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So I'm torn with my new Templar: 2h or staff?

EramTheLiar
EramTheLiar
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My first and most-cherished character on ESO is a sorcerer, which I've managed to get up to v5 at this point (it takes me a long time to get anything done in this game) but lately I've been playing around with magic-based Templars. I'm finding it a lot more fun than I thought (and, ahem, a heck of a lot easier to play) but I've recently run into an issue I'm currently soliciting feedback on.

The Templar I've been playing around with is using a 2h sword, despite being magicka based, for the following reasons:

- I like jumping into melee, and I mostly use Aedric spear for that. However, 2H Brawler does give me a nice little dot and a damage bubble. Sure, it won't be as impressive as a stamina based build but the light and and heavy attacks are mostly just filler to build up my ultimate, and that damage bubble has been handy. Not sure if it will be at the higher levels, of course.

- for some reason 2H raises my magic-based damage higher than a staff, which is counter-intuitive but hey, MMO.

- redguard 2H swords look really cool.

However, the other day it occurred to me, since Aedric Spear is my primary attack... holding a staff in my hand when I cast Aedric spear would look REALLY FREAKING COOL.

Now I realize appearances aren't everything, but I figure "if Aedric spear is my primary attack anyway, and I'm using my weapon just for filler, maybe I ought to consider giving destro staff a try." In theory it would increase my ultimate faster since the light staff attacks are a lot faster than the light 2h attacks. My overall magic damage would decrease, which is weird, but hey, MMO. Also I'd have a ranged attack that costs nothing, and while I really like Vampire's Bane I wouldn't always need it, I could put it on my second bar and get something else. Maybe, I don't know, a staff spell.

Thing is, while I'm willing to give up a little performance in order to maximize my style I don't want to go crazy about it. And since I do tend to prefer to play melee (Focused Charge is too fun not to use) other than the points for style it really does seem like 2h has more advantages tactically than staff does. BUT I'm not really an expert, so I don't actually know.

Your thoughts? Thanks in advance.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    It's weird that your getting any kind of decent damage from 2H being a Magic Focused Templar.......

    Anyway, the 4th character I called a Main was a Templar and she is magic based. All she has had is a Destruction Staff. In fact, I have a Destro Staff on each bar. She has not developed any other weapon, at all. One bar I use for primarily Templar Skills (Reflecting Light, Jabs, Purifying Light, Jesus Beam, Breath of Life). The other bar I tend to use Destruction staff skills on, but really, Crushing Shock and Impulse are basically it, then it's Inner Light and other Templar Skills.

    So, pick up a staff and light up the world.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"

  • EramTheLiar
    EramTheLiar
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    I don't get any particular damage from the 2H as a melee weapon, but when I equip it my magic damage rating is higher than when I have a Destro staff equipped (same level, same color). I assumed that was affecting my spell damage...

    Are you primarily a ranged Templar? The reason I'm torn is I really do enjoy being in the thick of it (so far, at any rate) and I've been using the small damage shield from brawler combined with the heal from puncturing sweep to keep me going (with the instaheal in my back pocket if things get bad). It's worked out well so far, but I'm new to this templar thing and at some point the difficulty of fights might outlevel my spells and tactics.

    I suppose I could put 2h on one bar and destro staff on the other and see which one I like best...
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    Are you primarily a ranged Templar? The reason I'm torn is I really do enjoy being in the thick of it (so far, at any rate) and I've been using the small damage shield from brawler combined with the heal from puncturing sweep to keep me going

    What Alliance are you in?

    As for Ranged or Up Close, both. I soften them up with Reflecting Light, Shards or the Spear skill, then close in for Jabs. Or I just run in with the Jabs, but the Snare from Reflecting light is just too good a crowd control to not use it even up close. My Templar is the one I never worry about putting up shields for as the main attack, Jabs, heals her. If not, she has something from the Class to heal me. I think she has died twice in PvE, a couple of times in Vet Dungeons (where I am supposed to stay back and let the Tank do what they do best but I forget I am not the tank on this character and the game reminds me). I tend to forget she is in 5 Light/2 Heavy and a is a bit squishy to tank. Heals will do that for you, make you think your tougher than you really are. lol

    TBH, I never even added the second staff to her until she was in the 30's, and that was just for cleaning out the trash in Public Dungeons in a different way. Not because I needed it. In fact, if it was not for weaving in Light/Heavy Attacks to keep the mana pool regening, I would go weaponless on her.

    If anything, I use the Destro Staff focused bar on ranged, as the Backlash skill works great with weaving Crushing Shock and Light/Heavy Attacks. Then finish off with Radiant Destruction.

    The only time I worry about her dieing in a close in fight is with large numbers of mobs in public and group dungeons. Then I use Sun Shield and Radial Sweep to mitigate that damage.





    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"

  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
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    If you switch to a staff, add in Blazing Shield for your bubble. It works really well and also doubles as a damage aoe when it ends.
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    I don't get any particular damage from the 2H as a melee weapon, but when I equip it my magic damage rating is higher than when I have a Destro staff equipped (same level, same color). I assumed that was affecting my spell damage...

    Unless this skill tree is old (pre 1.6) I don't see any skill in 2 Handed that should increase your Magic Damage, there are skills that increase your Weapon Damage. Perhaps this is a unintended buff. We won't tell anyone if it is.

    One thing, you say your Magic Focused, does that mean all in with Magic on Attributes and Glyphs and armor sets? Or you doing a hybrid thing with Stamina and Magic?

    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"

  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
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    Nestor wrote: »
    I don't get any particular damage from the 2H as a melee weapon, but when I equip it my magic damage rating is higher than when I have a Destro staff equipped (same level, same color). I assumed that was affecting my spell damage...

    Unless this skill tree is old (pre 1.6) I don't see any skill in 2 Handed that should increase your Magic Damage, there are skills that increase your Weapon Damage. Perhaps this is a unintended buff. We won't tell anyone if it is.

    One thing, you say your Magic Focused, does that mean all in with Magic on Attributes and Glyphs and armor sets? Or you doing a hybrid thing with Stamina and Magic?

    Unfortunately your spell damage is higher with 2h weapons than a staff. There's a thread below discussing it already. I think it's a bug personally but who knows the official word on it.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167980/spell-damage-with-2-hand-and-staff
    Edited by Robbmrp on April 29, 2015 8:58PM
    NA Server - Kildair
  • EramTheLiar
    EramTheLiar
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    Nestor wrote: »
    I don't get any particular damage from the 2H as a melee weapon, but when I equip it my magic damage rating is higher than when I have a Destro staff equipped (same level, same color). I assumed that was affecting my spell damage...

    Unless this skill tree is old (pre 1.6) I don't see any skill in 2 Handed that should increase your Magic Damage, there are skills that increase your Weapon Damage. Perhaps this is a unintended buff. We won't tell anyone if it is.

    One thing, you say your Magic Focused, does that mean all in with Magic on Attributes and Glyphs and armor sets? Or you doing a hybrid thing with Stamina and Magic?

    As Robbmrp mentioned above, it's an oddity of the game. I have no idea if it's intentional, or will be patched at some point in the future, or... it was just one of the things I learned when I was researching Templar builds, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

    As to focus, at the moment I'm leveling and I don't think I can get away putting everything in magicka until the end game, when I have the luxury of choosing my equipment sets. Because I have one skill that uses stamina (2h sword brawler) I figure I need to put some in there, a little more into health, but mostly into magic. I'm working on a 1/3/6 distribution (stamina/health/magic) so it heavily favors magic but I guess I can't say it's "all in."

    If I switched to staff I could probably change that to a 1/3 distribution of health and magic, and drop the extra stamina allocation, since all I'd be doing with it is blocking and running around like a madman. I'm just... not convinced I should yet. I spent some time today switching between staff and 2h sword on my bars and it definitely feels like things die faster with 2h active. That could just be because I'm more used to it, though. The trouble with trying new things is it always feels like it's not working at first. :)
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    My current Templar is EP, if that is your alliance, we can run around and create some mayhem tonight. Then you can see what a staff Templar can do.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"

  • EramTheLiar
    EramTheLiar
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    I do have an EP char but he's still on Bleakrock.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    Templar? If so, lets go make some noise.

    I might port you to Coldharbor though just for grins and lulz. You will gain some levels that way hee hee.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"

  • Woolenthreads
    Woolenthreads
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    Hmmm.... I went Restoration Staff for my Templar Main but that's because she started as a healer when the Templar Magicka Management was bad. Back then you needed the Circle of Life Passive to restore your magicka and I still use it that way even now when I run low.
    Oooh look, lot's of Butterflies! Wait! Butterflies? Get out of here Sheo, stop bugging me!

    Having issues with Provisioning Writs? A list of problem Writs and people willing to help in game can be found in this Thread
  • EramTheLiar
    EramTheLiar
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    I have a deadline so I probably won't be on much tonight (I might, if the writing goes very well) but I'd definitely like the opportunity to follow around a Templar who knows what they're doing!
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
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    Nestor wrote: »
    I don't get any particular damage from the 2H as a melee weapon, but when I equip it my magic damage rating is higher than when I have a Destro staff equipped (same level, same color). I assumed that was affecting my spell damage...

    Unless this skill tree is old (pre 1.6) I don't see any skill in 2 Handed that should increase your Magic Damage, there are skills that increase your Weapon Damage. Perhaps this is a unintended buff. We won't tell anyone if it is.

    One thing, you say your Magic Focused, does that mean all in with Magic on Attributes and Glyphs and armor sets? Or you doing a hybrid thing with Stamina and Magic?

    As Robbmrp mentioned above, it's an oddity of the game. I have no idea if it's intentional, or will be patched at some point in the future, or... it was just one of the things I learned when I was researching Templar builds, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

    As to focus, at the moment I'm leveling and I don't think I can get away putting everything in magicka until the end game, when I have the luxury of choosing my equipment sets. Because I have one skill that uses stamina (2h sword brawler) I figure I need to put some in there, a little more into health, but mostly into magic. I'm working on a 1/3/6 distribution (stamina/health/magic) so it heavily favors magic but I guess I can't say it's "all in."

    If I switched to staff I could probably change that to a 1/3 distribution of health and magic, and drop the extra stamina allocation, since all I'd be doing with it is blocking and running around like a madman. I'm just... not convinced I should yet. I spent some time today switching between staff and 2h sword on my bars and it definitely feels like things die faster with 2h active. That could just be because I'm more used to it, though. The trouble with trying new things is it always feels like it's not working at first. :)

    Grab an Addon with a damage meter. Then you can see the results of both the 2h and Staff first hand. The difference may not be enough to worry about. Doundry Tactical Combat Addon is really good. You can see damage numbers on your screen as you do them as well as a log to review afterwards. Below's a link to it.

    http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info28-FoundryTacticalCombat.html
    NA Server - Kildair
  • EramTheLiar
    EramTheLiar
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    I've decided the only way to solve this is to create two Templars, one using 2H exclusively and one using Destro staff exclusively. The 2H is DC and is much farther along at the moment (24) and has hit a point where resource management isn't much of a concern. The Destro Staff is on EP and just got back to Davon's Watch after taking the Bleakrock detour. I can't really compare the two, since the EP Temp doesn't have the same # of skills slotted out.

    One observation I will make -- one that won't be true for all players, because playstyles differ -- because I like my individual characters to craft their own gear as they go, the Destro Staff Templar will be more expensive overall, since he'll need to devote points to three crafting skills (heavy, light, wood) and the 2H Templar only needs to devote points to 2. This is irrelevant to a lot of people who designate one character as "master crafter" and use that to provision the others. Ah well. :)
  • bloodenragedb14_ESO
    bloodenragedb14_ESO
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    my answer to these threads are always the same,

    CHOOSE WHAT YOU WILL HAVE MORE FUN WITH

    this is a roleplaying game, as such, pick what you will have more fun using.
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    2h will get you more dps. Staff will give you more versatility.
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • EramTheLiar
    EramTheLiar
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    my answer to these threads are always the same,

    CHOOSE WHAT YOU WILL HAVE MORE FUN WITH

    this is a roleplaying game, as such, pick what you will have more fun using.

    Yes, fine. That's a perfectly valid answer.

    But consider: I have had characters use 2H and Destro staff before, and I've enjoyed both. Since that's out of the way, there's PLENTY OF ROOM FOR OTHER ELEMENTS TO CONSIDER.
  • Mastahkid
    Mastahkid
    Soul Shriven
    My 2h magicka templar is truly a beast, high magic damage and survivability, plus a fun and easy way 2 play :smile:
    "Ain't nobody got time fo' that"
  • OzJohnD
    OzJohnD
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    My new alt Templar is 2H, medium armor stamina DPS build .. currently while leveling I have a Templar skill on my bar from all three skill lines because I want to passively level Templar, but I am going to be focusing mainly on stamina based 2H DPS and have a skill bar mainly 2H. Will probably be Bowing up my second skill bar. As you can see early days in the experiment.


    Not the typical use of a Templar really but I'm trying out something atypical because I can.
    Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.

    Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend




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