AOE caps and PvP Lag

Huntler

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

Iyas

Is the aoe cap gone? Nope now there is a more difficult calculation. 6 nearest enemies full DMG etc, then 75% DMG and so on.

So im not surprised

yodased

You should 100% do that, @huntler. Then enjoy your vacation.

Huntler

yodased wrote: »

You should 100% do that, @huntler. Then enjoy your vacation.

Heh, wouldn't be the first time

Iyas wrote: »

Is the aoe cap gone? Nope now there is a more difficult calculation. 6 nearest enemies full DMG etc, then 75% DMG and so on.

So im not surprised

You realize regardless of the cap (my point) or if there was no cap at all, you would always have these kinds of calculations, likely even more.

Panda244

yodased wrote: »

You should 100% do that, @huntler. Then enjoy your vacation.

I've been on vacation twice, once for seven days, and once for three... Suppose a third vacation won't hurt

Xsorus

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

Huntler

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

How can you possibly come to any conclusion on that? The lag is still there, the same stuff is happening.

Roechacca

AOE caps were lifted ? News to me ..

Xsorus

Huntler wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

How can you possibly come to any conclusion on that? The lag is still there, the same stuff is happening.

Because i'm not seeing any Zerg Balls, and this lag allows weird things to happen....For example..before when Zerg balls were spamming any ability I could basically run up and do nothing but maybe spam light attacks on the target..nothing would go off.

However with this lag, I can run up to a large group and spam Flawless Dawnbreaker 50+ times and watch it do damage over and over again before it eventually gets used up.

Its very weird... I've not tried putting down Siege yet to see if that's comparable.... But I have a feeling its a new ability that's causing it.

Huntler

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

How can you possibly come to any conclusion on that? The lag is still there, the same stuff is happening.

Because i'm not seeing any Zerg Balls, and this lag allows weird things to happen....For example..before when Zerg balls were spamming any ability I could basically run up and do nothing but maybe spam light attacks on the target..nothing would go off.

However with this lag, I can run up to a large group and spam Flawless Dawnbreaker 50+ times and watch it do damage over and over again before it eventually gets used up.

Its very weird... I've not tried putting down Siege yet to see if that's comparable.... But I have a feeling its a new ability that's causing it.

Its the same effect, the ultimate spam is a different bug entirely. With testing we've been having it happen outside of lag situations also so it is not necessarily tied with the lag. In essence what I am seeing is the same lag, damage still shows but up not registering until later where then everyone explodes (as before), and siege is still not working... atleast for me.

Draxys

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

How can you possibly come to any conclusion on that? The lag is still there, the same stuff is happening.

Because i'm not seeing any Zerg Balls, and this lag allows weird things to happen....For example..before when Zerg balls were spamming any ability I could basically run up and do nothing but maybe spam light attacks on the target..nothing would go off.

However with this lag, I can run up to a large group and spam Flawless Dawnbreaker 50+ times and watch it do damage over and over again before it eventually gets used up.

Its very weird... I've not tried putting down Siege yet to see if that's comparable.... But I have a feeling its a new ability that's causing it.

So we have a completely reconstructed game, experience intense lag, and you decipher that it's a new ability...

Huntler

Draxys wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

How can you possibly come to any conclusion on that? The lag is still there, the same stuff is happening.

Because i'm not seeing any Zerg Balls, and this lag allows weird things to happen....For example..before when Zerg balls were spamming any ability I could basically run up and do nothing but maybe spam light attacks on the target..nothing would go off.

However with this lag, I can run up to a large group and spam Flawless Dawnbreaker 50+ times and watch it do damage over and over again before it eventually gets used up.

Its very weird... I've not tried putting down Siege yet to see if that's comparable.... But I have a feeling its a new ability that's causing it.

So we have a completely reconstructed game, experience intense lag, and you decipher that it's a new ability...

Glad I wasn't the only one who had a wtf moment...

TheBull

ZOS can do nothing to stop that nerdy EP zerg guild from finding a way to lag.

Xiphyla

Maybe the calculation make the server even more lag. Shouldnt even have AOE caps in first place. Total removal = best solution.

yodased

What calculation? You mean the Derivative math required to determine how many people are around and change % damage and effect on them?

uhm, not really. A desktop with a quad-core and 32gb of ddr3 could handle that.

Its the actual rendering of individual particle effects at a massive rate which is causing the issue. It has to be. Their network engineers must agree because they are limiting particle effects as well as individual tracked assets (see bugs and deer).

Making the game pretty is causing the lag.

If they forced perspective at 800x600 30fps at low settings, you would be able to have > 1,000 people in the game. They are sacrificing quantity for quality.

k2blader

What Iyas said. Also, people thought lag would get better? :-P

Tankqull

roechacca wrote: »

AOE caps were lifted ? News to me ..

they should be but surprisingly im allways only hitting 6 targets max with my aes regardless of the number of players in the ae area...

Huntler

Tankqull wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

AOE caps were lifted ? News to me ..

they should be but surprisingly im allways only hitting 6 targets max with my aes regardless of the number of players in the ae area...

You sure its not your addon? I'm hitting way more than 6 people...

olsborg

EU thornblade is Nono-land. Instantly enter and 300+ lagg, spiking to 700 here and there.

Tankqull

Huntler wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

AOE caps were lifted ? News to me ..

they should be but surprisingly im allways only hitting 6 targets max with my aes regardless of the number of players in the ae area...

You sure its not your addon? I'm hitting way more than 6 people...

CLS should track attacks properly

Xsorus

Draxys wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

How can you possibly come to any conclusion on that? The lag is still there, the same stuff is happening.

Because i'm not seeing any Zerg Balls, and this lag allows weird things to happen....For example..before when Zerg balls were spamming any ability I could basically run up and do nothing but maybe spam light attacks on the target..nothing would go off.

However with this lag, I can run up to a large group and spam Flawless Dawnbreaker 50+ times and watch it do damage over and over again before it eventually gets used up.

Its very weird... I've not tried putting down Siege yet to see if that's comparable.... But I have a feeling its a new ability that's causing it.

So we have a completely reconstructed game, experience intense lag, and you decipher that it's a new ability...

Yes, when the lag is different from how it was. I'm betting you it has to do with a new ability..and i bet you thats what ZoS is going to say when they figure out whats causing it.

Rune_Relic

Lag isnt just in Cyrodiil. Though I am having some really weird bugs...

1. Attacking 2x crocodiles..... 1 of them I can shield bash the other I cant. This happended with more than one skill.
2. Targetting...I will hit something with red highlight....suddenly I hit but swing and miss.....the red highight has vanished (although it made 2-3 hits fine and nothing moved). Cant damage target until the highlight returns....2-3 seconds later. Its almost like the NPCs are on a cooldown where they cant be damaged ?!?!?

I have never experienced anything like this before. Havent even got into PVP land yet lol.

Beginning to wonder if there is some kind of Phase overflow/leakage.

WebBull

Huntler wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Remember when all you armchair developers said that lifting the aoe cap would immediately fix the lag problem? Yeah. Don't make me go through the post history and call all of you out.

in relation to stacking it has, As for whats causing the current lag is completely unknown.

I'm betting its one of the new abilities added.

How can you possibly come to any conclusion on that? The lag is still there, the same stuff is happening.

Because i'm not seeing any Zerg Balls, and this lag allows weird things to happen....For example..before when Zerg balls were spamming any ability I could basically run up and do nothing but maybe spam light attacks on the target..nothing would go off.

However with this lag, I can run up to a large group and spam Flawless Dawnbreaker 50+ times and watch it do damage over and over again before it eventually gets used up.

Its very weird... I've not tried putting down Siege yet to see if that's comparable.... But I have a feeling its a new ability that's causing it.

So we have a completely reconstructed game, experience intense lag, and you decipher that it's a new ability...

Glad I wasn't the only one who had a wtf moment...

Same could be said for assuming that the lag is related to the removal of AoE caps when 100's of things in the game changed

glak

Once the server hits a timeout involving an AoE calculation, it's scrollback time!

Xiphyla wrote: »

Maybe the calculation make the server even more lag. Shouldnt even have AOE caps in first place. Total removal = best solution.

yodased wrote: »

What calculation? You mean the Derivative math required to determine how many people are around and change % damage and effect on them?

uhm, not really. A desktop with a quad-core and 32gb of ddr3 could handle that.

Its the actual rendering of individual particle effects at a massive rate which is causing the issue. It has to be. Their network engineers must agree because they are limiting particle effects as well as individual tracked assets (see bugs and deer).

Making the game pretty is causing the lag.

If they forced perspective at 800x600 30fps at low settings, you would be able to have > 1,000 people in the game. They are sacrificing quantity for quality.

agreed that pretty game is pretty hate.

I thought it was the server's responsibility for the damage calculation on each player, though.
The server sorts by proximity the list of players who gets the damage and tells the players' clients what to do, sync health, etc. Now you know why the health sync problem exists. And now the server has to go through more logic per player to determine how much % damage should be given and build lists of who it picked for what radius.

That sort by proximity is going to be there even without the AoE caps because every AoE has a radius. But what would not be there is the building of separate lists of 100% damage, 50%, etc.based off of the first sorted list. GG, now we're slinging around more arrays of character ids in the server.

kijima

SAP ESSENCE

I'll just leave ^ here

Draxys

yodased wrote: »

Making the game pretty is causing the lag.

Story of ESO pvp

hammayolettuce

Tankqull wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

AOE caps were lifted ? News to me ..

they should be but surprisingly im allways only hitting 6 targets max with my aes regardless of the number of players in the ae area...

From the patch notes:

Removed hard caps on the number of targets that can be affected by area of effect abilities.

• AoE abilities can now hit up to 60 targets; the first 6 will take 100% damage, the next 24 targets will take 50% damage, and the last 30 targets will take 25% damage.
• Abilities that apply a secondary effect, such as Dark Talons, will only immobilize the first 6 targets who take damage.

Now, I haven't been PvPing much since I've been leveling my templar, but this appears to be working properly while grinding mobs...

Rune_Relic

glak wrote: »

Once the server hits a timeout involving an AoE calculation, it's scrollback time!

Xiphyla wrote: »

Maybe the calculation make the server even more lag. Shouldnt even have AOE caps in first place. Total removal = best solution.

yodased wrote: »

What calculation? You mean the Derivative math required to determine how many people are around and change % damage and effect on them?

uhm, not really. A desktop with a quad-core and 32gb of ddr3 could handle that.

Its the actual rendering of individual particle effects at a massive rate which is causing the issue. It has to be. Their network engineers must agree because they are limiting particle effects as well as individual tracked assets (see bugs and deer).

Making the game pretty is causing the lag.

If they forced perspective at 800x600 30fps at low settings, you would be able to have > 1,000 people in the game. They are sacrificing quantity for quality.

agreed that pretty game is pretty hate.

I thought it was the server's responsibility for the damage calculation on each player, though.
The server sorts by proximity the list of players who gets the damage and tells the players' clients what to do, sync health, etc. Now you know why the health sync problem exists. And now the server has to go through more logic per player to determine how much % damage should be given and build lists of who it picked for what radius.

That sort by proximity is going to be there even without the AoE caps because every AoE has a radius. But what would not be there is the building of separate lists of 100% damage, 50%, etc.based off of the first sorted list. GG, now we're slinging around more arrays of character ids in the server.

Except if you had CD to force players apart ..you could limit the amount of players in the radius that have to be sorted through anyway. At the moment you could have 100+ people standing in exactly the same spot of 100 other aoe. Surprised the serve doesnt just shout "STUFF YOU" pick up it coat and walk out. Although its had a few tantrums.

I wonder how many layers of If/case statements they have lol.

Tankqull

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

AOE caps were lifted ? News to me ..

they should be but surprisingly im allways only hitting 6 targets max with my aes regardless of the number of players in the ae area...

From the patch notes:

Removed hard caps on the number of targets that can be affected by area of effect abilities.

• AoE abilities can now hit up to 60 targets; the first 6 will take 100% damage, the next 24 targets will take 50% damage, and the last 30 targets will take 25% damage.
• Abilities that apply a secondary effect, such as Dark Talons, will only immobilize the first 6 targets who take damage.

Now, I haven't been PvPing much since I've been leveling my templar, but this appears to be working properly while grinding mobs...

in pve i have no issues, in pvp i get a max of 6 targets being hited by my aes (might be a sorc problem no idea but doubt that) castet a velocious curse on a group of 12 players(counted them when i was dead and them spread out to kill realm mebers) stack piling behind a tree waiting for their preys its explosion hits 6 targets.

Draxys

Tankqull wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

AOE caps were lifted ? News to me ..

they should be but surprisingly im allways only hitting 6 targets max with my aes regardless of the number of players in the ae area...

From the patch notes:

Removed hard caps on the number of targets that can be affected by area of effect abilities.

• AoE abilities can now hit up to 60 targets; the first 6 will take 100% damage, the next 24 targets will take 50% damage, and the last 30 targets will take 25% damage.
• Abilities that apply a secondary effect, such as Dark Talons, will only immobilize the first 6 targets who take damage.

Now, I haven't been PvPing much since I've been leveling my templar, but this appears to be working properly while grinding mobs...

in pve i have no issues, in pvp i get a max of 6 targets being hited by my aes (might be a sorc problem no idea but doubt that) castet a velocious curse on a group of 12 players(counted them when i was dead and them spread out to kill realm mebers) stack piling behind a tree waiting for their preys its explosion hits 6 targets.

they could have been out of range

Majeure

yodased wrote: »

What calculation? You mean the Derivative math required to determine how many people are around and change % damage and effect on them?

uhm, not really. A desktop with a quad-core and 32gb of ddr3 could handle that.

Its the actual rendering of individual particle effects at a massive rate which is causing the issue. It has to be. Their network engineers must agree because they are limiting particle effects as well as individual tracked assets (see bugs and deer).

Making the game pretty is causing the lag.

If they forced perspective at 800x600 30fps at low settings, you would be able to have > 1,000 people in the game. They are sacrificing quantity for quality.

What has rendering particle effects got to do with network/server lag? That should all be handled on the client-side when the server reports to each client present which unit used "this" skill on "what" target, no? Particles are only GFX rendered and created by the game engine using the GPU and whatever graphical assets are associated with each skill, there would be no sense in actually transmitting information about each particle over the network whatsoever... so in conclusion if what you say is what's really happening, then the whole effects design is just extremely flawed from the get go.

That said, the lags seem even worse than before on EU Thornblade at prime time, and it seems as though it's not just PvP, but Justice System and such is partly affected too with desynchronized AI pathing and huge jumps in latency, though some of that could be a separate issue altogether.