Why is playing for the objectives discouraged?

Mystikkal

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

ElSlayer

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

[...]

Yes, repairing a wall costs much more AP CURRENCY than you get back, but don't forget that those AP you get back are counted towards your PvP rank progress.

Basically it is AP currency -> PvP rank conversion.
Plus some unnecessary feature like... actually wall repairing (omg, who in whole Tamriel needs that?! )

frozywozy

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

FENGRUSH

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

How do you find from that post that hes complaining about lack of AP?

Mystikkal

I do focus on how to earn ap effectively - which isn't to seige or repair walls - isn't that my point?

Valnas

FENGRUSH wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

How do you find from that post that hes complaining about lack of AP?

Ppl with money aren't in the recycling instead of haunling trash for the cash, it's about dem subsidies. Zeni needs to kick it up.

frozywozy

Mystikkal wrote: »

I do focus on how to earn ap effectively - which isn't to seige or repair walls - isn't that my point?

My point is, if they increase the AP earned from repairing / sieging, the overall gain will be way too much (imo). It is already easy to get AP and I personally don't feel discouraged to drop a siege or repair the wall as I contribute to my faction and the campaign.

Mystikkal

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

I do focus on how to earn ap effectively - which isn't to seige or repair walls - isn't that my point?

My point is, if they increase the AP earned from repairing / sieging, the overall gain will be way too much (imo). It is already easy to get AP and I personally don't feel discouraged to drop a siege or repair the wall as I contribute to my faction and the campaign.

Then reduce the cost of buying repair kits and covenant ballistas. I'm not saying you should get more AP for repairing walls; but it shouldn't cost you 8-10 times the amount that you get back.

AlthoughI do think you should get a small amount of AP for taking a wall down.

You may not feel discouraged to do so - but many ppl do. You should not be penalized for assisting the alliance.

Sypher

I guess if you have to have more incentive to repair or seige then you probably don't care too much for the war effort anyways. It still doesn't hurt to contribute from time to time, but the main motivation comes from helping your alliance fight the war.

I personally don't care for the war scoring, but still repair and siege from time to time.

Tintinabula

all can be bought with gold..which you get from bags...for free...free gold..given to you..to buy wall repair kits..that give you ap...pretty encouraging.

Joy_Division

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

I am only a major, a much lower rank than you, and have 3 million AP. And I do repair busted walls when they need to be fixed. And I do a fair amount of counter-siege. You go through an *extraordinary* amount of AP every time you play with all the siege you put down.

Commendable, to be sure. But not fair IMHO.

Davadin

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

I am only a major, a much lower rank than you, and have 3 million AP. And I do repair busted walls when they need to be fixed. And I do a fair amount of counter-siege. You go through an *extraordinary* amount of AP every time you play with all the siege you put down.

Commendable, to be sure. But not fair IMHO.

jeezus i play almost every night, at least 5 nights a week, for about 2 - 3 hr total on average.

the most ive ever got is 100k. Ever. And yes, i'm only First Sergeant and VR13, but ive been playing PvP for at least 6 months now!
Yes, i spent TONS on sieges and wall repairs and the occasional armor pieces (Ravaging is nice)...

....but 1 - 3 MILLION AP??

There should be some kind of tutorial on how to get max AP/minute or something.

Because i'll admit, the only reason I stop repairing walls are usually due to lack of AP.......

Joy_Division

Davadin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

I am only a major, a much lower rank than you, and have 3 million AP. And I do repair busted walls when they need to be fixed. And I do a fair amount of counter-siege. You go through an *extraordinary* amount of AP every time you play with all the siege you put down.

Commendable, to be sure. But not fair IMHO.

jeezus i play almost every night, at least 5 nights a week, for about 2 - 3 hr total on average.

the most ive ever got is 100k. Ever. And yes, i'm only First Sergeant and VR13, but ive been playing PvP for at least 6 months now!
Yes, i spent TONS on sieges and wall repairs and the occasional armor pieces (Ravaging is nice)...

....but 1 - 3 MILLION AP??

There should be some kind of tutorial on how to get max AP/minute or something.

Because i'll admit, the only reason I stop repairing walls are usually due to lack of AP.......

I don't know. I never tower farmed, never downloaded an add-on that kept track of how much AP I earned per hour, never sat at a resource waiting for people to suicide, or do anything like that.

I heal people, repair some walls/doors, drop some counter-siege when there is room on a castle wall, and on occasion kill a bad guy. Nothing extraordinary.

Actually, there is something I do that is not intended by the developers. Ever since I missed a 10K defense tick back in July or what not, I use the /sitchair emote after the fighting ends at a castle or resource and be sure to I get the AP for a successful defense. I dislike that AP is awarded to people like me who /sitchair instead of helping the alliance in other areas and have told ZoS numerous times in numerous ways it is a fundamentally flawed system. If you pursue the enemy after a successful defense, what often is the correct military move, more often than not you will be losing AP.

I also have not purchased any PvP reward bags, though I do plan on buying 2 Cyrodiil Lights rings.

Mystikkal

Joy_Division wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

I am only a major, a much lower rank than you, and have 3 million AP. And I do repair busted walls when they need to be fixed. And I do a fair amount of counter-siege. You go through an *extraordinary* amount of AP every time you play with all the siege you put down.

Commendable, to be sure. But not fair IMHO.

jeezus i play almost every night, at least 5 nights a week, for about 2 - 3 hr total on average.

the most ive ever got is 100k. Ever. And yes, i'm only First Sergeant and VR13, but ive been playing PvP for at least 6 months now!
Yes, i spent TONS on sieges and wall repairs and the occasional armor pieces (Ravaging is nice)...

....but 1 - 3 MILLION AP??

There should be some kind of tutorial on how to get max AP/minute or something.

Because i'll admit, the only reason I stop repairing walls are usually due to lack of AP.......

I don't know. I never tower farmed, never downloaded an add-on that kept track of how much AP I earned per hour, never sat at a resource waiting for people to suicide, or do anything like that.

I heal people, repair some walls/doors, drop some counter-siege when there is room on a castle wall, and on occasion kill a bad guy. Nothing extraordinary.

Actually, there is something I do that is not intended by the developers. Ever since I missed a 10K defense tick back in July or what not, I use the /sitchair emote after the fighting ends at a castle or resource and be sure to I get the AP for a successful defense. I dislike that AP is awarded to people like me who /sitchair instead of helping the alliance in other areas and have told ZoS numerous times in numerous ways it is a fundamentally flawed system. If you pursue the enemy after a successful defense, what often is the correct military move, more often than not you will be losing AP.

I also have not purchased any PvP reward bags, though I do plan on buying 2 Cyrodiil Lights rings.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler agree that the time it takes to get a "tick" after you defend an objective needs to be looked at. Rather than go do what you should do, e.g. go help something that is getting attacked, people sit for a minute waiting for a tick. Then one enemy gets killed, and you wait again. This needs to be fixed.

AhPook_Is_Here

Objectives cause lag and lag is worse than pointlessness. Therefore the new objective is pointlessness.

eliisra

Davadin wrote: »

There should be some kind of tutorial on how to get max AP/minute or something.

Because i'll admit, the only reason I stop repairing walls are usually due to lack of AP.......

Dont bother with objectives lol. Focus on farming fresh players. Best done in a group between 4-12 players.
Avoid the biggest zergblob areas where everyone goes, because enemies there aren't worth anything. They're tagged by half the guys on the campaign, while their AP value is down to minimum, due to dying multiple times.

I do agree with the topic. Only reason for objectives is faction pride, bragging rights and similar. But individually you gain nothing. Stuff like emperor buff, best stamina heal, loads of money from selling box loot and so on, these things will go to the AP farmer first. Not the guys that's hitting walls with ballistas and repairing.

Tintinabula

as soon as the keep turns the tick should happen..it doesn't for you?

Draxys

Davadin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

I am only a major, a much lower rank than you, and have 3 million AP. And I do repair busted walls when they need to be fixed. And I do a fair amount of counter-siege. You go through an *extraordinary* amount of AP every time you play with all the siege you put down.

Commendable, to be sure. But not fair IMHO.

jeezus i play almost every night, at least 5 nights a week, for about 2 - 3 hr total on average.

the most ive ever got is 100k. Ever. And yes, i'm only First Sergeant and VR13, but ive been playing PvP for at least 6 months now!
Yes, i spent TONS on sieges and wall repairs and the occasional armor pieces (Ravaging is nice)...

....but 1 - 3 MILLION AP??

There should be some kind of tutorial on how to get max AP/minute or something.

Because i'll admit, the only reason I stop repairing walls are usually due to lack of AP.......

There's not really any mysterious way of getting higher AP gains, it's just a matter of whether or not you have a good leader/group that can find good fights. Got 60k AP in 30 minutes a couple weeks back, all it takes is recognizing the opportunity.

Mystikkal

Tintinabula wrote: »

as soon as the keep turns the tick should happen..it doesn't for you?

Offensive ticks work that way, not defensive. My undersatnding is that defensive ticks take a minute and that minute is refreshed every time another enemy is killed.

frozywozy

eliisra wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

There should be some kind of tutorial on how to get max AP/minute or something.

Because i'll admit, the only reason I stop repairing walls are usually due to lack of AP.......

Dont bother with objectives lol. Focus on farming fresh players. Best done in a group between 4-12 players.
Avoid the biggest zergblob areas where everyone goes, because enemies there aren't worth anything. They're tagged by half the guys on the campaign, while their AP value is down to minimum, due to dying multiple times.

I do agree with the topic. Only reason for objectives is faction pride, bragging rights and similar. But individually you gain nothing. Stuff like emperor buff, best stamina heal, loads of money from selling box loot and so on, these things will go to the AP farmer first. Not the guys that's hitting walls with ballistas and repairing.

Weird. I see it the other way around. People who don't care about objectives and will only AP farm do it for bragging rights to show off their alliance rank. People who complete objective and fight for the campaign usually don't care about their alliance rank and bragging rights.

Draxys

Mystikkal wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

as soon as the keep turns the tick should happen..it doesn't for you?

Offensive ticks work that way, not defensive. My undersatnding is that defensive ticks take a minute and that minute is refreshed every time another enemy is killed.

Correct. Offensive ticks happen immediately after a keep flips, defensive ticks go off a minute (or maybe 1.5 minutes, can't remember exactly) after combat on the grounds.

Davadin

Mystikkal wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just curious why we discourage people from repairing walls / using covenant ballistas? repairing a wall costs 10 times what you get back - so people refuse to do it. Using a covenant ballista uses AP and you don't really get much back in return.

I mean I get you don't want to get people to exploit these to jump up the leaderboards, but you can get around that in other ways (e.g. limit how many repairs someone can do in a certain time period). I also get that you don't want people to flock to keeps cause of lag - you can spread people out in other ways; not sure you should punish ppl who are playing the objectives correctly?

I play 1hour or 2hours a day average and during my playtime, I drop at least 20 siege weapons on the ground and I use around 100repair kits~. I'm at 1million AP at the moment. I dunno what's the problem with the cost of siege equipement you're talking about.

I think the thing you need to focus on is how to earn ap effectively.

I am only a major, a much lower rank than you, and have 3 million AP. And I do repair busted walls when they need to be fixed. And I do a fair amount of counter-siege. You go through an *extraordinary* amount of AP every time you play with all the siege you put down.

Commendable, to be sure. But not fair IMHO.

jeezus i play almost every night, at least 5 nights a week, for about 2 - 3 hr total on average.

the most ive ever got is 100k. Ever. And yes, i'm only First Sergeant and VR13, but ive been playing PvP for at least 6 months now!
Yes, i spent TONS on sieges and wall repairs and the occasional armor pieces (Ravaging is nice)...

....but 1 - 3 MILLION AP??

There should be some kind of tutorial on how to get max AP/minute or something.

Because i'll admit, the only reason I stop repairing walls are usually due to lack of AP.......

I don't know. I never tower farmed, never downloaded an add-on that kept track of how much AP I earned per hour, never sat at a resource waiting for people to suicide, or do anything like that.

I heal people, repair some walls/doors, drop some counter-siege when there is room on a castle wall, and on occasion kill a bad guy. Nothing extraordinary.

Actually, there is something I do that is not intended by the developers. Ever since I missed a 10K defense tick back in July or what not, I use the /sitchair emote after the fighting ends at a castle or resource and be sure to I get the AP for a successful defense. I dislike that AP is awarded to people like me who /sitchair instead of helping the alliance in other areas and have told ZoS numerous times in numerous ways it is a fundamentally flawed system. If you pursue the enemy after a successful defense, what often is the correct military move, more often than not you will be losing AP.

I also have not purchased any PvP reward bags, though I do plan on buying 2 Cyrodiil Lights rings.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler agree that the time it takes to get a "tick" after you defend an objective needs to be looked at. Rather than go do what you should do, e.g. go help something that is getting attacked, people sit for a minute waiting for a tick. Then one enemy gets killed, and you wait again. This needs to be fixed.

thats why ive been saying replace flags with NPC bosses.

BossTuggles

Buying repairs has always been just converting your points into Alliance xp to me. I have never really had an issue buying anything in the game so far with Alliance points. In fact I have never bought anything using the gold option. For the people in this thread complaining about how little AP they get, perhaps you should stop running around in your notorious blobs of people and do something outside the herd mentality. Stop being sheep.

I always looked at it like if I repair this wall, I will in turn be able to defend the keep gaining more ap/xp in the long run. Look at it as an investment.