Do you feel ESO lacks class variety for longevity?

golfer.dub17_ESO

newtinmpls wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

I feel like the game lacks variety because the system itself is inherently biased against stamina.

Even with morphs, great...Magicka builds still get like 12 class skills exclusive to themselves.

What can a 2hand user do except spam wrecking blow?
What can a dual wield user do except spam rapid strikes?

I boggle at the idea of the above as serious questions.

I suppose that if someone were an OCD min/maxer and beleived that "spamming wrecking blow" was the "best" thing to do with 2h, then such a person might ask that question.

Luckily, that's not how I play.

I have two different orc/sorc/tank characters whose primary weapon is 2h. One uses Maul, the other uses 2h sword, as some of the passives are slightly different. I enjoy the differences.

Well, yeah, you don't have have to be a min/maxer to realize that...

Brawler is only used for AoE.
Executioner is only used for low health enemies (wrecking blow is still adequate in comparison...)
Crit charge is only used for when you need to close the gap. Once you do close the gap...wreckingblow-wreckingblow-wreckingblow.

Enlighten me, what are you doing different? Spamming light attacks?

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i think its lack of content that affects its longevity

newtinmpls

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Well, yeah, you don't have have to be a min/maxer to realize that...

Brawler is only used for AoE.
Executioner is only used for low health enemies (wrecking blow is still adequate in comparison...)
Crit charge is only used for when you need to close the gap. Once you do close the gap...wreckingblow-wreckingblow-wreckingblow.

Enlighten me, what are you doing different? Spamming light attacks?

Well Urgash gra Sharn (sorc/orc/2h sword) generally prefers to adventure with her sister (DK) and tends to Crystal shard from a distance, crit charge, uppercut (if she's lucky - into a wall - which is hilarious to watch) and alternate uppercuts with heavy attacks - if stamina drops off (not likely) throw another shard or two.

Mol gro Durga prefers to adventure with his partner (Templar healer) and if it's a mob (and she'll start by throwing around those little templar-y fireballs to attract everyone, daedra bless her) he'll use bound armor, thundering presence and expert hunter to start with, then get out the 1 hand/shield taunt (can't recall the name of it)a few; then when he's got the mobs after him, switch to 2hsword and cleave the heck out of them, taunt as needed. If it's a bigger single target (or a few) he'll do a charge (both 1h & shield and 2h have them - just depends which he's using).

Kaelaan

I have always been a min/maxer myself and played various MMOs. I have also played the previous ESO games. I started ESO on day one at the release of midnight (wasn't in the beta). I played for a couple of weeks and had fun. However, after a couple of weeks - I had to stop due to real life reasons.

Anyway, each time I came back - I had the issue that the OP was referring to. I was having a difficult time planning out a character's progression, trying to get to the end goal of RvR.. I mean .. AvA. So, I would end up playing one of my other MMOs instead, where I was already established.

Fast forward a year later, I still want to play this game and wasn't sure how. Then something clicked. After watching several videos of some fantastic skill paths for me to try out... the class selection in ESO doesn't feel the same as the class selection in other MMOs. In other MMO's, the class is the primary focus of how you want to play the game. However, in ESO - the class selection is usually the utility and secondary traits of how you want to play. Basically, augmenting your playstyle. The only major exception to this rule that I have noticed is the major crowd/group healing abilities tend to revolve around a single class.

There are not many other MMOs that allow you to create a Sorcerer who's primary attack damage is a two handed sword/axe/mace and is extremely successful. After playing a stamina based sorcerer that stuns and snares enemies, does massive burst melee damage, and wears leather armor instead of cloth - I started to get it.

I looked at the class selection AFTER I decided what kind of character I want to play now. It makes it much easier.

The only thing that I would like to see is possibly is to allow class to be changed after you create your character - thereby swapping out your 3 class skill lines and replacing them with the new class selection of skill lines. Also, as others have said, additional classes would be nice - possibly some highbreds of existing classes that aren't game breaking.

Wifeaggro13

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

A skill system originally hailed for its customization options doesn't appear to be truly that grand, when it comes to Elder Scrolls Online. In today's MMORPG environment min/maxxers are king. The significant majority of players have already calculated all the information, discovered the most capable (or efficient) builds in the game. Each build has a role or niche it excels in. Eventually players get bored of a role or niche they've been performing in and will desire to make a new character. For me personally, this is the case. But, as I sit here at the character select screen I am indecisive and even discouraged. None of the classes appeal to me because I already know what builds work later on and which ones are sub-par.

Do you agree? If so, why?
If not, explain why.

yes and part of the problem is this Lose role dilution. People whack on the trinity saying its archaic. Its only archaic because development teams made it that way. In the first generations of MMO's Like eq 1 and 2 there were at least 5 roles. The got rid of class's like bards enchanters that had extremely fun and dynamic combat. they did not put out big dps numbers but offered huge benefits and were absoloutley needed CC , and buffing . MMO's have been destroyed. ESO is pretty much 3 DPS and a heal /DPS hybrid for almost all of your veteran content. Boring predictable and lackslongevity

seanvwolf

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

A skill system originally hailed for its customization options doesn't appear to be truly that grand, when it comes to Elder Scrolls Online. In today's MMORPG environment min/maxxers are king. The significant majority of players have already calculated all the information, discovered the most capable (or efficient) builds in the game. Each build has a role or niche it excels in. Eventually players get bored of a role or niche they've been performing in and will desire to make a new character. For me personally, this is the case. But, as I sit here at the character select screen I am indecisive and even discouraged. None of the classes appeal to me because I already know what builds work later on and which ones are sub-par.

Do you agree? If so, why?
If not, explain why.

I don't agree, but I can empathize.

If you are thinking about what the builds are like now, you may be discouraged, but several class builds in the game have done a 180 and back again throughout the life cycle of ESO thus far, all with simple tweaks to certain skills. If you play the build you want, min/maxing be praised or damned, you'll find enjoyment. Homogeniety of player-based class builds is a fact of life and will continue to be there no matter how many classes you throw in or take away.

Eastern RPGs traditionally have a better time with balancing because in many of them they lock you down in one specific type of build for one particular character. But Western RPGs tend to be open for players to have an easier or harder time with the game with respect to their builds. It could be argued that it is the primary appeal of them. There are exceptions to either case however.

seanvwolf

I'm feeling saucy and since the servers are down, I'll spare the moment to alleviate my OCD.

Kaelaan wrote: »

I have also played the previous ESO games.

You mean TES. There is only one ESO.

Kaelaan wrote: »

I was having a difficult time planning out a character's progression, trying to get to the end goal of RvR.. I mean .. AvA.

AvAvA is accessible at level 10. Don't have to plan that far.

Everything after that I didn't find an issue with and agree.

Build a character that sounds fun to you. Some of us have said that all along. Who cares if you don't get into high-demand end game raid groups with this single character, there's 7 other character slots for you to do that with.

AlnilamE

I don't have that problem.

The most fun I have in the game is when my characters are running their "training bars". That is, a hodge-podge mix of skills that don't synergize because I'm leveling them. And I like the fact that you can essentially run a dungeon with 4 characters of the same class and still have your trinity.

Shadesofkin

There are some missing skills in this game, but I'm not unhappy with what is available. That being said, class as a starting point is something I've always preferred. One of the reasons I tend to play FATE or Cortex rather than D20 in tabletop is because I believe in having free form characters when it comes to skills and abilities.

Preyfar

I'm sad that classic concepts of ESO classes (e.g. the "Battlemage") aren't available. You can make your own hybrid, but... they were staples of Elder Scrolls games. And that said, I don't want to make more alts because the grind to get them up to VR14 is a task so daunting not even the Undaunted would want to tackle it.

Dragonphart

"Believe it or not, it's also killing dungeons and dragons on paper. So many players find ways to create broken mechanics that it makes the system inept.

This is the legacy left to the MMO

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Betahkiin wrote: »

No matter how many more classes they add, min / max users always going to go through the OP.

This is given by the lack of balance, but the problem is that the balance leads to ruin every game in where you try to impose.

For that there is roles within a company, so that each deal and stand on something specific and these qualities can not always deal as equals.

Problems like these carried games to the point of ruin where each class makes practically all equal and no major differences exist.

The sense of belonging is lost, specialization vanishes and games become a world of clones with different looks.

A great ally of this enemy is the PvP.

PvP + look for Balance = Role destroyed.

If in a video game like a MMORPG role is broken, there is only left an MMO.

In an MMO the only factor present is the massive effect, no distinctions present, it becomes tedious, boring and then people start to complain.

There are many examples of video games completely ruined by mixing PvP + Looking for Balance with PvE.

And it is this day I still do not understand because the developers can not think separate progressions and functionalities of each aspect giving them independence of each other.

While I agree that the push from players for 'balance' is a major fault in modern gaming, as it allows for no class diversity in the end as the only balance is when everybody has exactly the same things ...

I disagree, or at the very least feel like you were one-sided, on your attaching PvP as the great ally of evil. As I've experienced and had to point out multiple times, group PvErs call for balance fixes just as much as anybody else.

When a class is not needed for a trial or raid because they can't compete with sorcerers on damage output or sustainability, you are damn right a PvEr' si going to go to the forums and call for balance.

Let us not fall into the old act of blaming some other gametype that we personally don't care about for all the evils that hit us, conveniently ignoring all the evidence that both groups are equally to blame. As a Cancer and a born mediator, I feel the devs of life could provide us with just a little more balance in these debates.

Excellent point. I agree with you on this point. Today's gamer is all about min-maxing and being the king of the hill in PvP by them selves. The reason I enjoy this game is that it is a lot like DAoC where min-maxing would not really get your far and you had to run as a team, either in PvP or Dungeon crawls. I have noticed that since the game went B2P there are players,not all mind you, in the Delves have no interest in helping others. If they see someone in trouble they just run past. This is a shame. Although your character may not be the ultimate min-max in the group, you could add support that will help the group succeed.

So build a character for the way you like to play, support role if you like that, and find a good group that appreciates it and is looking it have fun.

Jaerlach

newtinmpls wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

I feel like the game lacks variety because the system itself is inherently biased against stamina.

Even with morphs, great...Magicka builds still get like 12 class skills exclusive to themselves.

What can a 2hand user do except spam wrecking blow?
What can a dual wield user do except spam rapid strikes?

I boggle at the idea of the above as serious questions.

I suppose that if someone were an OCD min/maxer and beleived that "spamming wrecking blow" was the "best" thing to do with 2h, then such a person might ask that question.

Luckily, that's not how I play.

I have two different orc/sorc/tank characters whose primary weapon is 2h. One uses Maul, the other uses 2h sword, as some of the passives are slightly different. I enjoy the differences.

It baffles you that some people want to do better than others or do things no one else has done?

People dont min max just to curbstomp mobs in craglorn. They do it because shaving 90s off a vet dsa run is the difference between a world record score and 10th place.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Well Urgash gra Sharn (sorc/orc/2h sword) generally prefers to adventure with her sister (DK) and tends to Crystal shard from a distance, crit charge, uppercut (if she's lucky - into a wall - which is hilarious to watch) and alternate uppercuts with heavy attacks - if stamina drops off (not likely) throw another shard or two.

Wrecking blow is uppercut. Crystal frags is a magicka ability.

PKMN12

Jaerlach wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

I feel like the game lacks variety because the system itself is inherently biased against stamina.

Even with morphs, great...Magicka builds still get like 12 class skills exclusive to themselves.

What can a 2hand user do except spam wrecking blow?
What can a dual wield user do except spam rapid strikes?

I boggle at the idea of the above as serious questions.

I suppose that if someone were an OCD min/maxer and beleived that "spamming wrecking blow" was the "best" thing to do with 2h, then such a person might ask that question.

Luckily, that's not how I play.

I have two different orc/sorc/tank characters whose primary weapon is 2h. One uses Maul, the other uses 2h sword, as some of the passives are slightly different. I enjoy the differences.

It baffles you that some people want to do better than others or do things no one else has done?

People dont min max just to curbstomp mobs in craglorn. They do it because shaving 90s off a vet dsa run is the difference between a world record score and 10th place.

as well as winning emperorship or losing a town in Cyrodiil to another group.

idk

4 classes and different racials provides a variety beyond that. Different mixes for tank vs healer etc. that alone at least doubles if not triples the available rolls one can do for highly effective characters. Granted. Some may have a different oppinion and that's all we have to offer here.