Nightblade - Shadow - Passive: Shadow Barrier tooltip makes NO sense.

WraithAzraiel

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increased for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

Shunravi

Lol

WraithAzraiel

Checked my Sorc - no BONUS to class passives that require a certain armor type.

Checked my DK - no BONUS to class passives that require a certain armor type.

Checked my Templar - no BONUS to class passives that require a certain armor type.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

I agree it should not have an armor type associated with it. My NB tank however, loves it

Xsorus

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increases for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

It's more powerful in 1.6, it used to only give the bonus when ya left stealth, it now gives the bonus when you use any ability in that line, heavy armor is not required either... All heavy armor does is increase the duration of the buff.. So it's better then it was

Kahrgan

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increases for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

It's for nb tanks... This passive is amazing. Find the next thing to cry about please.

WraithAzraiel

Kahrgan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increases for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

It's for nb tanks... This passive is amazing. Find the next thing to cry about please.

It's for NB tanks. That's nice, peanut. What I'm saying is removing the Heavy Armor requirement for the bonus time wouldn't damage it at all and wouldn't pigeonhole the passive.

Next time you want to accuse someone with a reasonable complaint, of crying, think better of it.

I'm not saying it isn't useful. I'm saying it's unreasonable to bind it to *1* armor type.

Hell it'd probably be better if it it read something along the lines of " This duration is increased by X seconds when wearing 5 pieces of light, medium or heavy armor."

That way, it'd be open and beneficial to everyone, not just NB tanks.

That sound fair to you?

lolo_01b16_ESO

So what do you want to change? If all armour types have the duration heavy has at the moment, it will be very strong for magicka nb, if you decrease the duration for heavy armour to where light armour is at the moment, it won't be usefull for tanks, as you won't have enough magicka to keep it up.

WraithAzraiel

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

So what do you want to change? If all armour types have the duration heavy has at the moment, it will be very strong for magicka nb, if you decrease the duration for heavy armour to where light armour is at the moment, it won't be usefull for tanks, as you won't have enough magicka to keep it up.

"This duration is increased by X seconds when wearing 5 pieces of either light, medium or heavy armor."

IE:

You're wearing 5 pieces light armor 2 pieces heavy/medium? EXCELLENT, you get the duration increase!

You're wearing 5 pieces medium armor 2 piece heavy/medium? EXCELLENT, you get the duration increase!

You're wearing 5 pieces heavy armor and 2 pieces light/medium? EXCELLENT, you get the duration increase!

You're wearing 3 pieces of light and 4 pieces heavy/medium? NOPE

You're wearing 3 pieces medium and 4 pieces heavy/light? NOPE

You're wearing 3 pieces heavy and 4 pieces light/medium? NOPE

See how that can be beneficial to everyone now? With the exception of really really niche strange combinations of armor types required in certain weird builds. I'm sure they exist but I don't know any examples.

WraithAzraiel

OH WAIT

I forgot 5/1/1. If you wear 5 pieces of 1 type, and 1 piece each of the remaining types YOU STILL GET THE DURATION INCREASE!!!!

AND ADDED BONUS! You also get the bonus from the Undaunted Mettle Passive.

WraithAzraiel

Opening the passive up to encompass other armor types will not have any negative effect on NB tanks.

In fact, it'll have a beneficial effect along the lines of survivability regardless of your preferred armor type.

Shunravi

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Kahrgan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increases for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

It's for nb tanks... This passive is amazing. Find the next thing to cry about please.

It's for NB tanks. That's nice, peanut. What I'm saying is removing the Heavy Armor requirement for the bonus time wouldn't damage it at all and wouldn't pigeonhole the passive.

Next time you want to accuse someone with a reasonable complaint, of crying, think better of it.

I'm not saying it isn't useful. I'm saying it's unreasonable to bind it to *1* armor type.

Hell it'd probably be better if it it read something along the lines of " This duration is increased by X seconds when wearing 5 pieces of light, medium or heavy armor."

That way, it'd be open and beneficial to everyone, not just NB tanks.

That sound fair to you?

how is it pidgeon holed when I can more effectively spam a shadow ability with light or medium and simply refresh it?

WraithAzraiel

Shunravi wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Kahrgan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increases for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

It's for nb tanks... This passive is amazing. Find the next thing to cry about please.

It's for NB tanks. That's nice, peanut. What I'm saying is removing the Heavy Armor requirement for the bonus time wouldn't damage it at all and wouldn't pigeonhole the passive.

Next time you want to accuse someone with a reasonable complaint, of crying, think better of it.

I'm not saying it isn't useful. I'm saying it's unreasonable to bind it to *1* armor type.

Hell it'd probably be better if it it read something along the lines of " This duration is increased by X seconds when wearing 5 pieces of light, medium or heavy armor."

That way, it'd be open and beneficial to everyone, not just NB tanks.

That sound fair to you?

how is it pidgeon holed when I can more effectively spam a shadow ability with light or medium and simply refresh it?

Resource management. You wouldn't have to spam the abilities as often as you do with anything other than heavy armor if the duration increase applied to all armor types.

Kahrgan

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Kahrgan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increases for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

It's for nb tanks... This passive is amazing. Find the next thing to cry about please.

It's for NB tanks. That's nice, peanut. What I'm saying is removing the Heavy Armor requirement for the bonus time wouldn't damage it at all and wouldn't pigeonhole the passive.

Next time you want to accuse someone with a reasonable complaint, of crying, think better of it.

I'm not saying it isn't useful. I'm saying it's unreasonable to bind it to *1* armor type.

Hell it'd probably be better if it it read something along the lines of " This duration is increased by X seconds when wearing 5 pieces of light, medium or heavy armor."

That way, it'd be open and beneficial to everyone, not just NB tanks.

That sound fair to you?

Your 'complaint' is not a reasonable complaint. As it stands its a FREE armor buff and spell resist buff for just using a shadow ability, something we already do reasonably often and the duration increased for someone wearing heavy armor. For tanking... Nbs have no direct armor/spell resist buff baseline, such as Spike Armor, Lightning Form and similarly Rune focus. We achieve our Major Resolve and Major Ward from the passive.

The passive is completely awesome as it is. You just want an OP passive with no balance, and your suggestions are the ones that Devs should not listen to.

WraithAzraiel

Kahrgan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Kahrgan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Activating a Shadow ability increases Armor by 5120 for 4 seconds. (at max skill level and V14) This duration is increases for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.


WHAT?!

I was wondering why leaving stealth didn't give me a boost in Physical Resistance anymore, as it did prior to 1.6

Who's bright idea was this?

Are there any other CLASS passives that require certain armor types?

It's for nb tanks... This passive is amazing. Find the next thing to cry about please.

It's for NB tanks. That's nice, peanut. What I'm saying is removing the Heavy Armor requirement for the bonus time wouldn't damage it at all and wouldn't pigeonhole the passive.

Next time you want to accuse someone with a reasonable complaint, of crying, think better of it.

I'm not saying it isn't useful. I'm saying it's unreasonable to bind it to *1* armor type.

Hell it'd probably be better if it it read something along the lines of " This duration is increased by X seconds when wearing 5 pieces of light, medium or heavy armor."

That way, it'd be open and beneficial to everyone, not just NB tanks.

That sound fair to you?

Your 'complaint' is not a reasonable complaint. As it stands its a FREE armor buff and spell resist buff for just using a shadow ability, something we already do reasonably often and the duration increased for someone wearing heavy armor. For tanking... Nbs have no direct armor/spell resist buff baseline, such as Spike Armor, Lightning Form and similarly Rune focus. We achieve our Major Resolve and Major Ward from the passive.

The passive is completely awesome as it is. You just want an OP passive with no balance, and your suggestions are the ones that Devs should not listen to.

My suggestion opens the duration bonus to everyone rather than a select few. How is that OP? That's balance.

WraithAzraiel

Furthermore, what the hell is so OP about a couple extra seconds of a buff that's already given?

Why is it SO ABSOLUTELY necessary for it to ONLY be viable with NB tanks?

cavakthestampede

This would provide too great a defensive bonus to medium and light armor wearers who have arguably better resource management tools are their disposal.

However, in PvE tanking the bonus is a necessary one for Nightblade tanks to be as effective at tanking. If this bonus were available in its full (read: Heavy Armor boosted) duration to the other two armor types it would definitely skew the survival ability of DPS Nightblades in PvE and PvP.

You may not agree with it, and based on your post you don't. However, you are wrong. Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

Undefwun

Didn't realise they had even changed it.
Wasn't this the passive that used to activate when you came out of stealth/invis?

This used to be a passive you specced into BECAUSE we mostly didn't wear heavy armor and gave you a bit extra protection when you popped out of nowhere.

Glad I just happen to have 2 pieces of HA on..

cavakthestampede

Undefwun wrote: »

Glad I just happen to have 2 pieces of HA on..

I can't help but wonder if some folks don't understand the passive, and that this post originated because of it.

The bonus occurs for 4 seconds for all armor types, when you activate a shadow ability. When you have Heavy Armor it gets a bonus duration. Wearing no heavy armor at all, or no armor period, walking around stark naked, you will get the 4 second defensive boost every time you activate a shadow ability.

Undefwun

cavakthestampede wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Glad I just happen to have 2 pieces of HA on..

I can't help but wonder if some folks don't understand the passive, and that this post originated because of it.

The bonus occurs for 4 seconds for all armor types, when you activate a shadow ability. When you have Heavy Armor it gets a bonus duration. Wearing no heavy armor at all, or no armor period, walking around stark naked, you will get the 4 second defensive boost every time you activate a shadow ability.

Oh I get it. Just saying, happy to get a little bit extra because I happen to have 2 HA on.
Also I think OP is saying it's a bit stupid to tie a passive like this to HA in the first place.

WraithAzraiel

cavakthestampede wrote: »

This would provide too great a defensive bonus to medium and light armor wearers who have arguably better resource management tools are their disposal.

However, in PvE tanking the bonus is a necessary one for Nightblade tanks to be as effective at tanking. If this bonus were available in its full (read: Heavy Armor boosted) duration to the other two armor types it would definitely skew the survival ability of DPS Nightblades in PvE and PvP.

You may not agree with it, and based on your post you don't. However, you are wrong. Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

Oh did I touch a nerve? What the hell makes you the authority on quality of opinions and ideas?

You have a right to disagree with me, but offer more evidence than, "No it's OP BAH HUMBUG, your opinion sucks and so do you!"

I'm all for being proven wrong. But so far everyone who has disagreed with me in this thread has failed to provide enough evidence to do so, and you're no different.

What's so bad about making people more survivable for a few extra seconds?
Would that damage your kill/death ratio in PvP so badly?

No not even, as the current tooltip stands, it's a percentage of 4 seconds.

What's so bad about giving that same % of 4 second bonus to anyone wearing at least 5 pieces of one type of armor?

How much of a difference could it possibly make to affect the whole of gameplay, both in PvE and PvP negatively?

What's the harm in giving NB DPS a little extra oomph in the way of survivability?

What's the disadvantage of having an NB DPS in your Dungeon or Trial group that can stay alive just a LITTLE bit better and take just a LITTLE bit of strain off of healers while they DPS their target?

How exactly would it make them OverPowered?

Lay it all out step by step, reasonably and without the hurling of insults as your type are wont to do, and I'll concede the point and ask that this thread be deleted.

WraithAzraiel

You and your entourage can follow each other about, giving each other Agree's and Insightful's all you want. But until one of you give more of a reason than, " NO I DON"T WANT. I ARE SPESHUL!" I'll just continue to ignore your whining.

WraithAzraiel

Undefwun wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Glad I just happen to have 2 pieces of HA on..

I can't help but wonder if some folks don't understand the passive, and that this post originated because of it.

The bonus occurs for 4 seconds for all armor types, when you activate a shadow ability. When you have Heavy Armor it gets a bonus duration. Wearing no heavy armor at all, or no armor period, walking around stark naked, you will get the 4 second defensive boost every time you activate a shadow ability.

Oh I get it. Just saying, happy to get a little bit extra because I happen to have 2 HA on.
Also I think OP is saying it's a bit stupid to tie a passive like this to HA in the first place.

No other class has a passive that blatantly says it's in any way affected by the wearing of a certain type of armor. I believe the requirement of Heavy Armor to receive a % of a second bonus to a passive's timer to be completely arbitrary and unnecessary.

It's dumb, it makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, it's GREAT that its so awesome for NB tanks who apparently for some reason have such problems with resource management. (Effective tanks wouldn't have this problem if they were spec'd and built correctly as tanks and utilized food or drink whilst tanking.)

And I can't see how or why people would defend the way this passive currently is with warnings of it becoming OP if everyone was allowed to use it.

In this case, "because it would" isn't a good enough reason for me.

Darkonflare15

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Glad I just happen to have 2 pieces of HA on..

I can't help but wonder if some folks don't understand the passive, and that this post originated because of it.

The bonus occurs for 4 seconds for all armor types, when you activate a shadow ability. When you have Heavy Armor it gets a bonus duration. Wearing no heavy armor at all, or no armor period, walking around stark naked, you will get the 4 second defensive boost every time you activate a shadow ability.

Oh I get it. Just saying, happy to get a little bit extra because I happen to have 2 HA on.
Also I think OP is saying it's a bit stupid to tie a passive like this to HA in the first place.

No other class has a passive that blatantly says it's in any way affected by the wearing of a certain type of armor. I believe the requirement of Heavy Armor to receive a % of a second bonus to a passive's timer to be completely arbitrary and unnecessary.

It's dumb, it makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, it's GREAT that its so awesome for NB tanks who apparently for some reason have such problems with resource management. (Effective tanks wouldn't have this problem if they were spec'd and built correctly as tanks and utilized food or drink whilst tanking.)

And I can't see how or why people would defend the way this passive currently is with warnings of it becoming OP if everyone was allowed to use it.

In this case, "because it would" isn't a good enough reason for me.

The accuse that because no other class has this is not a valid excuse because night blades do not have a damage shield for the class personally. You are saying that is does not make sense but it does.
It makes sense because obliviously Zos wanted the skill to have a bonus for heavy armor users. Not light or medium because these armors by themselves are good without this passive. A lot people complain about how bad heavy armor is or that it did not have a use. Now we have a skill that makes heavy armor a little useful. They wanted to make tanking for nightblades a little more useful. Saying that is stupid or unnecessary is basically unnecessary because Zos wanted this change in the game.

WraithAzraiel

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Glad I just happen to have 2 pieces of HA on..

I can't help but wonder if some folks don't understand the passive, and that this post originated because of it.

The bonus occurs for 4 seconds for all armor types, when you activate a shadow ability. When you have Heavy Armor it gets a bonus duration. Wearing no heavy armor at all, or no armor period, walking around stark naked, you will get the 4 second defensive boost every time you activate a shadow ability.

Oh I get it. Just saying, happy to get a little bit extra because I happen to have 2 HA on.
Also I think OP is saying it's a bit stupid to tie a passive like this to HA in the first place.

No other class has a passive that blatantly says it's in any way affected by the wearing of a certain type of armor. I believe the requirement of Heavy Armor to receive a % of a second bonus to a passive's timer to be completely arbitrary and unnecessary.

It's dumb, it makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, it's GREAT that its so awesome for NB tanks who apparently for some reason have such problems with resource management. (Effective tanks wouldn't have this problem if they were spec'd and built correctly as tanks and utilized food or drink whilst tanking.)

And I can't see how or why people would defend the way this passive currently is with warnings of it becoming OP if everyone was allowed to use it.

In this case, "because it would" isn't a good enough reason for me.

The accuse that because no other class has this is not a valid excuse because night blades do not have a damage shield for the class personally. You are saying that is does not make sense but it does.
It makes sense because obliviously Zos wanted the skill to have a bonus for heavy armor users. Not light or medium because these armors by themselves are good without this passive. A lot people complain about how bad heavy armor is or that it did not have a use. Now we have a skill that makes heavy armor a little useful. They wanted to make tanking for nightblades a little more useful. Saying that is stupid or unnecessary is basically unnecessary because Zos wanted this change in the game.

I'm not suggesting it be removed.

My suggestion wouldn't make the passive any less useful to Heavy Armor users, but rather open it up to everyone wearing 5 or more pieces of 1 weight of armor.

WraithAzraiel

I'm not trying to make this passive useless to Heavy Armor wearers. I'm trying to open up NB tank's options and make resource management less difficult by suggesting that a 5 piece requirement be used instead of a % of a second per piece of HA used.

It's clunky and poorly implemented as it currently stands. It could be so much more polished and useful if more attention were paid to it. But instead it feels slapped on to silence a specific playerbase.

Code2501

Its simple to understand and is much better than pre 1.6.
Pre 1.6 you got the buff only on exiting stealth or invis.
Post 1.6 you can have the buff up pretty much indefinitely by using any combo of shadow spells.

Regarding the armor effect, it balances the ability of light/med resource generation and hence their ability to spam more shadow spells more often. Per slot is the best implementation because those wearing 5/2 are still taking a slight resource penalty for the 2 heavy pieces.

WraithAzraiel

Code2501 wrote: »

Its simple to understand and is much better than pre 1.6.
Pre 1.6 you got the buff only on exiting stealth or invis.
Post 1.6 you can have the buff up pretty much indefinitely by using any combo of shadow spells.

Regarding the armor effect, it balances the ability of light/med resource generation and hence their ability to spam more shadow spells more often. Per slot is the best implementation because those wearing 5/2 are still taking a slight resource penalty for the 2 heavy pieces.

Best argument all day. Well played.

tist

Don't other classes have abilities that give straight up 8k resistance for a long period of time. Nightblades teh gimp.

WraithAzraiel

tist wrote: »

Don't other classes have abilities that give straight up 8k resistance for a long period of time. Nightblades teh gimp.

Probably, which is why I made this post. Tying this passive's time bonus to 1 type of armor isn't exactly helping all Nightblades.

RavenSworn

Actually.. From what I see... Only nb has the passives that increases both armor and spell resistances.. while the rest has only spell resistance.

Not too sure of which passives you are talking here. Wouldnt that mean nb has a far superior defensive passive?