If the four companions had a duel to the death, who would win?

BBSooner

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Snow Lilly - IMO not so strong and die easily.

Not so strong? The woman who knocked down a collapsed stone wall on her own? Hmmm...

IMO she weakest of the companions. I don't say she could be beaten by any dweeb, but if you compare her to any companion before soulburst - she is the the weakest link.

In all honesty, we didn't see any of them do anything. The vestige did it all. So... how are you comparing?

Agreed.

- Lyrus helps not only the vestige escape coldharbour but also frees Varen (sacrificing herself).
- Sai gets captured and imprisoned.
- Tharn immediately surrenders to Mannimarco, and is only just barely on equal magical footing with Mannimarco when Mannimarco is forced to confront him through a psijic projection.
- Varen, at the time of ESO, is really non-combative in general

I'd say at the time of ESO all the companions are equally matched. If Mannimarco is counted, then he's clearly the winner beween the 5 companions.

After the events of the main story, if Tharn is for any reason stronger it has more to do with ...

his theft of Chim-el Adabal and using it as opposed to any innate power he is currently holding.

wraith808

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Snow Lilly - IMO not so strong and die easily.

Not so strong? The woman who knocked down a collapsed stone wall on her own? Hmmm...

IMO she weakest of the companions. I don't say she could be beaten by any dweeb, but if you compare her to any companion before soulburst - she is the the weakest link.

In all honesty, we didn't see any of them do anything. The vestige did it all. So... how are you comparing?

Actually, we do. We have conversations and quests with all companions exept Mannimarco. Also, don't forget that all this topic is hypothetical. And interesting reading. This is how you can make them fight. Thought experiment

In those quests, none of them a really all that helpful. At least, that's what I've found. I could have done the quests without them. And in some cases, with the way that they messed up my normal combat routines, I would have *rather* done them without them.

And I realize that this is supposed to be hypothetical- but to be hypothetical, it has to be based upon some sort of known facts. We really don't have any other than mannimarco- if the things that we know are what we're basing it on- then kill all of them and we'll make more progress one way or the other in my opinion.

They're *all* useless.

Natjur

Abnur Tharn

Abnur Tharn cause he would cheat, the others would fight fair, but if anything Game of Thrones has taught me.

Fight with Honor and you lose.

Bane_of_Fringe

Varen Aquilarios

Varen was a tried and proven military leader. Was most likely a master of arms, considering he was raised under a duke. Guy probably killed more people than any of the companions, including the emperor, probably his guards as well.

EDIT: After Mannimarco of course. It's no secret that he could wipe all other four without a sweat.

ArcaneBlue

Abnur Tharn

just because I like Tharn.

drschplatt

"If the four companions had a duel to the death, who would win?"

The last one alive?

AshySamurai

Abnur Tharn

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Snow Lilly - IMO not so strong and die easily.

Not so strong? The woman who knocked down a collapsed stone wall on her own? Hmmm...

IMO she weakest of the companions. I don't say she could be beaten by any dweeb, but if you compare her to any companion before soulburst - she is the the weakest link.

In all honesty, we didn't see any of them do anything. The vestige did it all. So... how are you comparing?

Actually, we do. We have conversations and quests with all companions exept Mannimarco. Also, don't forget that all this topic is hypothetical. And interesting reading. This is how you can make them fight. Thought experiment

In those quests, none of them a really all that helpful. At least, that's what I've found. I could have done the quests without them. And in some cases, with the way that they messed up my normal combat routines, I would have *rather* done them without them.

And I realize that this is supposed to be hypothetical- but to be hypothetical, it has to be based upon some sort of known facts. We really don't have any other than mannimarco- if the things that we know are what we're basing it on- then kill all of them and we'll make more progress one way or the other in my opinion.

They're *all* useless.

We do know much about companions. You should talk and listen to your companions and not only rush through quest and not look only at how helphull in battle they were.

Varen - military leader, Imperial sorcerer and the former emperor of Cyrodiil, after soulburst he becomes a monk (and he read elder scroll, this is why he is blinded).

Sai - was a Redguard noble, martial artist, master swordsman, and leader of the Imperial Dragonguard.

Abnur Tharn - High Chancellor and Overlord of Nibenai and also the Imperial Battlemage of the Elder Council. He is 164 years old, so it seems that he also s necromancer.

Lyris Titanborn - half-giant, not so smart (she often can't understand Abnur Tharn), mercenary in the past.

wraith808

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Snow Lilly - IMO not so strong and die easily.

Not so strong? The woman who knocked down a collapsed stone wall on her own? Hmmm...

IMO she weakest of the companions. I don't say she could be beaten by any dweeb, but if you compare her to any companion before soulburst - she is the the weakest link.

In all honesty, we didn't see any of them do anything. The vestige did it all. So... how are you comparing?

Actually, we do. We have conversations and quests with all companions exept Mannimarco. Also, don't forget that all this topic is hypothetical. And interesting reading. This is how you can make them fight. Thought experiment

In those quests, none of them a really all that helpful. At least, that's what I've found. I could have done the quests without them. And in some cases, with the way that they messed up my normal combat routines, I would have *rather* done them without them.

And I realize that this is supposed to be hypothetical- but to be hypothetical, it has to be based upon some sort of known facts. We really don't have any other than mannimarco- if the things that we know are what we're basing it on- then kill all of them and we'll make more progress one way or the other in my opinion.

They're *all* useless.

We do know much about companions. You should talk and listen to your companions and not only rush through quest and not look only at how helphull in battle they were.

Varen - military leader, Imperial sorcerer and the former emperor of Cyrodiil, after soulburst he becomes a monk (and he read elder scroll, this is why he is blinded).

Sai - was a Redguard noble, martial artist, master swordsman, and leader of the Imperial Dragonguard.

Abnur Tharn - High Chancellor and Overlord of Nibenai and also the Imperial Battlemage of the Elder Council. He is 164 years old, so it seems that he also s necromancer.

Lyris Titanborn - half-giant, not so smart (she often can't understand Abnur Tharn), mercenary in the past.

I did listen, talk, and read, so we can throw that bit of hyperbolic assumption out of the window to begin with. I asked about concrete examples. Those are statements by biased people- and if you take the not so smart bit (that came from Tharn, natch) at face value (or from a wiki that does the same), then I have a bridge to sell you.

I can do the same:

Lyris Titanborn was a Nord warrior with giant blood in her veins and personal bodyguard of Emperor Varen Aquilarios. She fought at his right hand and saved his life numerous times and carried out his strategies in Cyrodiil. Many of Varen's triumphs would not have been possible if not for the giant-blooded bodyguard with the fire to lead troops in his risky ventures. In the end it was her willingness to sacrifice herself in the Bleeding Forge for the prophet, it's doubtful that much of the resistance to Molog Bal would ever have taken light. She finds herself at odds with Mannimarco and Abnur Tharn on most occasions, and though Tharn belittles her intelligence, he also recognizes her considerable wit. She has been through considerable difficulties all her life, and the Daedra realized her importance to Varen and his prophesies, and preyed on that to splinter her memories and reduce her effectiveness.

All of that is from the lore books and the quests. It all depends on how you spin it.

jelliedsoup

Who's the dk?

TheMachineKiller

Lyrus Titanborn

Lyris would critical charge, wrecking blow, reverse slash, reverse slash

sylviermoone

Abnur Tharn

TheMachineKiller wrote: »

Lyris would critical charge, wrecking blow, reverse slash, reverse slash

I wish she'd have done that even ONCE in the time she was "helping" me. Mostly she managed to bumble around and pull everyone down on top of us.

This is why you don't take a half giant on quests with you when you're trying to be sneaky....

Anvos

Abnur Tharn

Tharn pretty much wins since Lyris and Sai likely couldn't bring themselves to kill the other and Varen is a blind enfeebled person.

drschplatt

I imagine it would be like watching an Elder Scrolls remake of the Keystone Cops if they tried fighting each other. I'm not sure you could find 3 brain cells to rub together in that whole group.

Messy1

Abnur Tharn

Actually, CHUCK NORRIS!

AshySamurai

Abnur Tharn

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Snow Lilly - IMO not so strong and die easily.

Not so strong? The woman who knocked down a collapsed stone wall on her own? Hmmm...

IMO she weakest of the companions. I don't say she could be beaten by any dweeb, but if you compare her to any companion before soulburst - she is the the weakest link.

In all honesty, we didn't see any of them do anything. The vestige did it all. So... how are you comparing?

Actually, we do. We have conversations and quests with all companions exept Mannimarco. Also, don't forget that all this topic is hypothetical. And interesting reading. This is how you can make them fight. Thought experiment

In those quests, none of them a really all that helpful. At least, that's what I've found. I could have done the quests without them. And in some cases, with the way that they messed up my normal combat routines, I would have *rather* done them without them.

And I realize that this is supposed to be hypothetical- but to be hypothetical, it has to be based upon some sort of known facts. We really don't have any other than mannimarco- if the things that we know are what we're basing it on- then kill all of them and we'll make more progress one way or the other in my opinion.

They're *all* useless.

We do know much about companions. You should talk and listen to your companions and not only rush through quest and not look only at how helphull in battle they were.

Varen - military leader, Imperial sorcerer and the former emperor of Cyrodiil, after soulburst he becomes a monk (and he read elder scroll, this is why he is blinded).

Sai - was a Redguard noble, martial artist, master swordsman, and leader of the Imperial Dragonguard.

Abnur Tharn - High Chancellor and Overlord of Nibenai and also the Imperial Battlemage of the Elder Council. He is 164 years old, so it seems that he also s necromancer.

Lyris Titanborn - half-giant, not so smart (she often can't understand Abnur Tharn), mercenary in the past.

I did listen, talk, and read, so we can throw that bit of hyperbolic assumption out of the window to begin with. I asked about concrete examples. Those are statements by biased people- and if you take the not so smart bit (that came from Tharn, natch) at face value (or from a wiki that does the same), then I have a bridge to sell you.

I can do the same:

Lyris Titanborn was a Nord warrior with giant blood in her veins and personal bodyguard of Emperor Varen Aquilarios. She fought at his right hand and saved his life numerous times and carried out his strategies in Cyrodiil. Many of Varen's triumphs would not have been possible if not for the giant-blooded bodyguard with the fire to lead troops in his risky ventures. In the end it was her willingness to sacrifice herself in the Bleeding Forge for the prophet, it's doubtful that much of the resistance to Molog Bal would ever have taken light. She finds herself at odds with Mannimarco and Abnur Tharn on most occasions, and though Tharn belittles her intelligence, he also recognizes her considerable wit. She has been through considerable difficulties all her life, and the Daedra realized her importance to Varen and his prophesies, and preyed on that to splinter her memories and reduce her effectiveness.

All of that is from the lore books and the quests. It all depends on how you spin it.

Ok. Here is your example: Lyris's will was broken pretty fast. We have a quest to resque Lyris and she just "can't fight" because she have no will to do it. But Sai was tortured a far more time and still didn't breaked. This is the difference. Sai is The Warrior, but Lyris is just a mercenary. Sai was too good to steal Chim El-Adabal and flee with it, so Mannimarco didn't get it. Tharn was too smart to not 1v1 with Mannimarco.

What did Sai after soulburst? He hided Amulet of Kings. When he was campured and tortured he didn't said where he hided amulet.
What did Tharn? Pretended and planned how to save Tamriel and all Nirn. He is like a scout. Remember, it's not you asked him to join new five companions, it's he asked to join. He can't tell you "I want to join, let me in".
What did Varen? He read Elder Dcroll and learned from it. He blinded because of it, but he saved his mind and had knowledge.
What did Lyris? Hided and get captured. So, she did nothing useful to fix all this mess.

Dekkameron

Abnur Tharn

Abnur tharn is the only one that seems to be any noticeable damage so probably him.

BBSooner

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Snow Lilly - IMO not so strong and die easily.

Not so strong? The woman who knocked down a collapsed stone wall on her own? Hmmm...

IMO she weakest of the companions. I don't say she could be beaten by any dweeb, but if you compare her to any companion before soulburst - she is the the weakest link.

In all honesty, we didn't see any of them do anything. The vestige did it all. So... how are you comparing?

Actually, we do. We have conversations and quests with all companions exept Mannimarco. Also, don't forget that all this topic is hypothetical. And interesting reading. This is how you can make them fight. Thought experiment

In those quests, none of them a really all that helpful. At least, that's what I've found. I could have done the quests without them. And in some cases, with the way that they messed up my normal combat routines, I would have *rather* done them without them.

And I realize that this is supposed to be hypothetical- but to be hypothetical, it has to be based upon some sort of known facts. We really don't have any other than mannimarco- if the things that we know are what we're basing it on- then kill all of them and we'll make more progress one way or the other in my opinion.

They're *all* useless.

We do know much about companions. You should talk and listen to your companions and not only rush through quest and not look only at how helphull in battle they were.

Varen - military leader, Imperial sorcerer and the former emperor of Cyrodiil, after soulburst he becomes a monk (and he read elder scroll, this is why he is blinded).

Sai - was a Redguard noble, martial artist, master swordsman, and leader of the Imperial Dragonguard.

Abnur Tharn - High Chancellor and Overlord of Nibenai and also the Imperial Battlemage of the Elder Council. He is 164 years old, so it seems that he also s necromancer.

Lyris Titanborn - half-giant, not so smart (she often can't understand Abnur Tharn), mercenary in the past.

I did listen, talk, and read, so we can throw that bit of hyperbolic assumption out of the window to begin with. I asked about concrete examples. Those are statements by biased people- and if you take the not so smart bit (that came from Tharn, natch) at face value (or from a wiki that does the same), then I have a bridge to sell you.

I can do the same:

Lyris Titanborn was a Nord warrior with giant blood in her veins and personal bodyguard of Emperor Varen Aquilarios. She fought at his right hand and saved his life numerous times and carried out his strategies in Cyrodiil. Many of Varen's triumphs would not have been possible if not for the giant-blooded bodyguard with the fire to lead troops in his risky ventures. In the end it was her willingness to sacrifice herself in the Bleeding Forge for the prophet, it's doubtful that much of the resistance to Molog Bal would ever have taken light. She finds herself at odds with Mannimarco and Abnur Tharn on most occasions, and though Tharn belittles her intelligence, he also recognizes her considerable wit. She has been through considerable difficulties all her life, and the Daedra realized her importance to Varen and his prophesies, and preyed on that to splinter her memories and reduce her effectiveness.

All of that is from the lore books and the quests. It all depends on how you spin it.

What did Lyris? Hided and get captured. So, she did nothing useful to fix all this mess.

It's thanks to Lyris that the events that brought down Molag Bal started rolling in the first place. She not only spearheaded the prisonbreak, but fearlessly sacrificed herself to be subjected to the torture that Varen was enduring in order for him to be freed and guide the Vestige in Mundus. Varen's connection to Akatosh (seen at the end of the tutorial sequence) also could have strengthened his resolve against Molag Bal's machinations, yet she only had herself to rely on and still willingly took his place. The chain of events leading to the halt of the planesmeld could be pinpointed to an action made by Lyris.

Merlin13KAGL

Abnur Tharn

gwillard_ESO wrote: »

Whichever one drops traps. They all seem to have trouble with those.

@gwillard_ESO , ha.

*Insert loop voiceover of "Ow. Quit it." sound*

"Lyris there are spikes right there..."

"Sai, don't step in the..."

"Oh, never mind... "

BBSooner

double

wraith808

AshySamurai wrote: »

This is the difference. Sai is The Warrior, but Lyris is just a mercenary.

You keep saying this. Where do you get the idea that Lyris was a mercenary? She really wasn't. And that difference is what answers your next question.

AshySamurai wrote: »

What did Lyris? Hided and get captured. So, she did nothing useful to fix all this mess.

The answer to that question is that Lyris was Varen's personal bodyguard. Where was she? Where ever Varen was. And when it came down to it- she sacrificed herself for it, never expecting to be rescued.

You look at sacrifice and not seeking glory as a weakness, when actually, without her, Molog Bal would have won.

Dekkameron

Abnur Tharn

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

This is the difference. Sai is The Warrior, but Lyris is just a mercenary.

You keep saying this. Where do you get the idea that Lyris was a mercenary? She really wasn't. And that difference is what answers your next question.

AshySamurai wrote: »

What did Lyris? Hided and get captured. So, she did nothing useful to fix all this mess.

The answer to that question is that Lyris was Varen's personal bodyguard. Where was she? Where ever Varen was. And when it came down to it- she sacrificed herself for it, never expecting to be rescued.

You look at sacrifice and not seeking glory as a weakness, when actually, without her, Molog Bal would have won.

Lyris did work as a merc though. Remember the quest where you had to free her and you had to collect her armour that had been hidden around the camp? She mentions her mercenary past there.

AshySamurai

Abnur Tharn

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

This is the difference. Sai is The Warrior, but Lyris is just a mercenary.

You keep saying this. Where do you get the idea that Lyris was a mercenary? She really wasn't. And that difference is what answers your next question.

AshySamurai wrote: »

What did Lyris? Hided and get captured. So, she did nothing useful to fix all this mess.

The answer to that question is that Lyris was Varen's personal bodyguard. Where was she? Where ever Varen was. And when it came down to it- she sacrificed herself for it, never expecting to be rescued.

You look at sacrifice and not seeking glory as a weakness, when actually, without her, Molog Bal would have won.

Yep, exactly what @Dekkameron said. In that quest you even visit that camp.

Also, if I remember correctly, Varen was with monks studying Elder Scroll.

About sacrifice to free Varen. That wasn't the plan. She didn't planned to sacrifice herself. She just wanted to save him. But you don't have to be a genius to know what you should do. That was the only way.

BBSooner wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Snow Lilly - IMO not so strong and die easily.

Not so strong? The woman who knocked down a collapsed stone wall on her own? Hmmm...

IMO she weakest of the companions. I don't say she could be beaten by any dweeb, but if you compare her to any companion before soulburst - she is the the weakest link.

In all honesty, we didn't see any of them do anything. The vestige did it all. So... how are you comparing?

Actually, we do. We have conversations and quests with all companions exept Mannimarco. Also, don't forget that all this topic is hypothetical. And interesting reading. This is how you can make them fight. Thought experiment

In those quests, none of them a really all that helpful. At least, that's what I've found. I could have done the quests without them. And in some cases, with the way that they messed up my normal combat routines, I would have *rather* done them without them.

And I realize that this is supposed to be hypothetical- but to be hypothetical, it has to be based upon some sort of known facts. We really don't have any other than mannimarco- if the things that we know are what we're basing it on- then kill all of them and we'll make more progress one way or the other in my opinion.

They're *all* useless.

We do know much about companions. You should talk and listen to your companions and not only rush through quest and not look only at how helphull in battle they were.

Varen - military leader, Imperial sorcerer and the former emperor of Cyrodiil, after soulburst he becomes a monk (and he read elder scroll, this is why he is blinded).

Sai - was a Redguard noble, martial artist, master swordsman, and leader of the Imperial Dragonguard.

Abnur Tharn - High Chancellor and Overlord of Nibenai and also the Imperial Battlemage of the Elder Council. He is 164 years old, so it seems that he also s necromancer.

Lyris Titanborn - half-giant, not so smart (she often can't understand Abnur Tharn), mercenary in the past.

I did listen, talk, and read, so we can throw that bit of hyperbolic assumption out of the window to begin with. I asked about concrete examples. Those are statements by biased people- and if you take the not so smart bit (that came from Tharn, natch) at face value (or from a wiki that does the same), then I have a bridge to sell you.

I can do the same:

Lyris Titanborn was a Nord warrior with giant blood in her veins and personal bodyguard of Emperor Varen Aquilarios. She fought at his right hand and saved his life numerous times and carried out his strategies in Cyrodiil. Many of Varen's triumphs would not have been possible if not for the giant-blooded bodyguard with the fire to lead troops in his risky ventures. In the end it was her willingness to sacrifice herself in the Bleeding Forge for the prophet, it's doubtful that much of the resistance to Molog Bal would ever have taken light. She finds herself at odds with Mannimarco and Abnur Tharn on most occasions, and though Tharn belittles her intelligence, he also recognizes her considerable wit. She has been through considerable difficulties all her life, and the Daedra realized her importance to Varen and his prophesies, and preyed on that to splinter her memories and reduce her effectiveness.

All of that is from the lore books and the quests. It all depends on how you spin it.

What did Lyris? Hided and get captured. So, she did nothing useful to fix all this mess.

It's thanks to Lyris that the events that brought down Molag Bal started rolling in the first place. She not only spearheaded the prisonbreak, but fearlessly sacrificed herself to be subjected to the torture that Varen was enduring in order for him to be freed and guide the Vestige in Mundus. Varen's connection to Akatosh (seen at the end of the tutorial sequence) also could have strengthened his resolve against Molag Bal's machinations, yet she only had herself to rely on and still willingly took his place. The chain of events leading to the halt of the planesmeld could be pinpointed to an action made by Lyris.

Don't forget that since beta till last revamp not Lyris saved you, but Er-Jaseen. He opened your cell. You just met Lyris because Varen said her to find you.

And it was Varen's plan to organaise prison break. I think Varen knew that Lyris will have to sacrifice herself. So, she was just used.

Guys, don't get me wrong, Snow Lilly is cute. But as a companion she is the weakest. Sure, she have strengh to fight and she physically strong (half giant, remember?), but she won't win in a fight with other companions.

BBSooner

AshySamurai wrote: »

Don't forget that since beta till last revamp not Lyris saved you, but Er-Jaseen. He opened your cell. You just met Lyris because Varen said her to find you.

And it was Varen's plan to organaise prison break. I think Varen knew that Lyris will have to sacrifice herself. So, she was just used.

Guys, don't get me wrong, Snow Lilly is cute. But as a companion she is the weakest. Sure, she have strengh to fight and she physically strong (half giant, remember?), but she won't win in a fight with other companions.

Except Er-Jaseen is no longer who saves you, thus the story changes. At this point in time it's Lyris. Her orchestration, her sacrifice. Whether or not she wins the hypothetical fight with the other companions isn't what my post was about - at all. You said she did nothing. As of the game - at this very moment - it's her actions that led to the series of events that toppled Molag Bal, which is far more crucial to the story as a whole than the others.

AshySamurai

Abnur Tharn

BBSooner wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Don't forget that since beta till last revamp not Lyris saved you, but Er-Jaseen. He opened your cell. You just met Lyris because Varen said her to find you.

And it was Varen's plan to organaise prison break. I think Varen knew that Lyris will have to sacrifice herself. So, she was just used.

Guys, don't get me wrong, Snow Lilly is cute. But as a companion she is the weakest. Sure, she have strengh to fight and she physically strong (half giant, remember?), but she won't win in a fight with other companions.

Except Er-Jaseen is no longer who saves you, thus the story changes. At this point in time it's Lyris. Her orchestration, her sacrifice. Whether or not she wins the hypothetical fight with the other companions isn't what my post was about - at all. You said she did nothing. As of the game - at this very moment - it's her actions that led to the series of events that toppled Molag Bal, which is far more crucial to the story as a whole than the others.

Well, yeah. I said. After soulburst and till escaping from Coldharbour she really did nothing useful. And even after escaping her role wasn't most important. Without Sai we can't get Amulet of Kings. Without Tharn we can't rescue Sai. Lyris did only one thing - helped to escaped from Coldharbour. She can be easily replaced. It doesn't matter who opens your cell. The only thing that could be complicate is to rescue Varen, but IMO if not Lyris, then Cadwell would do something with it. Oh, Cadwell, mad genius. He is the one who will win this fight.

BBSooner

AshySamurai wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Don't forget that since beta till last revamp not Lyris saved you, but Er-Jaseen. He opened your cell. You just met Lyris because Varen said her to find you.

And it was Varen's plan to organaise prison break. I think Varen knew that Lyris will have to sacrifice herself. So, she was just used.

Guys, don't get me wrong, Snow Lilly is cute. But as a companion she is the weakest. Sure, she have strengh to fight and she physically strong (half giant, remember?), but she won't win in a fight with other companions.

Except Er-Jaseen is no longer who saves you, thus the story changes. At this point in time it's Lyris. Her orchestration, her sacrifice. Whether or not she wins the hypothetical fight with the other companions isn't what my post was about - at all. You said she did nothing. As of the game - at this very moment - it's her actions that led to the series of events that toppled Molag Bal, which is far more crucial to the story as a whole than the others.

Well, yeah. I said. After soulburst and till escaping from Coldharbour she really did nothing useful. And even after escaping her role wasn't most important. Without Sai we can't get Amulet of Kings. Without Tharn we can't rescue Sai. Lyris did only one thing - helped to escaped from Coldharbour. She can be easily replaced. It doesn't matter who opens your cell. The only thing that could be complicate is to rescue Varen, but IMO if not Lyris, then Cadwell would do something with it. Oh, Cadwell, mad genius. He is the one who will win this fight.

Mannimarco got to Chim-el Adabal without Sai, what makes you think we wouldn't have found a way? Tharn isn't exclusively needed to rescue Sai. Hell, the only absolute need for Tharn is casting the spell before the final confrontation, and even then we're taking Tharn's word for it that only he can do it (which is probably garbage, we just went with it because of the haste we were in to stop Molag Bal). But that takes us back to Lyris. As of this moment in the story she leads the escape, she is soley concerned with Varen, and she busts you out. Nobody else. No amount of explaining away takes that away from her.

wraith808

Dekkameron wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

This is the difference. Sai is The Warrior, but Lyris is just a mercenary.

You keep saying this. Where do you get the idea that Lyris was a mercenary? She really wasn't. And that difference is what answers your next question.

AshySamurai wrote: »

What did Lyris? Hided and get captured. So, she did nothing useful to fix all this mess.

The answer to that question is that Lyris was Varen's personal bodyguard. Where was she? Where ever Varen was. And when it came down to it- she sacrificed herself for it, never expecting to be rescued.

You look at sacrifice and not seeking glory as a weakness, when actually, without her, Molog Bal would have won.

Lyris did work as a merc though. Remember the quest where you had to free her and you had to collect her armour that had been hidden around the camp? She mentions her mercenary past there.

She worked as a mercenary, sure. The point of the matter that's being stated is that she's just a mercenary. She's not. Devoting yourself to an Emperor as a a personal bodyguard and being accepted as the same is something that is beyond being a mercenary. And not being defined as the same says there's something beyond the standard that's being referenced here.

Mumyo

Lyrus Titanborn

Sai sahan protects lyris, he dies after killing abnur tharn, old man is a cripple and she splits him and eats his ***.

AshySamurai

Abnur Tharn

BBSooner wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Don't forget that since beta till last revamp not Lyris saved you, but Er-Jaseen. He opened your cell. You just met Lyris because Varen said her to find you.

And it was Varen's plan to organaise prison break. I think Varen knew that Lyris will have to sacrifice herself. So, she was just used.

Guys, don't get me wrong, Snow Lilly is cute. But as a companion she is the weakest. Sure, she have strengh to fight and she physically strong (half giant, remember?), but she won't win in a fight with other companions.

Except Er-Jaseen is no longer who saves you, thus the story changes. At this point in time it's Lyris. Her orchestration, her sacrifice. Whether or not she wins the hypothetical fight with the other companions isn't what my post was about - at all. You said she did nothing. As of the game - at this very moment - it's her actions that led to the series of events that toppled Molag Bal, which is far more crucial to the story as a whole than the others.

Well, yeah. I said. After soulburst and till escaping from Coldharbour she really did nothing useful. And even after escaping her role wasn't most important. Without Sai we can't get Amulet of Kings. Without Tharn we can't rescue Sai. Lyris did only one thing - helped to escaped from Coldharbour. She can be easily replaced. It doesn't matter who opens your cell. The only thing that could be complicate is to rescue Varen, but IMO if not Lyris, then Cadwell would do something with it. Oh, Cadwell, mad genius. He is the one who will win this fight.

Mannimarco got to Chim-el Adabal without Sai, what makes you think we wouldn't have found a way? Tharn isn't exclusively needed to rescue Sai. Hell, the only absolute need for Tharn is casting the spell before the final confrontation, and even then we're taking Tharn's word for it that only he can do it (which is probably garbage, we just went with it because of the haste we were in to stop Molag Bal). But that takes us back to Lyris. As of this moment in the story she leads the escape, she is soley concerned with Varen, and she busts you out. Nobody else. No amount of explaining away takes that away from her.

Well, as you said that we can replace Sai and Tharn, IMO it's more easily to replace Lyris. Actually, we saw introduction when we was saved by not Lyris. Also, I don't think that we can find Sai without Tharn. If we could do it why we need Tharn? Because Varen tried and failed. And we wouldn't find a way without Sai (if only accidentally) because, if I remember correctly, Mannimarco used Sai in some way to figure where to search ring that lead to the amulet.

Dekkameron

Abnur Tharn

Mumyo wrote: »

Sai sahan protects lyris, he dies after killing abnur tharn, old man is a cripple and she splits him and eats his ***.

This isn't Game of thrones lol :P

BBSooner

Well, as you said that we can replace Sai and Tharn, IMO it's more easily to replace Lyris. Actually, we saw introduction when we was saved by not Lyris.

Referencing the introduction where Lyris doesn't open the cell doesn't apply. It doesn't exist anymore. It's no longer part of the story. The story, as written, has Lyris as the figure head that set the events of eso that involve our character in motion.

Also, I don't think that we can find Sai without Tharn. If we could do it why we need Tharn? Because Varen tried and failed. And we wouldn't find a way without Sai (if only accidentally) because, if I remember correctly, Mannimarco used Sai in some way to figure where to search ring that lead to the amulet.

We rescue Tharn because the opportunity presented itself to ally ourselves with another of the "famed companions", not because he was the single and only being in all of existance to know where Sai is being kept.