ZOS, are you happy with the current state of guild kiosks?

Wing

just curious, there are very few good locations. and because of the way the system is designed its causing a lot of bad blood and drama between guilds. I still like the overall idea btw, of no central AH and guild kiosks as an idea, I just think you need to tweak it a bit. there need to be less kiosks locations in the world but more kiosks at the good ones, so less travel is involved. I hesitate to say something like double the amount in places like mourn, rawl, elden, etc.

Cogo

No AH is one of the main reasons why the economy works very well.
There is daily trading in most zones non stop. This adds value for everyone. Would not exist with an AH

Guild stores ended up working really well. The bidding process for traders actually creates "content". All the main cities and Hubs have plenty of the,. And Update 6 added more with the justice system.
New class. Merchant.

No AH.

Thymos

Several threads on this very topic already.

Cogo

Thymos wrote: »

Several threads on this very topic already.

With several replies from ZoS saying "NO! Dont belong"

jluceyub17_ESO

I kinda like the far-flung kiosk locations, out by random wayshrines or minor quest hubs. I don't regularly use them, but if I find one while questing I'll take a look through to see if they have any good deals or mats priced low enough for me to buy and re-sell.

As for increasing the number of kiosks in public locations, I'd lean towards no, since it seems that, in mournhold at least, there's usually one or two guild stores that aren't offering much so I don't see how increasing the kiosks slots would improve that.

Zet-7

Guild kiosk is one of the few major gold sinks in this game.
And guild kiosks located in the middle of nowhere only gets a /shrug from me, I do not see the point.

As a consumer, the whole guild kiosk thingie is tiresome and something I steer away from.
If I want a item, then I do not want to race halfway across the world, searching for a guild kiosk that just might have the item.

It is like searching through large amounts of fleamarkets and auctions, except there is no information on what is for sale.

The kiosk system is a redundant idea.

But hey, if it is so wastly better than having a unified auction house, why not give us both?
Because surely an auction house can not compete against the superior guild kiosks, so what is there to lose.

jluceyub17_ESO

Zet-7 wrote: »

Guild kiosk is one of the few major gold sinks in this game.
And guild kiosks located in the middle of nowhere only gets a /shrug from me, I do not see the point.

As a consumer, the whole guild kiosk thingie is tiresome and something I steer away from.
If I want a item, then I do not want to race halfway across the world, searching for a guild kiosk that just might have the item.

It is like searching through large amounts of fleamarkets and auctions, except there is no information on what is for sale.

The kiosk system is a redundant idea.

But hey, if it is so wastly better than having a unified auction house, why not give us both?
Because surely an auction house can not compete against the superior guild kiosks, so what is there to lose.

I don't think anyone would argue that the guild trader system is more convenient than a global auction house would be, and being realistic, the most convenient option would win out if both systems were pitted against each other (just look at all the exploits and bugs MMO players use to level up/earn cash, we as a people always elect for the convenient option). However, the current system is probably better at keeping prices relatively stable while also serving as a large gold sink than a global auction house would be, which is why I hope that ZoS never backs down in its stance against auction houses.

Victus

I like the system as is, but what aggravates me is when I go to a guild trader in a good location and they have next to nothing when I search for the stuff I want. I'm starting to get to the point as well where if I find a random one in an out of the way location, I too will peruse and see what they have.

C0pp3rhead

Exactly what @jluceyub17_ESO said. Games with central auction houses have massive problems with inflation, to the point where new players have trouble acquiring even the basics. Items that now cost 1 gold and a few coppers now cost 10 gold and a few silvers. Moreover, a central auction house allows for certain incredibly rich players and guilds to corner certain markets and engage in price fixing.

Sure, the guild trader system is less than convenient, but it introduces competition into the equation. If your endgame pve guild is selling V14 martial knowledge gear for 40k, they won't sell as much as the guild selling them for 30k (just an example, not the case for all pieces). No, it's not convenient, but it's better for the long-term health of the economy; for that reason it's here to stay.

AlnilamE

Zet-7 wrote: »

Guild kiosk is one of the few major gold sinks in this game.
And guild kiosks located in the middle of nowhere only gets a /shrug from me, I do not see the point.

You can find some very good deals in the remote kiosks, and the majority are located steps from a wayshrine, so they are easy to visit.

pugyourself

Leave the current system alone. It is working as intended.

Flaminir

Thymos wrote: »

Several threads on this very topic already.

Feels like several hundred... maybe Zos will be along soon with one of their 'We're locking this thread please go post on this far bigger thread on the subject...' condensing posts!

MercyKilling

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Moreover, a central auction house allows for certain incredibly rich players and guilds to corner certain markets and engage in price fixing.



There is nothing preventing that from happening now. Matter of fact, I guarantee it is happening now. Everything you dislike about an auction house is already happening with guild kiosks, except for player accessibility. You currently HAVE to be a member of a guild to sell anything without hawking your wares in zone chat. (Which is not a viable option, no matter what you think or say.)

Zet-7

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

a central auction house allows for certain incredibly rich players and guilds to corner certain markets and engage in price fixing.

But is not this problem already happening in ESO by guilds banding together in order to lock out anyone else from certain placed?

At least the average joe stands on an equal footing with the pros with a global AH when it comes to displaying his/her items.

And the accumulation of wealth has to do with a lack of gold sinks and not directly connected to a global AH.

C0pp3rhead

Without any proof, it sounds like you're grasping for straws, @MercyKilling & @Zet-7. Any efforts to block out other players would be incredibly costly and ultimately unsustainable, considering that the most prized guild traders already cost millions, and the price is only going up.

This talk of the Average Joes vs. The Pros is silly. To think that an AH allows for all players to stand on equal footing shows a lack of understanding when it comes to markets and trading. Moreover, there is no way that a trade guild of 300 players filled with inactives could stand toe-to-toe with 500 active players. To say that this should be possible is just silly. Trust me, if you can sustain 500 active players, you can do alot.

Another problem I see all the time is player refusal to join trade guilds. Most have no membership or sales requirements whatsoever. Every day zone chat is filled with trade guilds begging for new members. Most are not social guilds, so the chat is unobtrusive. If nothing else, they provide a baseline for easy comparison to prices elsewhere. Why do so many players hate them?

pugyourself

Zet-7 wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

a central auction house allows for certain incredibly rich players and guilds to corner certain markets and engage in price fixing.

But is not this problem already happening in ESO by guilds banding together in order to lock out anyone else from certain placed?

At least the average joe stands on an equal footing with the pros with a global AH when it comes to displaying his/her items.

And the accumulation of wealth has to do with a lack of gold sinks and not directly connected to a global AH.

Evidence of collusion? I don't see that anywhere.

Thelon

Zet-7 wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

a central auction house allows for certain incredibly rich players and guilds to corner certain markets and engage in price fixing.

But is not this problem already happening in ESO by guilds banding together in order to lock out anyone else from certain placed?

At least the average joe stands on an equal footing with the pros with a global AH when it comes to displaying his/her items.

And the accumulation of wealth has to do with a lack of gold sinks and not directly connected to a global AH.

My trade guild is having a clearance sale on tinfoil hats all weekend. You can find our kiosk in Ghratwood.

Wing

I would like to point out if it was not clear that I AM FOR the current kiosk system.

the lack of no central AH has done wonders to keep inflation down, prices have not changed in months (that's good) and it does work as a gold sink.

im just curious if we can remove some of the far flung kiosk locations and add more to the major trade hubs to prevent drama between large trade guilds (only so much room, someone is going to be un happy)

as for price fixing, there is not much of that going on per se, but I could provide links from trade guild sites that do stress no undercutting and that like, they don't price fix really but they do try to encourage the status quo.

DivZero

someone mentioned a system with the east empire trading company in another thread.it was a good idea imho. Add a fee like 50% of item price.You can choose if you want to sell / buy your items in guild kiosks with nearly no loss, or sell your items worldwide with heavy fees.

s7732425ub17_ESO

I am actually very happy with the guild kiosk system.

jluceyub17_ESO

DivZero wrote: »

someone mentioned a system with the east empire trading company in another thread.it was a good idea imho. Add a fee like 50% of item price.You can choose if you want to sell / buy your items in guild kiosks with nearly no loss, or sell your items worldwide with heavy fees.

Even with the heavy fee I don't see a way for that to co-exist with the current system without having a major impact on the prices and volume of trade conducted through guild stores, to the point that the AH eventual strangles the guild trader system

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Is there any evidence at all that a central AH causes inflation?

No, there is not.

In fact as a central AH would not have to be bid on by a player or guild to use, it is most probable that a central AH would deflate prices.

And that is why those established trade guilds don't want any changes.

They want their nice little monopoly that prevents a significant portion of the playerbase from ever being able to sell anything.

All The Best

Audigy

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Without any proof, it sounds like you're grasping for straws, @MercyKilling & @Zet-7. Any efforts to block out other players would be incredibly costly and ultimately unsustainable, considering that the most prized guild traders already cost millions, and the price is only going up.

This talk of the Average Joes vs. The Pros is silly. To think that an AH allows for all players to stand on equal footing shows a lack of understanding when it comes to markets and trading. Moreover, there is no way that a trade guild of 300 players filled with inactives could stand toe-to-toe with 500 active players. To say that this should be possible is just silly. Trust me, if you can sustain 500 active players, you can do alot.

Another problem I see all the time is player refusal to join trade guilds. Most have no membership or sales requirements whatsoever. Every day zone chat is filled with trade guilds begging for new members. Most are not social guilds, so the chat is unobtrusive. If nothing else, they provide a baseline for easy comparison to prices elsewhere. Why do so many players hate them?

In my 15 years of MMO experience, I was allowed to trade in each MMO that I played. Its ESO that doesn't let me, since I refuse to join those so called "trade guilds". An AH is an open market, where the demand defines the price and not the access to a shop. Lets face it, if you guys would lose your monopoly, you would also lose the ability to rip off others since the market would be more transparent. Say what you want, but at WOW everyone is allowed to trade and make a few bucks like that. As a Casual I was always able to get a few good deals and sell my goods in the process. At ESO however I dump all my goods to the vendors and don't even pick up most of the things I find.

I don't need an AH in this game, but still any AH is better than the horrible situation that we have now. A few control everything, this is just so yesterday and wrong. It kind of reminds me of a dictatorship, either you are with me then you can trade or you are cut off from the market.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

This talk of the Average Joes vs. The Pros is silly. To think that an AH allows for all players to stand on equal footing shows a lack of understanding when it comes to markets and trading.

We don't want everyone on an "equal footing".

We want everyone to have equal opportunity to attain whatever footing they can.

An AH does exactly that.

All The Best

pugyourself

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

This talk of the Average Joes vs. The Pros is silly. To think that an AH allows for all players to stand on equal footing shows a lack of understanding when it comes to markets and trading.

We don't want everyone on an "equal footing".

We want everyone to have equal opportunity to attain whatever footing they can.

An AH does exactly that.

All The Best

So do guilds. More so than AH.

Rivan12

Wing wrote: »

I would like to point out if it was not clear that I AM FOR the current kiosk system.

Thanks for pointing that out AGAIN for people, I was amazed reading through the post the lack of reading comprehension skills people have. Its like they saw the title and assumed what you meant, going straight for....OMG another ESO needs AH post...

I thought your request was very reasonable, not only do we need more prime kiosk real estate, but with the influx of players after B2P its more than needed its a necessity/requirement to put in more traders.

Thanks for bringing up this request for improvement to current system. More is almost always better.

MercyKilling

Well, obviously the developers ARE happy with the way things are, as they keep ignoring or smacking down any ideas we players have to improve upon the existing system.

Flaminir

Audigy wrote: »

I refuse to join those so called "trade guilds"..

Then don't complain that you can't sell!

The mechanics are there... if you refuse to use them then that's 100% down to you... not ZoS... not the trade guilds... not other players.

ZoS has repeatedly & comprehensively batted down any chance of an auction house... the most recent time on ESO live a couple of hours ago.

Guild traders are here to stay.... so everybody has two options... sit here & QQ on the forums & stay relatively poor in game... or join a trade guild & sell quite happily like the majority of others out there.

As has been pointed out by others in this thread, most trade guilds have no membership requirements, no taxes, they are just helpful & convenient. Most of the guildmasters go to great lengths & personal cost to make the guilds work for the benefit of their members.

Use them!

If you're on the EU server then drop me a message & I can even invite you to one or two really good ones if that would help

I'm not trying to be confrontational here... but there is SO much misinformation out there on the trader system.... It's not perfect, but there are WAY more than just a couple of decent traders out there... sure, if you want RawlKa be ready to fork out millions... but RawlKa is massively over priced & poor value! Even a starter guild can pick up an ok trader for relative peanuts each week, not the millions some people on here would have you believe!

Greiger

First off, before I say these things I'll admit the possibility of maybe not being in the best trade guilds.

Now I really think there do need to be far more guild store kiosks. Being in a trade guild isn't enough, I use trade guilds, I'm in 3 right now, all constantly capped at or very close to 500 members. NONE of them have a kiosk, and not for lack of trying. And this isn't counting two other trade guilds I was a member of in the past that also never had a kiosk.

Guild kiosks are too uncommon, the most realistic way I see to get a guild kiosk is to charge very high membership fees. which to the average user would kill the point. I'm not trying to get rich in gold, I'm just trying to sell off garbage for a similar amount to what I would have to pay to buy similar garbage.

With the current number of kiosks a trading guild that wants to succeed won't want someone like me. They want all 500 slots full of high rollers that can pull in massive tax coins. So they can barely break even on how much the pathetic number of guild kiosks cost.

I don't want a global auction house (well I do, but I see the reasoning on why it's not there and won't argue) but if there going to use this kiosk system we need more than 6 or 7 spots per zone. I'd be happy if they even just put more out in the sticks, there just needs to be more so that lack of supply isn't driving the prices for the things into the millions.
EDIT: Heck more in the sticks would probably be better than more in the city now that I think about it, allowing spots in the city to still be premium absurd prices, but ones out in the wilds to be a touch more reasonable.

pugyourself

Greiger wrote: »

First off, before I say these things I'll admit the possibility of maybe not being in the best trade guilds.

Now I really think there do need to be far more guild store kiosks. Being in a trade guild isn't enough, I use trade guilds, I'm in 3 right now, all constantly capped at or very close to 500 members. NONE of them have a kiosk, and not for lack of trying. And this isn't counting two other trade guilds I was a member of in the past that also never had a kiosk.

Guild kiosks are too uncommon, the most realistic way I see to get a guild kiosk is to charge very high membership fees. which to the average user would kill the point. I'm not trying to get rich in gold, I'm just trying to sell off garbage for a similar amount to what I would have to pay to buy similar garbage.

With the current number of kiosks a trading guild that wants to succeed won't want someone like me. They want all 500 slots full of high rollers that can pull in massive tax coins. So they can barely break even on how much the pathetic number of guild kiosks cost.

I don't want a global auction house (well I do, but I see the reasoning on why it's not there and won't argue) but if there going to use this kiosk system we need more than 6 or 7 spots per zone. I'd be happy if they even just put more out in the sticks, there just needs to be more so that lack of supply isn't driving the prices for the things into the millions.

News flash: no one wants to buy garbage anywhere in the game. Sell your trash to NPCs. Focus on providing something of value in the guild store.

Greiger

When I say garbage I'm meaning stuff like weapons you can't use, crafting materiel you are past or not able to use yet, that stuff. Not actual garbage.