who knows how to play, you will run out of stamina rapidly while snaring yourself and being unable to light attack or medium attack weave, thus lowering your damage output substantially in the process. It is balanced, and the counters are available to every single character in the game through weapon skill lines. Continuous blocking, a "defense" often cited in balance discussions, is quite literally not feasible, practical, or sustainable against just one knowledgeable player currently. If attempted against multiple knowledgeable players, it is wholly unusable.

Quick proof: If you fight my nightblade and try to hold down block, wearing a sword and shield with five pieces of medium armor and two heavy items, alongside two epic Reduce Feat Cost glyphs on your jewelry which results in your block costing 1251 stamina per hit against it to mitigate the damage, I will drain 7,506 (seven thousand, five-hundred and six) stamina from you per second while attacking if I notice you trying to hold down block unless I make an error in my attacks, which is my fault at that time and not the enemy's. Even if you are stacking Stamina regeneration you will cap out in any build that can hurt anything still at around 1,250-1,300 stamina regeneration each second (2,500-2,600 regeneration rating which ticks to restore it every two seconds, so half of that per second). Stamina builds tend to top out around 28,000-32,000 stamina in Cyrodiil, and if you attack with any stamina ability at that point just once every two seconds that costs 2,000 stamina, I will have emptied your stamina resources from completely full (100%) to zero inside of a four to four-and-a-half second timeframe during combat. The same holds true against my Sorcerer and my Dragonknight, and Templars one-up everyone on this front if they use a class-line skill (Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep) against an enemy "permablocking". Other skills on the Nightblade and the Dual Wield skill line can also match or exceed this output.

Cody

wish this was the reality of it when i tried draining peoples stamina with dark shades, rapid strikes, weaving in light and heavy attacks...

and when forcing people to CC break fear. or petrify, or some form of CC

and when they had roll dodged about 3-5 times....

and maybe used other stamina based abilities..

and having applied some type of DOT to them....

I usually blame myself ..... though i will admit, there have been times where someone SHOULD NOT have been able to block as much as they did..... its infuriating

its even worse when it was someone with a staff........

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CURSE YOU SHEOGORATH

Glory

Cody wrote: »

wish this was the reality of it when i tried draining peoples stamina with dark shades, rapid strikes, weaving in light and heavy attacks...

and when forcing people to CC break fear. or petrify, or some form of CC

and when they had roll dodged about 3-5 times....

and maybe used other stamina based abilities..

and having applied some type of DOT to them....

I usually blame myself ..... though i will admit, there have been times where someone SHOULD NOT have been able to block as much as they did..... its infuriating

its even worse when it was someone with a staff........

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CURSE YOU SHEOGORATH

All of the above is true. Theories are just theories, and there are plenty of players who are able to block tank against multiple players for significantly longer than the 4.5 seconds you are claiming. I would love to see a video of some of the better tanky players get their stamina drained by you in 4.5 seconds.

Also, you are not accounting for other passives, heavy armor, champion points. My calcs have minimum block cost around 600-800.

Attorneyatlawl

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

wish this was the reality of it when i tried draining peoples stamina with dark shades, rapid strikes, weaving in light and heavy attacks...

and when forcing people to CC break fear. or petrify, or some form of CC

and when they had roll dodged about 3-5 times....

and maybe used other stamina based abilities..

and having applied some type of DOT to them....

I usually blame myself ..... though i will admit, there have been times where someone SHOULD NOT have been able to block as much as they did..... its infuriating

its even worse when it was someone with a staff........

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CURSE YOU SHEOGORATH

All of the above is true. Theories are just theories, and there are plenty of players who are able to block tank against multiple players for significantly longer than the 4.5 seconds you are claiming. I would love to see a video of some of the better tanky players get their stamina drained by you in 4.5 seconds.

Also, you are not accounting for other passives, heavy armor, champion points. My calcs have minimum block cost around 600-800.

This is hard data from testing and copied to paper . In the scenario outlined in the OP, that is the duration you can block at maximum against that attack setup. Obviously, and as mentioned, there are other cost reductions available which can get you to 900-1000 block cost, but you sacrifice a significant amount of options to reach that level. Additionally, as outlined, I was not including potions because not all potions are stamina restorations, or taking into account higher stamina regeneration numbers than ~2,500-2,600 rating because setups designed to eclipse that simply cannot fit enough damage stats to be a threat (4200+ regen i.e. 2100/second). Please read through the post if you would like to discuss the topic , so everyone's on the same page as to the mechanics and what is being talked about.

Ley

I agree that just holding block non stop is a terrible tactic, if I see someone holding block I just spam light attacks/piercing jabs/dots/cc and most likely, they just got themselves killed. However between potions and stamina regen, players only need to get away from you for a few seconds and they're back up to full stamina in no time. So if they throw a few dodge rolls into the mix, break line of sight for a few seconds, they're ready to block again. Point being, it can often feel like someone is perma-blocking because you're not able to apply a constant stamina drain on them, even if you laps for only for a few moments.

MisterBigglesworth

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

there are other cost reductions available which can get you to 900-1000 block cost, but you sacrifice a significant amount of options to reach that level. Additionally, as outlined, I was not including potions because not all potions are stamina restorations, or taking into account higher stamina regeneration numbers than ~2,500-2,600 rating because setups designed to eclipse that simply cannot fit enough damage stats to be a threat

That leads to the bigger design question: should someone be able to make themselves virtually unkillable, even if it means they themselves cannot do enough damage to kill you?

On the flip-side, should someone be able to give up so much of their own survivability with a glass cannon build that can literally 1-shot you? (disclaimer: 2 attacks on your death re-cap before you even realize you've been attacked still counts as a 1-shot)

To both these questions I say NO. Burst is too high. Mitigation is too high. They need to reign it back in both directions.

Bring back soft caps.

Attorneyatlawl

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

there are other cost reductions available which can get you to 900-1000 block cost, but you sacrifice a significant amount of options to reach that level. Additionally, as outlined, I was not including potions because not all potions are stamina restorations, or taking into account higher stamina regeneration numbers than ~2,500-2,600 rating because setups designed to eclipse that simply cannot fit enough damage stats to be a threat

That leads to the bigger design question: should someone be able to make themselves virtually unkillable, even if it means they themselves cannot do enough damage to kill you?

On the flip-side, should someone be able to give up so much of their own survivability with a glass cannon build that can literally 1-shot you? (disclaimer: 2 attacks on your death re-cap before you even realize you've been attacked still counts as a 1-shot)

To both these questions I say NO. Burst is too high. Mitigation is too high. They need to reign it back in both directions.

Bring back soft caps.

Good points on all counts @MisterBigglesworth, and a classy username to boot. While I supported (and still do) the removal of softcaps, the scaling on all of the stats in general is plain and simply too high as far as the benefit you gain from them, and this has lead to, at least against the majority of enemies, either them dying instantly because they didn't think of using any mitigation or active avoidance skills in their build, or them lasting forever because they thought of it and took it to such an extreme they are not easy to kill, despite posing little actual threat to you. The overall scaling does need to be tuned downwards some to raise the TTK (time to kill), or in other words make it slower again as it used to be to allow for longer fights where tactics, movement, reaction, and skill come into play.

While not an immediate design flaw of the game itself, many simply don't think how to make a more well-rounded or balanced build and the result is the majority is either wholly glass cannon (No softcaps!? I can stack damage to the moooooon!) or almost fully troll-like-never-die (No softcaps?! I can stack health and block cost reduction to turn into a boulder to rival the core of the Earth!!!!!) .

The system itself would work better by far if players overall experimented with what they can do (and either extreme gives you a weaker character than going even 20% away from full glass-cannon or never-die type setups towards the other end, i.e. 80% offensive and 20% defensive or vice versa rather than 100% or 100%), but as other MMO games have encountered when opening their build systems further, a large number of people just don't even look, instead stacking everything into just one or two stats or copying anyone's pre-made build they can find.

Some titles in the past such as Rift instituted "recommended starting builds" with an in-game attachment on the skills window and an explanation of how & why it was created, culled from some of the more popular community ones as well as combining community feedback to maintain them. This gave people a starting point and educated them as to the game's mechanics and the possibilities in making your own, and it was both well-received and effective. The Secret World had a similar idea implemented and also saw a much larger variety of builds cropping up in-game.

Obscure

Important to note:

• Stamina Potions are prevalent (particularly those granting 15 sec CC immunity with Medicinal Use passive) providing in excess of 5k stamina.
• Dragonknight Earthen Heart abilities restore 5% of Stamina per cast (assuming just 20k stamina that's 1000 Stamina return), with skills that can be cast while holding block (typical block casting), thus assuming just a 10k Magicka pool and casting Eruption, about 3-4k stamina can be pumped in to sustain the block.
• Dragonknight Battle Roar recovers resources based on Ultimate cost, and one need only sustain a block long enough to activate one for even deeper reserves (Standard of Might or Bat Swarm being the go-to options)
• Even a partially charged Heavy Attack will restore stamina (block weaving to sustain against melee attackers)

Suffice it to say, I would never count on burning out a target's stamina, especially a properly specialised DK permablocker, in anything near 4-5 seconds. That's at least a 4-5 minute fight, like every time. Typically I'm burnt before they are, since they are built for stamina sustain, and have spent most of the fight completely CC immune. Standing off at range tends to be an impossibility as well, thanks to Invasion.

Seriously, the build is ridiculous. There's just a battery of mechanics to abuse when blocking is involved.

Sharee

Obscure wrote: »

Important to note:

• Stamina Potions are prevalent (particularly those granting 15 sec CC immunity with Medicinal Use passive) providing in excess of 5k stamina.
• Dragonknight Earthen Heart abilities restore 5% of Stamina per cast (assuming just 20k stamina that's 1000 Stamina return), with skills that can be cast while holding block (typical block casting), thus assuming just a 10k Magicka pool and casting Eruption, about 3-4k stamina can be pumped in to sustain the block.
• Dragonknight Battle Roar recovers resources based on Ultimate cost, and one need only sustain a block long enough to activate one for even deeper reserves (Standard of Might or Bat Swarm being the go-to options)
• Even a partially charged Heavy Attack will restore stamina (block weaving to sustain against melee attackers)

Suffice it to say, I would never count on burning out a target's stamina, especially a properly specialised DK permablocker, in anything near 4-5 seconds. That's at least a 4-5 minute fight, like every time. Typically I'm burnt before they are, since they are built for stamina sustain, and have spent most of the fight completely CC immune. Standing off at range tends to be an impossibility as well, thanks to Invasion.

Seriously, the build is ridiculous. There's just a battery of mechanics to abuse when blocking is involved.

Adding to the list, heavy armor passive returns resources when damaged.

Also, using rapid strikes again a blocking DK with razor armor up results in the attacker taking more damage than he inflicts.

Sublime

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally)

Bracing and Fortress alone give you 50% Block Cost reduction 2160*0.5=1080. If you add the CS Passive you can get up to a total of 75% 2160*0.25=540.

Apart from that, which skills are you referring to that drain so much Stamina? (Concrete answer plx)

Dositheus

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Readily available skills that deal multiple hits, and thus consume multiple hits' worth of stamina from the enemy to block them (the base stamina cost for blocking a hit, regardless of how strong, is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally) combined with light attacks weaved in make it very easy to be dealing anywhere between 5 to 10 hits within a one and a half second timespan in both Magicka and Stamina builds. The counters are already in the game. It is up to you to use them. If you are holding down block against someone who knows how to play, you will run out of stamina rapidly while snaring yourself and being unable to light attack or medium attack weave, thus lowering your damage output substantially in the process. It is balanced, and the counters are available to every single character in the game through weapon skill lines. Continuous blocking, a "defense" often cited in balance discussions, is quite literally not feasible, practical, or sustainable against just one knowledgeable player currently. If attempted against multiple knowledgeable players, it is wholly unusable.

Quick proof: If you fight my nightblade and try to hold down block, wearing a sword and shield with five pieces of medium armor and two heavy items, alongside two epic Reduce Feat Cost glyphs on your jewelry which results in your block costing 1251 stamina per hit against it to mitigate the damage, I will drain 7,506 (seven thousand, five-hundred and six) stamina from you per second while attacking if I notice you trying to hold down block unless I make an error in my attacks, which is my fault at that time and not the enemy's. Even if you are stacking Stamina regeneration you will cap out in any build that can hurt anything still at around 1,250-1,300 stamina regeneration each second (2,500-2,600 regeneration rating which ticks to restore it every two seconds, so half of that per second). Stamina builds tend to top out around 28,000-32,000 stamina in Cyrodiil, and if you attack with any stamina ability at that point just once every two seconds that costs 2,000 stamina, I will have emptied your stamina resources from completely full (100%) to zero inside of a four to four-and-a-half second timeframe during combat. The same holds true against my Sorcerer and my Dragonknight, and Templars one-up everyone on this front if they use a class-line skill (Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep) against an enemy "permablocking". Other skills on the Nightblade and the Dual Wield skill line can also match or exceed this output.

I've only seen DKs who are able to do the perma blocking thing in 1.6. But there are two of them from DC side on Azura, that as far as I've seen.. are neigh unkillable. We had 6 V14s beating on one for a good 3 minutes straight as we chased him after we'd killed his buddies. He wasn't doing any damage, but he was not killable. I feared him everytime his immunity was up, and we were attacking him constantly. I later fought him 1 on 1, and he wasn't able to do any noticable damage to me, but once again... no way to kill him. Between pots, and DK stam regen, and whatever reduction stuff he had going... theory crafting or not, he was unkillable. Another DC and I were chatting about it because it was funny. The DK came to rez his NB buddy, but I sat there trying to kill him for a good 4 minutes solo. Feared over and over, and regardless of burst, he wouldn't go down. It actually gave me a chuckle to see that the perma blocker is possible again. Just not popular. The DC I was talking to, was the NB he was trying to rez.

TagaParti

Ever heard of Sheliza permablocking 24 enemies?
So no question about permablocking 1 good player.
Not a viable defense?
Wondering they called Sheliza "The Unkillable"

With all those theories, do yourself a favor Sir,
watch it ingame
NA Server, EP faction, noone has killed me 1on1
since I tweaked my build to be Unkillable in 1.6.
The fight with Ezareth was my build in 1.5, with all the changes
he was able to wear me down.
Only 1 player dared to challenge my Unkillable build 1.6 version.
His name is Kosmoko, one of the best NB in the game from DC, leading
the leaderboard by killing anyone on his path.
But after our fight, he begs for another chance which I might
give him later this week.

All players seeking for the perfect build, message me ingame,
challengers are welcome as well.

Methuselah

Dont forget you can use a tri pot, or stam pot and right after use wep pot. all stam builds should be exploiting this.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Methuselah wrote: »

Dont forget you can use a tri pot, or stam pot and right after use wep pot. all stam builds should be exploiting this.

What? I haven't noticed this...

The_Drexill

This is one of those things that sounds really good on paper, but the reality is far from. The idea that you're using any skill that drains that much, that quick in an actual PvP scenario is laughable. I guess if the enemy tank is just holding block down and doing literally nothing else... you could spam rapid strikes, or force shock with light attack weaves, and eventually you will drain them. However, you'll need to be defensive too, since that tank is hitting you back with Flame Whip, or Surprise attack/concealed, or whatever... while holding block down.

Merlin13KAGL

TagaParti wrote: »

Ever heard of Sheliza...

You should really consider therapy.

Sensesfail13

The_Drexill wrote: »

This is one of those things that sounds really good on paper, but the reality is far from. The idea that you're using any skill that drains that much, that quick in an actual PvP scenario is laughable. I guess if the enemy tank is just holding block down and doing literally nothing else... you could spam rapid strikes, or force shock with light attack weaves, and eventually you will drain them. However, you'll need to be defensive too, since that tank is hitting you back with Flame Whip, or Surprise attack/concealed, or whatever... while holding block down.

I would agree but... flame whip is useless as a tank really it scales off of magic and most usually you arent going to find one on one fights when youre a tank I have not had luck running into less than 3 people in months because everybody on DC and EP seems to run in packs anymore. And you usually have at least one wrecking blow class and if you get hit with multiple blows of wrecking blow while blocking the second or third one just ignores you blocking altogether and flings you through the air... so much for blocking right?

Methuselah wrote: »

Dont forget you can use a tri pot, or stam pot and right after use wep pot. all stam builds should be exploiting this.

That is a lie. All potions are on cooldown once you use one or the other unless you have it glitched out.

TagaParti wrote: »

Ever heard of Sheliza permablocking 24 enemies?
So no question about permablocking 1 good player.
Not a viable defense?
Wondering they called Sheliza "The Unkillable"

With all those theories, do yourself a favor Sir,
watch it ingame
NA Server, EP faction, noone has killed me 1on1
since I tweaked my build to be Unkillable in 1.6.
The fight with Ezareth was my build in 1.5, with all the changes
he was able to wear me down.
Only 1 player dared to challenge my Unkillable build 1.6 version.
His name is Kosmoko, one of the best NB in the game from DC, leading
the leaderboard by killing anyone on his path.
But after our fight, he begs for another chance which I might
give him later this week.

All players seeking for the perfect build, message me ingame,
challengers are welcome as well.

You cant permablock 24 enemies... and sheliza wasnt unkillable she was just a troll. Plus the multi-tank build isnt viable at all right now because of the "you cant gain ultimate while tanking multiple enemies bug in cyrodiil". I think the most players I could tank and gain ultimate was 4, over 4 and I was a waste of space because I cant do burst damage and all of my cc's have been nerfed into the ground... you guessed it Im a dk. Good luck with that perfect build though.

eventide03b14a_ESO

What's the purpose of this thread anyway? Nobody is complaining about perma-blocking anymore. It's the unlimited dodge rolling that is the new flavor of the month. No amount of hardened ward and bolt escape can possibly match the survivability and maneuverability of someone with a seemingly endless supply of stamina. But nerf sorc, right?

BlackBacon

Sublime wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally)

Bracing and Fortress alone give you 50% Block Cost reduction 2160*0.5=1080. If you add the CS Passive you can get up to a total of 75% 2160*0.25=540.

Apart from that, which skills are you referring to that drain so much Stamina? (Concrete answer plx)

These reductions actually stack multiplicatively.

Bracing (20%), Fortress (30%), Champion Passive Block Expertise (25%) totals:
8*.7*.75 =.42 (58% reduction) .42*2160=907

Throw in Defensive Posture (8%) .42*.92= .386 *2160 = 834

Sublime

MalachiCrossb14_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally)

Bracing and Fortress alone give you 50% Block Cost reduction 2160*0.5=1080. If you add the CS Passive you can get up to a total of 75% 2160*0.25=540.

Apart from that, which skills are you referring to that drain so much Stamina? (Concrete answer plx)

These reductions actually stack multiplicatively.

Bracing (20%), Fortress (30%), Champion Passive Block Expertise (25%) totals:
8*.7*.75 =.42 (58% reduction) .42*2160=907

Throw in Defensive Posture (8%) .42*.92= .386 *2160 = 834

Interesting, I thought they stack additive like ultimate reduction does.

BlackBacon

Sublime wrote: »

MalachiCrossb14_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally)

Bracing and Fortress alone give you 50% Block Cost reduction 2160*0.5=1080. If you add the CS Passive you can get up to a total of 75% 2160*0.25=540.

Apart from that, which skills are you referring to that drain so much Stamina? (Concrete answer plx)

These reductions actually stack multiplicatively.

Bracing (20%), Fortress (30%), Champion Passive Block Expertise (25%) totals:
8*.7*.75 =.42 (58% reduction) .42*2160=907

Throw in Defensive Posture (8%) .42*.92= .386 *2160 = 834

Interesting, I thought they stack additive like ultimate reduction does.

I'm sorry, I looked into it and it appears you're correct. That's a bit ridiculous. You can attain 83% block cost reduction. 367 stamina cost total.

eventide03b14a_ESO

MalachiCrossb14_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

MalachiCrossb14_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally)

Bracing and Fortress alone give you 50% Block Cost reduction 2160*0.5=1080. If you add the CS Passive you can get up to a total of 75% 2160*0.25=540.

Apart from that, which skills are you referring to that drain so much Stamina? (Concrete answer plx)

These reductions actually stack multiplicatively.

Bracing (20%), Fortress (30%), Champion Passive Block Expertise (25%) totals:
8*.7*.75 =.42 (58% reduction) .42*2160=907

Throw in Defensive Posture (8%) .42*.92= .386 *2160 = 834

Interesting, I thought they stack additive like ultimate reduction does.

I'm sorry, I looked into it and it appears you're correct. That's a bit ridiculous. You can attain 83% block cost reduction. 367 stamina cost total.

You guys are losing sight of the big picture. Sorcs, nerf 'em. Am I right? Shield stacking and bolt escape and so on etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.... Come on it's all about how OP sorcs are.

Araxleon

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Readily available skills that deal multiple hits, and thus consume multiple hits' worth of stamina from the enemy to block them (the base stamina cost for blocking a hit, regardless of how strong, is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally) combined with light attacks weaved in make it very easy to be dealing anywhere between 5 to 10 hits within a one and a half second timespan in both Magicka and Stamina builds. The counters are already in the game. It is up to you to use them. If you are holding down block against someone who knows how to play, you will run out of stamina rapidly while snaring yourself and being unable to light attack or medium attack weave, thus lowering your damage output substantially in the process. It is balanced, and the counters are available to every single character in the game through weapon skill lines. Continuous blocking, a "defense" often cited in balance discussions, is quite literally not feasible, practical, or sustainable against just one knowledgeable player currently. If attempted against multiple knowledgeable players, it is wholly unusable.

Quick proof: If you fight my nightblade and try to hold down block, wearing a sword and shield with five pieces of medium armor and two heavy items, alongside two epic Reduce Feat Cost glyphs on your jewelry which results in your block costing 1251 stamina per hit against it to mitigate the damage, I will drain 7,506 (seven thousand, five-hundred and six) stamina from you per second while attacking if I notice you trying to hold down block unless I make an error in my attacks, which is my fault at that time and not the enemy's. Even if you are stacking Stamina regeneration you will cap out in any build that can hurt anything still at around 1,250-1,300 stamina regeneration each second (2,500-2,600 regeneration rating which ticks to restore it every two seconds, so half of that per second). Stamina builds tend to top out around 28,000-32,000 stamina in Cyrodiil, and if you attack with any stamina ability at that point just once every two seconds that costs 2,000 stamina, I will have emptied your stamina resources from completely full (100%) to zero inside of a four to four-and-a-half second timeframe during combat. The same holds true against my Sorcerer and my Dragonknight, and Templars one-up everyone on this front if they use a class-line skill (Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep) against an enemy "permablocking". Other skills on the Nightblade and the Dual Wield skill line can also match or exceed this output.

NB tank, Siphoning attacks. Soul Trap, Cripple/entropy (maybe caltrops requires to drop block)
they all have a 15% chance to proc a 15% restore in Stamina/Magicka. (more dots on one person the more it will proc, more people in caltrops the more it will proc)

I mean thats the only scenario I have run into where someone can truly perma block

Gargragrond

With current TTK averaging <5s, I'm not surprised if some people thought screw this, I just try to stay alive by whatever means. Good for them. I've seen couple heavy armor dks that were able to block enough to make them virtually unkillable in 1v1. They did 0 damage though, and they are the least of my worries. I'm sure that sorc/nb that builds only for shielding/bolting or rolling around would be equally unkillable.

Anyway, if you are hell bent to bring that tank down, you should remember that blocking targets do not catch dots (this is why the tanking is possible in the first place..) You need some unblockable stun to open a window to apply your dots, or better yet, some ground effects such as caltrops.

Imdrefan

I dunno. I can facetank 10-15 for a long time on my templar. Between purging and healing I can stay alive by myself for a long time. I can even tank 20 but not for as long.

nastuug

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

This is one of those things that sounds really good on paper, but the reality is far from. The idea that you're using any skill that drains that much, that quick in an actual PvP scenario is laughable. I guess if the enemy tank is just holding block down and doing literally nothing else... you could spam rapid strikes, or force shock with light attack weaves, and eventually you will drain them. However, you'll need to be defensive too, since that tank is hitting you back with Flame Whip, or Surprise attack/concealed, or whatever... while holding block down.

I would agree but... flame whip is useless as a tank really it scales off of magic and most usually you arent going to find one on one fights when youre a tank I have not had luck running into less than 3 people in months because everybody on DC and EP seems to run in packs anymore. And you usually have at least one wrecking blow class and if you get hit with multiple blows of wrecking blow while blocking the second or third one just ignores you blocking altogether and flings you through the air... so much for blocking right?

Methuselah wrote: »

Dont forget you can use a tri pot, or stam pot and right after use wep pot. all stam builds should be exploiting this.

That is a lie. All potions are on cooldown once you use one or the other unless you have it glitched out.

TagaParti wrote: »

Ever heard of Sheliza permablocking 24 enemies?
So no question about permablocking 1 good player.
Not a viable defense?
Wondering they called Sheliza "The Unkillable"

With all those theories, do yourself a favor Sir,
watch it ingame
NA Server, EP faction, noone has killed me 1on1
since I tweaked my build to be Unkillable in 1.6.
The fight with Ezareth was my build in 1.5, with all the changes
he was able to wear me down.
Only 1 player dared to challenge my Unkillable build 1.6 version.
His name is Kosmoko, one of the best NB in the game from DC, leading
the leaderboard by killing anyone on his path.
But after our fight, he begs for another chance which I might
give him later this week.

All players seeking for the perfect build, message me ingame,
challengers are welcome as well.

You cant permablock 24 enemies... and sheliza wasnt unkillable she was just a troll. Plus the multi-tank build isnt viable at all right now because of the "you cant gain ultimate while tanking multiple enemies bug in cyrodiil". I think the most players I could tank and gain ultimate was 4, over 4 and I was a waste of space because I cant do burst damage and all of my cc's have been nerfed into the ground... you guessed it Im a dk. Good luck with that perfect build though.

Sounds like you have a challenger @TagaParti

Attorneyatlawl

Sublime wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

is approximately 2160 before cost reductions which can get it down to ~1100-1200 generally)

Bracing and Fortress alone give you 50% Block Cost reduction 2160*0.5=1080. If you add the CS Passive you can get up to a total of 75% 2160*0.25=540.

Apart from that, which skills are you referring to that drain so much Stamina? (Concrete answer plx)

That isn't how cost reductions work as of 1.6+ .

Methuselah

Methuselah wrote: »

Dont forget you can use a tri pot, or stam pot and right after use wep pot. all stam builds should be exploiting this.

That is a lie. All potions are on cooldown once you use one or the other unless you have it glitched out.

Been like that since 1.6 and anyone can do it. You should probably test these things before calling someone a liar. Or are you trying to keep it a secret? whoops.

xarguideb17_ESO

OP, how can you make 10 attacks in 1.5 seconds?

BuggeX

With hist bark and elude, some med and heavy armor, high Stamina and recover you can outstand Long time.

gard

Note to self; read thread before posting