Champion Point System Solution

Magus

I have a suggested solution to prevent the grinding of CP and the subsequent nerfs that make doing anything in this game unbearable because there is no XP.

Make it so when you are in cyrodiil everyone has 3600 CS applied to them; scale everyone up and have the differentiators be gear, player skill, and unlocked skill passives. The grinding of CP will only be an issue in PVP. Sure, you can do your trials faster so you can get the gold item but that really has no impact on anyone else. By doing the CS scaling in PVP, it will be balanced and new players will be able to compete. In PVE, have the system work as it does now. The only people who would not like this are the grinders because they won't feel like Emperors fighting level 10s but how is that fun anyway to be so unbalanced. If you're grinding to do trials, ok... they weren't easy enough already? You want to complete them in 3 minutes instead of 12? Fine go grind but it will have no impact on PVP balance if you scale everyone up.

Rhakon

good idea!

KaneK899ub17_ESO

In favor of this. Maybe not necessarily 3600 but maybe like half that. 1800. Then people who put forth the effort get something out of it, but the major buffs will be achievable by everyone. Either way, this would be preferred.

Magus

KaneK899ub17_ESO wrote: »

In favor of this. Maybe not necessarily 3600 but maybe like half that. 1800. Then people who put forth the effort get something out of it, but the major buffs will be achievable by everyone. Either way, this would be preferred.

I would be in favor of this too because in normal battle scaling if your stats are higher then you will have the higher stats. But I really do think changing battle scaling to include CS is the way to go to keep some semblance of balance in PVP. Otherwise, we will have a few people 1-shotting people in cyrodiil with abilities and ruining the game for new and more casual players who didn't exploit some mechanics to get ahead.

Magus

My other more controversial idea is to make enlightenment 24/7 for subscribers and then sell XP potions in the crown store that will give enlightenment until it wears off, so non-subscribers can get it too if they choose not to subscribe.

Faugaun

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153432/suggestion-competition-server#latest

I think changing it up monthly to give different constraints makes more sense

Magus

Faugaun wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153432/suggestion-competition-server#latest

I think changing it up monthly to give different constraints makes more sense

Interesting idea, playing with templates definitely makes it balanced but I'd prefer to your own character, with your own gear, to level your own alliance rank. Scaling CS up makes sense for balancing but there is still an incentive and advantage of being a vet over someone new but it's not game breaking.

Xjcon

While you are at it why don't you put anyone who ports to Cyrodiil a Vet 14 with max skill points.....

Magus

Xjcon wrote: »

While you are at it why don't you put anyone who ports to Cyrodiil a Vet 14 with max skill points.....

No. No abilities leveled, no skill points, no alliance war passives, no gear. If you just buy the game, get to level 10 and walk in even with 3600 CP vs VR14 fully geared with combat frenzy and 3600 CPs you will not last.

Enodoc

It may be easier for the system to implement the reverse; ie, all Champion passives are disabled in Cyrodiil.

Arundo

Enodoc wrote: »

It may be easier for the system to implement the reverse; ie, all Champion passives are disabled in Cyrodiil.

This really, levels the playing field for all. Good solution.

Rune_Relic

Battle leveling CP + Level for 1-50 and 50+ campaigns
No objection

Phinix1

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Battle leveling CP + Level for 1-50 and 50+ campaigns
No objection

100% agree as well.

PVP should be about skilled competition, may the best man (or woman) win, not "I cheat/grind the same mobs until I run out of energy drinks to stroke an unfair advantage like it was the same as skill."

ZOS, make it so.

Magus

It is pretty clear that the impact that the CP system would have on PVP is an afterthought, and if they made the CS system irrelevant/balanced to Cyrodiil by scaling, then it would solve most of the CP grinding issues.

Attorneyatlawl

Absolutely horrible idea, and I don't say that very often. MMORPG's are meant to offer progression, and after almost a year of having little meaning to PVP on a personal basis other than fun (yes, alliance points but they are largely unrewarding being useful only for a handful of good gear items that don't fit in many builds anyways, and you can max out the alliance war skill lines in under 1/10th of the alliance rank 50 points requirement), the champion point system promises to add some actual rewards for earning exp out there and in other game activities.

Cyrodiil hasn't seen any real additions since launch, so the champion system is a very welcome change even being game-wide. The only thing they need to do is significantly raise the exp you gain from PVP gameplay to make it more competitive with other ways you can gain it in ESO.

kongkim

PVP do not always need to be fair.

McDoogs

Brutally bad ideas in here.

Also, before you present a solution you should probably make a passing effort at proving that there is a problem. As far as I can tell, you are saying that the fact that there is character progression in ESO is the problem?

Magus

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Absolutely horrible idea, and I don't say that very often. MMORPG's are meant to offer progression, and after almost a year of having little meaning to PVP on a personal basis other than fun (yes, alliance points but they are largely unrewarding being useful only for a handful of good gear items that don't fit in many builds anyways, and you can max out the alliance war skill lines in under 1/10th of the alliance rank 50 points requirement), the champion point system promises to add some actual rewards for earning exp out there and in other game activities.

Cyrodiil hasn't seen any real additions since launch, so the champion system is a very welcome change even being game-wide. The only thing they need to do is significantly raise the exp you gain from PVP gameplay to make it more competitive with other ways you can gain it in ESO.

I would agree with adding XP for cyrodiil. As it is now, you have to go grind CS instead of actually PVPing. If you go to a campaign other than Thornblade, the PVP population has decreased greatly. Most of the pop is actually on there doing PVE where as before you could find some great fights.

They don't have to make any changes, but if they do, do you really think the PVP population will be sustained when the majority do not stand a chance against players with twice their stats in every way with new passives they will never attain before they quit the game and move on?

I would say battle scale CS for cyrodiil, and they should add arenas. Have CS points matter for ranked arenas weekly/monthly/whatever, and give out loot/mounts/titles/whatever for the top ranked teams. So, if you want your elite guild endgame content, that should be it instead of the coordinated rolling over noobs in cyrodiil that you have 2x the stats in every way.

Folkb

I don't like this idea because it feels like it'll remove any sense of customization that's suppose to be added while in the process of collecting CP points, but I do agree that the issue of power disparity will be a problem.

I also feel people's quick rebuttals of "progression" is a pretty weak argument.

Magus

McDoogs wrote: »

Brutally bad ideas in here.

Also, before you present a solution you should probably make a passing effort at proving that there is a problem. As far as I can tell, you are saying that the fact that there is character progression in ESO is the problem?

I am using critical thinking to point out that the current progression of the game is not sustainable. Right now, the difference is not huge. Go on PTS with some friends, use the template players, apply CS points and see how fast you roll the other person.

There should still be a difference in PVP but the CS will destroy the last remnants of PVP, the casuals will quit and then who will you be able to farm AP from? Unless you want Cyrodiil to be your personal arena where 2-3 guilds on each side fight each other with the same stack on crown gameplay and nobody else is in zone.

The difference should be your gear, your undaunted passives, your alliance war passives, and your player skill NOT that you discovered the best grind spot and spent most of your game time there and/or have a bugged enlightenment. I loved this game because you could play 3-5 hours a night and remain competitive and I could use almost all of my time doing PVP. If you want to remain long term competitive, that is not an option anymore so after going to work all day, ESO is just more work now.

washlov

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Absolutely horrible idea, and I don't say that very often. MMORPG's are meant to offer progression, and after almost a year of having little meaning to PVP on a personal basis other than fun (yes, alliance points but they are largely unrewarding being useful only for a handful of good gear items that don't fit in many builds anyways, and you can max out the alliance war skill lines in under 1/10th of the alliance rank 50 points requirement), the champion point system promises to add some actual rewards for earning exp out there and in other game activities.

Cyrodiil hasn't seen any real additions since launch, so the champion system is a very welcome change even being game-wide. The only thing they need to do is significantly raise the exp you gain from PVP gameplay to make it more competitive with other ways you can gain it in ESO.

the champion system destroys competitive PvP and makes it to a china farming pvp
every char gets the same stats over time so its only a time sink and will separate 24/7 players and casuals
shure pvp not always have to be fair but this system is only good for nolifers and xp potion buyers

Magus

Folkb wrote: »

I don't like this idea because it feels like it'll remove any sense of customization that's suppose to be added while in the process of collecting CP points, but I do agree that the issue of power disparity will be a problem.

I also feel people's quick rebuttals of "progression" is a pretty weak argument.

Fair point and I added in another comment that ZOS should add ranked arenas, and that the CS points should matter in those and it should not be scaled up. That way elite guilds can look at the leaderboard and be happy with themselves and get some loot and regular PVP can remain balanced and sustainable over the long haul. Both sides would win and everyone shouldn't feel like they need to grind CP anymore because you don't need to participate in arenas. They would be mainly for guild bragging rights unless you are a brave pug that wants to get rolled by coordinated groups in TS.

Armitas

This thread should be moved to the PvP section as it immediately effects them.

Attorneyatlawl

Magus wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Absolutely horrible idea, and I don't say that very often. MMORPG's are meant to offer progression, and after almost a year of having little meaning to PVP on a personal basis other than fun (yes, alliance points but they are largely unrewarding being useful only for a handful of good gear items that don't fit in many builds anyways, and you can max out the alliance war skill lines in under 1/10th of the alliance rank 50 points requirement), the champion point system promises to add some actual rewards for earning exp out there and in other game activities.

Cyrodiil hasn't seen any real additions since launch, so the champion system is a very welcome change even being game-wide. The only thing they need to do is significantly raise the exp you gain from PVP gameplay to make it more competitive with other ways you can gain it in ESO.

I would agree with adding XP for cyrodiil. As it is now, you have to go grind CS instead of actually PVPing. If you go to a campaign other than Thornblade, the PVP population has decreased greatly. Most of the pop is actually on there doing PVE where as before you could find some great fights.

They don't have to make any changes, but if they do, do you really think the PVP population will be sustained when the majority do not stand a chance against players with twice their stats in every way with new passives they will never attain before they quit the game and move on?

I would say battle scale CS for cyrodiil, and they should add arenas. Have CS points matter for ranked arenas weekly/monthly/whatever, and give out loot/mounts/titles/whatever for the top ranked teams. So, if you want your elite guild endgame content, that should be it instead of the coordinated rolling over noobs in cyrodiil that you have 2x the stats in every way.

Your complaint then isn't with the champion system itself but just how it scales across higher numbers of points. Segregating PVE and PVP by making one of the major systems of the game only apply to PVE for earning/using it would be harmful in a variety of ways, including (but not limited to) forcing people to make wildly different pve and pvp builds/gear/setups due to the difference and telling anyone in PVP (or PVE) that wants to go play in the other for a few "Your progress was meaningless, it has nothing of use for you here."

Attorneyatlawl

Magus wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

Brutally bad ideas in here.

Also, before you present a solution you should probably make a passing effort at proving that there is a problem. As far as I can tell, you are saying that the fact that there is character progression in ESO is the problem?

I am using critical thinking to point out that the current progression of the game is not sustainable. Right now, the difference is not huge. Go on PTS with some friends, use the template players, apply CS points and see how fast you roll the other person.

There should still be a difference in PVP but the CS will destroy the last remnants of PVP, the casuals will quit and then who will you be able to farm AP from? Unless you want Cyrodiil to be your personal arena where 2-3 guilds on each side fight each other with the same stack on crown gameplay and nobody else is in zone.

The difference should be your gear, your undaunted passives, your alliance war passives, and your player skill NOT that you discovered the best grind spot and spent most of your game time there and/or have a bugged enlightenment. I loved this game because you could play 3-5 hours a night and remain competitive and I could use almost all of my time doing PVP. If you want to remain long term competitive, that is not an option anymore so after going to work all day, ESO is just more work now.

I dueled people who later told me they had 3600 points applied after asking, when I had only done 95 to emulate what I would have soon after the 1.6 patch went live, and won. Yes, the champion system grants some power, yes it could use to be more bottom-heavy on the scaling, but no, it is hardly the end-all be-all compared to gear, build, skill setup, positioning, interrupts/blocks/dodge rolls of specific attacks, and player skill in general.

Magus

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Your complaint then isn't with the champion system itself but just how it scales across higher numbers of points. Segregating PVE and PVP by making one of the major systems of the game only apply to PVE for earning/using it would be harmful in a variety of ways, including (but not limited to) forcing people to make wildly different pve and pvp builds/gear/setups due to the difference and telling anyone in PVP (or PVE) that wants to go play in the other for a few "Your progress was meaningless, it has nothing of use for you here."

To an extent, I would agree with that. You should use different gear for PVE and PVP. In 1.5, you could easily swap between stamina and magicka builds just by swapping gear. With the CS, you have to spec into one or the other now, not fond of that change but it's ok. If you did the scaling for PVP, how you put your CS points for PVE wouldn't matter, so any PVEr could go PVP. Exception would be if they did my arenas idea where the CS points were used there, but yeah right... we wouldn't see arenas for months anyway if ever.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I dueled people who later told me they had 3600 points applied after asking, when I had only done 95 to emulate what I would have soon after the 1.6 patch went live, and won. Yes, the champion system grants some power, yes it could use to be more bottom-heavy on the scaling, but no, it is hardly the end-all be-all compared to gear, build, skill setup, positioning, interrupts/blocks/dodge rolls of specific attacks, and player skill in general.

I was less concerned with dueling. In 1.5, you could 1v1 an emperor and take him down. Especially if it was an emperor farmer. I was more concerned with the 20-40 man bomb groups having this augmented power because these are the people that would be doing the grinding by and large. If you want to grind CP so you can make some cool 1vX videos versus noobs that don't know what reflective scales are, what blazing shield is, or what a sap tank is, then ok I'm not concerned by that. 1 player with 3600 CP will be killable just like an emperor is easily killable.

Eh, I guess it's fine just don't like how ESO feels like work now and endless grind. I guess the biggest issue might be the adding health, etc for adding CS. Don't see why that is necessary.