Non VR alts XP gain counts toward Champion Points

posthumecaver

Hi guys,

I am sure most of you wants the same thing.

I think if you have an one single VR character, if you are gaining XP with with your non VR alt that XP should count for earning CPs.

For me the game with VR chars little bit dull, I always enjoy learning new classes/skills because think about it, what can u do with your VR char, personally I do the daily undaunted quests (and I am not in a trial quild) park my VR char and go playing low level alts, learning new class/skills are much more fun than, doing the same rotation for million times in a maxed out char.

I see that they already have the idea that CP point you get are already available for low level alts but I think it should be completely other way around. The XP you earn should count to CP progression of your veteran char.

Otherwise what I really want it to play my alt, learn new classes/skills but I am forced to play my Vet char.

Spottswoode

Petitions aren't allowed per the forum rules. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules#latest You'll be getting a mod post soon to the same effect. If you change the topic to discuss this matter, it may stay open.

posthumecaver

Happy?

Spottswoode

Not really. But you have to admit it's better than a locked thread.


This has been suggested before and I agree with this. Particularly since the champion system is as grindy as it is.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

It seems crass to me a 1-50 can spend CPs but not earn them, especially from the point of view of the serious problem of disparity between new/returning players without a single VR comapred to those with several VR14s.

oRioNoTime

+1
I want to make an alt but the non-cp exp from 1-50 is blocking me!

Keron

I tried to find the old discussion on this but couldn't... Anyways, my opinion on that is still the same: No. Champion points are intended to be an alternative enhancement system apart from levels, that allows improvement for characters upon reaching max level and to prevent the item spiral that can be found in any MMO that does not have one or the other system for "alternative advancement" (depreciation of highly valued rewards upon increase of the level cap, that being a regular occurrence).

If anything, even the use/application of CPs should be restricted or even prevented for chars below max level (which for this purpose is 50 respectively VR1).

smokes

nope, nope and a little more nope.

the champion system is a long term gradual evolution intended for max level characters and to be earned by max level characters.


if you could earn CP on an alt, imagine how many VR14 characters there would be who had botted/grinded/exploited on alts specifically to get CP for their mains.

delete alt > start again

this would create a massive power vacuum between those willing to abuse the system and those who don't

sorry, but the potential for exploitation and abuse is far too great

posthumecaver

Well personally I find more meaningless that my VR char does my low level Alt OP by using CP points.

I mean all those Magicka, Stam reg buffs, why a lvl 10 char should need all that stuff.

I am not saying a XP that lvl 10 char earns count 1-1 on Champion XP of VR char. Lets say you earn XP with your VR char that counts for 50 XP and you earn with lvl1 that counts 1 XP then it will not feasible to exploit the system.

In that way you will prevent the abuse but then in game I can do what I want, not what I am force to do.

LtCrunch

posthumecaver wrote: »

Well personally I find more meaningless that my VR char does my low level Alt OP by using CP points.

I mean all those Magicka, Stam reg buffs, why a lvl 10 char should need all that stuff.

I am not saying a XP that lvl 10 char earns count 1-1 on Champion XP of VR char. Lets say you earn XP with your VR char that counts for 50 XP and you earn with lvl1 that counts 1 XP then it will not feasible to exploit the system.

In that way you will prevent the abuse but then in game I can do what I want, not what I am force to do.

You can do what you want now, you're just not letting yourself. That's not the developers problem, but due to your own personal holdups.

Rosveen

smokes wrote: »

nope, nope and a little more nope.

the champion system is a long term gradual evolution intended for max level characters and to be earned by max level characters.


if you could earn CP on an alt, imagine how many VR14 characters there would be who had botted/grinded/exploited on alts specifically to get CP for their mains.

delete alt > start again

this would create a massive power vacuum between those willing to abuse the system and those who don't

sorry, but the potential for exploitation and abuse is far too great

If the XP rate stays the same, I don't see this grinding disaster you describe. You'd get what, 10 CP before reaching VR1? You might as well go grind mobs with your main character.

Sharee

Rosveen wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

nope, nope and a little more nope.

the champion system is a long term gradual evolution intended for max level characters and to be earned by max level characters.


if you could earn CP on an alt, imagine how many VR14 characters there would be who had botted/grinded/exploited on alts specifically to get CP for their mains.

delete alt > start again

this would create a massive power vacuum between those willing to abuse the system and those who don't

sorry, but the potential for exploitation and abuse is far too great

If the XP rate stays the same, I don't see this grinding disaster you describe. You'd get what, 10 CP before reaching VR1? You might as well go grind mobs with your main character.

I came to the same conclusion while leveling my new alt from the beginning. At first, i thought, what a waste, all this XP could have counted towards my CP. But then, i realized:

Each CP costs a fixed amount of XP, 400.000. However low level characters have XP gains that are on a completely different scale. Kill a mob and get 24 XP for it. Any CP gains at this level would be completely meaningless, and the side effect would be, players would complain, OMG, the CP bar moves so slow!!! Basically the same problem that VR1 character faces when earning normal XP toward next VR rank.

However, by playing that non-vet, you technically are earning CP, indirectly, through enlightenment that keeps accumulating on your account since you are not using it up. My new alt reached V1, and i am earning CP at a high rate because i am constantly enlightened.

posthumecaver

Brandalf wrote: »

posthumecaver wrote: »

Well personally I find more meaningless that my VR char does my low level Alt OP by using CP points.

I mean all those Magicka, Stam reg buffs, why a lvl 10 char should need all that stuff.

I am not saying a XP that lvl 10 char earns count 1-1 on Champion XP of VR char. Lets say you earn XP with your VR char that counts for 50 XP and you earn with lvl1 that counts 1 XP then it will not feasible to exploit the system.

In that way you will prevent the abuse but then in game I can do what I want, not what I am force to do.

You can do what you want now, you're just not letting yourself. That's not the developers problem, but due to your own personal holdups.

Nope, I don't want to play my VR chars because it is boring but if I play my VR I will earn CP for my VR and low level Alts.

I want to play my low level Alt but I am not going earn any CP for VR and low alts.

So I am forced to play my VR from the developers it has nothing to do with my choices.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Then, as stated you would need to ask for low level mob xp to be buffed. This is why I always found it silly the champ system is even open below vr ranks. You would complete glenumbra and earn a champ point. You literally could grind champ points faster than rolling an alt and playing 1-50 instead. Equally if your vr is boring it will be boring when the 'vr' part is removed as well.

posthumecaver

Sharee wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

nope, nope and a little more nope.

the champion system is a long term gradual evolution intended for max level characters and to be earned by max level characters.


if you could earn CP on an alt, imagine how many VR14 characters there would be who had botted/grinded/exploited on alts specifically to get CP for their mains.

delete alt > start again

this would create a massive power vacuum between those willing to abuse the system and those who don't

sorry, but the potential for exploitation and abuse is far too great

If the XP rate stays the same, I don't see this grinding disaster you describe. You'd get what, 10 CP before reaching VR1? You might as well go grind mobs with your main character.

I came to the same conclusion while leveling my new alt from the beginning. At first, i thought, what a waste, all this XP could have counted towards my CP. But then, i realized:

Each CP costs a fixed amount of XP, 400.000. However low level characters have XP gains that are on a completely different scale. Kill a mob and get 24 XP for it. Any CP gains at this level would be completely meaningless, and the side effect would be, players would complain, OMG, the CP bar moves so slow!!! Basically the same problem that VR1 character faces when earning normal XP toward next VR rank.

However, by playing that non-vet, you technically are earning CP, indirectly, through enlightenment that keeps accumulating on your account since you are not using it up. My new alt reached V1, and i am earning CP at a high rate because i am constantly enlightened.

I don't care with what rate we earn XP for CP but I just want to earn something so I don't feel the urge the play all the time my VR char while I want to play my Alts.

LtCrunch

posthumecaver wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

posthumecaver wrote: »

Well personally I find more meaningless that my VR char does my low level Alt OP by using CP points.

I mean all those Magicka, Stam reg buffs, why a lvl 10 char should need all that stuff.

I am not saying a XP that lvl 10 char earns count 1-1 on Champion XP of VR char. Lets say you earn XP with your VR char that counts for 50 XP and you earn with lvl1 that counts 1 XP then it will not feasible to exploit the system.

In that way you will prevent the abuse but then in game I can do what I want, not what I am force to do.

You can do what you want now, you're just not letting yourself. That's not the developers problem, but due to your own personal holdups.

Nope, I don't want to play my VR chars because it is boring but if I play my VR I will earn CP for my VR and low level Alts.

I want to play my low level Alt but I am not going earn any CP for VR and low alts.

So I am forced to play my VR from the developers it has nothing to do with my choices.

Thanks for confirming exactly what I said.....you're making a conscious decision not to do what you "want" and blaming ZOS for that decision. GG

Keron

@posthumecaver
I don't understand what you are aiming at. You say yourself that you don't have any interest in playing your veteran level chars, but instead rather focus on playing you below-veteran-level alts. What need do you have for champion points? The whole content, group as well as solo, below veteran stages, is fully tailored for players without champion points. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to have champion points in that level range.

olsborg

oRioNoTime wrote: »

+1
I want to make an alt but the non-cp exp from 1-50 is blocking me!

This, and the fact that alliance rank, undaunted rank and achivments etc etc is not account based. I simply cant make an alt until all of this is remedied.

Tankqull

yeah give me back the coldharbor zombi spot for 150k xp per 15min

posthumecaver

Keron wrote: »

@posthumecaver
I don't understand what you are aiming at. You say yourself that you don't have any interest in playing your veteran level chars, but instead rather focus on playing you below-veteran-level alts. What need do you have for champion points? The whole content, group as well as solo, below veteran stages, is fully tailored for players without champion points. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to have champion points in that level range.

Ok, to express more clearly, I am not against playing VR chars, as I said at the beginning I am doing my daily undaunted's and park that char, because I can only take that much of boredom for shouting 1hr for LFG and clearing a dungeon in 2hrs with PUGs by doing the same dungeons, same skill, same rotations for million times.

Because of the CP and if you want to progress in it, you can't just park a VR char and do something else with low alts because you will not get anything.

Last 2 days I am only playing my DK low alt, I didn't get any XP for my VR CP, what is bothering me, I always feeling the urge to play the VR char but knowing too well that I will enjoy more the playing the low alt.

posthumecaver

Brandalf wrote: »

posthumecaver wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

posthumecaver wrote: »

Well personally I find more meaningless that my VR char does my low level Alt OP by using CP points.

I mean all those Magicka, Stam reg buffs, why a lvl 10 char should need all that stuff.

I am not saying a XP that lvl 10 char earns count 1-1 on Champion XP of VR char. Lets say you earn XP with your VR char that counts for 50 XP and you earn with lvl1 that counts 1 XP then it will not feasible to exploit the system.

In that way you will prevent the abuse but then in game I can do what I want, not what I am force to do.

You can do what you want now, you're just not letting yourself. That's not the developers problem, but due to your own personal holdups.

Nope, I don't want to play my VR chars because it is boring but if I play my VR I will earn CP for my VR and low level Alts.

I want to play my low level Alt but I am not going earn any CP for VR and low alts.

So I am forced to play my VR from the developers it has nothing to do with my choices.

Thanks for confirming exactly what I said.....you're making a conscious decision not to do what you "want" and blaming ZOS for that decision. GG

Let me guess you are one of those forum warriors isn't?

Sharee

posthumecaver wrote: »

Because of the CP and if you want to progress in it, you can't just park a VR char and do something else with low alts because you will not get anything.

Like i said, while your VR is parked and you are playing a low level alt, your account is collecting enlightenment. That is virtually the same thing as getting CP for free, since it will allow your alt, once it hits VR, to earn one XP and get three XP for free on top of that.

You can accumulate up to 12 days of enlightenment this way. I did the same thing as you did, make a new DK alt and play that, and in 12 days he was vr1, and now he is earning CP like a champ because he is cashing in all the enlightenment that accumulated while he was a lowbie. I am VR2 now, and i still haven't run out of enlightenment (and i don't expect to until he is vr5 or so)

LtCrunch

posthumecaver wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

posthumecaver wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

posthumecaver wrote: »

Well personally I find more meaningless that my VR char does my low level Alt OP by using CP points.

I mean all those Magicka, Stam reg buffs, why a lvl 10 char should need all that stuff.

I am not saying a XP that lvl 10 char earns count 1-1 on Champion XP of VR char. Lets say you earn XP with your VR char that counts for 50 XP and you earn with lvl1 that counts 1 XP then it will not feasible to exploit the system.

In that way you will prevent the abuse but then in game I can do what I want, not what I am force to do.

You can do what you want now, you're just not letting yourself. That's not the developers problem, but due to your own personal holdups.

Nope, I don't want to play my VR chars because it is boring but if I play my VR I will earn CP for my VR and low level Alts.

I want to play my low level Alt but I am not going earn any CP for VR and low alts.

So I am forced to play my VR from the developers it has nothing to do with my choices.

Thanks for confirming exactly what I said.....you're making a conscious decision not to do what you "want" and blaming ZOS for that decision. GG

Let me guess you are one of those forum warriors isn't?

No,just sick of people complaining about things that are completely within their control. I have a very low tolerance for stupidity in general and these forums are full of it. I call things like I seem them. If you don't like it or want to label it, then go right ahead. I don't really care what your opinion on my opinion is.

Lifsteinn

I don't agree with that, Champion System is designed to be high-end system for high-level characters and that should stay that way.
What you are looking for is a way to diminush the grind, and I would say we have to actually eliminate it.
As I stated many times here in forums, you should be able to get max level (and also max Champion Points) in 3 months or so with normal gameplay time (kind of 4 hours a day). And, obviously (just not for ZOS), grind should never be the best option to level!

Merlin13KAGL

They already do in a sense.

When you are not on your VR character, your enlightenment pool grows. Since it's now cache-able up to 12 days, you are effectively gaining bonus XP's with the 4x multiplier for your VR character that you would expend if you stayed on your VR character exclusively.

The 12 day cushion is there specifically to allow you time to play Alts and to allow you to not fall behind if you have to break from the game for almost 2 weeks.

Regarding CP placement of <50 characters, there should be a cap and they should only be allowed a percentage of the CP's (again, up to a cap). This would provide some of the benefit of their 'big brother/sister' without allowing them to be as OP at low level as the current system makes them.

Your level (not-VR) character should be doing what non-VR characters do, helping the world and working towards becoming more on their own accord.

Keron

posthumecaver wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

<snip>

Ok, to express more clearly, I am not against playing VR chars, as I said at the beginning I am doing my daily undaunted's and park that char, because I can only take that much of boredom for shouting 1hr for LFG and clearing a dungeon in 2hrs with PUGs by doing the same dungeons, same skill, same rotations for million times.

Because of the CP and if you want to progress in it, you can't just park a VR char and do something else with low alts because you will not get anything.

Last 2 days I am only playing my DK low alt, I didn't get any XP for my VR CP, what is bothering me, I always feeling the urge to play the VR char but knowing too well that I will enjoy more the playing the low alt.

Thanks for the elaboration, now it makes more sense.

In this case, I can only repeat a (maybe not so) wise word that was mentioned by others on other occasions: I do not understand this drive to be at the top end of CP level. After 90 and the 12% crit, the benefits are - while still strong and very convenient - not that decisive anymore.

Of course there is a difference between 90 CP and 200 CP. I do not want to go into that discussion again, and I hope it is taken that way and will not derail this topic. Of course there are different perceptions on the validity of this issue. But if you don't want to power grind CP, what stops you from just not doing it and enjoying what you did before - trials, pvp, veteran group dungeons, roleplay, etc?

Just take those CP as they come.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Keron wrote: »

If anything, even the use/application of CPs should be restricted or even prevented for chars below max level (which for this purpose is 50 respectively VR1).

That I agree with, I was actually surprised when one day me new level 4 found he could spend CPs, however the fact that below 50 you don't earn them does nothing deal with something that will become more and more crippling as time goes by .. the huge CP gap between a player with a brand new VR1 and the players with VR14s (or whatever they rise to over time) and CPs coming out of their ...

driosketch

12 non vet delves and a couple public dungeons, full achievement clears plus any associated quests, is approximately 1 CP while enlightened. I know this because I grinded my charcter to vet to unlock the champion system, and am now going back through content I skipped. I am currently at permanent 12 days enlightenment even though I play everyday because I decided to grind my other two content alts up to vet as well.

The rate I go through the stories, it will be another year before I got to vet otherwise, which would mean a larger gap. It would make things easier on me and new players if the non vet characters could earn CP as they went, they can use the points anyways, but that's not going to stop using a work around.

eliisra

It's awfully strange that you can use CP on a low level character but not gain it.

They balanced VR levels when CP came out, reducing attributes and so on, to prevent god-mode. But clearly didn't do the same thing for the lowbies. Running around with a level 10 boosted with 110+ CP is so unbalanced. Specially since there's no softcaps controlling the strength of lowbie chars any more. I was basically 2 shooting major quest bosses on my alt, when I checked it out.

About CP gain on lowbie chars, I used to support it, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe in the future. Basically because the game has loads of solid grind spots to abuse level 35-50. Exp gain towards CP is actually better and faster there than playing your VR14 lol.

Imagine if those spots where infested by CP grinders(on top of level grinders)? The servers would explode, new players would be scared of, even harder to complete quests and so on.

posthumecaver

Keron wrote: »

posthumecaver wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

<snip>

Ok, to express more clearly, I am not against playing VR chars, as I said at the beginning I am doing my daily undaunted's and park that char, because I can only take that much of boredom for shouting 1hr for LFG and clearing a dungeon in 2hrs with PUGs by doing the same dungeons, same skill, same rotations for million times.

Because of the CP and if you want to progress in it, you can't just park a VR char and do something else with low alts because you will not get anything.

Last 2 days I am only playing my DK low alt, I didn't get any XP for my VR CP, what is bothering me, I always feeling the urge to play the VR char but knowing too well that I will enjoy more the playing the low alt.

Thanks for the elaboration, now it makes more sense.

In this case, I can only repeat a (maybe not so) wise word that was mentioned by others on other occasions: I do not understand this drive to be at the top end of CP level. After 90 and the 12% crit, the benefits are - while still strong and very convenient - not that decisive anymore.

Of course there is a difference between 90 CP and 200 CP. I do not want to go into that discussion again, and I hope it is taken that way and will not derail this topic. Of course there are different perceptions on the validity of this issue. But if you don't want to power grind CP, what stops you from just not doing it and enjoying what you did before - trials, pvp, veteran group dungeons, roleplay, etc?

Just take those CP as they come.

I do not feel any urge to be top end, actually you pointed the point that I want to reach.

Before 1.6 there is a sorc build that I really like with %60 crit at one day from 1.5 to 1.6 my crit rate gone down to %60 to %32, I only want to get that 90 CP and %12 crit passive and never hear anything about CP system anymore.

NewBlacksmurf

posthumecaver wrote: »

Hi guys,

I am sure most of you wants the same thing.

I think if you have an one single VR character, if you are gaining XP with with your non VR alt that XP should count for earning CPs.

For me the game with VR chars little bit dull, I always enjoy learning new classes/skills because think about it, what can u do with your VR char, personally I do the daily undaunted quests (and I am not in a trial quild) park my VR char and go playing low level alts, learning new class/skills are much more fun than, doing the same rotation for million times in a maxed out char.

I see that they already have the idea that CP point you get are already available for low level alts but I think it should be completely other way around. The XP you earn should count to CP progression of your veteran char.

Otherwise what I really want it to play my alt, learn new classes/skills but I am forced to play my Vet char.

I disagree. I feel that the alt should be level 50 before any exp counts towards champion levels.
If you've not reached level 50 then in most cases that character is not a champion of the faction.