Girlfriend's Reaction to ESO: Game too Easy

spoqster

Sharee wrote: »

Why didn't you just take her to a higher level area if you wanted more challenging fights? Two level 8's would find Stormhaven pretty challenging, i think. Or Bad man's hallows in Glenumbra, its not higher level but plenty of bosses and it's a bit out of the way so not crowded usually.

(assuming DC of course, if you are in a different faction change places accordingly)

We did that. I mentioned that in the OP. Most bosses were not spawned and in the boss fights we did get to do, we were ambushed by other players.

Sharee

spoqster wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Why didn't you just take her to a higher level area if you wanted more challenging fights? Two level 8's would find Stormhaven pretty challenging, i think. Or Bad man's hallows in Glenumbra, its not higher level but plenty of bosses and it's a bit out of the way so not crowded usually.

(assuming DC of course, if you are in a different faction change places accordingly)

We did that. I mentioned that in the OP. Most bosses were not spawned and in the boss fights we did get to do, we were ambushed by other players.

Ah. I misunderstood, i thought you meant a normal delve (those tend to have the boss constantly down).

But the option of going to a higher level zone still remains. I did this as well way back when i was a lowbie, after rivenspire i skipped alik'r desert completely (even tho it was the zone of my level) and went straight to bangkorai to make the encounters more challenging. Only downside was the quest rewards were useless (over my level) but i didn't mind since i was always crafting my equipment anyway.

Mathius_Mordred

My 2 pence worth, immersion is directly proportional to your own imagination. I can spend a lot of time just:

• wandering around looking at the scenery
• trying to climb to the highest peaks (frustratingly locked off in most places)
• searching out hidden enclaves (future player housing?)
• admiring the architecture in different towns from many different angles
• admiring the awesome statues and ruins all over the place
• swimming out to boats to see if I can get on-board before the slaughter fish see me
• spending an afternoon in the woods collecting alchemy ingredients
• finding awesome spots for taking screenshots
• spending way too long dying my armour
• watching the sunset over Mistral whilst listening to Malukah singing on the balcony
• exploring the coastline for treasure boxes

and so on. I find ESO highly immersive, but immersion is a subjective and personal concept, perhaps much of the above is meaningless to many playing, I hope not but I suspect so especially in the younger players. At my age, 50, I take my time and appreciate the beauty that the exceptionally talented artists have created for me to explore. And if the weather is nice IRL I go out and do the same in my local Derbyshire Dales where fortunately the spiders are not quite as large and I don't often run into blood fiends

JD2013

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

My 2 pence worth, immersion is directly proportional to your own imagination. I can spend a lot of time just:

• wandering around looking at the scenery
• trying to climb to the highest peaks (frustratingly locked off in most places)
• searching out hidden enclaves (future player housing?)
• admiring the architecture in different towns from many different angles
• admiring the awesome statues and ruins all over the place
• swimming out to boats to see if I can get on-board before the slaughter fish see me
• spending an afternoon in the woods collecting alchemy ingredients
• finding awesome spots for taking screenshots
• spending way too long dying my armour
• watching the sunset over Mistral whilst listening to Malukah singing on the balcony
• exploring the coastline for treasure boxes

and so on. I find ESO highly immersive, but immersion is a subjective and personal concept, perhaps much of the above is meaningless to many playing, I hope not but I suspect so especially in the younger players. At my age, 50, I take my time and appreciate the beauty that the exceptionally talented artists have created for me to explore. And if the weather is nice IRL I go out and do the same in my local Derbyshire Dales where fortunately the spiders are not quite as large and I don't often run into blood fiends

I find exactly the same. I can waste hours in the game doing no fighting or questing.

and I live near the Derbyshire Dales too! So beautiful!

starkerealm

Atirez wrote: »

14 hours! Is that for real? I have played more than that on one character this weekend and only went from 20 to 33. Spent around 1 hour alone in the Halls of the Dead (grouped with 1 random). And even now I feel like I have been speed clicking quest text and feel I am missing out.

Most likely? Yeah. You can earn a lot from kill XP if you find high density areas and farm them out for a couple hours. Is it fun? Not for me, but some people go for that.

Sacadon

spoqster wrote: »

Some background info: I am a casual gamer. It took me 6 months to get my main to vr14, playing only that one character. With a demanding job and a relationship I usually only get to play a few hours a week, but sometimes I take a day of to play because it is a great way for me to relax.

Prob first time this game ever screened a casual gamer.

Rosveen

Dazin93 wrote: »

mandrakethebard_ESO wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

I'm curious what exactly it is you find immersive in ESO? Is it the 1-50 experience that you can complete in 14hrs, the VR levels that make no sense from a lore/role playing perspective, or perhaps the AFK master crafting system? Playing with others can be immersive, but that is just a byproduct of any communal game; the game itself doesn't create that.

No problem. Here's what I find immersive.
(1) A large world that can be explored in detail.
(2) A wide variety of NPCs spread out over the world and linked by relationships, storylines, and also shared and related experiences.
(3) A world that is responsive to my actions. When I do quest content, my actions have consequences and change the nature of areas, enemies, and the reactions of NPCs.
(4) A PvP campaign that is intricate, engaging, and is in fact the only PvP I have ever really enjoyed (despite some rather obnoxious zerging, you know who you are).
(5) Tons of things to do that have nothing to do with fighting.
(6) Most importantly, an endless variety of people and places that have absolutely nothing to do with quests or advancement.

What annoys me is people who seem convinced that the only content that matters is content that is directly related to their progress. I feel precisely the opposite, that it is the richness of the world outside of levels and advancement that makes this game so much fun.

As to your "complete in 14 hours" (avoid being insulting, 'drake, do it) idea, that is precisely the sort of gameplay that I find boring, meaningless, and annoying. If I were a person who chose to play as you do, I have no doubt that I could complete the "game" just as quickly. Instead, the reality is that it took me months to level my first primary character to VR levels. Not because I was slow, not because I was weak, but because I was actually playing the game..... plus I have a life, so I don't have 10 hours a day to waste on just a game.

Cheers.

I surely never went 1-50 in 14 hrs and never said I did, just that it can be done so I think your misunderstanding me. I'm glad you find ESO immersive, but all those things you listed could apply to any generic MMO which leads me to believe you either love all MMOs or haven't truly played that many.

Morrowind's main quest can be speedrun in 4 minutes. I don't think it's fair to judge a game by how fast you can move through it using meta-gamey shortcuts and/or exploits. You're not going to reach 50 in 14 hours as a first time player unless you set out to do just that (like that guy on launch day, carried by his guild - and even then they used knowledge gained during beta). Doing it requires a very specific playstyle most people wouldn't attempt even if they knew how.

RainfeatherUK

I'm usually more than open to accepting the varying degrees of player skill that people have; and thus accept not everyone finds everything equally easy - or difficult.

That said I feel like it often gets pushed to a point of the ridiculous.

Taking a story of my own into account; I recall one of my junior instructors frowning at one persons inability to fry an egg (was a sort of deployed/field survival exercise).

She turned (being quite tired) and announced ''not everyone is a masterchef''

to the natural reply 'its an egg, not a four course meal at the hilton'

Using the varying skill argument, its my feeling that people use it to justify a almost unbelievable amount of inability. If you cant handle basic computer imput and gaming functions because of age or disability, thats one thing.

But in an environment where computers are mostly the norm, and the people around you likely frequent games or use a pc for work (after all how and why are you even trying eso at all, if you have zero awareness of what an mmo/pc game is?); well how do people honestly find this game a challenge? or in places acceptable.

Again I'll reiterate that I understand not everyone is equal. Its just that it comes a point, where if you cant carry out a very simple rotation of actions and imputs then you have alot more issues than a simple game.

I myself have played games a long time (so I take account of my experience and exclude myself). Yet when, like me, you have young chldren with little gaming experience around - and a flatmate who has only ever trifled briefly with consoles ten years ago - coming in and facerolling content, asking ''is it all a cakewalk like this?', you can only really hang your head in despair.

I believe in making space for all walks of gamer, but not at the complete removal of challenge for anyone with experience or capability. It is to be frank, extremely boring and is an exclusion of an entire demographic - not a consideration for all of them, as it should be.

spoqster

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

My 2 pence worth, immersion is directly proportional to your own imagination. I can spend a lot of time just:

• wandering around looking at the scenery
• trying to climb to the highest peaks (frustratingly locked off in most places)
• searching out hidden enclaves (future player housing?)
• admiring the architecture in different towns from many different angles
• admiring the awesome statues and ruins all over the place
• swimming out to boats to see if I can get on-board before the slaughter fish see me
• spending an afternoon in the woods collecting alchemy ingredients
• finding awesome spots for taking screenshots
• spending way too long dying my armour
• watching the sunset over Mistral whilst listening to Malukah singing on the balcony
• exploring the coastline for treasure boxes

and so on. I find ESO highly immersive, but immersion is a subjective and personal concept, perhaps much of the above is meaningless to many playing, I hope not but I suspect so especially in the younger players. At my age, 50, I take my time and appreciate the beauty that the exceptionally talented artists have created for me to explore. And if the weather is nice IRL I go out and do the same in my local Derbyshire Dales where fortunately the spiders are not quite as large and I don't often run into blood fiends

Nice comment! I love thede things as well, although I don't do it that much. Now here's the rub: While all of the things you mention help generating immersion, the quests actually break it.

And here is why: Let's say you spend 45 minutes following a quest arc. You're involved immersed and you devote 45 minutes of your life to defeat that one bad guy, the boss that is behind all the problems, the one guy that every npc goes on and on about. You are immersed in the story and welfare of the zone you are in, because that is what good storytelling is about. And then you finally encounter the boss, that moment you have been working for is there. And what happens? There is no dialogue, no cutscene, no decision to make - you just run up to the boss, he attacks you and you faceroll him into the floor.

spoqster

Sharee wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Why didn't you just take her to a higher level area if you wanted more challenging fights? Two level 8's would find Stormhaven pretty challenging, i think. Or Bad man's hallows in Glenumbra, its not higher level but plenty of bosses and it's a bit out of the way so not crowded usually.

(assuming DC of course, if you are in a different faction change places accordingly)

We did that. I mentioned that in the OP. Most bosses were not spawned and in the boss fights we did get to do, we were ambushed by other players.

Ah. I misunderstood, i thought you meant a normal delve (those tend to have the boss constantly down).

But the option of going to a higher level zone still remains. I did this as well way back when i was a lowbie, after rivenspire i skipped alik'r desert completely (even tho it was the zone of my level) and went straight to bangkorai to make the encounters more challenging. Only downside was the quest rewards were useless (over my level) but i didn't mind since i was always crafting my equipment anyway.

Yes I can do that, in fact I did it with another friend on another character. We skipped ahead until we finally ended up doing the Coldharbor Public Dungeon at level 36.

Then we decided we wanted to experience at least the main storyline in every zone and get those skill points. So we came back being 5-10 levels over level. That emresulted in a terrible experience.

The problem is in this game that you don't really have a choice of when to do specific quests. There are always around 5 quests in your level range, and if you don't do them right then, you'll have to forget about them or come back and be terribly over leveled.

Why do they spend millions on zone design, quest creation and voice acting, if you then have to skip half of it just so that you won't kill yourself half way through?

AlnilamE

I will second what others said about going to a higher level area. If it's the two of you playing together, go somewhere where mobs are at least 5 levels above you. Anything less is going to be too easy for two people.

Also, once you are level 10, delves in Cyrodiil are a nice challenge. The mobs there tend to respawn fairly quickly and there aren't many people in there.

As for "too many quest givers", that is an Elder Scrolls thing. Once you have played through the story once, you know how the system in ESO works and you can stay a bit more focused. I remember when I wanted to finish Silver because my friend was having a birthday event in the Public Dungeons in the Gold zone and I just worked my way through the main quests, and it tied the storyline of each zone together much better than if I had just gone about from place to place trying to get the whole map white.

Another thing you can do that is fun and challenging is to go into the Group dungeons with only 3 players.

Mathius_Mordred

spoqster wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

My 2 pence worth, immersion is directly proportional to your own imagination. I can spend a lot of time just:

• wandering around looking at the scenery
• trying to climb to the highest peaks (frustratingly locked off in most places)
• searching out hidden enclaves (future player housing?)
• admiring the architecture in different towns from many different angles
• admiring the awesome statues and ruins all over the place
• swimming out to boats to see if I can get on-board before the slaughter fish see me
• spending an afternoon in the woods collecting alchemy ingredients
• finding awesome spots for taking screenshots
• spending way too long dying my armour
• watching the sunset over Mistral whilst listening to Malukah singing on the balcony
• exploring the coastline for treasure boxes

and so on. I find ESO highly immersive, but immersion is a subjective and personal concept, perhaps much of the above is meaningless to many playing, I hope not but I suspect so especially in the younger players. At my age, 50, I take my time and appreciate the beauty that the exceptionally talented artists have created for me to explore. And if the weather is nice IRL I go out and do the same in my local Derbyshire Dales where fortunately the spiders are not quite as large and I don't often run into blood fiends

Nice comment! I love thede things as well, although I don't do it that much. Now here's the rub: While all of the things you mention help generating immersion, the quests actually break it.

And here is why: Let's say you spend 45 minutes following a quest arc. You're involved immersed and you devote 45 minutes of your life to defeat that one bad guy, the boss that is behind all the problems, the one guy that every npc goes on and on about. You are immersed in the story and welfare of the zone you are in, because that is what good storytelling is about. And then you finally encounter the boss, that moment you have been working for is there. And what happens? There is no dialogue, no cutscene, no decision to make - you just run up to the boss, he attacks you and you faceroll him into the floor.

Some of the bosses do have dialogue before they attack you but generally yes they can be a little easy, especially when you're into the vet areas by which time you've pretty much mastered your build. However once again I would say it's only immersion breaking if you let it be. As an existential self in game I know that I have unique and very special abilities, I am gifted with foresight, immense magical skills, superb swordsmanship, fantastic physical condition, the absolute pinnacle of armour and weaponry, to all intents and purposes I am a superman in this world and why I was chosen to fight Molag Bal and save Nirn from the planemeld.

With all that in mind it's hardly surprising that I can actually beat the average bad guy boss who whilst being a tougher fight than his minions is surely no planemeld breaker like me. I found this easier to imagine in Skyrim, after all I was the Dragonborn, people wait centuries for the Dragonborn to return, this concept is missing from ESO, you are the King's Champion, the Queen's Eye, the savoir of the Pact and all that but not universally recognised as some sort of superhero by the NPCs that kneel in admiration as you pass by. I think this aspect could be improved within ESO to tie up the lose ends in the immersion.

spoqster

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

My 2 pence worth, immersion is directly proportional to your own imagination. I can spend a lot of time just:

• wandering around looking at the scenery
• trying to climb to the highest peaks (frustratingly locked off in most places)
• searching out hidden enclaves (future player housing?)
• admiring the architecture in different towns from many different angles
• admiring the awesome statues and ruins all over the place
• swimming out to boats to see if I can get on-board before the slaughter fish see me
• spending an afternoon in the woods collecting alchemy ingredients
• finding awesome spots for taking screenshots
• spending way too long dying my armour
• watching the sunset over Mistral whilst listening to Malukah singing on the balcony
• exploring the coastline for treasure boxes

and so on. I find ESO highly immersive, but immersion is a subjective and personal concept, perhaps much of the above is meaningless to many playing, I hope not but I suspect so especially in the younger players. At my age, 50, I take my time and appreciate the beauty that the exceptionally talented artists have created for me to explore. And if the weather is nice IRL I go out and do the same in my local Derbyshire Dales where fortunately the spiders are not quite as large and I don't often run into blood fiends

Nice comment! I love thede things as well, although I don't do it that much. Now here's the rub: While all of the things you mention help generating immersion, the quests actually break it.

And here is why: Let's say you spend 45 minutes following a quest arc. You're involved immersed and you devote 45 minutes of your life to defeat that one bad guy, the boss that is behind all the problems, the one guy that every npc goes on and on about. You are immersed in the story and welfare of the zone you are in, because that is what good storytelling is about. And then you finally encounter the boss, that moment you have been working for is there. And what happens? There is no dialogue, no cutscene, no decision to make - you just run up to the boss, he attacks you and you faceroll him into the floor.

Some of the bosses do have dialogue before they attack you but generally yes they can be a little easy, especially when you're into the vet areas by which time you've pretty much mastered your build. However once again I would say it's only immersion breaking if you let it be. As an existential self in game I know that I have unique and very special abilities, I am gifted with foresight, immense magical skills, superb swordsmanship, fantastic physical condition, the absolute pinnacle of armour and weaponry, to all intents and purposes I am a superman in this world and why I was chosen to fight Molag Bal and save Nirn from the planemeld.

With all that in mind it's hardly surprising that I can actually beat the average bad guy boss who whilst being a tougher fight than his minions is surely no planemeld breaker like me. I found this easier to imagine in Skyrim, after all I was the Dragonborn, people wait centuries for the Dragonborn to return, this concept is missing from ESO, you are the King's Champion, the Queen's Eye, the savoir of the Pact and all that but not universally recognised as some sort of superhero by the NPCs that kneel in admiration as you pass by. I think this aspect could be improved within ESO to tie up the lose ends in the immersion.

I am not sure that works for me. It's hard to feel like you are that one superhero, if every other player in the game is also that one superhero. And then in Cyrodiil it's only superheroes! Yay!

Also, I don't need to be the superhero to be immersed. And the whole leveling process breaks it, too. So you beat the main villain in Glenumbra, that big sorcerer that subdues the whole area and revives pretty much every dead person in the zones, and you do so quite easily, and then you visit your friend three zones further and get eaten by a skeever?

Sorry, but unless they remove the level differences between the zones and make the game more challenging I will never be as immersed as I could be.

technohic

Newer content they might be essentially removing the level differences and scaling, but I don't see that for a while.

A lot has changed since the game launched. Think they made a couple passes at making things easier since then. Used to be some of the fighter guild and mages guild stuff was a little more challenging from solo play right at release, like the first bosses for those were tough. Not nearly so any more. And vet zones used to be harder, but they took frustration with progression speed as meaning people want it to be easier, and that was not the case for me.

Mathius_Mordred

spoqster wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

My 2 pence worth, immersion is directly proportional to your own imagination. I can spend a lot of time just:

• wandering around looking at the scenery
• trying to climb to the highest peaks (frustratingly locked off in most places)
• searching out hidden enclaves (future player housing?)
• admiring the architecture in different towns from many different angles
• admiring the awesome statues and ruins all over the place
• swimming out to boats to see if I can get on-board before the slaughter fish see me
• spending an afternoon in the woods collecting alchemy ingredients
• finding awesome spots for taking screenshots
• spending way too long dying my armour
• watching the sunset over Mistral whilst listening to Malukah singing on the balcony
• exploring the coastline for treasure boxes

and so on. I find ESO highly immersive, but immersion is a subjective and personal concept, perhaps much of the above is meaningless to many playing, I hope not but I suspect so especially in the younger players. At my age, 50, I take my time and appreciate the beauty that the exceptionally talented artists have created for me to explore. And if the weather is nice IRL I go out and do the same in my local Derbyshire Dales where fortunately the spiders are not quite as large and I don't often run into blood fiends

Nice comment! I love thede things as well, although I don't do it that much. Now here's the rub: While all of the things you mention help generating immersion, the quests actually break it.

And here is why: Let's say you spend 45 minutes following a quest arc. You're involved immersed and you devote 45 minutes of your life to defeat that one bad guy, the boss that is behind all the problems, the one guy that every npc goes on and on about. You are immersed in the story and welfare of the zone you are in, because that is what good storytelling is about. And then you finally encounter the boss, that moment you have been working for is there. And what happens? There is no dialogue, no cutscene, no decision to make - you just run up to the boss, he attacks you and you faceroll him into the floor.

Some of the bosses do have dialogue before they attack you but generally yes they can be a little easy, especially when you're into the vet areas by which time you've pretty much mastered your build. However once again I would say it's only immersion breaking if you let it be. As an existential self in game I know that I have unique and very special abilities, I am gifted with foresight, immense magical skills, superb swordsmanship, fantastic physical condition, the absolute pinnacle of armour and weaponry, to all intents and purposes I am a superman in this world and why I was chosen to fight Molag Bal and save Nirn from the planemeld.

With all that in mind it's hardly surprising that I can actually beat the average bad guy boss who whilst being a tougher fight than his minions is surely no planemeld breaker like me. I found this easier to imagine in Skyrim, after all I was the Dragonborn, people wait centuries for the Dragonborn to return, this concept is missing from ESO, you are the King's Champion, the Queen's Eye, the savoir of the Pact and all that but not universally recognised as some sort of superhero by the NPCs that kneel in admiration as you pass by. I think this aspect could be improved within ESO to tie up the lose ends in the immersion.

I am not sure that works for me. It's hard to feel like you are that one superhero, if every other player in the game is also that one superhero. And then in Cyrodiil it's only superheroes! Yay!

Aha but you see you are the only superhero in the game, it's all about you, you are the one that saved Nirn, nobody else, only you saved King Emeric, only you could have got the alliances to fight together and so on. If this were Skyrim online then only you would be Dragon Born. These other people you see around are just citizens living their daily lives, some of them will join you to help vanquish a masterful foe just as the Fighters Guild and the Mages Guild did to help defeat Molag Bal, they are other denizens of Tamriel but only you the superman. I would not really count Cyrodil because now this is all about your skill against other players, in the wider Tamriel there are no other players. That's the mindset to try and adopt if you want immersion, as I said at the start it's down to your imagination largely, your ability to 'let go' of the reality of the situation.

I used to feel like you did when I played Star Trek Online, people were writing to the forum saying how can there be so many fleet Admirals all over the place, it doesn't make any sense, but then this one guy wrote back with the comments I alluded to above, there is only one Fleet Admiral, you. When you look at it this way it all makes for a much more immersive experience. Works for me anyway

spoqster

technohic wrote: »

Newer content they might be essentially removing the level differences and scaling, but I don't see that for a while.

A lot has changed since the game launched. Think they made a couple passes at making things easier since then. Used to be some of the fighter guild and mages guild stuff was a little more challenging from solo play right at release, like the first bosses for those were tough. Not nearly so any more. And vet zones used to be harder, but they took frustration with progression speed as meaning people want it to be easier, and that was not the case for me.

I remember that first Clanfear boss in the Mages Guild quest line back at launch. I came to that area underequipped and out of potions. Boy that *** was hard to kill. I wiped around 20 times iirc. I had so much fun that day and I learned so much about playing. I so wish content was still like that.

I understand that people complain about progression speed because they want to get to endgame quickly. But those are the pvpers that don't care so much about progression. They want to play on the same level as everyone else. Just let them and create a campaign where everyone is equal, with the same level and an equal number of attribute and skill points. But nerfing the questing content is doubly wrong: You are ruining the experience for the questers while still not giving the progression complainers what they really want. It's like when your girl wants to get bigger boobs and you want her to keep smaller boobs, to do a compromise and just get one implant. That'll make no one happy.

firstdecan

AlnilamE wrote: »

I will second what others said about going to a higher level area. If it's the two of you playing together, go somewhere where mobs are at least 5 levels above you. Anything less is going to be too easy for two people.

Also, once you are level 10, delves in Cyrodiil are a nice challenge. The mobs there tend to respawn fairly quickly and there aren't many people in there.

As for "too many quest givers", that is an Elder Scrolls thing. Once you have played through the story once, you know how the system in ESO works and you can stay a bit more focused. I remember when I wanted to finish Silver because my friend was having a birthday event in the Public Dungeons in the Gold zone and I just worked my way through the main quests, and it tied the storyline of each zone together much better than if I had just gone about from place to place trying to get the whole map white.

Another thing you can do that is fun and challenging is to go into the Group dungeons with only 3 players.

THIS.

I realize this is an Elder Scrolls title with a lot of side quests, but all the side quests just become an alphabet soup of inconsequential names. It would be nice if they could (optionally) scale the player to the zone, the same way they do in Cyrodiil. Instead of scaling a player up, they could offer a player the option to scale down. Maybe also give the main quests slightly different compass \ map markers just to differentiate them.

Ultimately a small issue given other issues in the game, but the questing might be more enjoyable for some people if it was a little more linear with the ability to go back and do side quests, instead of having to deal with the mish mash of stories and alphabet soup of names.

Lord_Kreegan

It's a story-driven themepark, not a sandbox.

"Immersion" consists of click on the NPC with the white arrow above its head; click as rapidly as you can through the boring dialog that's fundamentally the same as all of the other boring dialogs; proceed from point A to point B on your map, killing stuff enroute; kill more stuff at point B to include a mini-boss; collect the item with the little white arrow above it or talk to the NPC with the white arrow above its head to either get the reward or receive the next step in the chain; rinse; repeat; yawn...

Sorry, ESO is not immersive unless you depart from the quest chains and just go out and explore, enjoying the scenery. The writing, especially as you get into the higher zones (which were almost certainly more rushed into production than the lower zones; all MMO companies do that), isn't all that great and the stories don't really grab you. Some of the zone story lines (Malabal Tor comes to mind) are really fractured.

And everything is really quite linear, typical of level-based games... which kills immersion.

It's not like Morrowind, for instance; in fairness, even the other single player RPGs that followed Morrowind got much more linear. There were a lot of compromises made to bring Elder Scrolls to the MMO environment.

Good, bad, or otherwise, don't let your girlfriend talk to my girlfriend... and definitely don't let her tell my wife. ;-)

[P.S. No, I do not have a girlfriend. Not at my age...]

newtinmpls

Dazin93 wrote: »

I'm curious what exactly it is you find immersive in ESO? Is it the 1-50 experience that you can complete in 14hrs.

14 hours? Are these the hours you would get if some other, larger, more slowly rotating planet had it's day chopped into 24 sections?

That just doesn't sound believable, and absolutely doesn't sound fun. I'm not just grinding levels, I'm exploring a beautiful world.

newtinmpls

This is going to be along, probably annoying post, (I will snip here and there, but it will be long) and I'll start by saying that obviously many of us have different tastes. I am attempting to explain mine, not recruit or convince. I'll also say that this is my first MMORG, Morrowind was the second computer game I spent much time on (the first one was Wizardry - and if you even recall that - it dates you). I come from a DM-hosted RPG background, not so much a gamer background. So I am looking for detail, ongoing development of PC's, fellow players, and hopefully some NPCs. There is no "win", no "leaderboard" no grinding. Participation is the win. If there even is such a thing.

mandrakethebard_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I find immersive. (1) A large world that can be explored in detail.

spoqster wrote: »

The explorable world is not really that large. In reality at any given character level, there is only little to explore, because for the rest you are either under-leveled or over-leveled.

If you are "leveled" than your attention is probably more on fighting than exploring. I like going in corners, checking under shrubs (there is a dungeon somewhere that I heard a nirnroot and spend ... a good 10 min exploring to find it. It wasn't frustrating, it was enjoyable. It was calling me). Also doing fairly foolish things like jumping off a bridge into water that was darn near too shallow to get at what looked like a trunk/chest.

On the other hand, if it's the 'wandering and fighting' thing that really calls to you, I suppose you could look at scraps of leather (or whatever) as trophies or kills or beaver pelts. See here's the thing (for me) this is like the refrigerator box that I and my brother played with for a week or more (till it rained) which was at various times a pirate ship, a lunar lander, a police car and a spaceship to mars (my personal favorite). I am comfortable with "the details of the game" being the starting point, not the ending point to my experience. Not everyone is, clearly.

mandrakethebard_ESO wrote: »

(2) A wide variety of NPCs spread out over the world and linked by relationships, storylines, and also shared and related experiences.

spoqster wrote: »

Yes, there are a few characters that follow you through Tamriel and that you form a relationship with. <examples snipped> But it's all not very dynamic. Essentially you have to follow through with the story from start to finish for it to make sense.

Well... yes if you actually follow the story it works much better as a story. On the other hand, there are a few NPC's with just one or two lines, that for me are so well written and well-delivered that I can easily visualize a whole personality and ongoing relationship. I adore the Bag seller in Vulkel Guard for that very reason. Yes, later on my Dominion based characters could go elsewhere. Mostly they don't.

I'm skipping 3 because it deserves a whole section to itself.

I'm skipping 4 because it was all about PvP and I am uninterested at best and annoyed at worst by the whole thing.

mandrakethebard_ESO wrote: »

(5) Tons of things to do that have nothing to do with fighting.

spoqster wrote: »

Like what? Crafting and crafting writs?

Two totally different things in my experience. Crafting I enjoy (mostly - I do agree it could be improved - and sometimes I am aggravated at the 'make a new set for every bleedin' level'). Actually I really only end up crafting (or requesting) new armor about every four levels. I have a few characters (not alts; I know their backstories) who specialize in different crafts. I've been known to send stuff to guild members I've never met because I'm at a nice crafting table honing my craft and on the roster they appear to be a good class/level for it. But mostly if I need new armor, I request it of my spouse (who is the real reason I play - we are enjoying sharing a 'world') because his character is the one that "I" want to "order" my armor from.

spoqster wrote: »

In terms of immersion, who will ever need dull iron lvl 1 daggers and why should I waste my time creating them and then bringing them somewhere.

Again, goes back to how much detail you want the world to feed to you. I can come up with many answers for that sort of question - and I can have fun doing it. But on the whole, I mostly give it a pass because other things are more fun to me.

spoqster wrote: »

And crafting... <snip> You have to travel to at least two different set locations, then you have to travel back because there is no enchanting station at the set locations, then you have to redo an item because the interface resets the level between items. The last time I did that it took me over one hour to craft a set of gear for my character!

The process of crafting is part of the process of exploring and being in the world. I've got way too many supplies of materials, so the "make it too low and remake it" adds to the immersion, while not meaning I can't make any given set.

For that matter, as I have crafters that are not really high enough level for the stations they want to work with, getting "there" and back can be quite the adventure. The time my arrogant sorceress got herself killed in Grahtwood was highly embarrassing and immersive. I have a sniper wood elf that has to sneak and ambush undead to get to the station she makes her bows at. It's great (to me).

As for me, it's a completely different character who does the glyph creation, so there is the process of deciding what I want (do I go for stamina this time? Do I have jewelry to upgrade or change (never met an alchemical enchantment that I kept) or do I just get so excited about having it improved to where I orange out/softcap that I don't bother with enchanting - yeah this will change in 1.6 I suspect. Anyway, ordering it from my "other character" or my spouses characters, and then reading the letter that comes with it (my husband's most powerful enchanter is also one of his most sarcastic characters). Frankly I wish I could add little letters or comments to the crafted items I sell in my guild store(s). I love tempering - it's great to get something "better" (to greenify it or blueify it - no I can't recall the in-game terms and don't really care) and when it's an item I'll be using for a long time (like the Warlock Pauldons of 16th level that my 22nd level sorceress is still using; haven't found anything higher and I can't afford the ones for sale) then I break down and purple-ify it.

I also enjoy reading (not just grab items and delete, but actual reading) the letters from my hirelings and chuckling at the notion that she/he/they are trying to convince any given "employer" that he or she is the only one.

mandrakethebard_ESO wrote: »

(6) Most importantly, an endless variety of people and places that have absolutely nothing to do with quests or advancement.

spoqster wrote: »

You mean all the npcs that stand around and don't have dialogue? Or the merchants that are in every town that sell useless overpriced goods?

No, I mean the NPCs near quests that have little one or two line addons to the main quest-giver's story that sometimes open my eyes as to what might really be going on. Or turn around and talk to the quest giver again, instead of just rushing off, because sometimes there is more to hear.

As for merchants, I don't buy from them. I visit some guild stores, and I rarely buy from them. I'm not here to shop, I"m here to explore and make and explore and adventure. And maybe spend some time chatting in-game with compatible folks. The time that someone's dead horse glitched in front of the Bank of Daggerfall still ranks as one of the best hour's of playing - there were so many people making cracks, singing, even trying to dig a grave for the poor thing. It was great fun. Because we took the time to have the fun.

If this isn't your cup of tea - well by all means do the stuff you do like. I'm hoping you do like something.

Mathius_Mordred

newtinmpls wrote: »

snip

Nice, you get it, you know how to use your imagination to the full. I particularly liked the line about turning back to the quest giver after the quest is over (as well as any other protagonists in that particular story) there are often some really nice extra lines. If you take the time to follow up on an NPC they will often have something nice to say to you.

Woolenthreads

Rosveen wrote: »

I completed the 1-50 experience in 3 months... And I'm not even a roleplayer or an altoholic. If I was, I'd have 16 characters of varying <50 levels, like that one guy I know.

I don't think he's talking about me .... I may have revealed I have 16 characters (though I rarely use EU server anymore) but the Templar Healer is VR1 .

# Edit: Though saying a character is VR1 is sort of like saying the character is L50

lathbury

Thats because whiners got the little content we have nerfed

Rosveen

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I completed the 1-50 experience in 3 months... And I'm not even a roleplayer or an altoholic. If I was, I'd have 16 characters of varying <50 levels, like that one guy I know.

I don't think he's talking about me .... I may have revealed I have 16 characters (though I rarely use EU server anymore) but the Templar Healer is VR1 .

# Edit: Though saying a character is VR1 is sort of like saying the character is L50

I'm not a he and no, I wasn't talking about you. But I'm glad to see there are more people here who don't rush to max level.

Woolenthreads

Rosveen wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I completed the 1-50 experience in 3 months... And I'm not even a roleplayer or an altoholic. If I was, I'd have 16 characters of varying <50 levels, like that one guy I know.

I don't think he's talking about me .... I may have revealed I have 16 characters (though I rarely use EU server anymore) but the Templar Healer is VR1 .

# Edit: Though saying a character is VR1 is sort of like saying the character is L50

I'm not a he and no, I wasn't talking about you. But I'm glad to see there are more people here who don't rush to max level.

Actually, I've seen a number of other regulars who have taken the scenic trip with multiple characters. AlexDougherty and Poodlemaster are two I can recall saying so, in the forums, just off the top of my head.

Apokh

Perhaps she better plays challenging Candy Crush Saga or something challenging with a Joystick ? When someone begins to ask, whay he has to do quests in a RPG Game...NEXT!

Soulharvester

I know that all too well, this happened to me in Asherons Call a while back.

It was me and the girl, for a while, started arriving at that point of despair, then we met a player that would eventually become the third!

I think having a third person in your mix might help and you get an outside advice on different things.

Can also check out battlemaster corner and try some of those builds, lots of fun for some of em.
Maybe design your own, three heads can make something pretty interesting.

Avoid 4 though, 3 is enough!

I would advise, if you have to do more than 3 for certain content is fine, but as far as exploring, pvp, etc, well look at it this way, she thinks its easy?

Alright, cool, then go into a higher level dungeon, pull a few mobs, then a few more, then few more.
The gains are going to be nice, especially in a pvp place. Kinda fun fighting against a half dozen mobs then another 4 spawn right behind ya! Too survive that or manage a build to support that, it is a feeling of accomplishment that cannot be bought!

Roleplay might be the answer as well, give that a shot, its gonna be different but give it time, the brain will click eventually!

Just my thoughts anyway! Good luck!

WhiskyBob

Morvul wrote: »

well, this isn't exactly limited to ESO.
my personal impression is that most games try really, really, incredibly hard to cater to the "players" who want to press the very same button in not-too-rapid succession for 500+ times and then be rewarded by a very big text stating essentially: "congratulations! you are the most awesome gamer ever born and you have just won this game"

Wrecking Blow 1.6 rotation anyone?

gezzerb16_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

Atirez wrote: »

14 hours! Is that for real? I have played more than that on one character this weekend and only went from 20 to 33. Spent around 1 hour alone in the Halls of the Dead (grouped with 1 random). And even now I feel like I have been speed clicking quest text and feel I am missing out.

Most likely? Yeah. You can earn a lot from kill XP if you find high density areas and farm them out for a couple hours. Is it fun? Not for me, but some people go for that.

Otherwise known as "power leveling". And it can be done, if leveling is your only goal. But if that's your only goal you shouldn't be playing a MMO.
For me immersive and experience go hand in hand. You can only become as immersed as you allow yourself to be, and how you engage and experience the game world around you will be a major factor in that immersiveness. If you find you don't appreciate long drawn out quest stories from quest givers, either text or spoken, it won't pull you into the world no matter how well done. If you don't like stopping and just staring at the world surrounding you due to how breath taking and well conceived it is, again you won't be pulled in to the world. I could go on, but it'd be redundant.
Everyone has their own tastes and that's cool, but if you're more about the end goal then the journey, you're just not going to find any MMO game world all that immersive.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

The highlight of any TES game, including ESO is the story. I am sure that if you are only interested in leveling, you are missing out on the game. My ex husband could never play ESO as he was always about the endgame and 'winning'. I kept telling him (back when we were still married about the time of Daggerfall) that you don't win a RPG. He then forbade me from buying the game. He could play Doom all day long but that game bored me to tears.

Not every game is for everyone. But, have you considered that by calling the game boring, she was telling you that you are spending too much time on the game and not enough time with her. If she managed to get you off the game to watch TV with her, she accomplished the goal. It's jealousy and insecurity showing. That is how the female mind works. I should know being a female myself.