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End Game PvE is so ruined
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Dixa✭✭✭Interesting concept. Sometimes I forget that the majority of the ESO populace have never even cleared a single trial. They may not even care to. However, scaled dungeons would certainly up the ante. But there will always be a ceiling. A year from now people will be laughing at how much they sucked with 200 CP. And the trial that got scaled will eventually again become a joke.
How about just 'more end game raiding content'? Sanctum came out, when? *cough*. Take a hint from Everquest's Planes of Power. Areas that had to be conquered before progressing to the next raid. Sort of like a Craglorn quest crawl, but each area is a raid in itself.
This.
Marvel Heroes has a similiar system to these cp's. There cap is 7500. If you are not spending a crap ton of money in their cash shop and stacking a ton of xp pots, you may get a single point every 2 hours on average. Do the math on that one.
However because f2p games are funded entirely by whales, there is now a massive power divide that is preventing newer players from being allowed to even access end game content, because the new norm for REQUIRED STATS is to be maxed out on those points.
Elitism. Isolationism. This removes any incentive for long-term playing or loyalty to a game. It is also a side effect of these type of AA systems first pioneered in everquest. -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Let me put it in easier terms for you to understand.
Trials is the biggest source of the end game raiding, that's what it is. Dungeons are even more easier so I won't talk about that. I'm talking about every single raiding guild here. You clearly have no joined a raiding guild or haven't been a part of raiding in the end game for that long I take it? Please just stop posting in here with what you're saying, it's of no value to what the thread is about. You're completely missing the point and trying to go in a different direction
Maybe if you read the title of the thread you are posting in? your argument is of no value in here as I'm purely talking about trials, if the #100 score is even cruising through, theres a problem.Ugh what are you talking about, look at the leaderboards, the #100 time is 9201 that means that is a 63 minute clear.
The highest clear ever before this update was 57minutes.
Think about it for a second before posting such a comment like that next time.
there is more to this game than those leaderboards.
if THIS is all the game means to you then i'm sorry but it may be time you moved on to a game that actually focuses on leaderboards.
Trials are not the only source of endgame content.
The team for this game is not very big. They will NOT spend resources catering the game to a small percentage of the actual playerbase, and asking for such a thing is naive at best, ludicrous and self-entitled at worst.
I have been "raiding" in MUDs and mmorpgs since 1993. I have more experience than some of this playerbase has years alive.
My points are valid. Due to the sheer number of people who drop off during the long VR climb, there really are not that many of you doing trials, and even fewer of you doing trials with the ease you claim in the first post. If they added a hard mode to these trials, it would only cater to the handful of you who are trivializing the current content and add nothing to the rest of games community.
There are folks that i started with at launch in this game who play regularly and are nowhere near 200 cps. You do not represent the vast majority of anything.
You see, all the people raiding in trials, take a look at the score from 1#-#100. Alright, you get that? That's makes up around 80% of the vast majority of "end game raiders" are clearing trials with ease
Edited by Nifty2g on May 8, 2015 11:12PM#MOREORBS -
Mantic0r3✭✭✭usually after you have cleaned the current highest tier (would be sanctum for eso) everything else becomes trivial therefor the next tier has to be released in timely manner to keep raiding guilds in the game. ESO has failed this. Also the Dungeons which get released between two tiers are usually around that difficulty with a challange which is on par with the higher tier.
Again eso just doesnt release any content and everything the game has is not scaled to what we have.
CPs are not the issue hereEdited by Mantic0r3 on May 8, 2015 11:25PM -
Dixa✭✭✭usually after you have cleaned the current highest tier (would be sanctum for eso) everything else becomes trivial therefor the next tier has to be released in timely manner to keep raiding guilds in the game. ESO has failed this. Also the Dungeons which get released between to tiers are usually around that difficulty with a challange which is on par with the higher tier.
Again eso just doesnt release any content and everything we have is not scaled to what we have.
CPs are not the issue here
i actually agree with this, but given the vr grind is what it is they simply can not add more content to vr14 so long as people keep dropping off from the game before reaching that level.
that carrot has less value is people give up on the journey to get to it. -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Scaling to champion level would defeat the whole point of champion points. You get stronger, but content gets harder with you, so you don't actually get stronger? This makes leveling completely pointless.
A MMO of some fame called WoW is doing this since 10 years. People get to max level, then painfully complete end game, then voilà a new expansion comes and everybody are back to step 1.
They don't complain about the results.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't think they did a very good job with balancing content around the champion system. All players are still on the low of the total amount of Champion Points achievable and are already walking through content like it is nothing. Once people start amassing a year or so worth of champion points, people will be 2-4 manning trials.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired) -
Mantic0r3✭✭✭Scaling to champion level would defeat the whole point of champion points. You get stronger, but content gets harder with you, so you don't actually get stronger? This makes leveling completely pointless.
A MMO of some fame called WoW is doing this since 10 years. People get to max level, then painfully complete end game, then voilà a new expansion comes and everybody are back to step 1.
They don't complain about the results.
there is a huge difference between scaling and expansions. -
AttorneyatlawlCommunity AmbassadorAre we ever going to get scaled trials/dungeons based upon CP level? Because look at it, the average End Game PvE player, and by that I mean the ones on top of the leaderboards have around 200+ Champion Points, you are seeing clears in dungeons and skipping game mechanics because of how fast the DPS is against mobs because of the strength of the group wide DPS output. Zenimax I urge you, you might want to look into some of this because some of the trials if the DPS is high enough you can skip several mechanics in trials
This. Power inflation is starting to ramp up, and there needs to be a decision made as to how to handle it. No mechanics should be entirely ignorable and able to be skipped such as some in Veteran Dragonstar because of damage, or Trials. The solution to this would preferably be to add champion-rank based tiers, while additionally altering the mechanics causing some of the current issues at hand, to ensure fairer competition and defeating the encounters as intended.
tl;dr : /agreed @Nifty2g
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Drazhar14✭✭✭✭✭Scaling to champion level would defeat the whole point of champion points. You get stronger, but content gets harder with you, so you don't actually get stronger? This makes leveling completely pointless.
A MMO of some fame called WoW is doing this since 10 years. People get to max level, then painfully complete end game, then voilà a new expansion comes and everybody are back to step 1.
They don't complain about the results.
Well good thing ESO is it's own game and not WoW. That is one of the reasons I never have and never will play WoW. -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Scaling to champion level would defeat the whole point of champion points. You get stronger, but content gets harder with you, so you don't actually get stronger? This makes leveling completely pointless.
A MMO of some fame called WoW is doing this since 10 years. People get to max level, then painfully complete end game, then voilà a new expansion comes and everybody are back to step 1.
They don't complain about the results.
Well good thing ESO is it's own game and not WoW. That is one of the reasons I never have and never will play WoW.
Games like WoW are made for entry level, "quasi-monkey" players who are happy and ready to grind forever in useless circles.
However if you play online games for almost 2 decades like I have done, you discover how the players demographics consist exactly of monkey players.
MMOs that try not catering to these demographics, end up being unfortunate and unsuccesful niche games with ever lasting budget problems.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Man, I really hate it when I get a group where I don't just wipe over and over all night long...
Can someone at ZoS please fix this? I have entirely too much gold that I am not spending on repairs. Thanks!
Yeah don't you hate it when that happens. I mean we all come here to get damn frustrated and test the limits of our patience. If a dungeon doesn't make me want to headbutt my screen then it simply just doesn't not fulfill it's intended purpose.ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted) -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Man, I really hate it when I get a group where I don't just wipe over and over all night long...
Can someone at ZoS please fix this? I have entirely too much gold that I am not spending on repairs. Thanks!
Yeah don't you hate it when that happens. I mean we all come here to get damn frustrated and test the limits of our patience. If a dungeon doesn't make me want to headbutt my screen then it simply just doesn't not fulfill it's intended purpose.
Usually trying to complete a gold key daily dungeon makes me want to murder those around me.
Usually it's due to utter incompetence, lack of good sense (13k health VR 14 "tanks" and so on), but also of behavior. Today I did a "flash" gold key with 3 French guys and arrived at last boss they party kicked me because their close friend logged on and they told they wanted to do the last boss with him.
On the other side, I find it far less frustrating wiping 20 times learning Sanctum with guys who were diligent at preparing and put in some effort.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Man, I really hate it when I get a group where I don't just wipe over and over all night long...
Can someone at ZoS please fix this? I have entirely too much gold that I am not spending on repairs. Thanks!
Yeah don't you hate it when that happens. I mean we all come here to get damn frustrated and test the limits of our patience. If a dungeon doesn't make me want to headbutt my screen then it simply just doesn't not fulfill it's intended purpose.
Usually trying to complete a gold key daily dungeon makes me want to murder those around me.
Usually it's due to utter incompetence, lack of good sense (13k health VR 14 "tanks" and so on), but also of behavior. Today I did a "flash" gold key with 3 French guys and arrived at last boss they party kicked me because their close friend logged on and they told they wanted to do the last boss with him.
On the other side, I find it far less frustrating wiping 20 times learning Sanctum with guys who were diligent at preparing and put in some effort.
Oh . That is really a new level of [snip]baggery . I hope you enjoined your experience.
Edited by PBpsy on May 9, 2015 12:17AMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted) -
On target! No need to adjust the game to not a large number of strong guilds ,the fact that usually these guilds smooth out the Sanctuary Ophidia in constant composed of 12 players, new players in these groups will not take. I've been in those guilds... NO NEED to MAKE changes to the game for a bunch of players ! No need at this time to do trials of 12 players! Need more dungeons on 4 players and NEED to make a very difficult dungeon SOLO ! Yes solo! Just to make a very complex , available only for veterans 14 level , without worrying about what class the player , let the player himself thinks how will this dungeon, what equipment to wear and where you need to wear a Very challenging solo dungeon with a good reward. In my opinion the developers forgot about the solo players of high level. -
I didn't take it to trial SO that I don't speak very well English , but I understand the text and know tactics, my tank is one of the best, I SOLO'd come to 1 boss in the Sanctuary, killing all mobs.Man, I really hate it when I get a group where I don't just wipe over and over all night long...
Can someone at ZoS please fix this? I have entirely too much gold that I am not spending on repairs. Thanks!
Yeah don't you hate it when that happens. I mean we all come here to get damn frustrated and test the limits of our patience. If a dungeon doesn't make me want to headbutt my screen then it simply just doesn't not fulfill it's intended purpose.
Usually trying to complete a gold key daily dungeon makes me want to murder those around me.
Usually it's due to utter incompetence, lack of good sense (13k health VR 14 "tanks" and so on), but also of behavior. Today I did a "flash" gold key with 3 French guys and arrived at last boss they party kicked me because their close friend logged on and they told they wanted to do the last boss with him.
On the other side, I find it far less frustrating wiping 20 times learning Sanctum with guys who were diligent at preparing and put in some effort.
Oh . That is really a new level of [snip]baggery . I hope you enjoined your experience.
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ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭And the progression problems begin. It's only been a couple months too.Edited by ssewallb14_ESO on May 9, 2015 1:41AM -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Scaling content never works, we all saw this at WOW I think?
WOW has 4 difficulty settings, LFR which about 54% do, Normal which about 6.1% do, Heroic which about 2,8% do and Mythic which 0.9% do.
As a game developer looking at those stats must be heartbreaking. You spend months on a raid dungeon that only the half of your playerbase actually sees, while they almost all stop at the first raid difficulty! Not even 90% actually move out from the first difficulty, so that you have to ask yourself why should you be spending valuable resources for content that nobody except some nerds does.
Of course these number will change a bit more, since Blackhand is quite new still, but if we look at Highmaul then we still only see 1% doing the Mythic difficulty, while at least 70% do it on LFR.
As much I understand that nerds have it easy, after all they play a lot more and therefore have better items and more CP´s, its wrong to design a game for them. Sure ZOS could now add two more difficulties, but at what price?
Is it really worth it to keep housing, a solo AV on the hold, just because a few % don't find their current content hard enough? I just don't think so!
In my opinion, everything in an MMO should have 1 basic difficulty level and as further someone progresses in the game, as harder it will get. Level 50 must be harder than 1, just like VR 14 must be harder than VR1. But to add something like "VR 14 - 2.0, 3.0, 4.0..." just so that those already at VR 14 can find harder content seems silly and a waste of resources.Edited by Audigy on May 9, 2015 2:35AM -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are we ever going to get scaled trials/dungeons based upon CP level? Because look at it, the average End Game PvE player, and by that I mean the ones on top of the leaderboards have around 200+ Champion Points, you are seeing clears in dungeons and skipping game mechanics because of how fast the DPS is against mobs because of the strength of the group wide DPS output. Zenimax I urge you, you might want to look into some of this because some of the trials if the DPS is high enough you can skip several mechanics in trials
So not only do you want easier end game encounters but you want them to nerf because of Champion system? All 3 trails been cleared before Champ system...hows that possible then?
This tread seams nothing other then "OMG, I Cant do it first try while watching Simpsons! NERF".
What do you say kittah?
People, STOP blaming everything else then yourself for stuff you cant do. Buck up! Get better!Edited by Cogo on May 9, 2015 2:51AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!" -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Scaling to champion level would defeat the whole point of champion points. You get stronger, but content gets harder with you, so you don't actually get stronger? This makes leveling completely pointless.
Why dont everyone get this? Kinda obvious. I am getting worried for the human race evolving to not use their brain...Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!" -
Are we ever going to get scaled trials/dungeons based upon CP level? Because look at it, the average End Game PvE player, and by that I mean the ones on top of the leaderboards have around 200+ Champion Points, you are seeing clears in dungeons and skipping game mechanics because of how fast the DPS is against mobs because of the strength of the group wide DPS output. Zenimax I urge you, you might want to look into some of this because some of the trials if the DPS is high enough you can skip several mechanics in trials
So not only do you want easier end game encounters but you want them to nerf because of Champion system? All 3 trails been cleared before Champ system...hows that possible then?
This tread seams nothing other then "OMG, I Cant do it first try while watching Simpsons! NERF".
What do you say kittah?
People, STOP blaming everything else then yourself for stuff you cant do. Buck up! Get better!
Sure your in the right thread? What I see in this thread is top 1%ers crying that end game is to easy, not asking for nerfs. And if I had a dollar for every thread I've seen like this, I'd be a rich man. And I see it in every MMO I've ever played.Edited by TGWarlock on May 9, 2015 3:28AM -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
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The PVE end game was ruined way before the champion system. right around 1.2 when the community realised the single group PVE was basically 3 DPS and a heal, and again at 1.3 when trials were introduced people got a clear understanding they were DPS races , with a tank and 1 heal. The champion system had nothing to do with the destruction of this game.Are we ever going to get scaled trials/dungeons based upon CP level? Because look at it, the average End Game PvE player, and by that I mean the ones on top of the leaderboards have around 200+ Champion Points, you are seeing clears in dungeons and skipping game mechanics because of how fast the DPS is against mobs because of the strength of the group wide DPS output. Zenimax I urge you, you might want to look into some of this because some of the trials if the DPS is high enough you can skip several mechanics in trials
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Valymer✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »
The PVE end game was ruined way before the champion system. right around 1.2 when the community realised the single group PVE was basically 3 DPS and a heal, and again at 1.3 when trials were introduced people got a clear understanding they were DPS races , with a tank and 1 heal. The champion system had nothing to do with the destruction of this game.Are we ever going to get scaled trials/dungeons based upon CP level? Because look at it, the average End Game PvE player, and by that I mean the ones on top of the leaderboards have around 200+ Champion Points, you are seeing clears in dungeons and skipping game mechanics because of how fast the DPS is against mobs because of the strength of the group wide DPS output. Zenimax I urge you, you might want to look into some of this because some of the trials if the DPS is high enough you can skip several mechanics in trials
QFT and also nice username -
StevK44_ESO✭✭
Let me put it in easier terms for you to understand.
Trials is the biggest source of the end game raiding, that's what it is. Dungeons are even more easier so I won't talk about that. I'm talking about every single raiding guild here. You clearly have no joined a raiding guild or haven't been a part of raiding in the end game for that long I take it? Please just stop posting in here with what you're saying, it's of no value to what the thread is about. You're completely missing the point and trying to go in a different direction
Maybe if you read the title of the thread you are posting in? your argument is of no value in here as I'm purely talking about trials, if the #100 score is even cruising through, theres a problem.Ugh what are you talking about, look at the leaderboards, the #100 time is 9201 that means that is a 63 minute clear.
The highest clear ever before this update was 57minutes.
Think about it for a second before posting such a comment like that next time.
there is more to this game than those leaderboards.
if THIS is all the game means to you then i'm sorry but it may be time you moved on to a game that actually focuses on leaderboards.
Trials are not the only source of endgame content.
The team for this game is not very big. They will NOT spend resources catering the game to a small percentage of the actual playerbase, and asking for such a thing is naive at best, ludicrous and self-entitled at worst.
I have been "raiding" in MUDs and mmorpgs since 1993. I have more experience than some of this playerbase has years alive.
My points are valid. Due to the sheer number of people who drop off during the long VR climb, there really are not that many of you doing trials, and even fewer of you doing trials with the ease you claim in the first post. If they added a hard mode to these trials, it would only cater to the handful of you who are trivializing the current content and add nothing to the rest of games community.
There are folks that i started with at launch in this game who play regularly and are nowhere near 200 cps. You do not represent the vast majority of anything.
You see, all the people raiding in trials, take a look at the score from 1#-#100. Alright, you get that? That's makes up around 80% of the vast majority of "end game raiders" are clearing trials with ease
So those end-game raiders who have poured days into this game shouldn't have an easier time clearing the trials than a fresh face? 1% endgamers don't get the 63 minute vdsa on their first try. They play the game. Over and over. And as they get better the time gets lower and what you call "Ease" emerges. The game does a good job making trials difficult for casual players. While keeping the leaderboard race spirited as people figure out ways to raise their scores higher and higher. As a 182 CP, serious end-game raider. The only thing I want is more content. And a leaderboard wipe once the mundus exploit is fixed. -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah for me I am feeling about done. I really wanna play ESO but I don't care about doing the same thing over and over to do it faster than everyone. All I still really like is VDSA and VCOA and that's getting tired.
Log in grind cps whilst enlightened log off.
I think it's over till new content.
ETA: NOT that I do not think people doing this and getting top times aren't perfectly grand - but seeing new stuff and doing it is more fun for me than being number 1 on something after doing it over and over. I personally just like to do new stuff. Once it's done I personally rather teach new people who have not cleared stuff and help them get it than compete for best time.
To me either thing is perfectly valid - so don't think I am knocking leaderboard competitors or anything like that. Just been there, done that back before patch and just am over it for now.
It is just more fun now to have fun runs where people are still excited about clearing new (to them) content.
Best to all!Edited by Islyn on May 9, 2015 7:41AM -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
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Lol I was wearing my Dwemer set for the hell of it when running about farming and went to farm a Dwemer page and attack it a few times xD *dingdong*
