Defending the moral superiority of the Aldmeri Dominion (spoiler)

Sebastian102

Some people seem to believe that the Aldmeri Dominion (2E) and in particular altmers are bad people, yet the Aldmeri Dominion is the wisest and most morally superior of the allianses and i have therefor created this tread hoping to inspire other supporters of the Aldmeri Dominion to protect its moral superiority in events where the Dominions decisions have been put in poor light and wieved from a narrow perspective.

As an example i am going to bring up one of the most criticized decision the dominion has made,

the decision to prevent the hatching and severing the argonians ties to the hist. whiteout perspective of what greater good could justify such a cruel act against the argonian people it is easy to condemn it.

To shed some light of what this greater good could be we must travel to a argonian tribe who had sought shelter in Grahtwood (a region of the Aldmeri Dominion), this argonian tribe whiteout a hist tree to provide them hatchlings had begun to seek alternative ways of gaining hatchlings, one of the tribes shamans had started to train to be a weaver so that she could ask Y´ffre for hatchlings, this alternative way may have succeeded where it not for the foul daedra worshiping shadow scales ( sithis worshiping assassins) who murdered the poor shaman before she had a chance to complete her plans. It is rather unlikely that in an argonian society where Y´ffre is worshiped and under Dominion rule that the shadow scales and their worship of sithis would be allowed to remain and flourish.

Thus had the Dominions plans succeeded the argonian civilization would have to seek alternative ways of gaining hatchlings, that would have taken them to the Dominion away from the dunmer slavers who once the Ebonheart pact dissolves will go back to enslaving the argonians, and to a place where the evil daedric influences would have been crippled.

Thereby by the interference of the villain who interrupted the Dominions operation at the hatchingpools, that villain has robbed the argonians of a chance of riding themselves of the influence of evil daedric princes and condemned their future generations to slavery.

I hope this post inspires supporters of the Dominion to shed light of other events where the Aldmeri Dominion has been put in poor light or perhaps to bring attention to when the Dominion has been at its finest, I remember for example reading conduct regulations in the Aliki´r desert that truly impressed whit the way they were made whit the outmost care for the civilian population, or perhaps bring up the dirt of the other alliances.

I am looking forward to read about our glorious Dominion.

BBSooner

If you need to justify infanticide you're probably delusional.

Cuyler

@Sebastian102 you might want to put the Argonian story behind a spoiler tag so that you don't inadvertently spoil the quest for others who haven't seen it yet. Nice post however!

Jroc

Sebastian102 wrote: »

this alternative way may have succeeded where it not for the foul daedra worshiping shadow scales ( sithis worshiping assassins) who murdered the poor shaman before she had a chance to complete her plans.

Basing arguments on speculation doesn't work.

Sebastian102

Cuyler wrote: »

@Sebastian102 you might want to put the Argonian story behind a spoiler tag so that you don't inadvertently spoil the quest for others who haven't seen it yet. Nice post however!

Howe do i do that?

Rook_Master

So basically what you're saying is that it would be better for the Argonians to be enslaved by the Dominion than the Pact?

They would probably rather not be enslaved at all.

Merlin13KAGL

Sebastian102 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

@Sebastian102 you might want to put the Argonian story behind a spoiler tag so that you don't inadvertently spoil the quest for others who haven't seen it yet. Nice post however!

Howe do i do that?

@Sebastian102 , in your edit window to the left of the emoticons (smiley's) there is a paragraph format drop down.

Highlight the text you want to be in the spoiler, select the dropdown, and select Spoiler.

The text can be left hidden or clicked to be revealed:

It will add tags to make the text appear like this.

Might add the word 'spoiler' to your thread title, if there is room, as well.

UrQuan

Actually, I kind of think that most of the atrocities and morally suspect schemes that all 3 alliances commit in the territories of their opponents can probably be explained by something else entirely, rather than by justifying why it is actually the right thing to do.

We know that Molag Bal is the God of Schemes. We know that he has agents working throughout Tamriel to cause chaos and keep the three alliances at war and off balance. Is it not likely that many of these agents have spent years working their way into positions of command amongst the militaries of the alliances? Is it not also likely that many of these agents would work to be put in command of forces sent to attack the enemies of their own alliance (taking those loyal to them and to Molag Bal with them whenever possible)?

In this way, an agent of Molag Bal who has worked his/her way to a position of command in, for example, the Aldmeri Dominion, can end up in Ebonheart Pact territory without any direct supervision from meddling superiors. Said agent could then commit all sorts of horrible atrocities. This would keep the people of the Ebonheart Pact from wanting to ever make peace with the evil Aldmeri Dominion, while the people of the Aldmeri Dominion would likely dismiss any reports of such acts as enemy propaganda.

If we assume that this is happening with all alliances, it would explain much, since when we do quests within a given alliance's zones, in general the leaders of that alliance seem to be fairly moral and generally decent people, while the invading forces from the other alliances always seem to use nefarious methods.

Merlin13KAGL

There you go, OP

jkemmery

Sebastian102 wrote: »

Some people seem to believe that the Aldmeri Dominion (2E) and in particular altmers are bad people, ...

Forgive me but shouldn't that read "... in particular altmers are bad mer ..."

UrQuan

jkemmery wrote: »

Sebastian102 wrote: »

Some people seem to believe that the Aldmeri Dominion (2E) and in particular altmers are bad people, ...

Forgive me but shouldn't that read "... in particular altmers are bad mer ..."

Altmer, bosmer, dwemer, orsimer, dunmer, badmer...

Vandril

BBSooner wrote: »

If you need to justify infanticide you're probably delusional.

Exactly! Infanticide needs no justification, for it is already justice!

Anyone who doesn't see that is delusional.

lihentian

True..but...

Throren

Why is there a redguard in that Thalmor picture?

Anvos

Lets see, beyond generational genocide of argonians

Invasion of Maomer Lands

Murdering all who rightful oppose Ayren taking a throne she already forfeited and skipped out on 80% or more of the rights that allow one to claim Altmer leadership.

Using a secret police against their own people.

Brainwashing innocent people to become hosts for malevolent forest spirit.

Sacraficing people to angry plants.

Aiding in what is essentially the possession of two people by more ancient spirits.

Also allowing bosmer culture in general to not be fixed of the taint of the Green Pact.

Victus

Sebastian102 wrote: »

...yet the Aldmeri Dominion is the wisest and most morally superior of the allianses

Noooooooope!

On the other hand, it's not like I could name a "wisest and most morally superior" alliance anyway.

Pausekey

Rook_Master wrote: »

So basically what you're saying is that it would be better for the Argonians to be enslaved by the Dominion than the Pact?

They would probably rather not be enslaved at all.

Who cares what they want? They're Argonians. It is their lot in life to spend countless years working in some Kwama mine, with no hope of freedom.

lihentian

Throren wrote: »

Why is there a redguard in that Thalmor picture?

because it is elder scroll online.. you can join the dominion as any race..

p.s. the truth is that i find this picture on google..god knows what is she doing there XD

Samadhi

Sebastian102 wrote: »

this alternative way may have succeeded where it not for the foul daedra worshiping shadow scales ( sithis worshiping assassins) who murdered the poor shaman before she had a chance to complete her plans.

Sithis is neither Aedra nor Daedra.

ThirtySevenCoins

The pointed eared hobgoblins of the Dominion are out of their Altmer minds to believe that only they hold the moral high ground and have a divine right to rule. Typical Altmer arrogance. Death to the Dominion, they shall fall beneath my bloody blade.

Ley

And this is why I didn't join AD.

bellanca6561n

Anyone who plays AD knowing of the Hatching Pools and who thinks the Hatching Pools was okay is broken.

I_killed_Vivec

"the Aldmeri Dominion is the wisest and most morally superior "

The fact you feel the need to say it means it probably isn't true.

Good people shouldn't have to explain their actions...

bellanca6561n

Putting aside for a moment the likelihood that we're all behaving like troll food here, one of the things that bothers me about ESO is that all factions in your faction's story line perform acts ranging from horrible to outright war crime atrocities. The AD is, of course, the worst.

I could understand it more if we were not then nearly forced to play for those factions, become the hero of those factions, under a fiction that's tissue paper thin.

I doubt they would have been written quite that way if the whole Cadwell Silver and Gold scheme had been the plan from the start.

The authors and developers of The Hatching Pools were making a universal point, from the Sergeant pleading with his Captain to not do this, noting that the keepers were "Like our Spinners back home," to the soldier whose transfer order was denied, to the Khajiit collaborator who has second thoughts and wants to help you.

But I didn't play Castle Wolfenstein in the hopes of being able to switch sides at some point.

Phinix1

A rather simple explanation of what transpired at the Hatching Pools would be that a sinister faction operating outside Aldmeri society (the Veiled Heritance, anyone?) undertook this heinous scheme for reasons that had nothing to do with Queen Ayrenn or the Dominion.

Nowhere is it even suggested they were under orders from the Queen, nor that their actions were condoned by her or the Aldmeri government. Not even any little scraps of lore paper ZOS likes to leave us to help fill in the gaps hinted at this.

To assume the actions of one small isolated group which happens to consist of members of a certain RACE must necessarily represent the interests of an entire society is a dangerous and slippery slope indeed.

Furthermore consider the actions we do know were supported by the Aldmeri-led Dominion, specifically the generosity and compassion shown to the entire tribe of Argonians who risked entering Dominion territory whilst fleeing the oppression of Dunmer slavers, who even to this day refuse to condone or adhere to the principles of the newly formed Ebonheart Pact whenever they can get away with it.

From the lore we hear the truth from the Argonians themselves: "We asked these Elves for mercy, for asylum, and instead they GAVE us the Grey Mire!"

A sprawling, fertile, beautiful stretch of land, rich in resources and potential strategic value, simply gifted to a tribe of would-be enemy refuges as an act of mercy and compassion.

If anyone has shown they are capable of rising above the petty draconian politics that would condemn entire races of people because they happen to carry the blood of a current enemy, it would be the Aldmeri Dominion!

The Queen's entire policy is to abolish racial intolerance. It is the Veiled Heritance which clings to ancient racial prejudice, much like the Dunmer traditionalists, which is what leads me to believe it was indeed a cell of THIS faction responsible for the Hatching Pools.

We already know the Heritance was responsible for the enslavement and manipulation of the Goblin tribes to their own political ends. Who's to say they wouldn't attempt to leverage the power of the Hist in a similar way?

bellanca6561n

I am done being troll food for one day for alleged human beings.

bellanca6561n

Sorry....I got a little wacky there.

There are some wonderful quest chains in the Dominion.

My favorite involve Indaenir. This is a story as ancient as story telling.

And the Wilderking quest chain is a tour de force of allegorical fantasy.

BBSooner

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

A rather simple explanation of what transpired at the Hatching Pools would be that a sinister faction operating outside Aldmeri society (the Veiled Heritance, anyone?) undertook this heinous scheme for reasons that had nothing to do with Queen Ayrenn or the Dominion.

Nowhere is it even suggested they were under orders from the Queen, nor that their actions were condoned by her or the Aldmeri government. Not even any little scraps of lore paper ZOS likes to leave us to help fill in the gaps hinted at this.

To assume the actions of one small isolated group which happens to consist of members of a certain RACE must necessarily represent the interests of an entire society is a dangerous and slippery slope indeed.

Furthermore consider the actions we do know were supported by the Aldmeri-led Dominion, specifically the generosity and compassion shown to the entire tribe of Argonians who risked entering Dominion territory whilst fleeing the oppression of Dunmer slavers, who even to this day refuse to condone or adhere to the principles of the newly formed Ebonheart Pact whenever they can get away with it.

From the lore we hear the truth from the Argonians themselves: "We asked these Elves for mercy, for asylum, and instead they GAVE us the Grey Mire!"

A sprawling, fertile, beautiful stretch of land, rich in resources and potential strategic value, simply gifted to a tribe of would-be enemy refuges as an act of mercy and compassion.

If anyone has shown they are capable of rising above the petty draconian politics that would condemn entire races of people because they happen to carry the blood of a current enemy, it would be the Aldmeri Dominion!

The Queen's entire policy is to abolish racial intolerance. It is the Veiled Heritance which clings to ancient racial prejudice, much like the Dunmer traditionalists, which is what leads me to believe it was indeed a cell of THIS faction responsible for the Hatching Pools.

We already know the Heritance was responsible for the enslavement and manipulation of the Goblin tribes to their own political ends. Who's to say they wouldn't attempt to leverage the power of the Hist in a similar way?

Isn't Ayrenn's position that a mer (RE Altmer) should hold the throne because the other races are too young/lacking the wisdom racist in and of itself? Her whole claim to the throne is a game of "at least I'm not that racist". The whole premise behind the dominion is a thinly veiled scheme to convince the mainland races that the narcissistic xenophobic isolationist's should be in charge because "wisdom".

Onebitsoul

All the alliances are pretty bad. The people who are now allies used to be and will be enemies again after Tiber Septim conquers the continent.

Orcs will start killing humans again, the Dunmer will make slaves of the Khajiit and Argonian peoples. The Nords hate everyone. Altmer still think they're the Aryans of Nirn. The Elder Scrolls has to be the most racist video game series I have ever played.

Panda244

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Also for relevance. The Didact makes some very good points, compare it to the Altmer perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAX61rp87Ts

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

BBSooner

Also for anyone that knows lore, Altmer are probably still pissed off the Imperials wiped out their relatives for revenge. You think the Altmer are bad?

Ayleids enslave Alessians, Nedes, etc. (Imperials)

Imperials go on a genocidal rampage on Ayleids. For revenge. (Petty AF, grow up Imps!)

Imo, the Ayleids would still be around if slavery was the worst thing they put man through.

I've always loved, and always will love. Altmer.

Call them racist, call them narcissistic, call them hypocrites. You won't be wrong. But they have one simple, simple, quality that makes me love them above the rest of the races in TES.

Pointy ears.


No really. Pointy ears. Why don't I like Bosmer, and Dunmer then?

Bosmer are cannibalistic tree hugging hippies, I want to burn Valenwood to the ground for more than one reason.

Dunmer are slavers.


In truth though, call me a cold hearted ***. I've always believed that ahem...

"The end justifies the means." - Machiavelli


Not really relevant to the current thread but still. As far as what happens after Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel again, @Onebitsoul the Dominion doesn't really ever break up, I mean it does... But the Khajiit, Bosmer, and Altmer will basically always form an alliance when they have to because they can trust one another better than most. It's like Stalin and the Allies during WWII. Just... Not as bad.

Ehh, the Thalmor do regular "purges" of non-Altmer in Valenwood and Elsweyr in the 4th era ... so I'd say you're correct that they will always be "allies" - but I'd definitely liken them more to Germany and Austrio-Hungary, than to the allied nations.