Keeps

JTorus

I've been thinking on this one for a while as not only to as a viable change to help mitigate lag, but increase the competitiveness (and fun) of PvP. Currently, the mechanics behind capturing a keep are a bit simplistic. Perhaps some more involvement on the player's side of things may help alleviate some of the lag issues while offering a bit of 'new content' to PvP. We've all experienced lag at it's point of origin. It pretty much involves finger crossing, an insane amount of stack-and-whack tactics, leaving the servers sort out the rest. In my opinion, this requires little to no skill, and anyone claiming otherwise is pure posturing. I'm not suggesting that taking or defending a keep is easy, but I think it is too simple. Territory waxes and wanes too rapidly, keeps are less of an obstacle, and more of task. ZOS heralded Cyrodiil as a battleground, but the speed in which control shifts is closer to a game of Texas Hold 'Em, rather than true battles for territory.


This is lengthy, I'm sorry.

To begin, everything you need to do to siege a wall, and get to a flag would remain the same up to a point. Your enemy's flags will burn away to nothing. Only then at that moment does the keep become contested. In order to finally claim it the following must happen.

• NPCs
  - NPC's will no longer respawn in a contested keep.
  - Offense must kill every last NPC. Yes, all of them, the patrolling guards, mages, healers, archers, etc. They will continue to defend until dead and the keep will remain in a contested state until all NPC's are slain.
  - Living NPC's will remain in whatever upgraded state the local resource allows, and will continue to increase in strength if that resource is not captured.
  
• Walls
  - Must be repaired to satisfy conditions that will 'unflag' a keep. (Basically, as they are now)
  - Repairs can be interrupted with a siege hit. Yes this means preventing a swift keep take, yes this means one player can 'troll' a group attempting to take a keep. Go out there, find them, kill them. You're taking a keep, it's still vulnerable, you need to scramble and you need to behave as the interim guards.
  - Any faction can continue to siege new wall locations, the regular conditions (49%) still apply in order to flag a keep (or maintain a flagged status).
  
• Scrolls
  - Once a keep is in a contested state, any scrolls inside are up for grabs, by all three factions. Yes this means defense can grab their own scroll at the last minute and run like hell.
  - All other scroll rules apply. (Must be picked up and replaced to claim the scroll, etc)
  - Scrolls can not be placed in a contested keep.
  - Picking up your own scroll and placing it down again (in the same or another keep) does not make you eligible for a scroll quest turn-in. The scroll was never lost, at best it became compromised, or used as a diversionary tactic, a gamble, but nothing more.
  
• Doors
  - Doors will be usable by all factions when a keep is in a contested state. Yes this means people can sneak in, players will be responsible for securing all points of entry/exit
  - The front doors can still be destroyed by siege.
  
• Flags
  - A keep does not enter a contested state until both flags are burned. If only one flag is burned, it will remain empty until the keep is re-secured. A defense tick will not process until this takes place. Walls must repaired, and the keep 'unflagged' before a faction can claim a flag. Meanwhile, travel lanes will remain broken.
  - Once a keep is in a contested state (both flags are burned) there is no potential for a defense tick. The keep has been lost and must be reclaimed, even if is your former keep.
  - Your faction's flag can be raised on the pole only after all the other requirements are met (NPC's, Walls, etc), however it is still a free for all until that happens.
    For example, AD assaults and puts a DC keep in a contested state. AD slays NPC's, and begins wrapping up repairs when EP sneaks in, and camps both flags. Unless AD kills EP, re-assaults a wall (below 49%) the keep will flip to red, they will be inside an enemy keep.
  
• Unclaimed keeps
  - If there is zero activity for a set length of time, repairs, will resume their automatic processes. I think it would be interesting to see NPC's go 'rogue' or even for the Imperials move back in. While they might not be capable of a siege defense, they may spawn (and re-spawn perhaps?) in vast numbers. I'm thinking numbers relative to a Dungeon or Trials trash mob pull. Maybe even a boss type inside the inner portion of the keep? Additionally, you would receive armor damage from fighting these NPC's. At this point doors will become impassable by all factions.
  - Unclaimed keeps break travel lanes. I would even go so far as to propose that unclaimed keeps on either side of a milegate or bridge would effectively close transit (or become heavily restricted with Imperial NPC's) until these keeps are re-claimed by a faction.
  - Scrolls left in an unclaimed keep for a specified amount of time become unclaimed as well, or perhaps follow the whole Imperial idea. More scrolls under imperial possession, the stronger all of Cyrodiil's Imperial NPC grow. (Even to a very real exponentially threatening level.)
  
• Other ideas
  - Stone repair kits are expensive, I would like to see them behave, both in price and effectiveness comparable to wood repair kits. I understand farming AP is a real potential issue in some instances outlined above. However, if stone repair kits were more inexpensive, a little more effective, and returned a minimal amount of AP it could inefficient for point exploitation.
  - Anyone rezing a friendly player while a keep is in contested mode will receive a grand soul gem if their faction is victorious. They will have to remain in range to receive it. 1 rez = 1 gem. 10 rezzes = 1 gem. This isn't meant to be a minimal reward to players already performing rezzes, but an incentive to those who do not always rez, at least if they rez one ally, they have little to lose.
  - Forward camps can not be placed inside a contested keep, or on its grounds. Furthermore, camps placed near any enemy NPC are subject to attack.
  

Obviously these conditions make taking a keep significantly more complex. It opens potential for upsets, and comebacks as well as requiring a faction not only to successfully assault a keep, but hold onto it while it's in a vulnerable state (IE, repairs). I'm strongly against the notion that the battle should end because some flag poles flipped colors and NPC's can take on 'mop up duty'. I think demonstrated superiority in a battle is beyond sheer numbers but includes tactics and coordination. I like the idea that a small few might not be able to take a (contested) keep, but can manage preventing larger numbers from securing it themselves.

I realize this would reduce a faction's influence from spreading on the map, but then, that's usually how wars go. For those of you that played EVE, null sec was always a slow transition. Additionally, this might address night capping problems (or at least impair it some).

As for farms/mines/mills and outposts, not sure, but some of these ideas might be applicable within reason.

frozywozy

I'm very interested in most of your ideas. Just one controversial aspect that you may have forgotten. I don't think any of these solutions would help the entertainment of Cyrodiil until they fix the population balances. When you are out numbered 5 to 1 and the only thing you can do 16hours a day is to try to flip a ressource or an outpost, I don't think having to kill all the npcs would help the out numbered faction.

JTorus

frozywozy wrote: »

I'm very interested in most of your ideas. Just one controversial aspect that you may have forgotten. I don't think any of these solutions would help the entertainment of Cyrodiil until they fix the population balances. When you are out numbered 5 to 1 and the only thing you can do 16hours a day is to try to flip a ressource or an outpost, I don't think having to kill all the npcs would help the out numbered faction.

No, I'm really at a loss on how to address that, some ideas come to mind, (flexible and variable population locks?) but they're not really viable, and would only place more limitations and frustrations on players. Not something any of us want or need at this point.

C0pp3rhead

I agree with alot of what you say here. However defense should never be able to take/relocate their own scrolls. There are too many spies/alts that will wait for a keep to flag then run it to the nearest enemy keep.