Siege hurts. Here's how to make it not.

Attorneyatlawl

I have seen some complaints lately about the recently buffed siege weapons which now are around as effective as during beta. People act as though there is no way to fight or mitigate it, and that is not correct. Armor and spell resist help mitigate it significantly (tested personally chasing red circles all night during sieges a couple of days ago), purge gets rid of the dot's and only needs to be carried by a handful of people in your group or area since it's a nice big aoe, siege bubble shield reduces it by 35% for a moderate area for around 20 seconds and can be dropped in chokepoints as your team rolls in, damage shields help buffer you from the initial hit, as do extra hitpoints.

Add in that it is almost always completely avoidable by sprinting out or walking out (barely ever need a dodge roll to get out f the spreading circle since it lands so slowly) and the overall balance of siege weaponry is good now. It busts low skilled zergs and blobs. It leaves players alive to have the actual fight. And it adds a lot more depth to combat in Cyrodiil, allowing defenders a chance to use the walls at keeps or terrain instead of waiting for them to fall since there's no viable way of preventing the inevitable .

And before someone says they're a vampire.... elusive mist. That is all you need.

Hopefully this helps shed some light for people and sparks more non glasscannon squishymode builds .

Septimus_Magna

I dont think many people (vamps excluded) get killed by siege damage alone. The problem is during fights when you have pressure from multiple enemies one fire ballista hit basically kills you. The initial damage is high and dot needs to be purged, the extra burst of damage makes it very easy for enemies to kill you, especailly for temps with their Jesus Beam.

Personally I think a 35% damage buff for siege weapons would have been enough, the 50% damage buff just seems too much.

Merlin13KAGL

It definitely requires you be much more aware of your feet than before, especially if you start to get in some crossfire from different siege at different angles/locations.

It makes it harder to assault...it should.

It now gives a handful of individuals defending the opportunity to make a dent, vs just doing minor damage (likely not even killing anyone) while waiting for the inevitable suck that will eventually follow.

Personally, I think there should be more AoE DoT's from siege weaponry - snares from standard trebuchettes (consider the debri that would be left behind), other effects from other types (burning, snare, disorient), and point blank hits from ballistas should knock you back, as a minimum.

I would like to be able to adjust the angle/view on some of these more. I don't believe that ballista fire couldn't be angled up or down. Right now, you're kind of limited if there is no high ground to be had.

Attorneyatlawl

@Septimus_Magna judging by the ingame chats and forum posts I have seen talking about being "one-shotted" by "25k" or "30k" siege hits (which they just see in their after-death log all mashed together by default including the dot and multiple hits).... I don't think people generally understand how to build or adjust their play to deal with the increased risk and situational positioning needed just yet. That's why I made this thread in the hopes some might see it and try fiddling so they can live .

Flaminir

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

That's why I made this thread in the hopes some might see it and try fiddling so they can live .

I don't want them to live... I want them all to burn... MOAR AP!

runagate

Also, you can have your countersiege use the Bastion of the Heartland set:

• (2 items) Adds 129 Max Health
• (3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
• (4 items) Reduce damage taken from players by 5%
• (5 items) Reduce damage taken from siege weapons and player AoE spells by 20%

I haven't seen so many people wearing heavy Akaviri helms in 6 months!

In addition to using Purge to remove DoTs and having healers on-hand to heal the countersiege through the damage, you can have a DK casting Obsidian Shield, a healer wearing Prayer Shawl to proc the group-wide shield set bonus, or someone casting Spiked Bone Shield and someone else to synergize it, creating a shield that reflects damage on the dealer. There are many options, but the AvA skill Siege Weapon Shield is wonderful:

Create a protective sphere over your location that reduces damage from siege weapons to you and your allies by -35%.
The sphere also protects your allies' siege weapons, reducing damage from enemy siege weapons by 75%.

Merlin13KAGL

runagate wrote: »

Also, you can have your countersiege use the Bastion of the Heartland set:

• (2 items) Adds 129 Max Health
• (3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
• (4 items) Reduce damage taken from players by 5%
• (5 items) Reduce damage taken from siege weapons and player AoE spells by 20%

I haven't seen so many people wearing heavy Akaviri helms in 6 months!

In addition to using Purge to remove DoTs and having healers on-hand to heal the countersiege through the damage, you can have a DK casting Obsidian Shield, a healer wearing Prayer Shawl to proc the group-wide shield set bonus, or someone casting Spiked Bone Shield and someone else to synergize it, creating a shield that reflects damage on the dealer. There are many options, but the AvA skill Siege Weapon Shield is wonderful:

Create a protective sphere over your location that reduces damage from siege weapons to you and your allies by -35%.
The sphere also protects your allies' siege weapons, reducing damage from enemy siege weapons by 75%.

@runagate , does that work? I thought Spiked only returned melee damage or is it listed as 'physical?'

runagate

For siege? I have no idea; I wasn't implying that, just stating it's description. I can't imagine it'd work as, if "melee" damage is specifically categorized, as siege damage clearly is if the Bastion set protects against it, then there's probably no accident in the code that would make this work.

Attorneyatlawl

One would hope not, at least.

Lorkhan

if you arent using purge, you are doing it wrong

Hypertionb14_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I have seen some complaints lately about the recently buffed siege weapons which now are around as effective as during beta. People act as though there is no way to fight or mitigate it, and that is not correct. Armor and spell resist help mitigate it significantly (tested personally chasing red circles all night during sieges a couple of days ago), purge gets rid of the dot's and only needs to be carried by a handful of people in your group or area since it's a nice big aoe, siege bubble shield reduces it by 35% for a moderate area for around 20 seconds and can be dropped in chokepoints as your team rolls in, damage shields help buffer you from the initial hit, as do extra hitpoints.

Add in that it is almost always completely avoidable by sprinting out or walking out (barely ever need a dodge roll to get out f the spreading circle since it lands so slowly) and the overall balance of siege weaponry is good now. It busts low skilled zergs and blobs. It leaves players alive to have the actual fight. And it adds a lot more depth to combat in Cyrodiil, allowing defenders a chance to use the walls at keeps or terrain instead of waiting for them to fall since there's no viable way of preventing the inevitable .

And before someone says they're a vampire.... elusive mist. That is all you need.

Hopefully this helps shed some light for people and sparks more non glasscannon squishymode builds .

Thank you for saying what more people need to be saying.

There are 100% ways to survive Seige hits, just be smart.

Flaminir

I posted this in another thread, but feels very relevant here too...

So... after reading about all of this I went to Cyro for the 1st time in a week...

I was thinking of changing my gear setup for PvP anyway, so figured this would be a good opportunity to see how 5 heavy felt (Rather then 5 light... I'm a magicka Sorc) given the increased siege damage.

And you know what... its fine.

Really.

In fact I think the changes to siege damage are excellent! I wasn't dieing to them at all... walk out of the stupid when you see the red telegraph... didn't even have to dodgeroll. With a bit of heavy armor if I was clipped by any of it then I didn't die.

But a lot of people were dropping like flies all around to it as they were just standing in the stupid, not getting out of the way, and then just standing there when they did get hit... no heals, no purges.

It made defending keeps more interesting & as if you had a chance, rather than waiting for the fait acompli of a wall breach. It also made assaulting keeps more interesting than just standing there spamming ballista bolts not having to worry about getting hit.

Those who are dieing will adapt. Change gear, learn to roll, learn to watch for the red.

But if you are hit with a great big flaming balista bolt then it SHOULD hurt! Its given a little extra dimension to siege warfare which many people always complained was quite dull & two dimensional because of the lack of damage.

I like it. In fact I would go as far as to say its one of my favorite changes in PvP so far.

Swarog

Leave siege power as is. Don't change it back.

ZOS_AlanG

Hi guys. A there is already an active thread about this in the Alliance War forum, we're going to lock this one. Everyone is welcome to continue the discussion in here: Siege Damage Intended to hit for 24k?