The original 6 classes.

Armitas

In the beginning there were 6 classes...

2 of them were absorbed into the four classes and unfortunately that is all I know about it. Would those of you who know inform us about these mysterious, primordial and extinct classes.

f047ys3v3n

It does seem these classes seem to still exist in enemy form. Battlemage anyone. Perhaps we shall play them ourselves someday but I really hope the finish the first 4 before that. My NB has terrible numbers post 1.6 and I also can't seem to figure out what to do with my sorc. It is early still so perhaps I just haven't found the right bars but they might also just be lacking as these two classes do have a history of neglect.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

I believe one was called the Warden and got fused with the Templar.

Seraphyel

We at least have a Necromancer-NPC class. They are everywhere and I don't know why that's no playable class.

Soulshine

Seraphyel wrote: »

We at least have a Necromancer-NPC class. They are everywhere and I don't know why that's no playable class.

Maybe this is something that will be brought to the game if we ever get Dark Brotherhood later?

Joy_Division

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

It does seem these classes seem to still exist in enemy form. Battlemage anyone. Perhaps we shall play them ourselves someday but I really hope the finish the first 4 before that. My NB has terrible numbers post 1.6 and I also can't seem to figure out what to do with my sorc. It is early still so perhaps I just haven't found the right bars but they might also just be lacking as these two classes do have a history of neglect.

I'd reroll a battlemage from vet DSA Dwemer stage in an instant

Magicka NBs might be in as bad place now for DPS. You are a good poster and player, I hope you figure something out and improve the meta in this regard.

AngryNord

Armitas wrote: »

In the beginning there were 6 classes...

2 of them were absorbed into the four classes and unfortunately that is all I know about it. Would those of you who know inform us about these mysterious, primordial and extinct classes.

Warden definately was one, I'm not sure it is known what the other was, possibly hunter? (would've given us 2 typical light armour classes - warden (healer) and sorcerer, 2 medium armour - hunter and nightblade and 2 heavy - Dragonknight and a more DPS-oriented Paladin-type Templar)

Armitas

AngryNord wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

In the beginning there were 6 classes...

2 of them were absorbed into the four classes and unfortunately that is all I know about it. Would those of you who know inform us about these mysterious, primordial and extinct classes.

Warden definately was one, I'm not sure it is known what the other was, possibly hunter? (would've given us 2 typical light armour classes - warden (healer) and sorcerer, 2 medium armour - hunter and nightblade and 2 heavy - Dragonknight and a more DPS-oriented Paladin-type Templar)

Makes sense. So I guess the "paladin" absorbed the warden and the nightblade absorbed the "hunter".

I really wanted a buff class so I choose DK because he appeared to have the most group buffs. I wonder if the DK absorbed some of the "paladin" to make room for the "paladins" warden heals.

Gidorick

I really wish they would add non magical classes. I hate that all the skills that aren't weapon skills are magical.

starkerealm

AngryNord wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

In the beginning there were 6 classes...

2 of them were absorbed into the four classes and unfortunately that is all I know about it. Would those of you who know inform us about these mysterious, primordial and extinct classes.

Warden definately was one, I'm not sure it is known what the other was, possibly hunter? (would've given us 2 typical light armour classes - warden (healer) and sorcerer, 2 medium armour - hunter and nightblade and 2 heavy - Dragonknight and a more DPS-oriented Paladin-type Templar)

Given this is Elder Scrolls, Witchhunter seems slightly more likely.

Suru

Seraphyel wrote: »

We at least have a Necromancer-NPC class. They are everywhere and I don't know why that's no playable class.

Cause they summon a form of pets as a main skill, it would just be a necro sorc who uses pets and fears you from range. Not many like pet users.

Rosveen

Sometimes I wish the beta forums hadn't been lost.

IIRC originally there were going to be offensive and defensive classes of each archetype. So that makes 6. Out of current 4, nightblade was added last.

starkerealm

Rosveen wrote: »

Sometimes I wish the beta forums hadn't been lost.

IIRC originally there were going to be offensive and defensive classes of each archetype. So that makes 6. Out of current 4, nightblade was added last.

In that case, Battlemage makes sense... but... huh... maybe Bard or Agent for the last class?

AngryNord

starkerealm wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Sometimes I wish the beta forums hadn't been lost.

IIRC originally there were going to be offensive and defensive classes of each archetype. So that makes 6. Out of current 4, nightblade was added last.

In that case, Battlemage makes sense... but... huh... maybe Bard or Agent for the last class?

I'd go for Bard then..
(sorcerer - offensive mage, warden (healer) - defensive mage, Nightblade - offensive DPS, Dragonknight - defensive Melee, Templar - offensive Melee - in other words, it leaves a defensive DPS (if such a thing can be said to exist).

starkerealm

AngryNord wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Sometimes I wish the beta forums hadn't been lost.

IIRC originally there were going to be offensive and defensive classes of each archetype. So that makes 6. Out of current 4, nightblade was added last.

In that case, Battlemage makes sense... but... huh... maybe Bard or Agent for the last class?

I'd go for Bard then..
(sorcerer - offensive mage, warden (healer) - defensive mage, Nightblade - offensive DPS, Dragonknight - defensive Melee, Templar - offensive Melee - in other words, it leaves a defensive DPS (if such a thing can be said to exist).

I'm actually wondering if Sorcerers weren't supposed to be the defensive Mage. Bound Armor, an entire tree built around keeping people at arms length, and locking down enemies?

Battlemage... at least in Morrowind and Oblivion was a more aggressive Destruction focused build, while Sorcerers have always been one of the beefier mage classes in the SP games.

EDIT: Sorry, the Warden thing slipped my mind. D'oh.

Bfish22090

I believe that class was called diversity

Rosveen

AngryNord wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Sometimes I wish the beta forums hadn't been lost.

IIRC originally there were going to be offensive and defensive classes of each archetype. So that makes 6. Out of current 4, nightblade was added last.

In that case, Battlemage makes sense... but... huh... maybe Bard or Agent for the last class?

I'd go for Bard then..
(sorcerer - offensive mage, warden (healer) - defensive mage, Nightblade - offensive DPS, Dragonknight - defensive Melee, Templar - offensive Melee - in other words, it leaves a defensive DPS (if such a thing can be said to exist).

I think the archetypes were mage, warrior, thief. Your way it'd have to be tank, not melee - which kinda works too, because then DPS could be melee (offensive in-your-face) and ranged (defensive stay-away-and-maybe-buff-people).

But I don't know. I wasn't in early beta, I know only what I read back then and I'm fuzzy on the details. Hey @Nordjitsu, you still around? You'd remember.

phairdon

Suru wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

We at least have a Necromancer-NPC class. They are everywhere and I don't know why that's no playable class.

Cause they summon a form of pets as a main skill, it would just be a necro sorc who uses pets and fears you from range. Not many like pet users.

Who are the 'not many'?

Armitas

I wonder if the ice shield mage npcs use to block ranged attacks was once a skill used by one of these fallen heroes.

Yeah Nords still around, he should know.

f047ys3v3n

Joy_Division wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

It does seem these classes seem to still exist in enemy form. Battlemage anyone. Perhaps we shall play them ourselves someday but I really hope the finish the first 4 before that. My NB has terrible numbers post 1.6 and I also can't seem to figure out what to do with my sorc. It is early still so perhaps I just haven't found the right bars but they might also just be lacking as these two classes do have a history of neglect.

I'd reroll a battlemage from vet DSA Dwemer stage in an instant

Magicka NBs might be in as bad place now for DPS. You are a good poster and player, I hope you figure something out and improve the meta in this regard.

Thanks. I hope so too.

starkerealm

Armitas wrote: »

I wonder if the ice shield mage npcs use to block ranged attacks was once a skill on these heroes bar.

Yeah Nords still around, he should know.

It would make sense. Right now there's DKs for fire. Sorcerers provide lightning damage. The lack of a frost damage class has always struck me as a little odd.

Valnas

i'd liek a non daedric set of summons. morphs for undead (poison/disease magic)

AngryNord

I dunno, if we consider six classes, based on the three archetypes Warrior, Thief and Mage, and at the same time the three available armour types and six available weapons styles, we'd lack a second class under the Thief label, for medium armour and most likely associated with the bow skill... That'd likely mean an archer/hunter/ranger-type class? (Sorc - Mage/light armour/destro staff/offensive, Warden - Mage/light armour/resto staff/defensive, Nightblade - Thief/medium armour/dual-wield/defensive (given that it's so stealth based), Templar - Warrior/heavy armour/two-hander/offensive, Dragonknight - Warrior/heavy armour/sword+shield, defensive).

starkerealm

AngryNord wrote: »

I dunno, if we consider six classes, based on the three archetypes Warrior, Thief and Mage, and at the same time the three available armour types and six available weapons styles, we'd lack a second class under the Thief label, for medium armour and most likely associated with the bow skill... That'd likely mean an archer/hunter/ranger-type class? (Sorc - Mage/light armour/destro staff/offensive, Warden - Mage/light armour/resto staff/defensive, Nightblade - Thief/medium armour/dual-wield/defensive (given that it's so stealth based), Templar - Warrior/heavy armour/two-hander/offensive, Dragonknight - Warrior/heavy armour/sword+shield, defensive).

At that point the Witchhunter... or just Hunter, makes a lot of sense. A bow wielding medium armor magic user from the single player games.

Samadhi

starkerealm wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Sometimes I wish the beta forums hadn't been lost.

IIRC originally there were going to be offensive and defensive classes of each archetype. So that makes 6. Out of current 4, nightblade was added last.

In that case, Battlemage makes sense... but... huh... maybe Bard or Agent for the last class?

I'd go for Bard then..
(sorcerer - offensive mage, warden (healer) - defensive mage, Nightblade - offensive DPS, Dragonknight - defensive Melee, Templar - offensive Melee - in other words, it leaves a defensive DPS (if such a thing can be said to exist).

I'm actually wondering if Sorcerers weren't supposed to be the defensive Mage. Bound Armor, an entire tree built around keeping people at arms length, and locking down enemies?

Battlemage... at least in Morrowind and Oblivion was a more aggressive Destruction focused build, while Sorcerers have always been one of the beefier mage classes in the SP games.

EDIT: Sorry, the Warden thing slipped my mind. D'oh.

This is correct. The Elder Scrolls Sorcerer has always been a tanky mage rather than a light armour mage.
In Daggerfall, they had Spell Absorb but could not heal their own Magicka otherwise; in Morrowind, they specialized in Medium Armour and Heavy Armour and had no base synergy with Light or Unarmoured; in Oblivion, they specialized in Heavy Armour.
Sorcerer were never really a light armour sort of caster.

Ironically, Nightblade in Morrowind had bonuses to Light Armour and Unarmoured as well as various bonuses to the Magic schools making them a solid choice for a caster but many people who play Nightblade expected a straight up Rogue which Nightblade never really fit with (Elder Scrolls has a separate Rogue class with its own bonuses being geared towards a more physical stealth class whereas Nightblade is stealth mage).
Sorcerer was a better choice for anyone who wanted to play with a summoning mage though; Sorcerer has always had Conjuration and the Morrowind class description even specifically references their primary reliance on and love of Daedric Summons.

starkerealm

Samadhi wrote: »

This is correct. The Elder Scrolls Sorcerer has always been a tanky mage rather than a light armour mage.
In Daggerfall, they had Spell Absorb but could not heal their own Magicka otherwise; in Morrowind, they specialized in Medium Armour and Heavy Armour and had no base synergy with Light or Unarmoured; in Oblivion, they specialized in Heavy Armour.
Sorcerer were never really a light armour sort of caster.

Ironically, Nightblade in Morrowind had bonuses to Light Armour and Unarmoured as well as various bonuses to the Magic schools making them a solid choice for a caster but many people who play Nightblade expected a straight up Rogue which Nightblade never really fit with (Elder Scrolls has a separate Rogue class with its own bonuses being geared towards a more physical stealth class whereas Nightblade is stealth mage).
Sorcerer was a better choice for anyone who wanted to play with a summoning mage though; Sorcerer has always had Conjuration and the Morrowind class description even specifically references their primary reliance on and love of Daedric Summons.

Yeah, I remember the Nightblade in Morrowind actually tripping me up, because the sneak skill started a little too low to actually be effective without supplementing it with the starting chameleon.

Though, it probably is worth pointing out, that Light Armor in Morrowind is analogous to Online's Medium Armor, and Morrowind had a seperate Medium Armor skill line that has no equivalent in any of the later games.

In theory Morrowind's heavy armor was for your heavy infantry characters, while medium was armor for normal infantry combat. If Morrowind or Oblivion had used a perk system like Skyrim, we'd probably still have all four classes, but Oblivion cut the systems down to just Light and Heavy.

Samadhi

starkerealm wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

This is correct. The Elder Scrolls Sorcerer has always been a tanky mage rather than a light armour mage.
In Daggerfall, they had Spell Absorb but could not heal their own Magicka otherwise; in Morrowind, they specialized in Medium Armour and Heavy Armour and had no base synergy with Light or Unarmoured; in Oblivion, they specialized in Heavy Armour.
Sorcerer were never really a light armour sort of caster.

Ironically, Nightblade in Morrowind had bonuses to Light Armour and Unarmoured as well as various bonuses to the Magic schools making them a solid choice for a caster but many people who play Nightblade expected a straight up Rogue which Nightblade never really fit with (Elder Scrolls has a separate Rogue class with its own bonuses being geared towards a more physical stealth class whereas Nightblade is stealth mage).
Sorcerer was a better choice for anyone who wanted to play with a summoning mage though; Sorcerer has always had Conjuration and the Morrowind class description even specifically references their primary reliance on and love of Daedric Summons.

Yeah, I remember the Nightblade in Morrowind actually tripping me up, because the sneak skill started a little too low to actually be effective without supplementing it with the starting chameleon.

Though, it probably is worth pointing out, that Light Armor in Morrowind is analogous to Online's Medium Armor, and Morrowind had a seperate Medium Armor skill line that has no equivalent in any of the later games.

In theory Morrowind's heavy armor was for your heavy infantry characters, while medium was armor for normal infantry combat. If Morrowind or Oblivion had used a perk system like Skyrim, we'd probably still have all four classes, but Oblivion cut the systems down to just Light and Heavy.

Yeah, Light Armour in Morrowind/Oblivion became Medium Armour in ESO, but Nightblade also had specialty in Unarmoured in common with Mage, which was the equivalent of Light Armour in ESO.
Just take interest in the fact that Sorcerer had no synergy with being in cloth compared to Mage or Nightblade.

Of course, it's also noteworthy that Nightblade's specialization was Magic rather than Stealth, meaning Nightblade was a Mage class at core anyway.
It is interesting how perceptions from outside of the Elder Scrolls series are changing things though.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Seraphyel wrote: »

We at least have a Necromancer-NPC class. They are everywhere and I don't know why that's no playable class.

this is what i have the most problem with the game, it should have been available at launch, instead we are still pining away for a necro class. im starting to get tired of waiting, in every other TES game we had the option of necromancy, except this one, and its royally pissing me off.

NordJitsu

@Rosveen @Armitas


I'm actually currently unsubbed (but somehow able to post?) and waiting for B2P. Mix of frustrations with the game and busy RL (for anyone who cares, lol.)


I remember the Warden class and I remember it being described as a "defensive caster." It's my understanding that this was largely absorbed into the Sorcerer class (presumably the Dark Magic line). If any of you remember, Dark Magic used to be almost wholly defensive and CC-based. Crystal Shards was added sometime around October 2013 but before that there was a 360 knockback called "Repulse."

I assume that Sorcerer lost a skill line or that it's skill lines were consolidated (maybe the reason why it seems to be missing things the other classes have, because it's a mishmash.)

And I don't remember ZOS or anyone ever confirming a 6th class. As far as I know, that was based on gamer-journalist speculation. The rationale being that if there were both "offensive" and "defensive" casters than there would be an offensive and defensive version of each archetype (2xThief, 2xMage, 2xWarrior=6.) But that was back before we knew much about the classes and I think they were assuming DK=offensive warrior; Templar=defensive warrior; Sorcerer=offensive mage; Warden=defensive mage; Nightblade=offensive thief; __________=defensive thief (maybe hunter?)

Looking back those assumptions don't really add up perfectly so there may have only ever been 5 classes and ZOS just realized the Warden was redundant.

Here's an example of some of that speculation that I think took form into rumor and spread:

http://elderscrollsonlineguide.com/2013/07/elder-scrolls-online-hunter-class/211/211

And I never got to play when the Warden was around so I can't say FOR SURE that there's no 6th class. I just remember the rumor popping up at the time and me arguing that there was no evidence beyond idle speculation.

AngryNord

NordJitsu wrote: »

DK=offensive warrior; Templar=defensive warrior

Wouldn't it be the other way around? DKs are shown with one-hander+shield, which tends to be considered defensive, while Templars are shown with a two-handed axe, which tends to be considered offensive?

exiledtyrant

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Rosveen @Armitas


I'm actually currently unsubbed (but somehow able to post?) and waiting for B2P. Mix of frustrations with the game and busy RL (for anyone who cares, lol.)


I remember the Warden class and I remember it being described as a "defensive caster." It's my understanding that this was largely absorbed into the Sorcerer class (presumably the Dark Magic line). If any of you remember, Dark Magic used to be almost wholly defensive and CC-based. Crystal Shards was added sometime around October 2013 but before that there was a 360 knockback called "Repulse."

I assume that Sorcerer lost a skill line or that it's skill lines were consolidated (maybe the reason why it seems to be missing things the other classes have, because it's a mishmash.)

And I don't remember ZOS or anyone ever confirming a 6th class. As far as I know, that was based on gamer-journalist speculation. The rationale being that if there were both "offensive" and "defensive" casters than there would be an offensive and defensive version of each archetype (2xThief, 2xMage, 2xWarrior=6.) But that was back before we knew much about the classes and I think they were assuming DK=offensive warrior; Templar=defensive warrior; Sorcerer=offensive mage; Warden=defensive mage; Nightblade=offensive thief; __________=defensive thief (maybe hunter?)

Looking back those assumptions don't really add up perfectly so there may have only ever been 5 classes and ZOS just realized the Warden was redundant.

Here's an example of some of that speculation that I think took form into rumor and spread:

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-careers-for-every-personality-type-2015-1?utm_content=bufferfa376&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

And I never got to play when the Warden was around so I can't say FOR SURE that there's no 6th class. I just remember the rumor popping up at the time and me arguing that there was no evidence beyond idle speculation.

Dark magic's failure to fulfill a proper niche and the sorcerer mishmash is exactly what disappointed me during the beta when I finally got to test the skill lines. Dark magic alone had so much wasted potential that could have been made more unique by committing to full crowd control and implementing positional triggers into it's morphs. I made a large write up about 1 month before beta pushed it live but by then it was already to late.

In all honesty I expected sorcerer to have conjuration, alteration, and destruction as their skills lines and couldn't understand why so many things were mixed or taken away. I didn't think sorc would have access to a full crowd control line at all. Conjuration could have been utility and short term summons with a permanent summon as an ultimate( easier to justify an ultimate taking up 2 slots). Alteration could have been buffs and debuffs. Destruction could have been straight damage with all base skills starting as fire with the morphs allowing you to change it to ice or lightning for a different effect and damage type.

Instead we have each sorc skill line trying to offer to much in each line without a real focus. Like storm calling offering CC, direct damage, defensive buffs, and offensive buffs.