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Take the meteor pledge

  • Bouvin
    Bouvin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I say we do the opposite.

    Everyone slot and spam meteor.

    Let's see how many times we can crash the server before ZoS actually starts giving a crap.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    Class Representative
    No. I'm sorry, but the meteor / Valkyn Skoria set have just become the newest favorite hypotheses to explain the lag ever since the AOE cap theory lost it's appeal with 1.6. Ask anyone who has played in Wabbajack, long before the Valkyn Skoria set ever saw the light of day and nobody used the pre 1.6 meteor ultimate because it was bad, and they will tell you of lag. And unlike your grandfather's stories about heading to school and having to go up hills both to and from, the pre-meteor lag is actually true.

    I both agree and disagree.

    Yes - Lag has been around to greater or lesser degrees since quite early in the game and it was there before meteor became so popular. However ZOS have removed or reduced some of those causes either with code changes or with changes to make some skills less useful and thus less spammable.

    But - If you've been playing recently you can't help but notice that the sound of falling meteors always triggers a rise in latency/lag/ping times whatever you want to call it. I don't claim to be a coder but I speculate it is because it causes a heavy load in multiple ways - it is AOE so multiple damage targets to proc, it adds ulti per target hit so again multiple procs to compute, it causes targets to bounce up and fall back so both extra visual effects to proc plus fall damage to check for and proc, it has a fairly hefty basic visual anyway and so of all the AOEs it had possible the most intensive number of things to process when cast on a large group.

    So I don't think it is the sole cause of lag but you'd have to be living in a serious state of delusion to not connect the vastly increased incidence of meteors at least loosely with the increase of lag experienced at the same time.

    Hmm...

    What exactly has ZoS changed or removed as far as causes of lag? You mean the deer and torchbugs? Or do you mean the note that comes in every other patch note about "fixing X that was causing lag in Cyrodiil." None of these has had any appreciable effect. If an Emperor keep is contested, it's a good bet there will be lag. The only tangible thing ZoS has done was reduce the population caps, but this also has not prevented the lag; merely lowered the amount of instances we suffer from it.

    You say "the sound of falling meteors always triggers a rise in latency/lag/ping times." No it doesn't. In fact, most of the time, I'd say 9 times out of 10, when I use meteor or it is used against me, the game runs fine and combat continues rather smoothly. And it does not have an inordinate amount of calculations to strain the server. A DK standard lasts longer, has a synergy that meteor does not that the server has to calculate for everyone eligible, does a healing debuff for all enemies inside that a meteor does not, increases the damage by a DK that a meteor does not, and has a boatload of calculations to perform if someone activates a synergy: damage to all enemies, undaunted passives and champion passives for the user, turning "off" the synergy eligibility for others, etc.

    It is when the server is already a lagfest do people notice bright flashes and distinctive sounds of constant meteors not triggering. But no ability or ultimate is being registered by the server even though we see the animation/hear the noise associated with them. I mean:

    standards_zpsvwztpgrj.jpg

    How have DK standards escaped scrutiny? It is possible that the meteors that people are complaining about are symptoms of the lagfest that is already there?

    To be clear, I *wish* I was wrong and meteors were really tanking the server. I really do. But until I see consistent evidence of contested Emperor Keep with 3 factions fighting with no lag and no meteors and the same sort of fight with lag and with meteors, then I am going to keep using that ultimate and keep using the Valkyn Skoria set because a 937 ping is just as miserable as a 951.

    My experience tends to back up that lag existed pre-1.6 but has got much worse post-1.6. The main change, or one of them, seems to be a much increased incidence of Meteors... which is not to rule out the impact of old effects like Standards or new ones like Vigor.

    Perhaps I am unfairly cynical but some of these responses read like self-justification for people who are going to keep on doing something regardless of negative impact because they would rather be one of those taking advantage even if it means remaining part of the problem.

    And my experience, just as anecdotal and worthless as yours, tends to back up that the lag that existed post 1.6 is just as miserable as the lag pre 1.5. Actually, that is not strictly true. I have had more misery with lag pre 1.5. This is not to deny that meteors, like all AoE abilities, do not contribute to that lag. Rather to question the latest flavor of the month panacea that somehow taking a pledge not to use meteor and instead dropping a DK standard or batswarm, which we know have already contributed to tanking ZoS's servers, will somehow meaningfully contribute to the problem ZoS has not been able to get a handle on for over a year.

    Perhaps I am unfairly cynical but some of these responses read like uncritical speculations from people who are so desperate for a solution that they feel justified for telling me how I should play or blame me for having a "negative impact" and unnecessarily contributing to their miserable PvP experience. So I am sorry to say in your belief I will continue to be "part of the problem."
    Edited by Joy_Division on April 21, 2015 5:57PM
  • Panda244
    Panda244
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Panda244 wrote: »
    "I do solemnly swear,
    that I will faithfully execute the Office of Meteor Depute of Cyrodiil,
    and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and spam Meteor,
    in defense of the great state of Cyrodiil."

    Well... duh! You're AD, how else you gonna win? :p

    lol, I use it on my DK because it's vastly superior to Standard in every way now, I don't use it on my NB, even though I could, and the base damage unbuffed is 11k with Ice Comet, having 36k max magicka is OP. Don't even need spell damage :wink:
    Aldmeri Dominion For Life!
    Crassus Licinius II - DK - V14 - Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade NA (The Dragonknight that refuses to go Vampire.)
    N'tel Arlena - NB - V14 - Retired Sap Tank of Haderus NA, Harasser of Many (Also, not a vampire. Goes by nickname Nutella.)

    #FreeZazeer
    #FreeGooey
    #FreeAsgari
    #FreeAoE
    #FreeSubtomik
    #FreeMBF

    Officially Resigned From Cyrodiil As Of 4/15/15 10:24 PM EST.
  • Tavore1138
    Tavore1138
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    No. I'm sorry, but the meteor / Valkyn Skoria set have just become the newest favorite hypotheses to explain the lag ever since the AOE cap theory lost it's appeal with 1.6. Ask anyone who has played in Wabbajack, long before the Valkyn Skoria set ever saw the light of day and nobody used the pre 1.6 meteor ultimate because it was bad, and they will tell you of lag. And unlike your grandfather's stories about heading to school and having to go up hills both to and from, the pre-meteor lag is actually true.

    I both agree and disagree.

    Yes - Lag has been around to greater or lesser degrees since quite early in the game and it was there before meteor became so popular. However ZOS have removed or reduced some of those causes either with code changes or with changes to make some skills less useful and thus less spammable.

    But - If you've been playing recently you can't help but notice that the sound of falling meteors always triggers a rise in latency/lag/ping times whatever you want to call it. I don't claim to be a coder but I speculate it is because it causes a heavy load in multiple ways - it is AOE so multiple damage targets to proc, it adds ulti per target hit so again multiple procs to compute, it causes targets to bounce up and fall back so both extra visual effects to proc plus fall damage to check for and proc, it has a fairly hefty basic visual anyway and so of all the AOEs it had possible the most intensive number of things to process when cast on a large group.

    So I don't think it is the sole cause of lag but you'd have to be living in a serious state of delusion to not connect the vastly increased incidence of meteors at least loosely with the increase of lag experienced at the same time.

    Hmm...

    What exactly has ZoS changed or removed as far as causes of lag? You mean the deer and torchbugs? Or do you mean the note that comes in every other patch note about "fixing X that was causing lag in Cyrodiil." None of these has had any appreciable effect. If an Emperor keep is contested, it's a good bet there will be lag. The only tangible thing ZoS has done was reduce the population caps, but this also has not prevented the lag; merely lowered the amount of instances we suffer from it.

    You say "the sound of falling meteors always triggers a rise in latency/lag/ping times." No it doesn't. In fact, most of the time, I'd say 9 times out of 10, when I use meteor or it is used against me, the game runs fine and combat continues rather smoothly. And it does not have an inordinate amount of calculations to strain the server. A DK standard lasts longer, has a synergy that meteor does not that the server has to calculate for everyone eligible, does a healing debuff for all enemies inside that a meteor does not, increases the damage by a DK that a meteor does not, and has a boatload of calculations to perform if someone activates a synergy: damage to all enemies, undaunted passives and champion passives for the user, turning "off" the synergy eligibility for others, etc.

    It is when the server is already a lagfest do people notice bright flashes and distinctive sounds of constant meteors not triggering. But no ability or ultimate is being registered by the server even though we see the animation/hear the noise associated with them. I mean:

    standards_zpsvwztpgrj.jpg

    How have DK standards escaped scrutiny? It is possible that the meteors that people are complaining about are symptoms of the lagfest that is already there?

    To be clear, I *wish* I was wrong and meteors were really tanking the server. I really do. But until I see consistent evidence of contested Emperor Keep with 3 factions fighting with no lag and no meteors and the same sort of fight with lag and with meteors, then I am going to keep using that ultimate and keep using the Valkyn Skoria set because a 937 ping is just as miserable as a 951.

    My experience tends to back up that lag existed pre-1.6 but has got much worse post-1.6. The main change, or one of them, seems to be a much increased incidence of Meteors... which is not to rule out the impact of old effects like Standards or new ones like Vigor.

    Perhaps I am unfairly cynical but some of these responses read like self-justification for people who are going to keep on doing something regardless of negative impact because they would rather be one of those taking advantage even if it means remaining part of the problem.

    And my experience, just as anecdotal and worthless as yours, tends to back up that the lag that existed post 1.6 is just as miserable as the lag pre 1.5. Actually, that is not strictly true. I have had more misery with lag pre 1.5. This is not to deny that meteors, like all AoE abilities, do not contribute to that lag. Rather to question the latest flavor of the month panacea that somehow taking a pledge not to use meteor and instead dropping a DK standard or batswarm, which we know have already contributed to tanking ZoS's servers, will somehow meaningfully contribute to the problem ZoS has not been able to get a handle on for over a year.

    Perhaps I am unfairly cynical but some of these responses read like uncritical speculations from people who are so desperate for a solution that they feel justified for telling me how I should play or blame me for having a "negative impact" and unnecessarily contributing to their miserable PvP experience. So I am sorry to say in your belief I will continue to be "part of the problem."

    You are just flat out wrong to suggest lag was worse in 1.5, nothing anecdotal about it - even suggesting it pretty much invalidates anything else you have said as nothing but excuses.

    But boy it was a witty post that any politician would be proud of!
    GM - Malazan
    Raid Leader - Legio Mortuum
    Veteran- The Daggerfall Authority
  • Winnamine
    Winnamine
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like this idea. I'm going with yes.

    And yeah, meteor is worse than standard and other ultis for causing lag, I think it might have to do with the knockback mechanic. Remember the FPS bug, whenever you got thrown by a rune or a javelin? yeah, like that.
    Winnamine
    Airling
    ~
    Decibel
  • Bouvin
    Bouvin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Winnamine wrote: »
    I like this idea. I'm going with yes.

    And yeah, meteor is worse than standard and other ultis for causing lag, I think it might have to do with the knockback mechanic. Remember the FPS bug, whenever you got thrown by a rune or a javelin? yeah, like that.

    Probably right. I think it's causing the server to make too many calculations when it gets spammed.

    It's not just calculating damage.. but trying to calculate all the physics for knock back as well.
  • Ezykil
    Ezykil
    ✭✭
    ermagerd
  • Naphariel
    Naphariel
    ✭✭✭
    Bouvin wrote: »
    I say we do the opposite.

    Everyone slot and spam meteor.

    Let's see how many times we can crash the server before ZoS actually starts giving a crap.

    I support this endeavour.

    This "meteor pledge" only takes away ZOS' incentive to actually fix the problem, which is exactly the opposite of what we should be doing.
    Edited by Naphariel on May 20, 2015 9:02AM
  • olsborg
    olsborg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Much of the lagg I think is caused by the reflected meterors, the animation looks wonky and struggled.
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
    Imperial Templar, stamina
    Redguard Warden, stamina

    Aldmeri Dominion!
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