Future Potential Thornblade Campaign scoring change

technohic

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Just to recap after a weekend; if the scoring changes in Thorn meant to try to address the lag by encouraging different strategies; I don't think it is going to work.

I was in a group last night where we ran into a large group of EP. There were 16 of us and I would estimate at least a full raid of EP in the initial fight; so yes there were large numbers clustered together to an extent and we did lag. But then we went away from the large group that was in DC territory, being outnumbered and hit a keep deep in EP territory knowing the large group was cut of from being able to port but maybe draw them back. We burst the keep quickly and entered the keep to face all of 1 EP and we were lagged and unable to hit the guy for quite a while (and subsequently accused of lagging on purpose ourselves).

So long story short; we left the large fight but still felt the lag. Scouts back in DC territory where the large group of EP were said they were still going at it and lagging like crazy. So it leads me to believe that even though the large battles were nearly on the other side of the map; we felt it where we were at. So I don't think spreading out is going to help anything so long as one side has enough for a full raid and maybe even 2.

Alternatively; I noticed in these large fights taking place when the lag starts, the screen is constantly shaking as I found that even though abilities get stopped from hitting or even consuming resources, I can still spam things to where their animations still go. Meteor being the most visually obvious one with the screen shake. I think not accusing people; but rather when you get in a position to where you are trying to get off an abilitiy, it leads you to spam it which makes the situation even worse. Maybe Meteors dramatic ground shake and launch noise could be disabled in Cyrodiil? And other abilities as well toned down to not be so resource intensive?


Just some thoughts.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Perhaps the idea of making these keeps more like guild houses and giving them a lot more meaning would encourage people to spread out so that they have an incentive to defend their keep.

BigA

Excellent posts! Thank you ZOS for fresh ideas and sharing them with us.

Sorry if I missed it above, but to expand upon resetting campaigns - why can't the campaigns always reset after a patch? This would prevent the late-night players from dominating the map just prior to the patch and raking in big numbers during the time the servers are down.

With respect to enhancing the motivation to focus on taking resources - bravo! As a small DC guild, we have found covertly taking resources has a huge impact upon the zerg tactics, hence improves the lag issue by spreading teams more across the map. Since one way to break the transitus lines is to simultaneously take all three resources, this forces back-capping by the zerging aggressors in order to rapidly deploy to the Bleakers/Chalman/Glade lagfest when respawning. These behind-the-lines tactics will improve the lag issues significantly by stringing-out forces, allow for open field (most often lagless) battles where zergs can be more easily mitigated, and bring fun back into Thorn for those who practice them.

To revisit the most frustrating and unforgiving issue in Thorn, as mentioned more than once in this thread - last night the purposeful server crashing by EP guild(s) at Glade was sickening to watch and experience. Immediately afterward a huge number of DC logged totally disgusted and angry. ZOS - were you there? Did you see and experience it for yourselves as tactical observers? If not - why?

Thanks again for communicating that you are working on this issue and considering meaningful changes.

Sacadon

I'm behind and still reading all the posts so this is likely duplicative, but wanted to get an initial thought out.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, the biggest form of control/motivator you have over us and therefore nobs to turn and tweak is how much AP we earn (2nd to that are opportunities to fight). If you don't leverage this to motivate us in ways that both retain us and address the performance, my concern is that the plan will fall very short. Yes, many care about the score, but it's the currency that lands in their pocket every day that drives them so much more. So my initial thoughts are to at least adjust the AP in conjunction with the point allocation to give us more to do and spread us out. To be clear, this would be in addition to the adjustments that have been long overdue for Cyrodiil not in replacement of them.

gw2only1b14_ESO

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Hello, Its interesting Idea and sure why not put the points on the keeps (shouldn't we fight to hold our turf?) But you still will have the cry of night cap day cap or whatever they wish to QQ over due to population size. But is that really the whole issue?
I actually returned to PVP on Thornblade over the weekend 1st time since December 28th actually and was surprised at how laggy It still was and how my skills Toppling charge for one was bugged and worked fine on the other servers Chiillrend, Haderus and in PvE So can we just pull the plug on this server. can we look at servers on 12hrs on and off 12hrs for daily fixes/maintenance? if where going to re work points lets try these fixes as well?.
Shifting points around is nice thought but feel more could be done. Sadly didn't miss Thorn at all as the other 3 above servers haven't had any issues for me over last 2 months

*spelling

ZOS_BrianWheeler

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

Davadin

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

Good stuff.

Also, decimating people with sieges are bloody brilliant. Don't let the haters tell you otherwise. They simply need to look at the ground indicators more often and stop huddling.

AbraXuSeXile

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

May i remind you this is a pvp game, Siege weapons are not PvP.

You could of just made groups 12 man max, Then different leader's will get different objectives if they are organised groups.

Kragorn

Davadin wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

Good stuff.

Also, decimating people with sieges are bloody brilliant.

I don't think decimation means what you think it does, a 10% reduction isn't huge.

WebBull

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

I can't wait to get home tonight and try this out on the EP lagsploiters (that's assuming we can even get siege down).

Davadin

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

May i remind you this is a pvp game, Siege weapons are not PvP.

You could of just made groups 12 man max, Then different leader's will get different objectives if they are organised groups.

You are incorrect, sir.

This is not a PvP game.

This is an AvA game.

And siege weapons should feel at home.

Davadin

Kragorn wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

Good stuff.

Also, decimating people with sieges are bloody brilliant.

I don't think decimation means what you think it does, a 10% reduction isn't huge.

if a siege can one-shot people, then by Akatosh, one strike to the center of a zerg is MORE than 10% reduction of the people, buddy.

WebBull

If you want resources to be worth more, move the flags into the towers and make the tower walls about half the strength of a keep wall. They will basically be mini keeps. This also plays into the strong siege damage in todays patch.

Enodoc

WebBull wrote: »

If you want resources to be worth more, move the flags into the towers and make the tower walls about half the strength of a keep wall. They will basically be mini keeps. This also plays into the strong siege damage in todays patch.

Having the flag in the tower would make resource capture much more interesting, and also make the towers worthwhile. Nice idea

supernico

How can you even consider making Keeps worth more than Scrolls or even equally?

If anything it should be
Scrolls 3
Keeps and Outposts 2
Resources 1

KeplerMG

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

So far, the changes to siege have made the zerg even stronger. The outnumbered forces become MORE outnumbered FASTER than before, due to people more frequently leaving Cyrodiil out of frustration. The lag has not decreased. Imagine being outnumbered, outlagged, and outsieged? ESO Alliance war has become completely miserable and the fun factor has gone to zero. I spend more time searching for good news on this forum than I do actually playing the game. The thing that stops me from just dropping the game is that I know it cant keep getting worse. Can it? It has to start getting better at some point... right?

P.S. Singling out one server for scoring changes is just one more sloppy bandage placed on top of other sloppy bandages that have gone rancid.

Sphinx2318

@ZOS_BrianWheeler ,

Something to keep in mind, I have heard many players from major Thornblade PVP guilds say that they will abandon Thorn for the next campaign cycle (entire guild migrations to other PVP servers). Not sure if this might change your thinking in terms of what campaign you select for the experimentation. I just figured I'd throw it out there though.

ZOS_BrianWheeler

As an update, we are not going to be doing this change the coming patch cycle. We're still figuring if this is something we'll end up doing later on or not, but for now, the opinions and feedback in this thread have helped shape the decision to not do this for now. We are still looking at other options to improve performance before adjusting scoring. If those options don't pan out, scoring adjustments could still occur.

So Thornblade...carry on.

Lesspa

WE HAVE THE POWER!

Sotha_Sil

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are still looking at other options to improve performance before adjusting scoring.

Great because scoring won't have any impact on performance as it won't affect players' behavior for the reasons I stated above. I'm glad to hear you are working on other ideas.

Makkir

Huntler wrote: »

No it shouldn't, increasing AP gain from PvEing in a PvP zone is exactly the wrong direction to go when trying to get people to spread out. You'll turn Cyrodiil into a flip fest where people want/allow the opposing faction to take things. It will kill PvP faster than possibly any other decision, its happened many times in many other games.

Huntler is right. Did you play SWG? Remember when they allowed players not flagged for PvP to be able to attack PvP Base Turrets? Other players couldn't touch them and just watched them pew pew their base turrets all day long.

BIG mistake

Davadin

Makkir wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

No it shouldn't, increasing AP gain from PvEing in a PvP zone is exactly the wrong direction to go when trying to get people to spread out. You'll turn Cyrodiil into a flip fest where people want/allow the opposing faction to take things. It will kill PvP faster than possibly any other decision, its happened many times in many other games.

Huntler is right. Did you play SWG? Remember when they allowed players not flagged for PvP to be able to attack PvP Base Turrets? Other players couldn't touch them and just watched them pew pew their base turrets all day long.

BIG mistake

SWG (pre-NGE)'s PvP was DA BOMB.

i love it.


LOVED IT.


GODDAMNIT SONY.



/cries_in_corner.

Elderskrye

Zhoyzu wrote: »

This is interesting.

On another note. It would make sense to increase the Keeps/castle/fort alliance point ticks out so that the radius encompasses the resources so people dont feel like they werent as important or the role (of taking a resource) is too insignificant to be worth the time. This might aide in the spreading of people as well. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Yes. everyone gets resource/keep points when keep flips. Effect immediate and non-linear. Recovering resource aids defense. XP/AP for player kills increases with radius from keep. Defense is not complete until resources are recovered. Either resources count toward 50% burst or notice is delayed to allow keep assault before defense is "magically" buffed. Oh. You already thought of all this. Can't be done. Oh, well.

Last night my V2 sorc held off 3 V12 somethings for about 10 minutes during a keep assault. Similar to 2 weeks ago when I laughed at the poor NB who kept hitting me to no avail. Comical; but not at all fun. I'd prefer to die fairly; but not all players share my philosophy. Reduce the radius of all AOE until you can buy some faster hardware?

Elderskrye

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

May i remind you this is a pvp game, Siege weapons are not PvP.

I thought it was AvA.

Elderskrye

Thank You for the open communication.

KeplerMG

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

As an update, we are not going to be doing this change the coming patch cycle. We're still figuring if this is something we'll end up doing later on or not, but for now, the opinions and feedback in this thread have helped shape the decision to not do this for now. We are still looking at other options to improve performance before adjusting scoring. If those options don't pan out, scoring adjustments could still occur.

So Thornblade...carry on.

I don't think it will carry on. We are trying to escape from the highly mentioned unmentionable lagsploiting guild that is ruining our fun, because that is the only way we can think of getting relief. We've seen large scale tug-of-war battles on other servers that were extremely fun, and although there was lag at times, it was playable lag, not the complete lock-down lag we see on Thornblade that feels like the server is going to crash. Sometimes I wish it would just crash and roll back. That would teach them.

Jauriel

KeplerMG wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The siege changes going in today may change some of this actually as well. If more people can take more things with less people via using Siege weapons, that too could have the effect desired of spreading people out.

So far, the changes to siege have made the zerg even stronger. The outnumbered forces become MORE outnumbered FASTER than before, due to people more frequently leaving Cyrodiil out of frustration. The lag has not decreased. Imagine being outnumbered, outlagged, and outsieged? ESO Alliance war has become completely miserable and the fun factor has gone to zero. I spend more time searching for good news on this forum than I do actually playing the game. The thing that stops me from just dropping the game is that I know it cant keep getting worse. Can it? It has to start getting better at some point... right?

P.S. Singling out one server for scoring changes is just one more sloppy bandage placed on top of other sloppy bandages that have gone rancid.

Yes. All of this.

prose08b14a_ESO

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

As an update, we are not going to be doing this change the coming patch cycle. We're still figuring if this is something we'll end up doing later on or not, but for now, the opinions and feedback in this thread have helped shape the decision to not do this for now. We are still looking at other options to improve performance before adjusting scoring. If those options don't pan out, scoring adjustments could still occur.

So Thornblade...carry on.

*puts on tinfoil hat*

So what you're saying is that when DC is in the lead on Thornblade you want to change the way scoring is done, but as soon as the siege change gives the EP defenders the edge while they lag through the DC/AD defenses you change your mind?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go consult my alien-rectum-implant's fortune-telling software to see if every ZOS Dev is in bed with an already mentioned unmentionable guild. The fact that they are still allowed to continue to drive potential customers away by making the competitive server of Thornblade (because let's face it, Chillrend is a joke) impossible to have fun on baffles me, but I suppose my butthole's magic 8-ball will give me an answer... someday.

Roechacca

I'm so happy with the changes , looking forward to more .

Jauriel

prose08b14a_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

As an update, we are not going to be doing this change the coming patch cycle. We're still figuring if this is something we'll end up doing later on or not, but for now, the opinions and feedback in this thread have helped shape the decision to not do this for now. We are still looking at other options to improve performance before adjusting scoring. If those options don't pan out, scoring adjustments could still occur.

So Thornblade...carry on.

*puts on tinfoil hat*

So what you're saying is that when DC is in the lead on Thornblade you want to change the way scoring is done, but as soon as the siege change gives the EP defenders the edge while they lag through the DC/AD defenses you change your mind?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go consult my alien-rectum-implant's fortune-telling software to see if every ZOS Dev is in bed with an already mentioned unmentionable guild. The fact that they are still allowed to continue to drive potential customers away by making the competitive server of Thornblade (because let's face it, Chillrend is a joke) impossible to have fun on baffles me, but I suppose my butthole's magic 8-ball will give me an answer... someday.

The "Thornblade ...carry on" got me. It's like "we know you're frustrated and getting angrier by the day. But hey! Carry on."

Since the many complaints and the proof that has been provided seems to go totally ignored it is almost time to wonder if certain guilds are made of relatives or friends of the devs. Not really a stretch.