Valkyn Skoria - nerfed?

Vandril

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Why cant they just get rid of this pvp nerifng *** almost 80% of the nerfs happen cause of pvp, i may have pulled that number out of my ass but i know for sure most nerfs happen due to pvp, its destroying this game i feel now discouraged to play and you people who think this is a good change well id look at the set and read it "4% chance to proc" that is so little its a joke to even attempt using it.

Obviously. Because a single item set bonus which buffed PvE AoE DPS by upwards of 70% by its lonesome couldn't possibly have caused the PvE nerf due to being overpowered in PvE, right?

No, never. Of course not.

Nice to see people pulling figures straight out of their a**es and passing them off as fact.

Actually, I was pulling the numbers out of reports of lowered AoE DPS from this very thread.

If they're wrong, don't blame me.

Jules

Observant wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

Why are there people complaining that an exploitable bug was fixed?
It was never meant to apply the cool-down to the targeted person(s), only the caster.

Imagine if my Bogdan totem proc'd for every healed person in my group instead of giving me the cool-down?

You are falling for the oldest lazy Dev. trick in the MMO handbook - the 'something we programmed that way quite deliberately needs (after much player 'playtesting') to be changed because we fracked up... so we'll call it a 'bug/unintended effect etc.' and change it to something else'.

Yeah... God forbid they actually admit they made a mistake and need to correct it, and, you know APOLOGISE for everyone's wasted time!

The Valkyn Skoria set is the hardest two piece head/shoulder set to get hold of. Hardest vet dungeon, low, low drop rates.

People had every reason to believe the set was as good as it was because it was harder to achieve.

No-one was exploiting anything - and if you go around believing everything Zenimax say to cover up the real reasons for their mistakes, you'll probably fall for anything...

I derped hard here, yes. I had no idea the set didn't have a cool-down stated in the item description, I'm sorry. I was caught up in the stupid OP Title wording (Nerfed). But to "not notice" an exploit so obvious is sheer ignorance.

In case you were unclear- nerfed is just a general slang term for if something is changed to be less worthwhile than it had been originally. And there was a question mark implying uncertainty. It was appropriately used.

Nerfed isn't slang, it's a real technical term with a defined meaning.

e.g

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am tired of you nerfing my endgame gear for PVP.

This was a legitimate bug, @timidobserver. And a bad one at that. It needed to be fixed. It's not a nerf (a change to something that was working as designed.)

Edit - Here's the answer to the cooldown you guys have been looking for:

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The meteor proc has a 5 second cooldown which should be checking a timer that is rooted on the player who has the armor on, however this particular set was checking against each individual target the player with the set damaged (every time they got damaged) resulting in many more meteor's than designed proc'ing from this set.

Find me a single reputable dictionary site with "nerfed" in it. You won't be able to. Why? Because It's not a "real technical term". It's gaming jargon. The fact that you would even defend that just proves you don't have google.

And all of this is entirely unrelated to the fact that 1) you made an ignorant post the first time 2) you then tried to redeem yourself to everyone else but called me stupid in the process. 3) you entirely missed the point because I am absolutely not stupid and the word nerfed was used as intended.

(Not all that observant eh?)

Lmfao, oh Jules.
I said your title wording is stupid, not you. Why are you so personally butt-hurt over this?
I used that definition, because it's the definition of "Nerfing" in these very forums, as described and outlined by the Admins. I'm merely passing along information.

(If anything, overly-Observant, eh)

Hardly butthurt, just aiming for clarification. Anyway, not gonna continue to indulge this. Would much rather squash beef and move on. Have a good one.

Mantic0r3

Observant wrote: »

Edit - Here's the answer to the cooldown you guys have been looking for:

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The meteor proc has a 5 second cooldown which should be checking a timer that is rooted on the player who has the armor on, however this particular set was checking against each individual target the player with the set damaged (every time they got damaged) resulting in many more meteor's than designed proc'ing from this set.

Could you plz link the origin of this quote? I would like to talk to Mr brian -.-

edit: nvm found it...zenimax getting worse by the day

o_0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_(video_gaming)

Reputable enough for me.

byrom101b16_ESO

Vandril wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Why cant they just get rid of this pvp nerifng *** almost 80% of the nerfs happen cause of pvp, i may have pulled that number out of my ass but i know for sure most nerfs happen due to pvp, its destroying this game i feel now discouraged to play and you people who think this is a good change well id look at the set and read it "4% chance to proc" that is so little its a joke to even attempt using it.

Obviously. Because a single item set bonus which buffed PvE AoE DPS by upwards of 70% by its lonesome couldn't possibly have caused the PvE nerf due to being overpowered in PvE, right?

No, never. Of course not.

Nice to see people pulling figures straight out of their a**es and passing them off as fact.

Actually, I was pulling the numbers out of reports of lowered AoE DPS from this very thread.

If they're wrong, don't blame me.

For clarification - that's why I said people, not you. But you did quote them like it was fact, which is in a way, just as bad...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

PS I have been a major supporter of this game since launch but I'm about done. You work hard to get a set and then they ruin it. Awesome

So they're not supposed to fix a severely broken skill because some people want to continue being OP.

Have I got that right?

Bye.

Vandril

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Why cant they just get rid of this pvp nerifng *** almost 80% of the nerfs happen cause of pvp, i may have pulled that number out of my ass but i know for sure most nerfs happen due to pvp, its destroying this game i feel now discouraged to play and you people who think this is a good change well id look at the set and read it "4% chance to proc" that is so little its a joke to even attempt using it.

Obviously. Because a single item set bonus which buffed PvE AoE DPS by upwards of 70% by its lonesome couldn't possibly have caused the PvE nerf due to being overpowered in PvE, right?

No, never. Of course not.

Nice to see people pulling figures straight out of their a**es and passing them off as fact.

Actually, I was pulling the numbers out of reports of lowered AoE DPS from this very thread.

If they're wrong, don't blame me.

For clarification - that's why I said people, not you. But you did quote them like it was fact, which is in a way, just as bad...

True. Though you quoted me (and only me) to say it (and only it), which one would think meant you were directing the post toward me.

Besides, there's as much evidence that the nerf was for the sake of PvE as there is that it was for PvP. So my taking their numbers as truth without evidence is no worse than your complaining that it was a PvE nerf due to PvP without evidence. The set bonus was as much desired as an AoE DPS boost in PvE as it was an anti-zerg tool in PvP, after all.

Besides, while it may be bad to take their numbers as truth, that's rather my point. If the nerf is as bad as the players in this thread claim, then that means that it was overpowered in PvE and deserved the nerf. If it is not so bad, then that means the nerf isn't that bad and isn't really worth complaining about anyway. Think about it: either the bonus from the gear was substantial enough to deserve the nerf or it was too small to really bother worrying about. You can't have both when the average set bonus doesn't add all too much to DPS.

Edit: Further clarified some points. Also, spelling.

KeplerMG

And as I predicted, the Meteor ultimate is still being spammed and lagging out the server. The problem is that when cast on moving targets, it misses and ultimate is not used up, so it can be cast over and over again until it finally hits. I'm sick and tired of typing this all over the forum and in bug reports and seeing them NERF gear instead of fixing the actual problem, the mechanics of Meteor itself. This is the last time I'll say it. I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

timidobserver

Vandril wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Why cant they just get rid of this pvp nerifng *** almost 80% of the nerfs happen cause of pvp, i may have pulled that number out of my ass but i know for sure most nerfs happen due to pvp, its destroying this game i feel now discouraged to play and you people who think this is a good change well id look at the set and read it "4% chance to proc" that is so little its a joke to even attempt using it.

Obviously. Because a single item set bonus which buffed PvE AoE DPS by upwards of 70% by its lonesome couldn't possibly have caused the PvE nerf due to being overpowered in PvE, right?

No, never. Of course not.

Nice to see people pulling figures straight out of their a**es and passing them off as fact.

Actually, I was pulling the numbers out of reports of lowered AoE DPS from this very thread.

If they're wrong, don't blame me.

For clarification - that's why I said people, not you. But you did quote them like it was fact, which is in a way, just as bad...

True. Though you quoted me (and only me) to say it (and only it), which one would think meant you were directing the post toward me.

Besides, there's as much evidence that the nerf was for the sake of PvE as there is that it was for PvP. So my taking their numbers as truth without evidence is no worse than your complaining that it was a PvE nerf due to PvP without evidence. The set bonus was as much desired as an AoE DPS boost in PvE as it was an anti-zerg tool in PvP, after all.

Besides, while it may be bad to take their numbers as truth, that's rather my point. If the nerf is as bad as the players in this thread claim, then that means that it was overpowered in PvE and deserved the nerf. If it is not so bad, then that means the nerf isn't that bad and isn't really worth complaining about anyway. Think about it: either the bonus from the gear was substantial enough to deserve the nerf or it was too small to really bother worrying about. You can't have both when the average set bonus doesn't add all too much to DPS.

Edit: Further clarified some points. Also, spelling.

There is a lot of disagreement over whether it is technically a nerf and what constitutes a nerf. However, most rational people, at the very least, agree that this nerf/change/bugfix/whatever was PvP driven. There is no other reason for the Lead PvP Designer to bring it up in a discussion about fixing Cyrodil Performance issues.

Particularly when the patch notes point it out that Cyrodil is where it was most noticed at~~~> "Fixed an issue with the Valkyn Skoria set where it was unintentionally proccing multiple casts of Meteor within a single global cooldown. This was particularly noticable in Cyrodiil."

Vandril

KeplerMG wrote: »

And as I predicted, the Meteor ultimate is still being spammed and lagging out the server. The problem is that when cast on moving targets, it misses and ultimate is not used up, so it can be cast over and over again until it finally hits. I'm sick and tired of typing this all over the forum and in bug reports and seeing them NERF gear instead of fixing the actual problem, the mechanics of Meteor itself. This is the last time I'll say it. I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

You should make this information your signature, then just refer to it every time instead of retyping it all.

timidobserver wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

Why cant they just get rid of this pvp nerifng *** almost 80% of the nerfs happen cause of pvp, i may have pulled that number out of my ass but i know for sure most nerfs happen due to pvp, its destroying this game i feel now discouraged to play and you people who think this is a good change well id look at the set and read it "4% chance to proc" that is so little its a joke to even attempt using it.

Obviously. Because a single item set bonus which buffed PvE AoE DPS by upwards of 70% by its lonesome couldn't possibly have caused the PvE nerf due to being overpowered in PvE, right?

No, never. Of course not.

Nice to see people pulling figures straight out of their a**es and passing them off as fact.

Actually, I was pulling the numbers out of reports of lowered AoE DPS from this very thread.

If they're wrong, don't blame me.

For clarification - that's why I said people, not you. But you did quote them like it was fact, which is in a way, just as bad...

True. Though you quoted me (and only me) to say it (and only it), which one would think meant you were directing the post toward me.

Besides, there's as much evidence that the nerf was for the sake of PvE as there is that it was for PvP. So my taking their numbers as truth without evidence is no worse than your complaining that it was a PvE nerf due to PvP without evidence. The set bonus was as much desired as an AoE DPS boost in PvE as it was an anti-zerg tool in PvP, after all.

Besides, while it may be bad to take their numbers as truth, that's rather my point. If the nerf is as bad as the players in this thread claim, then that means that it was overpowered in PvE and deserved the nerf. If it is not so bad, then that means the nerf isn't that bad and isn't really worth complaining about anyway. Think about it: either the bonus from the gear was substantial enough to deserve the nerf or it was too small to really bother worrying about. You can't have both when the average set bonus doesn't add all too much to DPS.

Edit: Further clarified some points. Also, spelling.

There is a lot of disagreement over whether it is technically a nerf and what constitutes a nerf. However, most rational people, at the very least, agree that this nerf/change/bugfix/whatever was PvP driven. There is no other reason for the Lead PvP Designer to bring it up in a discussion about fixing Cyrodil Performance issues.

Particularly when the patch notes point it out that Cyrodil is where it was most noticed at~~~> "Fixed an issue with the Valkyn Skoria set where it was unintentionally proccing multiple casts of Meteor within a single global cooldown. This was particularly noticable in Cyrodiil."

Whelp... Ya got me there. I dismissed the mention of Cyrodiil in the patch notes due to the fact that it's undeniably true - it was noticeable there due to all the constant zerging, with nearly every AoE-build PvPer clambering for the set - but I hadn't seen the thread/discussion the lead PvP Designer mentioned that in.

I'm rather confused about their PvP intention for the change, though. The problem with performance is very obviously not fixed, nor even noticeably lightened. In fact, I doubt this set's bug was even a large enough part of the overall problem to even consider looking at for performance reasons. Well, I suppose that is unless there are innumerable small performance-hindering issues forcing them to pick off a bunch of small causes to feel any effect at all.

In any case, I stand by my point. With how weak nearly every set bonus is, this particular bonus either deserved the nerf or isn't worth complaining about the nerf for. Nearly every set bonus in the game is just a nice little bonus. If people are noticing a massive (or even noticeable) DPS loss due to this recent change, then it was overpowered.

Malmai

Jules wrote: »

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

PS I have been a major supporter of this game since launch but I'm about done. You work hard to get a set and then they ruin it. Awesome

Agreed. I ran COA 30+ times to get the helm and grinded out vet dailies 3x a day for about 2 weeks to get the shoulders. Very disappointing if this severely affects the set.

Try with over 80 runs mostly hardmode and still no helm maybe?

nalimoleb14_ESO

Figures, another incredibly difficult set to acquire gets slammed with the nerf bat after months of farming for it. At this point I'm starting to wonder why ZOS intentionally releases these sets without actually testing them, and then months later royally screw over the players who've spent hours upon hours to get the sets? And then they hit us with a 'jk jk this set actually wasn't working as intended so we've made it very mediocre as a middle finger to all your hard efforts.' I didn't farm this set for months for a bulls*** minor dps increase. Oh, and the 'equalized the global cooldown for this item set so it’s more in-line with other item sets' is hilarious. You can word it however you want to, a nerf is still a nerf.

Alcast

Only AoE dmg is nerfed, but it still does highest dps from all the undaunted sets. Single target dps from it is still the SAME.

Panda244

I never used Valkyn on my DK, it's useless in PvP because it can be blocked, it use to be able to be reflected, and in PvE having a raw spell damage set or a full 5 set is better imo.

Never use anything that isn't 100% reliable.



Unless it looks cool. And the shoulder. Does not.

Cuyler

This set is still great dps....the change just brought the AoE damage in line instead of being ridiculous.

Jules

Panda244 wrote: »

I never used Valkyn on my DK, it's useless in PvP because it can be blocked, it use to be able to be reflected, and in PvE having a raw spell damage set or a full 5 set is better imo.

Never use anything that isn't 100% reliable.



Unless it looks cool. And the shoulder. Does not.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it looks so cool

Ygaer

Hey all, can anyone confirm that I'm understanding how Valkyn Skoria works now? There was a little bit of confusion when I was talking about it with the people I was in vet DSA with. They insisted that it could proc on different mobs within a 5 second window. My understanding was that the fix was to apply the global cooldown to the player, instead of the target, so that if you proc a meteor on anything, you can not proc it again within 5 seconds. They were insisting I was wrong during the run because both of them were running the set and we had a decent stream of meteors going. I don't have the set to test myself, and I see the conversation in the beginning of this thread indicates my understanding is correct, I just want to be absolutely sure before I do the ol' "told-you-so".

Jules

Ygaer wrote: »

Hey all, can anyone confirm that I'm understanding how Valkyn Skoria works now? There was a little bit of confusion when I was talking about it with the people I was in vet DSA with. They insisted that it could proc on different mobs within a 5 second window. My understanding was that the fix was to apply the global cooldown to the player, instead of the target, so that if you proc a meteor on anything, you can not proc it again within 5 seconds. They were insisting I was wrong during the run because both of them were running the set and we had a decent stream of meteors going. I don't have the set to test myself, and I see the conversation in the beginning of this thread indicates my understanding is correct, I just want to be absolutely sure before I do the ol' "told-you-so".

You are right, they are wrong.
VS used to be able to proc on diff mobs in AOE bc the cool down applied to mob, not the player. Now it applies to the player and can only proc once every ~5 sec.