Defending the moral superiority of the Aldmeri Dominion (spoiler)

JD2013

The ultimate plan of the Thalmor is to undo creation and take away any possibility of human races ever existing.

Please explain how this is morally superior?

WraithAzraiel

JD2013 wrote: »

The ultimate plan of the Thalmor is to undo creation and take away any possibility of human races ever existing.

Please explain how this is morally superior?

So you're judging an entire race on the actions and desires of 1 fanatical sect within it? That's like condemning all Germans from now til the end of time because of the actions of Adolf Hytler (purposefully misspelled because the forums think H i t l er is profanity.). Explain the moral superiority in that!

Far as I'm concerned, the Queen's a saint.

Panda244

BBSooner wrote: »

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

Imo, the Ayleids would still be around if slavery was the worst thing they put man through.

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Ehh, the Thalmor do regular "purges" of non-Altmer in Valenwood and Elsweyr in the 4th era ... so I'd say you're correct that they will always be "allies" - but I'd definitely liken them more to Germany and Austrio-Hungary, than to the allied nations.

I'm comparing the alliance to Stalin and the allies, the Thalmor are complete replicas of *** Germany. Still, doesn't mean all Altmer are jerks.

ThisOnePosts

As someone who PRIMARILY plays AD (although I have characters in each alliance), I will say I think a lot of Altmer NPCs are a**h*les. With that said, #bosmermasterrace

Lastly, EACH alliance is pretty messed up in some way (and each is great in their own ways --- lore & story-wise). You notice this when you play through the different alliances, how they attack & terrorize one another.

Samadhi

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

A rather simple explanation of what transpired at the Hatching Pools would be that a sinister faction operating outside Aldmeri society (the Veiled Heritance, anyone?) undertook this heinous scheme for reasons that had nothing to do with Queen Ayrenn or the Dominion.
...

Thought that the big thing with the Veiled Heritance were that they were racists and isolationists -- they want to be alone on the Summerset Isles and have nothing to do with the mainland politics because they are better than the mainlanders; they act to try to tear down the Dominion because they view themselves as better than the Bosmer and Khajiit.

In contrast to the Veiled Heritance, Queen Ayrenn simply views the three races of the Dominion as being superior to the races of the other alliances and feels an entitlement to rule over the lesser races.
Cannot seem to find it any longer, but there used to be a letter from Ayrenn to the people of the Dominion stating that an Altmer Infant would hold greater maturity and make a better ruler than any of the human races -- had always found it interesting that the ruler had to be Altmer rather than a more open comment such as "any Altmer, Bosmer, or Khajiit could make a better emperor than the races of men."

Do not really comprehend the suggestion that the Veiled Heritance would go out of their way to leave Summerset and strike out against the Dominion's enemies in a dastardly scheme to make the Dominion look bad to people who already view them as someone to struggle against.
If the quest were centered on Altmer killing off the infants of the Bosmer or the Khajiit, then the Heritance would make a lot of sense as a candidate though.

Samadhi

As an off-topic/side note, could someone point me to the racists in the Daggerfall side?

Remember the Dominion for the Veiled Heritance and their presence at the Hatching Pools in EP.
Remember the Dunmer slavers who are trying to kidnap people from Covenant lands because they want to keep using slaves but Argonian slaves are not allowed under the Pact.

The only racial tensions that come to mind offhand with Daggerfall is when Vaermina's minions are trying to manipulate the Bretons against the Redguards and twist the Orc general to turn on King Emeric though.
Daggerfall quests had a whole ton of vampires and zombies but do not recall a lot of racial tensions being focused upon in the questlines -- there is a lot of hints of underlying Orc unrest though, so maybe when the Orsinium adventure zone is released it will be more fleshed out.

Nutronic

All elves in the elder scrolls series are so bloody evil from a cultural stand point it's hard to pardon their whole society when small factions take cultural and religious norms to their extremes.

Altmer are blinded by their own superiority complex and dole our their individualistic views on the other races simply because they think a long life some how means a better grasp of reality. All it really does is make you rigid and inflexible in how you view things and less likely to change. I think queen Ayren is the first major non evil altmer the series has show to have extensive power and influence which is the only think that's really kept her people from being as bad as they could be for future generations. But even then her ideals are rooted in eleven privilege, and on the idea that ANYONE needs someone to guide them or protect them from themselves. Trying to dismiss or diminish the war crimes those people commit or have done in their name even by a rogue faction doesn't change the fact they happened or absolve them of blame. I won't say that the other factions are just as blameless but what the other two are fighting for are.political in nature, the elves though are trying to conquer and using a moral high ground based purely on arrogance and xenophobia.

The Aylieds had slavery, a brutal caste system, and had some very dangerous ideas about messing with Mundus. Dwemer were slavers who's worship of themselves and technology made them potentially more dangerous to all of tamriel than the whole of Akivir...

Seriously, about the most harmless sect of elves were the orsimer and maybe snow elves. And even they caused problems!

I'm no lover of the men races, but at least they know how to take enough to survive and leave it at that. Dark elves could be placed on this same scale but they felt the constant need to invade and enslave other races, royally *** off one of their patron deities, and on top of that have audacity to claim themselves gods through lies, theft and murder....

Seriously, the list of eleven *** baggery is so long it might as well be an elder scroll itself.

This is honestly why I like and empathize with the beast races. Not because they look cool or have some kind of moral high ground, rather instead they mostly leave well enough alone and haven't been the causes of any major catastrophes... yet.

JKorr

http://web.archive.org/web/20130116072906/http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/alliances/aldmeri-dominion
Queen Ayrenn
I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims.

The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake.

Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

Stand with us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
King Emeric
Our supplies dwindle. Our trade routes are shut down. Our people suffer.

Why? Because a pretender sits upon the Ruby Throne.

Let us take up arms! Let the fields of Cyrodiil run red with the blood of our fallen enemies!

But let us spare the lives of a few, so that they may return to their homelands to tell their fellows the fate they met at the hands of the Daggerfall Covenant.

One land! One Emperor!

Who among you will stand with me?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
High King Jorunn
Before Ysgramor led the Nord people south, our ancestors flourished in the frozen continent of Atmora, and to this day our people prefer the bitter climes of northern Tamriel.

The Dark Elves abide in Morrowind, a harsh land of ashfall and perpetual earthquakes.

The Argonians endure the treacherous and impenetrable depths of Black Marsh.

The alliance between our races was born in dark times, when Nord, Dunmer and free Argonians fought as one to repel the invasion of the Akaviri slavemasters.

Our greatest strength is the adversity we have overcome.

Our resolve is glacial, our might is forged in fire, and our courage, cultivated by the beasts of the jungle.

We are Ebonheart. We are as one. And by this, our victory is assured.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Of the three, my personal opinion lies closest to Ebonheart. They want independent homelands, and if they have to defeat the Empire to do it, they will. The Altmer believe they know best, no matter what and don't want to let the lesser races make a mess of things. Daggerfall seem to only care about restoring their trade and profit, which they don't believe will be possible if anyone other than their faction wins.

arena25

Vandril wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

If you need to justify infanticide you're probably delusional.

Exactly! Infanticide needs no justification, for it is already justice!

Anyone who doesn't see that is delusional.

Two words...seek help. Infanticide is not justice, it is cruelty.

If you support infanticide (which by the sound of your post, you do), please seek a mental health professional.

BBSooner

Samadhi wrote: »

As an off-topic/side note, could someone point me to the racists in the Daggerfall side?

Remember the Dominion for the Veiled Heritance and their presence at the Hatching Pools in EP.
Remember the Dunmer slavers who are trying to kidnap people from Covenant lands because they want to keep using slaves but Argonian slaves are not allowed under the Pact.

The only racial tensions that come to mind offhand with Daggerfall is when Vaermina's minions are trying to manipulate the Bretons against the Redguards and twist the Orc general to turn on King Emeric though.
Daggerfall quests had a whole ton of vampires and zombies but do not recall a lot of racial tensions being focused upon in the questlines -- there is a lot of hints of underlying Orc unrest though, so maybe when the Orsinium adventure zone is released it will be more fleshed out.

The Bretons and Redguards frequently sack Orsinium for the sole reason of it being where the Orsimer live. The lack racial tension between the DC races feels odd considering Bretons and Redguards would be known to attack Orsimer for simply being Orsimer. Its one of the reasons why, though I love the geography of the faction, the faction itself feels glossed over.

BBSooner

Panda244 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

Imo, the Ayleids would still be around if slavery was the worst thing they put man through.

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Ehh, the Thalmor do regular "purges" of non-Altmer in Valenwood and Elsweyr in the 4th era ... so I'd say you're correct that they will always be "allies" - but I'd definitely liken them more to Germany and Austrio-Hungary, than to the allied nations.

I'm comparing the alliance to Stalin and the allies, the Thalmor are complete replicas of *** Germany. Still, doesn't mean all Altmer are jerks.

Nope, just the ...

members of the royal court who oppose Ayrenn

... the ...

Thalmor (in any era)

... the ...

Veiled Heritance - who have an oddly large following considering you can't travel 2 minutes in Auridon without running in to some (and that's just including their numbers on the island closest to other races - imagine how many xenophobic jerks are on the mainland of Summerset)

... the ...

members of the dominion who commit the heinous war crimes (including infanticide) in the other sections of the Tamriel

jcasini222ub17_ESO

there is plenty of lore, iI forget the one book, but it basically says we orcs are waiting to enact some unholy level of venegance on the rest of the covenant. Just waiting, waiting to get orsinium back. Which by the way is really frustrating that I'm in an alliance and I can't visit my mountainous home. Needless to say orsimer nation craves a return to orsimium.

Panda244

BBSooner wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

Imo, the Ayleids would still be around if slavery was the worst thing they put man through.

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Ehh, the Thalmor do regular "purges" of non-Altmer in Valenwood and Elsweyr in the 4th era ... so I'd say you're correct that they will always be "allies" - but I'd definitely liken them more to Germany and Austrio-Hungary, than to the allied nations.

I'm comparing the alliance to Stalin and the allies, the Thalmor are complete replicas of *** Germany. Still, doesn't mean all Altmer are jerks.

Nope, just the ...

members of the royal court who oppose Ayrenn

... the ...

Thalmor (in any era)

... the ...

Veiled Heritance - who have an oddly large following considering you can't travel 2 minutes in Auridon without running in to some (and that's just including their numbers on the island closest to other races - imagine how many xenophobic jerks are on the mainland of Summerset)

... the ...

members of the dominion who commit the heinous war crimes (including infanticide) in the other sections of the Tamriel

Congratulations. Want a cookie? My statement still stands.

BBSooner

Panda244 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

Imo, the Ayleids would still be around if slavery was the worst thing they put man through.

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Ehh, the Thalmor do regular "purges" of non-Altmer in Valenwood and Elsweyr in the 4th era ... so I'd say you're correct that they will always be "allies" - but I'd definitely liken them more to Germany and Austrio-Hungary, than to the allied nations.

I'm comparing the alliance to Stalin and the allies, the Thalmor are complete replicas of *** Germany. Still, doesn't mean all Altmer are jerks.

Nope, just the ...

members of the royal court who oppose Ayrenn

... the ...

Thalmor (in any era)

... the ...

Veiled Heritance - who have an oddly large following considering you can't travel 2 minutes in Auridon without running in to some (and that's just including their numbers on the island closest to other races - imagine how many xenophobic jerks are on the mainland of Summerset)

... the ...

members of the dominion who commit the heinous war crimes (including infanticide) in the other sections of the Tamriel

Congratulations. Want a cookie? My statement still stands.

Sure, and I didn't attempt to refute you statement - so dont be so defensive

glak

BBSooner wrote: »

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

Imo, the Ayleids would still be around if slavery was the worst thing they put man through.

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Ehh, the Thalmor do regular "purges" of non-Altmer in Valenwood and Elsweyr in the 4th era ... so I'd say you're correct that they will always be "allies" - but I'd definitely liken them more to Germany and Austrio-Hungary, than to the allied nations.

The use of Eagle imagery and emblems provides a direct correlation to imperial Germany. <<shivers>>

Samadhi

BBSooner wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

As an off-topic/side note, could someone point me to the racists in the Daggerfall side?

Remember the Dominion for the Veiled Heritance and their presence at the Hatching Pools in EP.
Remember the Dunmer slavers who are trying to kidnap people from Covenant lands because they want to keep using slaves but Argonian slaves are not allowed under the Pact.

The only racial tensions that come to mind offhand with Daggerfall is when Vaermina's minions are trying to manipulate the Bretons against the Redguards and twist the Orc general to turn on King Emeric though.
Daggerfall quests had a whole ton of vampires and zombies but do not recall a lot of racial tensions being focused upon in the questlines -- there is a lot of hints of underlying Orc unrest though, so maybe when the Orsinium adventure zone is released it will be more fleshed out.

The Bretons and Redguards frequently sack Orsinium for the sole reason of it being where the Orsimer live. The lack racial tension between the DC races feels odd considering Bretons and Redguards would be known to attack Orsimer for simply being Orsimer. Its one of the reasons why, though I love the geography of the faction, the faction itself feels glossed over.

Yeah, remember the pre-Covenant tensions that carry over, but feel the issues during the Covenant time is downplayed.

The encounters that come to mind are:
On the starter island of Betnikh/Betony (it's Betnikh in our era, it was apparently Betony before ESO, and it apparently becomes Betony again at some point before Daggerfall and is an area contested between Daggerfall and Alik'r in the 3rd Era) the main quest required me to make a decision regarding a relic that had been used to kill Orcs in a war sometime before:

Choosing to banish the relic pleases the Orcs but upsets the Redguard Captain who takes the player to Daggerfall and kicks them off her ship; choosing this option results in a questline in Rivenspire no longer being available.
Choosing to keep the relic upsets the Orcs who feel it will be turned against them -- later on the player can encounter the crew of the ship again who inform him or her that the relic was used to save the Daggerfall fleet from the Dominion, saved the lives of Nicolene's brothers, and then the relic faded from existence without bringing any further harm to the world.
Choosing to keep the relic also makes available a questline to help the crew with a small mission in Shornhelm later on.

A questline in Rivenspire where the Ring of Daggers are hunting down another Breton who committed war crimes against Orcs.

The player is given choice between turning him in to answer for his crimes or allowing him to go free because he has been trying to make amends by donating to an Orc orphanage in Orsinium.

The previously mentioned issues with Vaermina in Stormhaven.

Various delves where Orc bandits are hiding away often contain notes or short delve quests pertaining to how they are rebelling against the Covenant due to the past history of war.

All the alliances seem to have tensions that make their links tenuous to begin with; however, do not feel that the Daggerfall content really makes a big deal about it in current times.
Again, interested in seeing if the tensions play a bigger role in upcoming content, since Wrothgar is supposed to be based in an area where the Orcs are in dispute over their alliance with the Covenant.

Takhistis

They got Thalmor. Anything with such cool name and some kind of elite soldier group rocks!

UrQuan

bellanca6561n wrote: »

The authors and developers of The Hatching Pools were making a universal point, from the Sergeant pleading with his Captain to not do this, noting that the keepers were "Like our Spinners back home," to the soldier whose transfer order was denied, to the Khajiit collaborator who has second thoughts and wants to help you.

I thought those were some great little touches. Made the whole scenario much more believable to me.

Kublakan

Sebastian102 wrote: »

...yet the Aldmeri Dominion is the wisest and most morally superior of the allianses...

The pretension to be the best in wisdom and morality only shows you, as a people, have still a long way to do to reach wisdom and morality peak.

From an orc...

KleanZlate

Sebastian102 wrote: »

Some people seem to believe that the Aldmeri Dominion (2E) and in particular altmers are bad people, yet the Aldmeri Dominion is the wisest and most morally superior of the allianses and i have therefor created this tread hoping to inspire other supporters of the Aldmeri Dominion to protect its moral superiority in events where the Dominions decisions have been put in poor light and wieved from a narrow perspective.

As an example i am going to bring up one of the most criticized decision the dominion has made,

the decision to prevent the hatching and severing the argonians ties to the hist. whiteout perspective of what greater good could justify such a cruel act against the argonian people it is easy to condemn it.

To shed some light of what this greater good could be we must travel to a argonian tribe who had sought shelter in Grahtwood (a region of the Aldmeri Dominion), this argonian tribe whiteout a hist tree to provide them hatchlings had begun to seek alternative ways of gaining hatchlings, one of the tribes shamans had started to train to be a weaver so that she could ask Y´ffre for hatchlings, this alternative way may have succeeded where it not for the foul daedra worshiping shadow scales ( sithis worshiping assassins) who murdered the poor shaman before she had a chance to complete her plans. It is rather unlikely that in an argonian society where Y´ffre is worshiped and under Dominion rule that the shadow scales and their worship of sithis would be allowed to remain and flourish.

Thus had the Dominions plans succeeded the argonian civilization would have to seek alternative ways of gaining hatchlings, that would have taken them to the Dominion away from the dunmer slavers who once the Ebonheart pact dissolves will go back to enslaving the argonians, and to a place where the evil daedric influences would have been crippled.

Thereby by the interference of the villain who interrupted the Dominions operation at the hatchingpools, that villain has robbed the argonians of a chance of riding themselves of the influence of evil daedric princes and condemned their future generations to slavery.

I hope this post inspires supporters of the Dominion to shed light of other events where the Aldmeri Dominion has been put in poor light or perhaps to bring attention to when the Dominion has been at its finest, I remember for example reading conduct regulations in the Aliki´r desert that truly impressed whit the way they were made whit the outmost care for the civilian population, or perhaps bring up the dirt of the other alliances.

I am looking forward to read about our glorious Dominion.

You sir, have achieved the impossible! You've made me hate the arrogant, self-important Dominion even more. I thank you!

Death to the altmer and all their followers!!

Samadhi

JKorr wrote: »

http://web.archive.org/web/20130116072906/http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/alliances/aldmeri-dominion
Queen Ayrenn
I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims.

The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake.

Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

Stand with us.
...

"I have no hatred for the races of men, but they are racially inferior on the whole. They are so much like children, that I would rather have an actual child of my own race as Emperor than see a ruling human."

Yeah no racism here.

Kublakan

BBSooner wrote: »

...The Bretons and Redguards frequently sack Orsinium for the sole reason of it being where the Orsimer live...

Not really, they were angry at us because we ate their horses. But we told them; Orcs dont ride, it run. Horses dont run, it taste!

Cheer!

bellanca6561n

Panda244 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

Imo, the Ayleids would still be around if slavery was the worst thing they put man through.

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Ehh, the Thalmor do regular "purges" of non-Altmer in Valenwood and Elsweyr in the 4th era ... so I'd say you're correct that they will always be "allies" - but I'd definitely liken them more to Germany and Austrio-Hungary, than to the allied nations.

I'm comparing the alliance to Stalin and the allies, the Thalmor are complete replicas of *** Germany. Still, doesn't mean all Altmer are jerks.

They're trying to be, Panda, but that's allegory. In the real world I'm a Jew living in Germany not far from where the Beer Hall Putsch took place in '23 and the next town over is Dachau. Yes, it's a town...has been for about a thousand years before what it brings to mind today.

No such thing as an evil race in other words. There is the evil people do. And not everyone who's part of a country or a regime doing evil things is okay with the plan. That's part of history and part of this game as well.

The reason I get oddly bent over this issue is that I'm serving them contemporary to what's going on at The Hatching Pools. Plus I also felt I was being either trolled here or witnessing something far worse.

Plus I didn't like the Queen. But that's another matter and it has nothing to do with the classic Watergate, "What did you know and when did you know it," sort of thing.

The Dunmers I found interesting for precisely the reasons you cite: it was an extended exposition of the fallacy contained in the phrase, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Yet you have to ask yourself, under the circumstances what would I have done? You even get to meet The Brothers of Strife moments before they are turned. And what does Legate Sadal say?

I wonder what the lens of history will show when our people look back on this day? Will my brother and I be remembered as the saviors of our race? Or will we be known as monsters and horrors?

Moral ambiguity makes for good stories. And the most moving theme for me, personally, is redemption....but that's more an old person thing I think.

Who saves them? Walks In Ash, Holgunn and, to suit the fact that this is a computer game and not a novel or film, you do

The struggle of many races to live together is a persistent theme in the Pact.

It felt more authentic to me which is why it's my favorite among the three.

bellanca6561n

UrQuan wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

The authors and developers of The Hatching Pools were making a universal point, from the Sergeant pleading with his Captain to not do this, noting that the keepers were "Like our Spinners back home," to the soldier whose transfer order was denied, to the Khajiit collaborator who has second thoughts and wants to help you.

I thought those were some great little touches. Made the whole scenario much more believable to me.

Me too, UrQuan. It was well done....but you go back in time to suit the content in Cadwell precious metals and you (well....I) feel I should be trying to stop it from happening.

I'm sure as hell not going to justify it

Samadhi

Remember playing on all the alliances during the beta, including Aldmeri as a Bosmer.
Some of the content in the game was actually what encouraged me to pre-order for the Explorer's Pack to be able to have my Bosmer character not be stuck with the Dominion.

By the end of the beta had the Sex Pistols running on repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2M_hpoPwk
God save the queen
She ain't no human being

Never liked being railroaded through the content for Cadwell's Silver and Gold though.

Wing

Panda244 wrote: »

Also for relevance. The Didact makes some very good points, compare it to the Altmer perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAX61rp87Ts

er my gawd that does fit perfectly if you imagine it from an altmer in TES, funny ***.

Vandril

arena25 wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

If you need to justify infanticide you're probably delusional.

Exactly! Infanticide needs no justification, for it is already justice!

Anyone who doesn't see that is delusional.

Two words...seek help. Infanticide is not justice, it is cruelty.

If you support infanticide (which by the sound of your post, you do), please seek a mental health professional.

Bah. Not only did no one play along, but the only one to reply actually took me seriously. Of course, I'm sure there are strangers on the internet who do feel as I jested, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

Still, this thread is too serious for its own good. <.<

Samadhi

Vandril wrote: »

...
Still, this thread is too serious for its own good. <.<

One of my favourite things about the Elder Scrolls community is is how passionate players can get about issues in the games.
That is a mark of good storytelling to me -- people genuinely care about the world they are experiencing regardless of what side they take on the issues.

Sebastian102

I finally made the effort to travel to Alik´r Desert and find the text I mentioned earlier, I do not know how to screenshot so I wrote it down to the best of my ability as mobs kept spawning on me.

"Aldmeri dominion expeditionary forces,
general order seven

All those who march under the eagle banner represent the glorious heretage of the aldmeri race- yes, even those of the valued ally races- and in occupied areas all troups, regardless of petigree, are required to abide by the military protocols of propriety.

At the most fundemental levelthese protocols number only five, they are presented here in terms comprehensible even by those of lesser intelectual attainment.

ONE: foraging is mandatory, but loting is forbidden

While it is true that regions brougt under the protection of the Aldmeri Dominion are required to pay indemnity-in-kind to support Dominion forces, this indemnity is to be collected whit a strict adherense tothe rule of fifths: one-fifth of all tangible goods and currency in a Dominion protected region belongs to the Dominion. Personal looting is frobidden.

TWO: Pay for what you take

Personal goods aquired by troops in an occupied region are to be paid for at the appropriate market rate. For this purpose all troops are supplied whit a liberal quantity of Dominion scrip, paper curency whitch the locals in an occupied region will be able to redeem after hostilities cease.

NOOTE: troops are not to accept scrip as payment for goods or services.

THREE: do not fraternise whit the locals

The locals in occupied regions often display vulgar behavior, suscribe to improper belief systems, and foment inappropriate ideas. Somtimes they even suffer a false sense of grevance against the Dominion which may manifest itself in dangerous misbehavior. Be a "safe soldier" and fraternize only whit those certified entertainers who hawe been admitted into the recreation compound.

FOUR: Maintain uniform standard of apperance

Do not fall prey to the temptation of adapting local attire, no mater howe comfortable or festive. Maintain that superior reserve that reflects true Aldmeri propriety.

FIVE: Tolerate no disrespect

The forces of the Dominion military are the physical incarnation of the Glory of the Aldmeri peoples, and as such must be respected by members of the tertiary races. Failure to show proper deference to Dominion personal or the Eagle banner is to be immediately punished at the appropriate level of severity ( as delineated in article 317 , deferense and decorum).

If you hawe questions about any of the above, consult your superior officer, or apply to your unit ceremoniarch for the course in Advanced Aldmeri propriety.

In the Queen´s name,
Legate Calevarnel"
I like ONE and TWO, the dominion will not take more than nessesary and will compensate the rest once the war effort is over.

I would like to bring up the prejudicial attitude towards how the Thalmor are, I do not believe the Thalmor has yet to be the intolerant organization we have known them to be in earlier ES games,

basing this mainly on the attitude the Thalmor instructors have towards their bosmer and kajit students after you ridd the Thalmor academy of the Veiled Heritance. Those talmor instructors seemt rather humble towards their students
The earliest time point I know of where the Thalmor are the intolerant organization from the earlier ES games is around the time of the Oblivion crisis, an event that I think is several centuries in the future whereof the Thalmor then have plenty of time to change.