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Changes to XP Gains for Trials

ZOS_PaulSage
ZOS_PaulSage
✭✭✭✭
As many of you may be aware, Brian Wheeler recently posted an update about XP gains in Cyrodiil, which you can read here. We are also making changes to XP gains in Trials, which include the following:
  • We are fixing an issue where some members of the Trial group would not receive full credit for kills. This was causing group members to get different amounts of XP from encounters.
  • We are increasing the overall amount of XP in Trials by a multiplier greater than 10. We’re still nailing down the exact number.
Cyrodiil and Trials represented the biggest areas where we wanted to make changes for XP gains, but we will be evaluating other areas of the game for XP changes needed as well (this includes dungeons). Our current plan is that the Trials and Cyrodiil XP changes will happen in our next incremental patch.
Staff Post
  • Huntler
    Huntler
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is dragonstar arena considered a trial? (I imagine so, but just making sure given the size difference as there are "trial leaderboards" for it). Or is it considered a dungeon?
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • Fat_Cat45
    Fat_Cat45
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huntler wrote: »
    Is dragonstar arena considered a trial? (I imagine so, but just making sure given the size difference as there are "trial leaderboards" for it). Or is it considered a dungeon?

    Dragonstar is a good source of xp as it is. Normal mob kills are 455 xp each. So with enlightenment that's almost 2k per kill, which is also about 1 champion point per 4 waves. (This xp is from Veteran, I don't know what normal dsa is)
  • Rhazmuz
    Rhazmuz
    ✭✭✭
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?
    Rhazmuz - Nord DK tank
    PS4 - EU
  • ZOS_GinaBruno
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Community Manager
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.
    Gina Bruno
    Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | Facebook | Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Rhazmuz
    Rhazmuz
    ✭✭✭
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.

    Deary me, I need my eyes checked... Cheers Gina!
    Rhazmuz - Nord DK tank
    PS4 - EU
  • Lifsteinn
    Lifsteinn
    ✭✭✭
    A daily Dungeon would also be a nice way to get increased XP.
  • Huntler
    Huntler
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Hey Gina, could you clarify whether in Paul's post he considers dragonstar arena as a trial? Just so that the message is clear :). Seems like there might be some confusion on what is considered a trial and DSA is kind of in its own gray area for some (although since it has a leaderboard + scoring design that seems like a trial to me).
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • DHale
    DHale
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know this sound kind of strange and since I pvp a lot I think you should get XP for PVP actions like sieging walls (not a lot mind you) not just taking the keeps just like repairing the walls. Also a little when you craft something or decon something or 10 xp to pick a flower for example. I am not saying a lot but there are ppl who like to farm mats and harvest nodes and they should still be able to progress their toon in a limited but noticeable way. This allows you to progress without AP farming groups it provided an incentive to take keeps and resources.

    I also think that the Alliance Rank should be Account wide and therefore be able to put skill points into Assault and Support on all toons once you leveled up one toon to 10. Similar to crafting I can use crafted armor and weapons for all my toons that I made from maxed crafter on my one toon I have leveled to 50.

    I feel like I have to farm AP and grind XP as I am not able to get them consistently or readily. I spent 2 hours sneaking around and stealing I got no xp and very little money. There are so many bananas to steal. I may PVP for 5 hours and be in twenty battles or two all depends on a number of variables.
    Most importantly, I wished you would expand the kill enemy player quest to double what it is now. I can finish that in an hour one day and never finish another. Make it double the number of times you can repeat the quest than it is currently limited too.

    Lastly, why not some XP, AP and/or Gold for achievements. I got the five under five achievement last night I have no idea what it is other than it is pvp related but if it came with gold, AP or XP I sure would know and sought out the achievement earlier. For me I do not want to use a Kura and a Kuda and some aspect rune to make a monumental glyph for the possibility I get 5 kuta unless there is some incentive as I am already a maxed enchanter. It would be stupid of rme to do writs on that toon when I will put more into making than I will get back. Thos are my thoughts!
    Sorcerna, proud beta sorc.
    RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases.
    Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Beacuse a 6 k shield is f ing useless.
    Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew.
    13 AD 2 DC. CP 1200 plus 15 level 50 toons.
    NA, PC, Vivec.
    #SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.
  • ZOS_GinaBruno
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Community Manager
    Huntler wrote: »
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Hey Gina, could you clarify whether in Paul's post he considers dragonstar arena as a trial? Just so that the message is clear :). Seems like there might be some confusion on what is considered a trial and DSA is kind of in its own gray area for some (although since it has a leaderboard + scoring design that seems like a trial to me).

    No, these XP changes do not include Dragonstar Arena.
    Gina Bruno
    Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | Facebook | Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Huntler
    Huntler
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huntler wrote: »
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Hey Gina, could you clarify whether in Paul's post he considers dragonstar arena as a trial? Just so that the message is clear :). Seems like there might be some confusion on what is considered a trial and DSA is kind of in its own gray area for some (although since it has a leaderboard + scoring design that seems like a trial to me).

    No, these XP changes do not include Dragonstar Arena.

    Thank you for the clarification, its a shame given not all guilds like or want to grind out 12 man trials, but at least we have the information :). Hope you guys go through with dungeon exp improvements as well, consistently getting 12 mans together is not viable to a decent population of the game and this will lock them out of the extra exp gain while doing undaunted daily/dungeons is peanuts.
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • xherics
    xherics
    ✭✭✭
    Huntler wrote: »
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Hey Gina, could you clarify whether in Paul's post he considers dragonstar arena as a trial? Just so that the message is clear :). Seems like there might be some confusion on what is considered a trial and DSA is kind of in its own gray area for some (although since it has a leaderboard + scoring design that seems like a trial to me).

    No, these XP changes do not include Dragonstar Arena.

    I hoped, that XP gain is also for Arena. My opinion is, that one full vet arena run should give 1 full CP, so 400k XP. It is really hard content in comparison with other Trials or delves, because it is for 4 people only, and these 4 people need to be a pro gamers to be able to do arena. A newbie player without experience of the game mechanics and his character/class/skills is not able to do arena.
    Guild: HODOR - EU - Ebonheart Pact
    Char: Leliana fxn (Sorc) and Nuria fxn (DK)
    World first Sanctum Ophidia Time trial achievement unlock with my Sorcerer (v1.5.7)
    World second Sanctum Ophidia Hard Mode achievement unlock with my Sorcerer (v1.5.8)
    Pre-nerf Dragonstar Arena Hard Mode Conqueror with my Sorcerer

    "Sorcerer is for me a definition of the highest level of magician, what does not mean pets, but pure magic, pure spells.
    Pure magic from the heart, through the blood, to the last hairbreadth...
    Sorcerer means the highest magic killer with pure magic, not the weakest grandmamma's pet farm."

    11.02.2015 - Magicka Sorcerer RIP - What? Sorcerer and not using spells/magicka?
    19.02.2015 - Sorcerers, we have a new hope!
  • Morvul
    Morvul
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    from my understanding, dragonstar arena gives decent XP already.
    Now, I do not know the exact numbers, so maybe scaling the XP there by a factor of 2 or 3 might be a good idea, but certainly not 10+ as for trials
  • xherics
    xherics
    ✭✭✭
    In comparison with the actual XP give for veteran DSA, the multiplier should be 2x - atm it is 180-200k approx for one full run, depends, how many deaths the run have.
    Guild: HODOR - EU - Ebonheart Pact
    Char: Leliana fxn (Sorc) and Nuria fxn (DK)
    World first Sanctum Ophidia Time trial achievement unlock with my Sorcerer (v1.5.7)
    World second Sanctum Ophidia Hard Mode achievement unlock with my Sorcerer (v1.5.8)
    Pre-nerf Dragonstar Arena Hard Mode Conqueror with my Sorcerer

    "Sorcerer is for me a definition of the highest level of magician, what does not mean pets, but pure magic, pure spells.
    Pure magic from the heart, through the blood, to the last hairbreadth...
    Sorcerer means the highest magic killer with pure magic, not the weakest grandmamma's pet farm."

    11.02.2015 - Magicka Sorcerer RIP - What? Sorcerer and not using spells/magicka?
    19.02.2015 - Sorcerers, we have a new hope!
  • Daveheart
    Daveheart
    ✭✭✭✭
    A x10 increase on DSA would be ridiculous, but putting it back to where it was (doubling the current xp I think?) would be nice.
    Daggerfall Covenant (PC-NA)

    The Order of Mundus | Nightfighters
  • amasuriel
    amasuriel
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I really hope that 4 man dungeons also get an xp boost soon. I'm glad trials are getting a big xp buff, they should, but it would be great to be able to earn decent XP for something that can be accomplished in less than 2 hours.

    The difference between me playing at all on the weekdays, vs only on weekends (and having more chance of growing disinterested because I only play once a week), is having something I can do in an hour or 2 after dinner. The pledges / helm farming is perfect for this if it gave okay XP.

    Anyway, good news on the trial and PvP increases. If 4 man dungeons are increased as well the situation will be much improved.
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hello @ZOS_PaulSage, @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom,

    What is being done about the PVE Lag that people are experiencing on a DAILY basis? Ever since 1.6 was rolled over we are getting lag in area's there never was. I'm NOT talking about heavily populated areas. In four person groups running dungeons we are experiencing spell lag from 1 second to 1 MINUTE. That's an entire minute from when we cast a spell that the game reacts to it. When this happens to EVERY person in the group at the exact same time it is a SERVER side issue and not individual latency. This is a huge issue and needs to be resolved as soon as possible. There are daily posts about this that none have had a response to. Keep the tiger, take all my crowns, you can even take all my gold but please do anything you can to resolve this issue. What good are any of these items anyway when you cannot complete a single dungeon without issues.

    Thank you all for your time.
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Petros
    Petros
    ✭✭✭
    @ZOS_PaulSage @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

    You guys could also just add in another quest or make the current quest in the trials reward of 100k xp, and make it a daily quest and the coffers give 200k xp.

    If you guys just increase the trash/boss xp, then I can see a 6 man team running in to get double the xp intended from a 12 man.

    The quest would be a better fit.
    Edited by Petros on March 20, 2015 8:07PM
    "Our light will bring the dawning of a new hope!" ~ Petros Fordring -The Order of Mundus
    - VR16 Imperial Dragonknight (DC -NA) & The One Handed Tank
  • Petros
    Petros
    ✭✭✭
    xherics wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Hey Gina, could you clarify whether in Paul's post he considers dragonstar arena as a trial? Just so that the message is clear :). Seems like there might be some confusion on what is considered a trial and DSA is kind of in its own gray area for some (although since it has a leaderboard + scoring design that seems like a trial to me).

    No, these XP changes do not include Dragonstar Arena.

    I hoped, that XP gain is also for Arena. My opinion is, that one full vet arena run should give 1 full CP, so 400k XP. It is really hard content in comparison with other Trials or delves, because it is for 4 people only, and these 4 people need to be a pro gamers to be able to do arena. A newbie player without experience of the game mechanics and his character/class/skills is not able to do arena.

    Heh....NO...players can run Vet DSA a little over an hour, some even an hour flat. You're looking at some people on a given day, they could make 10-14 CPs a day!

    Just no, no no no.

    And let's just say, they do 10 runs in a day for a week, they would get 70 + the enlightenment (7). So you're looking at 77 CPs a week. No no...just....no....





    ...




    no
    Edited by Petros on March 20, 2015 8:12PM
    "Our light will bring the dawning of a new hope!" ~ Petros Fordring -The Order of Mundus
    - VR16 Imperial Dragonknight (DC -NA) & The One Handed Tank
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you @ZOS_PaulSage for following Brian's lead and addressing XP disparity among various playstyles in ESO. Lets hope this ball continues to roll and other Devs also jump in and boost XP in other playstyles like Legerdemain, Crafting, Dungeons, Farming, Roleplaying, etc.
    Shadow is where the truth lies.
    Legerdemain - The path to Thievery
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    @ZOS_PaulSage
    Hey you should also address trial itemization while you are at it. As it stands, most trials gear doesn't make the cut for any kind of decent build in 1.6. The stat changes that you made in 1.6, makes trials gear extremely undesirable. Either change the current sets or sprinkle in a few new trials sets.
    Edited by timidobserver on March 20, 2015 11:42PM
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • xherics
    xherics
    ✭✭✭
    xherics wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Rhazmuz wrote: »
    What about vet dungeons? I thought they were getting buffed too, xp wise? Or are they deemed ok?

    As Paul mentioned, we are still evaluating other areas that may need XP adjustments, including dungeons.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Hey Gina, could you clarify whether in Paul's post he considers dragonstar arena as a trial? Just so that the message is clear :). Seems like there might be some confusion on what is considered a trial and DSA is kind of in its own gray area for some (although since it has a leaderboard + scoring design that seems like a trial to me).

    No, these XP changes do not include Dragonstar Arena.

    I hoped, that XP gain is also for Arena. My opinion is, that one full vet arena run should give 1 full CP, so 400k XP. It is really hard content in comparison with other Trials or delves, because it is for 4 people only, and these 4 people need to be a pro gamers to be able to do arena. A newbie player without experience of the game mechanics and his character/class/skills is not able to do arena.

    Heh....NO...players can run Vet DSA a little over an hour, some even an hour flat. You're looking at some people on a given day, they could make 10-14 CPs a day!

    Just no, no no no.

    And let's just say, they do 10 runs in a day for a week, they would get 70 + the enlightenment (7). So you're looking at 77 CPs a week. No no...just....no....





    ...




    no

    Lets softcap the daily CP to 5 and the grinding people, who have no life, no family and no work will not grind like an idiots :)
    And the people who can not play 16/24 will also happy.

    Guild: HODOR - EU - Ebonheart Pact
    Char: Leliana fxn (Sorc) and Nuria fxn (DK)
    World first Sanctum Ophidia Time trial achievement unlock with my Sorcerer (v1.5.7)
    World second Sanctum Ophidia Hard Mode achievement unlock with my Sorcerer (v1.5.8)
    Pre-nerf Dragonstar Arena Hard Mode Conqueror with my Sorcerer

    "Sorcerer is for me a definition of the highest level of magician, what does not mean pets, but pure magic, pure spells.
    Pure magic from the heart, through the blood, to the last hairbreadth...
    Sorcerer means the highest magic killer with pure magic, not the weakest grandmamma's pet farm."

    11.02.2015 - Magicka Sorcerer RIP - What? Sorcerer and not using spells/magicka?
    19.02.2015 - Sorcerers, we have a new hope!
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    xherics wrote: »
    Lets softcap the daily CP to 5 and the grinding people, who have no life, no family and no work will not grind like an idiots :)
    And the people who can not play 16/24 will also happy.
    Just because someone is able to play many hours/day doesn't mean they're an idiot. Maybe that person is disabled and ESO is literally the only thing they CAN do, did you ever think about that? I'm sorry you feel inadequate against Players who Grind all day long but ZoS doesn't need to put in a daily CP cap just to make you feel better about yourself.
    Shadow is where the truth lies.
    Legerdemain - The path to Thievery
  • killabunny1234b16_ESO
    Best change I've seen in a long time.. I am already falling behind on the CP race as I don't want to grind the same delves for hours a day.
    /hug from lots of end game players :smile:
  • Zheg
    Zheg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    @ZOS_PaulSage please also take a look at world boss and dolmen completion xp, as the nerfs there are VERY heavy handed and don't serve a purpose. You no longer get dolmen completion xp, and it used to be decent xp for the one-time completion. You can't farm this multiple times, so I see no reason why it should be removed/nerfed - it's a one time completion.

    Similarly, world boss completion xp is now paltry in the silver and gold alliance zones (and craglorn... but you guys seem to have it out for craglorn so I wont harp in this). Completing all of the world bosses and dolmens in a silver or gold alliance area used to give you about 1.5 veteran levels, and now it gives < 0.2 veteran levels. We're talking about a factor of 1/10 here... is this intentional on your part, or just an oversight when we switched to the 1 mil per vet level system? If it's intentional, you do realize that the only way to adequately level is to do EVERY quest in each silver/gold zone right?

    Furthermore, I ran through all of the lower and upper craglorn main quests on my v12 dk, in addition to some side quests, almost all of the delves, and the occasional vet dungeon. He's still v12. Is craglorn still supposed to be able to take you from v10 to v14? Cuz it don't any more :)

    Please don't stop at trials, xp across the board is kind of a mess, and the new and returning players are going to run into this vet xp grind wall VERY soon.
    Edited by Zheg on March 22, 2015 5:56AM
    ==Vehemence raid lead== and a surviving member of ==Mostly Harmless==

    V16 Breton Temp - Zig Zheg
    V16 Khajiit Sorc - Zheg
    V16 Dark Elf DK - Zhegg
    V16 Imperial NB - Zegai
    V12 High Elf NB - Zhig
  • Takhistis
    Takhistis
    ✭✭✭
    As a new player I'm really happy to see this as every endgamer I've been talking to lately was just thrash talking Post 50 progress, saying it wasn't worth the amount of time invested
    and suddenly, no kidding, the sun has started shining where I live EXACTLY AS I READ THIS THREAD
    It must be a sign for me to log on asap when servers r back on and start leveling to 50!!!
    Edited by Takhistis on March 23, 2015 2:11PM
    NA-DC-NB VR1 Ilythrian
    Proud member of Guild Medieval, More Than Fair, The Angry Unicorn Inn
  • maryriv
    maryriv
    ✭✭✭✭
    Why on earth would you not include DA? That makes no sense. ALL Mobs need xp increased. Diminishing returns need to be added to mob types to prevent abuse.

    Why should those of us who play the game as intended suffer because some abuse the grind?
  • oRioNoTime
    oRioNoTime
    ✭✭✭
    maryriv wrote: »
    Why on earth would you not include DA? That makes no sense. ALL Mobs need xp increased. Diminishing returns need to be added to mob types to prevent abuse.

    Why should those of us who play the game as intended suffer because some abuse the grind?

    DSA normal is one of the best spot to farm CP right now, it doesn't need a buff....
    Orio N - Nightblade Caster - DC EU - First Ruler of Auriel's Bow
  • Soulshine
    Soulshine
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    As many of you may be aware, Brian Wheeler recently posted an update about XP gains in Cyrodiil, which you can read here. We are also making changes to XP gains in Trials, which include the following:
    • We are fixing an issue where some members of the Trial group would not receive full credit for kills. This was causing group members to get different amounts of XP from encounters.
    • We are increasing the overall amount of XP in Trials by a multiplier greater than 10. We’re still nailing down the exact number.
    Cyrodiil and Trials represented the biggest areas where we wanted to make changes for XP gains, but we will be evaluating other areas of the game for XP changes needed as well (this includes dungeons). Our current plan is that the Trials and Cyrodiil XP changes will happen in our next incremental patch.

    And as of the moment I write this, that promise has now been officially killed due to the behavior of some players no sooner did the XP change take place.

    I would humbly request that you please take a look at how the instances in your game work in order to stop allowing exploitation, rather than punishing legitiamate players by once again removing the XP possible from their efforts.

    Not all of us make Trial runs in 10 minutes. Many of us like to run those instances with our friends and play the instance as it was intended. We would like to be rewarded for our efforts.

    This repeated and numerous discovery of exploitation of features in the game by some segments of the playerbase is a direct result of insufficient testing of the mechanics at hand. Other games make sure that you cannot enter an instance with less than the number of people required. Many provide the total XP reward only after the completion of all phases and the bosses in question for each. Many provide weekly raid locks, etc. There are ANY NUMBER of things that could be done to improve the way these things work.

    Slapping decent players across the face with an XP nerf due to the behavior other players you allow room for in the first place is not the way to make a game viable. This keeps happening here over and over and over. Please, for the love of Tamriel address this problem with your QA and stop ruining our game experience.
  • Kragorn
    Kragorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Takhistis wrote: »
    As a new player I'm really happy to see this as every endgamer I've been talking to lately was just thrash talking Post 50 progress, saying it wasn't worth the amount of time invested
    and suddenly, no kidding, the sun has started shining where I live EXACTLY AS I READ THIS THREAD
    It must be a sign for me to log on asap when servers r back on and start leveling to 50!!!
    Frankly as a new player don't expect to see VR14 before ZOS remove the VR system in God knows how many months time. Post VR10 it's nigh on impossible to get the 4M XP needed for VR14.

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