Changes that could improve vampire play.

Airik32180

For quite a few players, one of the lures to elder scrolls online along with its solo player games is the fact you can play a vampire or werewolf. While balance of course is a primary key, adding a few abilities seen in other games and NPC's for that matter would be even more alluring to potential players. Players like myself came to elder scrolls for the sole reason of being able to play a vampire or werewolf....

An example: Let's use the vampire thrall from the dominion quest line, they can do a teleport right on top of their prey. Such a power could be employed by vampire players.

I realize that each skill line typically has about ten spots, so thinking outside the box, why not have vampire or werewolf moved from world, to an additional race skill line after all you are joining another race.

Adding a few minor powers to make playing both races a bit more alluring could be a great thing, for example as mentioned above the short distance teleport that blood thralls use which is akin to the sorcerer's bolt escape only of course without damage upon arrival or using it as an escape.

You could also approach this by adding a new skill line, or making improvements to the current ones that only vampire or werewolf players can access. Using again vampires as the example it would be nice to have enriched story lines and quests added to the game. The blood matron when you turn, tells you to form families, this now becomes a quest line leading to a vampire guild akin to the mage/fighter's guilds. Which would either add a new skill line, or improve and add new skills to the vampire skill line itself. The quest-line like the mage guild would be to create safe havens for vampires near player cities which would be in a graveyard and the entrance would be a cliche but a mausoleum. Players would need to do quests that involved recruiting by making thralls to help build these under ground safe havens which would start the set of daily quests to keep vampire players busy. Several other quest ideas could come from this as well for we all know the Blood Matron has a hatred for Molag Bal for making her the first vampire and she does vow they will rise up against him. This again is a possible quest idea along with countless other daily quests to keep the haven's safe and populated with vampires or willing victims. Once the haven is constructed the blood matron now resides in the haven or at least a shrine in each one for those that have been bitten. The haven would have vendors, and quests which would lead to vampire based weapons, gaining new skill sets, and prompting possible pvp attacks by the fighters guild or dawn guard should it be added. Gaining the new skill line which could be named Vampire Lord after the skyrim version which could include some of the following vampire power examples.

Possible power additions.

Telekinesis- which would be nothing more than either knock back that causes damage or a stun.

Claws- When you encounter vampires in the wild they don't have weapons... but they sure do try to claw you... The same needs to be of vampire players by adding a power that allows you to grow claws in the place of a weapon.

An activated form of blood ritual which replaces the former passive blood ritual. It allows vampire players to create an area of effect around them in which they can turn willing players. This still can only be performed every so many days and the player being turned still has to carry out the quest line of the blood matron. Changes to this however is the player being infected HAS to either carry out the quest or find a cure, other wise they become a lessor vampire such as a thrall when it ends, and gives them a very limited blood thrall skill line that only includes feeding and blood drain which again would force them to either complete the quest or a cure.

Bat form- Taking the form of a giant bat which could be a combat ability, or an ability to move quickly to escape a fight.

Seduction- which is a very limited stun that would allow a vampire player to feed on a city or combat NPC and allow them to escape before the effect wore off. This could also be used in combat.

Blink- ( or some other name) Like the NPC blood fiends, this ability allows the player to teleport a distance away from where they are. It would have a low mana cost as it causes no damage upon arrival. Somewhat like the mage's bolt escape power.



The vampire sanctuary could be in every city, and of course have shrine to the Blood Matron in each one. These areas could be a meeting place for vampire characters to go for vampire specific repeatable daily quests, as well as vendors in the sanctum. ( the same should be for werewolf players having their own sanctum of sorts)

Disadvantages


GUARDS CHASE YOU!- at stage 3&4 you obviously don't look mortal any more and should prompt guards to fight the vampire threat. This also would add another feature, vampires like theft, can sneak to feed on city NPC's and if caught of course causes a bounty. (Werewolf players on full moons or at night in the game should also face having physical changes if they haven't fully fed (requiring) them to feed on woodland animals at night to give them back their appearance (example they could get furry faces or something at night to make guards suspicious)

Arkay Priests could be added to cities in which their very presence causes vampires to stage faster than normal should they stay around an Arkay symbol for too long.....

Changing the feeding animation- You're a vampire! you have fangs, some vampire players truly enjoy the an animation of actually biting your victim instead of sucking blood through the air. While you could still do the blood sucking through the air on enemy NPC's but vampires having to feed in a city on non combat NPC's should have an actual bite animation, or feeding on those sleeping which would require vampires to lock pick to get into houses at night to feed on sleeping residents.

A travel power to replace the horse for vampires and werewolves could be interesting, vampires could assume the giant bat form, and werewolves have an increased running speed, or both of them have a running element that would allow them to run fast for travel.


Adding the Dawnguard skill line- add a dawngaurd guild which only non vampire players and non werewolf players can join. I realize that the fighters guild has a dawnguard power, but that too could be re-vamped so to speak. Adding this of course should have some strong perks for not turning vampire or werewolf and give players some abilities to balance things out should they encounter vampires and werewolves in PvP.

Fenris

I swear I just read this exact same post just a minute ago in another new thread you created.

Raash

Yup deja vu

Airik32180

I admit it is posted twice, my computer crashed when attempting to post the first time, this is why. I am apologetic for your deja vu...

Huntler

Why did you create two threads? And just in case this one gets more attention, my response to the other:


No.


edit: No.

Vampires already have some of the strongest passives and abilities in the game. For a very long time they were even game breaking in the early game. These abilities and passives are still extremely strong for certain builds and the right scenarios. The ideas you are proposing are just outright broken. Giving vampire anything close to anything else that is strong would just be completely game breaking balance wise in PvP and turn it back into a required skill line which is just silly. The abilities suggested are downright broken and your solution to the balance problems they face is to say, oh well give non vamprires a skill line to counteract these massively broken/OP abilities but don't give any sort of reasonable idea on how to balance it.


So. No.

Fleshreaper

Airik32180 wrote: »

Players like myself came to elder scrolls for the sole reason of being able to play a vampire or werewolf....

Really? I mean, that's the ONLY reason you came to play Elder Scrolls?

Airik32180 wrote: »

An example: Let's use the vampire thrall from the dominion quest line, they can do a teleport right on top of their prey. Such a power could be employed by vampire players.

I realize that each skill line typically has about ten spots, so thinking outside the box, why not have vampire or werewolf moved from world, to an additional race skill line after all you are joining another race.

Adding a few minor powers to make playing both races a bit more alluring could be a great thing, for example as mentioned above the short distance teleport that blood thralls use which is akin to the sorcerer's bolt escape only of course without damage upon arrival or using it as an escape.

You mean, like a Nightblades teleport strike? NPC vampires have class skills, also.

LameoveR

It's not a Vampire:Masquerade Online, or Skyrim Online, or closed World of Darkness, or any other iwannabe online.

frould

Agree that vamp need cool bat/vamp lord transform or something more fun but somehow it very hard to balance.

And lol talking about ww in pvp better they get rid of stamina regen while in human form so people can't complain about then make ww ulti toggle/free (and re-balance a bit) .

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

To the original poster, very cool ideas. It would be nice if the devs would take a good look at them and see what they can do. But considering how the really never fixed the primary problem with the werewolf, I doubt they will do anything to the vampire. Though I seem the remember on one of the ESO Live shows they did say that they were looking at the vampire skill line.

I think it would be great if there were special quest lines for both vampire and werewolf.

Airik32180

I think any additions to the game would be a great thing. And yes as an avid vampire player I too fear an influx of vampire players but then again you have 8 characters you can make lol. Also if you follow the elder scrolls mythology, the dawn guard could be a very logical choice to implement in order to entice others to not play a vamp or werewolf. Give them specific abilities that make them immune to being fed upon, certain powers that only effect vampires and werewolves etc.


But a few simple powers

Fix blood ritual into an active ability that can be cast anywhere but still has the same cool down and turned players still need to do the quests.

A crowd control or claw power would be great.

Feeding in cities if caught has the same punishment as pick pocketing.

and stages 3/4 cause guards to attack you.

And of course add some elder scrolls mythology into the mix to develop plot and quest lines for such characters. After all if you play you know ESO is set before any of the single player games. So it would be nice to see Harkon and his family before they were turned from the skyrim edition dawnguard.

Airik32180

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Airik32180 wrote: »

Players like myself came to elder scrolls for the sole reason of being able to play a vampire or werewolf....

Really? I mean, that's the ONLY reason you came to play Elder Scrolls?

Yes Fleshreaper as hard for some as it may be to understand.. the only reason i started playing oblivion, skyrim and left world of warcraft for ESO was to play a vampire. And I am sure I am not the only one.

LameoveR

It will take some time before OP will start new thread about "let's reduce vamp's fire weakness".

OP, you'd better take a look at Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines. It's all about vamps.

Airik32180

Fire damage should remain the same, and include city guards attacking you if you're stage 4. The simple additions I have suggested would not make vampires any more stronger as they would be active abilities and you can only have so many powers slotted at once. If anything it would make things just more interesting. Obviously those of ill-favor just don't play a vampire character.

Airik32180

And no LameoveR it shouldn't be anything like VTMB, this is elderscrolls and the mythology of elderscrolls should be implemented which would include quests and factions just like the fighters guild or mages or undaunted, to provide a balance you simply add the dawnguard faction.... Simple as that.

Airik32180

frould wrote: »

Agree that vamp need cool bat/vamp lord transform or something more fun but somehow it very hard to balance.

And lol talking about ww in pvp better they get rid of stamina regen while in human form so people can't complain about then make ww ulti toggle/free (and re-balance a bit) .

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Obscure

Airik32180 wrote: »

...to provide a balance you simply add the dawnguard faction.... Simple as that.

Agreed.

A third, non-undead blood-sucker, non-hound-of-hircine, faction is all that is required to improve vampire play. Give players a reason to not be a vamp or WW, polarize them, let the choice have some tangible meaning, an actual trade off. Could just do it with the Fighter's Guild as is. You a Vamp or a WW? Ok, you no longer have access to Fighter's Guild skills or passives. Sure that kinda sucks for the players running around trying to RP "Blade: The Day Walker, The Vampire Kin-slayer", but mechanics should never be driven by RP. Sucks for an extreme minority, benefits the vast majority. "Needs of the many" type thing.

Simple as that. It's literally all that should be in your original post.

Aevric

Vampires should also be attacked on-sight by all guards, when past a certain stage. Werewolves in wolf form should be as well.
Once the justice system is fleshed out, besides hunting thieves, we should be able to hunt vampires and werewolves.

Xjcon

Do this, then make them extremely vulnerable to fire, so that I can run around with flames of oblivion and it pretty much 1 shots them if they get close.

Iago

The lore does support Vampires as they are currently. Count Verandis Ravenwatch and his disciple Gwendis are both known camps and none of the NpC's who know try to kill them on sight.

Hortator Mopa

Iago wrote: »

The lore does support Vampires as they are currently. Count Verandis Ravenwatch and his disciple Gwendis are both known camps and none of the NpC's who know try to kill them on sight.

Are you trying to say that a normal vamp should not be kos'ed?
Also the lore has already been altered a incredible amount to cater or vamps in eso..

Iago

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

The lore does support Vampires as they are currently. Count Verandis Ravenwatch and his disciple Gwendis are both known camps and none of the NpC's who know try to kill them on sight.

Are you trying to say that a normal vamp should not be kos'ed?
Also the lore has already been altered a incredible amount to cater or vamps in eso..

No Vampires should not be killed on site and they didn't alter the lore to create the strain of vampirism. and since this takes place before all the other Elder Scrolls games it could very well be that the events taking place now why vampired and WW's are hated so much by the time the events of Morrowind take place.

TheRealDoc

Too late, I already cured my Vampirism because of the siege damage changes!

Ebonson

Vamps aren't that bad where they are. They have great passives and a kick ass ultimate the two active abilities could be improved though. The biggest being that Drain Essence should still drain/damage stun immune targets and elusive mist should remove all CC when used, maybe give it a longer duration. If these two changes were made I'd be perfectly happy with my vamp, I'd even be for the guards attacking at stage 4, it'd make things more interesting.

Mr.Turtlesworth

I do agree that werewolf and vampirism do not seem as significant of a choice as they shøüłd be.

Hortator Mopa

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I do agree that werewolf and vampirism do not seem as significant of a choice as they shøüłd be.

They are a curse.

WraithAzraiel

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

I do agree that werewolf and vampirism do not seem as significant of a choice as they shøüłd be.

They are a curse.

And curses should be nothing but disadvantages! How dare you make things interesting Bethesda Zenimax Zenimax's Loremaster ESO Systems Designers!!

Airik32180

can we get on topic and actually discuss what would work vs what some hates?

it is a curse, that much is agreed. Which is why at vamprisim 4 guards should attack. Feeding on city NPC's should be allowed to further the bounty system and if vampires are to be attacked by guards.

A claw attack would be a decent reasonable add.

A quest line of dailies.


Players could have a blessing that would make them immune to being fed upon in PVP which could help the non v players be satisfied.

Story line that explains the Dawnguard being a possible break off of the Fighters guild.

For fellow vampire players what would you like to see that is BALANCED suggestions?

WraithAzraiel

Airik32180 wrote: »

can we get on topic and actually discuss what would work vs what some hates?

it is a curse, that much is agreed. Which is why at vamprisim 4 guards should attack. Feeding on city NPC's should be allowed to further the bounty system and if vampires are to be attacked by guards.

A claw attack would be a decent reasonable add.

A quest line of dailies.


Players could have a blessing that would make them immune to being fed upon in PVP which could help the non v players be satisfied.

Story line that explains the Dawnguard being a possible break off of the Fighters guild.

For fellow vampire players what would you like to see that is BALANCED suggestions?

Bro.

Somebody mentioned a full on Dawnguard-esque DLC that includes a full on remastering of the Vampire and Werewolf lines, along with the addition of a Dawnguard line for those who have no desire to play as either creature, and I think it's a fantastic idea. What about you, how would something like that sound to you?

Sorry for derailing your thread, dude.

As far as a claw attack active ability? I don't think it would work as well as perhaps a CC Charm ability would, sort of like how Sorcerer's Rune Prison works. Whatcha think of that?

Iago

you don't vampires instead of mist form should have a really good cloak something that'll let them walk right up on top of their prey before they even know what's going on

WraithAzraiel

So if you could get a Dawnguard line, what would be some of the skills you'd want to see?

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quotes]

Dev

Seriously. What is with all the vamp hate?

everyone keeps talking about lore.... however that past should not overwrite the present... In other words: The reputation we earn for the actions we do today are known far beyond our travels. IE: This is why when you actually listen to the NPCs talk, they are acknowledging what you did for them.-

I quick reminder: Early in each of the factions, the player character is officially recognized and becomes an ally of that faction's leader. Not even to mention what we did for the city/village itself. You save them from a horde of angry worm cultists/bandits/diseases/etc and you think they should kill you? this makes sense with the precious lore?

Did you forget that even if you did not choose to be a ww or a vw, your still not 'human'. Our souls were stolen and we just happened to be the soul shriven that was specially chosen by a certain aedra... (dont want to spoil it for the < 50's)

Oh, and don't forget Malog Bal, the big bad deadra trying to suck up the world and the you the 'vamp' is the one who stopped (or is trying)

Sure thousands of vamps may have killed and done messed up things, but the PC is the one who saved them.


The lore of 500 years ago may be important, but they shouldn't forget the lore of the guy who saved their hide.