Here's a neat idea.

Regoras

Disable "Harm Innocents" by default so people don't get a bounty right out of the gate for accidentally double clicking and firing a damn fire ball into a damn guard.

Xjcon

I did this. I payed my fine twice till I decided to check that option. Lol

Regoras

Coming back from release. Didn't even know it was an option or that I could even hurt random NPCs.

WhiskeyJac

you can with the new justice system......it is nice

Kragorn

This option certainly should be 'on' by default but even more ITS' EXISTENCE SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN!

I haven't read anywhere of this setting, only from forum replies did I learn how to do this.

And no, it isn't 'nice' it's a horrible addition to the game, mindless cold-blooded murder simply panders to sociopaths. It's not remotely related to inter-faction wars you're slaughtering your own people, it's pathetic.

Gidorick

I dunno... I think the "learn by doing" aspect of it is kind of interesting. Maybe after your fist "kill" you get a tip saying.

"Hey there! You just killed an innocent civilian. You now have a bounty and your Heat has increased meaning the guards will apprehend you if they get a chance. You can run or you can pay the bounty, the choice is yours!

If you do not with to partake in this aspect of the Justice System you can toggle it off in the Settings Menu.

Good luck!"

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

I dunno... I think the "learn by doing" aspect of it is kind of interesting. Maybe after your fist "kill" you get a tip saying.

"Hey there! You just killed an innocent civilian. You now have a bounty and your Heat has increased meaning the guards will apprehend you if they get a chance. You can run or you can pay the bounty, the choice is yours!

If you do not with to partake in this aspect of the Justice System you can toggle it off in the Settings Menu.

Good luck!"

I like this idea. They should definitely add something that says it can be toggled off. I think with it toggled off by default though, you will end up with people never knowing it exists, so it's better (and more TES-like) to have it on by default.

Roechacca

jpp

It should be done so you can hit once or twice - people might not like it, but it should not be considered immediate fight.

nerevarine1138

Sounds like the system's already working. You hit a civilian, and you learned a valuable lesson about attacking strangers in town.

Regoras

Yea, working as intended... because misfiring the second you leave Cold Harbor with no money resulting in a fine you can't pay ending in every guard wanting to plant an Axe in your face thus forcing you out of town and having to remake your character with no warning or explanation as to why in the hell this was even implemented is why this game never had to drop it's subscription.

nerevarine1138

Regoras wrote: »

Yea, working as intended... because misfiring the second you leave Cold Harbor with no money resulting in a fine you can't pay ending in every guard wanting to plant an Axe in your face thus forcing you out of town and having to remake your character with no warning or explanation as to why in the hell this was even implemented is why this game never had to drop it's subscription.

Well, they made the decision to go B2P well before the Justice System dropped on the live servers. But yes, this is working as intended.

For starters, if you "misfired" the second you left Coldharbour, there wouldn't be anyone around to hit. If you "misfired" when you were in town and saw the white highlight around an NPC, then that would probably be more of an issue. And unless you did it over and over and over again (ignoring all the tooltips that popped up to warn you about the system and your bounty), you would never be able to accrue a high enough bounty that you couldn't pay it right off the bat. Bounties scale to your level.

The solution? Stop randomly spamming spells in town.

I_killed_Vivec

Kragorn wrote: »

And no, it isn't 'nice' it's a horrible addition to the game, mindless cold-blooded murder simply panders to sociopaths. It's not remotely related to inter-faction wars you're slaughtering your own people, it's pathetic.

You say that but I'm EP and I do most of my killing in Auridon...

In fact my prey of choice are the temple acolytes in Vulkhel Guard. I pickpocket them first, then slaughter them... you'd be surprised by some of the dubious items these priests are carrying!

Regoras

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Regoras wrote: »

Yea, working as intended... because misfiring the second you leave Cold Harbor with no money resulting in a fine you can't pay ending in every guard wanting to plant an Axe in your face thus forcing you out of town and having to remake your character with no warning or explanation as to why in the hell this was even implemented is why this game never had to drop it's subscription.

Well, they made the decision to go B2P well before the Justice System dropped on the live servers. But yes, this is working as intended.

For starters, if you "misfired" the second you left Coldharbour, there wouldn't be anyone around to hit. If you "misfired" when you were in town and saw the white highlight around an NPC, then that would probably be more of an issue. And unless you did it over and over and over again (ignoring all the tooltips that popped up to warn you about the system and your bounty), you would never be able to accrue a high enough bounty that you couldn't pay it right off the bat. Bounties scale to your level.

The solution? Stop randomly spamming spells in town.

Actually, I walked out the door after speaking with Dumbledore, leaned over to answer a question from my Wife, leaned back and smack the mouse, fired one shot, and was repeatedly killed as I couldn't pay the fine.

Thanks for playing though.

nerevarine1138

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

And no, it isn't 'nice' it's a horrible addition to the game, mindless cold-blooded murder simply panders to sociopaths. It's not remotely related to inter-faction wars you're slaughtering your own people, it's pathetic.

You say that but I'm EP and I do most of my killing in Auridon...

In fact my prey of choice are the temple acolytes in Vulkhel Guard. I pickpocket them first, then slaughter them... you'd be surprised by some of the dubious items these priests are carrying!

Isn't that the best? And the priests/priestesses always seem to be the ones who want to pick a fight when all I did was rifle through their pockets.

nerevarine1138

Regoras wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Regoras wrote: »

Yea, working as intended... because misfiring the second you leave Cold Harbor with no money resulting in a fine you can't pay ending in every guard wanting to plant an Axe in your face thus forcing you out of town and having to remake your character with no warning or explanation as to why in the hell this was even implemented is why this game never had to drop it's subscription.

Well, they made the decision to go B2P well before the Justice System dropped on the live servers. But yes, this is working as intended.

For starters, if you "misfired" the second you left Coldharbour, there wouldn't be anyone around to hit. If you "misfired" when you were in town and saw the white highlight around an NPC, then that would probably be more of an issue. And unless you did it over and over and over again (ignoring all the tooltips that popped up to warn you about the system and your bounty), you would never be able to accrue a high enough bounty that you couldn't pay it right off the bat. Bounties scale to your level.

The solution? Stop randomly spamming spells in town.

Actually, I walked out the door after speaking with Dumbledore, leaned over to answer a question from my Wife, leaned back and smack the mouse, fired one shot, and was repeatedly killed as I couldn't pay the fine.

Thanks for playing though.

Sounds like an easily surmountable problem. And it sounds like something that wouldn't have happened if you didn't "smack" the mouse.

But how much gold was your bounty for that? Because even at VR14, I rarely see it get to more than a couple hundred gold for a single attack.

Regoras

You're apparently missing the part that when you leave Cold Harbor, you don't have gold. But I can tell from your responses that instead of a logical grace period for people that haven't experienced the Justice System ( Or you know... just setting the default setting to not allow you to damage NPCs ) you're going to find any way to explain it away or rationalize it. That whole fanboyism and "can do no wrong" type thing.

They'll change it eventually I'm sure.

nerevarine1138

Regoras wrote: »

You're apparently missing the part that when you leave Cold Harbor, you don't have gold. But I can tell from your responses that instead of a logical grace period for people that haven't experienced the Justice System ( Or you know... just setting the default setting to not allow you to damage NPCs ) you're going to find any way to explain it away or rationalize it. That whole fanboyism and "can do no wrong" type thing.

They'll change it eventually I'm sure.

I left Coldharbour with some gold (including my quest reward). And my understanding is that they've changed the tutorial level to add a lot more stuff of value there.

I'm sorry that you feel like you should be able to kill innocent bystanders with impunity, but it sounds like you've learned your lesson. Ergo, the teaching mechanics in the game are working just fine.

BlackEar

Kragorn wrote: »

And no, it isn't 'nice' it's a horrible addition to the game, mindless cold-blooded murder simply panders to sociopaths. It's not remotely related to inter-faction wars you're slaughtering your own people, it's pathetic.

Really?

BlackEar

It should be off by default.

BlackEar

It is a bad surprise for new players.

BigM

It should be left like it is, but when you login to game the first time they should have a warning. Of course majority of people don't read and just click ahead. To those they get a BIG LOL with it saying don't you read?

Izzban

I suggest reading a bit about the games you decide to play. I understand some people may want to jump in with all their feet and fly by the seat of their pants. That is YOUR decision to do so. You must accept the consequences for not preparing yourself.

Did you jump in a car and drive off into the sunset the second you turned 16 (assuming you have reached that venerable age and live in the US [where 16 is the legal driving age]) of course you didn't, you learned about cars, traffic laws, and how to drive. Would you send a letter to the state if you didn't know how to drive and got into an accident?

Would you like other examples of things people should prepare themselves for before doing, or do you agree that preparation is necessary for success at a venture? Why would a video game be different and require no preparation on your part? Is it because you are lazy and don't want to do it? That would lead back to my original argument that you CHOSE to not know what you are doing.

I can feel the "entertainment" argument coming. I think some players may view this game as entertainment that they should not have to prepare for. I could equate that to a movie, the byword for entertainment. You go to Redbox, rent a movie and bring it home. After dinner you are ready to watch it, then realize that you don't have a bluray player for the movie. The simple fact of buying and setting up a DVD/bluray player is preparation for that form of entertainment. Why won't you spend time reading about a video game you want to play?

How much hand holding is the company responsible for? I think the actual answer is none. ZoS doesn't owe you a darn thing, they don't have to explain how the game works, and they don't have to tell you how to play. You bought the game and it's your responsibility to learn how to play it. I know it's unfashionable to take responsibility for your actions but if ZoS tried to change their game to accommodate everybody that won't do the simplest of research about their product before buying and trying it, then they will never get anywhere. I suppose you agree with the lady being awarded a million dollars for burning herself with McDonald's coffee because they never told her that coffee was served hot?

The bottom line is thus: YOU need to learn about the game you are playing. The devs can't tell you every little thing, nor should you want them too (how boring). It's your decision to just start playing the game or to google and learn about it before starting. YOU decided that and have to live with your decision.

Regoras

Izzban wrote: »

Why would a video game be different and require no preparation on your part?

Probably because it's a video game.

tallenn

I agree, it should be on by default.

The people interested in playing as an outlaw can easily toggle it off, while the innocent that know nothing about it, aren't punished for not "studying" before playing a game.

yodased

It's an elder scrolls game. Every single elder scrolls game has this. If you didn't know that going into it, you know it now.

GreySix

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

And no, it isn't 'nice' it's a horrible addition to the game, mindless cold-blooded murder simply panders to sociopaths. It's not remotely related to inter-faction wars you're slaughtering your own people, it's pathetic.

You say that but I'm EP and I do most of my killing in Auridon...

In fact my prey of choice are the temple acolytes in Vulkhel Guard. I pickpocket them first, then slaughter them... you'd be surprised by some of the dubious items these priests are carrying!

It's characters like yours that mine would ruthlessly hunt down and annihilate were the Enforcer System to be emplaced.

Regoras

yodased wrote: »

It's an elder scrolls game. Every single elder scrolls game has this. If you didn't know that going into it, you know it now.

Neat. Wasn't like that at release. Whiiiich is kinda my point. Not really sure why some of you are getting all uppity about it. The Justice system isn't bad, it's pretty cool... but sit in Daggerfall for an hour at night and watch how many people are asking "wtf?" as they're getting beaten to death by guards.

Or you know... they can continue to listen to everyone who is basically saying "IT AM FINE CUZ I R KNEW IT LIKE DAT HUR! AM HERDCORE PLAYERZ LULZ NEWB!"... it's obviously been working well up to this point.

GreySix

Regoras wrote: »

[quote=" The Justice system isn't bad, it's pretty cool... but sit in Daggerfall for an hour at night and watch how many people are asking "wtf?" as they're getting beaten to death by guards.

Indeed.

That's entertainment worth the price of admission!

Chuggernaut

Regoras wrote: »

Yea, working as intended... because misfiring the second you leave Cold Harbor with no money resulting in a fine you can't pay ending in every guard wanting to plant an Axe in your face thus forcing you out of town and having to remake your character with no warning or explanation as to why in the hell this was even implemented is why this game never had to drop it's subscription.

Ok calling BS on this one. First off you end up alone after cold harbor with junk gear. If you "accidentally" shoot a civilian when you leave your room because your click happy, its on you. Secondly, why does anyone care about being killed by the guards? If you keep your money in the bank you can become a mass murder and just /sitchair in the town square till the a guard walks by a takes you out.

If you're saying for moral reasons you have to reroll your character, then you haven't played the game.

Regoras

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Regoras wrote: »

Yea, working as intended... because misfiring the second you leave Cold Harbor with no money resulting in a fine you can't pay ending in every guard wanting to plant an Axe in your face thus forcing you out of town and having to remake your character with no warning or explanation as to why in the hell this was even implemented is why this game never had to drop it's subscription.

Ok calling BS on this one. First off you end up alone after cold harbor with junk gear. If you "accidentally" shoot a civilian when you leave your room because your click happy, its on you. Secondly, why does anyone care about being killed by the guards? If you keep your money in the bank you can become a mass murder and just /sitchair in the town square till the a guard walks by a takes you out.

If you're saying for moral reasons you have to reroll your character, then you haven't played the game.

You can call whatever you want, I explained up there how my smacking the mouse on accident during a conversation fired my staff, which hit an NPC. I care because I was trying to play a new character and start my quests... which is impossible when you're being killed by every guard in the city and NPC's won't talk to you.

I don't really see where the disconnect is here.. buuut okie dokie. I'm sorry my suggesting that a drama inducing feature be modified to better accommodate new or returning players angers you so much.