PTS - Emperor little broken

Kingdinguhling

Last night we had about 7-8 of us on the Yellow Emperor while trying to bring a scroll back to our Keep. He killed the Scroll Holder (didn't retrieve the Scroll) just let it sit there. we all ganged up on him and with all 7-8 of us we couldn't kill him before the scroll respawned. Took about 7-10 minutes to bring him down.

I hope ZOS has plans to nerf this slightly later on because 3600 CP's + Emperor is just way too broken in its current state.

Cody

3600 CPs for "regular" players make them OP enough as it is.

I can't even imagine it for an emperor.......

Rydik

No need to nerf anything, 3600 cp have nothing to do with real balance.

Domander

Depending on the skill level of the players involved, this is the same as live. It sounds like it should be IMO. I'd be more concerned if single players were killing emps without much of a fight.

Attorneyatlawl

I've taken out emps solo 1on1 in both beta and live, but unless they're a poor player it is difficult. Which, really, is as it should be. I have to note, having dueled an emp on pts 1.6, the buff helps them a ton due to cap removals, even with them being 75 percent now. I actually did decently, but each duel ended when I eventually goofed and ate an unblocked wrecking blow for 20k+ (non crit I believe) at some point . He had 50k HP and over 60k stamina, hit my basically mitigation hardcapped character that hard .

Messy1

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Last night we had about 7-8 of us on the Yellow Emperor while trying to bring a scroll back to our Keep. He killed the Scroll Holder (didn't retrieve the Scroll) just let it sit there. we all ganged up on him and with all 7-8 of us we couldn't kill him before the scroll respawned. Took about 7-10 minutes to bring him down.

I hope ZOS has plans to nerf this slightly later on because 3600 CP's + Emperor is just way too broken in its current state.

I don't think anyone will have anywhere close to 3600 CPs when this goes live, but then again if it was hard for 7-8 players who also had 3600 CPs to take down the Emperor then maybe something ought to be done.

Cody

Messy1 wrote: »

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Last night we had about 7-8 of us on the Yellow Emperor while trying to bring a scroll back to our Keep. He killed the Scroll Holder (didn't retrieve the Scroll) just let it sit there. we all ganged up on him and with all 7-8 of us we couldn't kill him before the scroll respawned. Took about 7-10 minutes to bring him down.

I hope ZOS has plans to nerf this slightly later on because 3600 CP's + Emperor is just way too broken in its current state.

I don't think anyone will have anywhere close to 3600 CPs when this goes live, but then again if it was hard for 7-8 players who also had 3600 CPs to take down the Emperor then maybe something ought to be done.

the CS system needs fixing is all.

a player with 3600CP is extremely Overpowered, get a cluster of them together; it turns into chaos; i can't even imagine what an emp thrown into the fray would do.

ginoboehm

A player with 3600 CP against someone with < 100 CP feels almost the same as fighting an emperor today

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

ginoboehm wrote: »

A player with 3600 CP against someone with < 100 CP feels almost the same as fighting an emperor today

Anyone remember Murder Thumbs from Volendrung s1 and Sura from early Haderus?

Attorneyatlawl

ginoboehm wrote: »

A player with 3600 CP against someone with < 100 CP feels almost the same as fighting an emperor today

I can't say I agree with that at all, having dueled people with 3600cp while my template toons were using 30/30/30 (90 total) for the most part.

Kingdinguhling

We where all capped at 3600 CP's and we talked about it together after it happened. It was absolutely ridiculous.

And about the:

ginoboehm wrote: »

A player with 3600 CP against someone with < 100 CP feels almost the same as fighting an emperor today

Its no where near the same.

it doesn't take 7-8 people with 30-50 Champions to take down a capped 3600 CP's character. me and a duo partner went around killing them on NB and DK. We had no problem taking down people for the most part. The fights lasted a lot longer and yes it was tough but not this bad.

literally 7-8 players Vs 1 Emperor - He couldn't escape but he could do some serious damage still which means he wasn't even using all his resources to stay alive. We had to resurrect 2 or 3 of us in the fight. The way we finally brought him down was a few guys popped Crit. potions/Stamina potions on top of it to get the increased DPS. And like I said he still killed a few of us with one shots. we just kept resurrecting while 4-5 of us where on him full time.

I think its the fact that the Emperor buff applys after everything else I think.

if it applied before the champion system it would make it significantly weaker but prolly not too much weaker. I'm sure it would still take 4 or so to take one emperor down. ( I'm guessing about how the Emperor buff works but I believe its added after everything)

I just found it incredibly absurd that it took 7-8 of us almost 10 minutes to take him down.

I think Emperor needs to be adjusted well before people get to cap. if not it will wreck Campaigns because the people who are going to get emperor are going to be the ones with the most CP's in theory.

IxSTALKERxI

Lol 8 people is nothing. Try being emperor when you have 200 blue zerging through 3 breaches in roe and another 200 red crossing alessia bridge. Of course emperor will appear overpowered on an empty test server. On live it will be much different. They already nerfed the stats down to +75% from +100% and you won't be getting ultimate as fast.

DDuke

Cody wrote: »

3600 CPs for "regular" players make them OP enough as it is.

I can't even imagine it for an emperor.......

Just wait until you meet a health stacking Templar emperor with Blazing Shields of death


Fun times ahead, fun times...

Attorneyatlawl

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

3600 CPs for "regular" players make them OP enough as it is.

I can't even imagine it for an emperor.......

Just wait until you meet a health stacking Templar emperor with Blazing Shields of death


Fun times ahead, fun times...

That's when I stand back and watch the few poor fools on my side throw themselves into the shield repeatedly and kill themselves, just like on live sometimes . Then I go for the kill alone with much better success.

Cody

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

3600 CPs for "regular" players make them OP enough as it is.

I can't even imagine it for an emperor.......

Just wait until you meet a health stacking Templar emperor with Blazing Shields of death


Fun times ahead, fun times...

already have:D

Or I think he stacked health:/

I beat him once, he beat me once(I actually beat him twice, but the first time i jumped from stealth, and he called it "unfair" so I had to fight him in a straight up fight)

the guy was a noob templar, so I was spared frustration. lol. But I have seen templars like that on PTS, and its crazy:/

Thankfully, I wont be playing PvP for the first week or so(making a new character when 1.6 goes live
) so some of these issues may be fixed before I get on PvP

ToRelax

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Lol 8 people is nothing. Try being emperor when you have 200 blue zerging through 3 breaches in roe and another 200 red crossing alessia bridge. Of course emperor will appear overpowered on an empty test server. On live it will be much different. They already nerfed the stats down to +75% from +100% and you won't be getting ultimate as fast.

^ This.

Kingdinguhling

Cody wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

3600 CPs for "regular" players make them OP enough as it is.

I can't even imagine it for an emperor.......

Just wait until you meet a health stacking Templar emperor with Blazing Shields of death


Fun times ahead, fun times...

already have:D

Or I think he stacked health:/

I beat him once, he beat me once(I actually beat him twice, but the first time i jumped from stealth, and he called it "unfair" so I had to fight him in a straight up fight)

the guy was a noob templar, so I was spared frustration. lol. But I have seen templars like that on PTS, and its crazy:/

Thankfully, I wont be playing PvP for the first week or so(making a new character when 1.6 goes live
) so some of these issues may be fixed before I get on PvP

There is no way anyone was ever gonna take this guy on 1v1. I Understand the buff should be powerful enough to be prized but it shouldn't be so broken that it breaks the game on any scale. whether it is 8v1 or 80vs10 or 800vs100. All I'm saying is Emperor will be far to powerful in its current state if people make it to capped Champion points before they can address it.

And he wasn't just stacking defense and shields he still was putting out ridiculous DPS numbers. he hit me for 13k and 22k back to back at one point later on trying to take our scroll back from Fort Warden. I just believe it needs to be toned back slightly more 50% or 60% would still be incredible and would still take 4-5 people to take down but this was just outrageous.

ToRelax

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

3600 CPs for "regular" players make them OP enough as it is.

I can't even imagine it for an emperor.......

Just wait until you meet a health stacking Templar emperor with Blazing Shields of death


Fun times ahead, fun times...

already have:D

Or I think he stacked health:/

I beat him once, he beat me once(I actually beat him twice, but the first time i jumped from stealth, and he called it "unfair" so I had to fight him in a straight up fight)

the guy was a noob templar, so I was spared frustration. lol. But I have seen templars like that on PTS, and its crazy:/

Thankfully, I wont be playing PvP for the first week or so(making a new character when 1.6 goes live
) so some of these issues may be fixed before I get on PvP

There is no way anyone was ever gonna take this guy on 1v1. I Understand the buff should be powerful enough to be prized but it shouldn't be so broken that it breaks the game on any scale. whether it is 8v1 or 80vs10 or 800vs100. All I'm saying is Emperor will be far to powerful in its current state if people make it to capped Champion points before they can address it.

And he wasn't just stacking defense and shields he still was putting out ridiculous DPS numbers. he hit me for 13k and 22k back to back at one point later on trying to take our scroll back from Fort Warden. I just believe it needs to be toned back slightly more 50% or 60% would still be incredible and would still take 4-5 people to take down but this was just outrageous.

Then the problem is champion system and not emperor passives.
What they could do is let the emperor passives be applied before other buffs but it isn't even needed. Emperor will not be overpowered on live if they tone down the champion passives to a reasonable level (like 5 times weaker than currently on PTS).

Panda244

Emperor is Emperor, they already nerfed it for no reason, it's not even special in 1.6 anymore, you're fighting someone with 15-30k more resources with you, and stronger heals... That's it. They can no longer wipe zergs by dropping a standard every 3.14159265359 seconds. Being Emperor is boring in 1.6, and stupid

Attorneyatlawl

ToRelax wrote: »

Then the problem is champion system and not emperor passives.
What they could do is let the emperor passives be applied before other buffs but it isn't even needed. Emperor will not be overpowered on live if they tone down the champion passives to a reasonable level (like 5 times weaker than currently on PTS).

No, it really is the emperor buff that's the problem, since there are no more caps, soft or hard, on the stats it affects. The softcaps weakened the actual effectiveness of the emperorship buff far, far more than just changing it from 100% w/ caps to 75% without caps/diminishing returns has done, resulting in it being extremely potent. This same interaction would occur regardless of the champion system even existing whatsoever, just by simple math alone.

HP stacking emp on live could reach ~3700hp with food while maintaining decent offense. Emp buff would then add 100% but it would only actually apply under half between the softcap chopping off half of the gain, and the hardcap limiting it (I think it's what, around 4.8-5k as of live 1.5?). Same went for the magicka/stam parts of that. Now the same emperor can reach 45k+ hp on PTS (roughly analogous to that live emp with 3700hp due to stat rebalance) and then gets 75% more outright, no caps, no diminishing returns, landing at around 80k HP while still gaining huge amounts of mag/stam due to there being no caps there, either.

One emp I ran into as I said on PTS was able to get 52k hp + 60k stamina and of course a moderate amount of magicka (probably around 20k with the emp buff on). While he had champ points allocated, those numbers only would have been about 5-7% lower without them, making that factor largely irrelevant.

IxSTALKERxI

They are emperor. They are meant to be overpowered. If you don't like it, then don't let them take the 6 emperor keeps.

If an emperor comes across a group with a handful of healers in it, they are gonna have a hard time getting kills, and when they do those people will just get ressed again, meanwhile they will healing debuff you and use 3 soul assaults and a meteor on you at once. While this was happening you just lost an emperor keep on the other side of the map.

Just because an emperor has high stats doesn't mean they are invincible. There is only so much one person can do.

It's not about who gets the most kills or who can take on 8 players at once. It's about which of the 3 alliances wins the campaign with the most points. At the moment all crowning an emperor does is paint a huge target on your factions head.

Attorneyatlawl

Not disagreeing here, Stalker . Was just explaining the champ part of things to Relax. I am, and always have been, of the mind that emperorship should be extremely powerful, having advocated as such before.

IxSTALKERxI

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Not disagreeing here, Stalker . Was just explaining the champ part of things to Relax. I am, and always have been, of the mind that emperorship should be extremely powerful, having advocated as such before.

Cool Haha yeah sorry I just freak out now when I see a thread QQing about something being OP. Devs hear their cries and nerf things and completely change abilities and game mechanics that don't need to be changed.

ToRelax

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Then the problem is champion system and not emperor passives.
What they could do is let the emperor passives be applied before other buffs but it isn't even needed. Emperor will not be overpowered on live if they tone down the champion passives to a reasonable level (like 5 times weaker than currently on PTS).

No, it really is the emperor buff that's the problem, since there are no more caps, soft or hard, on the stats it affects. The softcaps weakened the actual effectiveness of the emperorship buff far, far more than just changing it from 100% w/ caps to 75% without caps/diminishing returns has done, resulting in it being extremely potent. This same interaction would occur regardless of the champion system even existing whatsoever, just by simple math alone.

HP stacking emp on live could reach ~3700hp with food while maintaining decent offense. Emp buff would then add 100% but it would only actually apply under half between the softcap chopping off half of the gain, and the hardcap limiting it (I think it's what, around 4.8-5k as of live 1.5?). Same went for the magicka/stam parts of that. Now the same emperor can reach 45k+ hp on PTS (roughly analogous to that live emp with 3700hp due to stat rebalance) and then gets 75% more outright, no caps, no diminishing returns, landing at around 80k HP while still gaining huge amounts of mag/stam due to there being no caps there, either.

One emp I ran into as I said on PTS was able to get 52k hp + 60k stamina and of course a moderate amount of magicka (probably around 20k with the emp buff on). While he had champ points allocated, those numbers only would have been about 5-7% lower without them, making that factor largely irrelevant.

How do you come to those 5-7% ? With the buff and those numbers it's more like 12% less raw stats and all the passives you get. Champion system is not irrelevant at all, it does strengthen an emperor more than other players and it is not just some higher attributes.
I can't see in your post wether you understand how much harder emperor has been hit with the new ult regen.
No one knows wether emp will be stronger or weaker than in 1.5, I think it will not be more of a deciding factor in the alliance war at least.

Kingdinguhling

ToRelax wrote: »

How do you come to those 5-7% ? With the buff and those numbers it's more like 12% less raw stats and all the passives you get. Champion system is not irrelevant at all, it does strengthen an emperor more than other players and it is not just some higher attributes.
I can't see in your post wether you understand how much harder emperor has been hit with the new ult regen.
No one knows wether emp will be stronger or weaker than in 1.5, I think it will not be more of a deciding factor in the alliance war at least.

LOL poor Emperor,

My poor Emperor Doesn't regen ultimate as fast as 1.5 you nerfed me so bad.

Are you really Advocating for the nerfed Emperor ? Its Absolutely Broken. What I'm worried about is a Person getting to the capped 3600 First when most are still around 300 Champion points and then getting Emperor to boot. He will easily be soloing keeps on Live. And this will break the PVP experience for sure. 400% Siege damage, 75% Buff, + Stats,(Add Emperor after the +25% to everything from Champion points). then add the full Buffs of the champion system on him above the rest of the crowd who could be anywhere from 50-500 Champion points. he's going to walk all over anyone. he will be a 1 man army. it took 8 Fully geared VR14 3600 Champion point characters working together to lock him down. And we haven't even figured out Optimal Builds yet. And then 10 minutes to Kill him.

I'm just saying I believe it needs to be looked at and all I've brought is my Experience of trying to actually kill him.

We tried for a few hours afterwards at fort Warden with only 3-4 of us but with no Success. He killed everyone one of us repeatedly whether we where together or not.

I think I got lucky once and killed him because he was AFK. Snuck up and uncovered him on a Rock hidden with his Book out.

Panda244

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

How do you come to those 5-7% ? With the buff and those numbers it's more like 12% less raw stats and all the passives you get. Champion system is not irrelevant at all, it does strengthen an emperor more than other players and it is not just some higher attributes.
I can't see in your post wether you understand how much harder emperor has been hit with the new ult regen.
No one knows wether emp will be stronger or weaker than in 1.5, I think it will not be more of a deciding factor in the alliance war at least.

LOL poor Emperor,

My poor Emperor Doesn't regen ultimate as fast as 1.5 you nerfed me so bad.

Are you really Advocating for the nerfed Emperor ? Its Absolutely Broken. What I'm worried about is a Person getting to the capped 3600 First when most are still around 300 Champion points and then getting Emperor to boot. He will easily be soloing keeps on Live. And this will break the PVP experience for sure. 400% Siege damage, 75% Buff, + Stats,(Add Emperor after the +25% to everything from Champion points). then add the full Buffs of the champion system on him above the rest of the crowd who could be anywhere from 50-500 Champion points. he's going to walk all over anyone. he will be a 1 man army. it took 8 Fully geared VR14 3600 Champion point characters working together to lock him down. And we haven't even figured out Optimal Builds yet. And then 10 minutes to Kill him.

I'm just saying I believe it needs to be looked at and all I've brought is my Experience of trying to actually kill him.

We tried for a few hours afterwards at fort Warden with only 3-4 of us but with no Success. He killed everyone one of us repeatedly whether we where together or not.

I think I got lucky once and killed him because he was AFK. Snuck up and uncovered him on a Rock hidden with his Book out.

A lone Dragonknight with a Templar or Sorcerer, or another Dragonknight, can already duo keeps... It's relatively easy, and even simple, because of the guard layout and ability to CC them permanently with Reverberating Bash or Petrify. Emperors' should be able to solo 8 or <8, you should need at least ten skilled players to kill an Emperor, no less. It's no more OP than it always has been...

Kingdinguhling

Panda244 wrote: »

A lone Dragonknight with a Templar or Sorcerer, or another Dragonknight, can already duo keeps... It's relatively easy, and even simple, because of the guard layout and ability to CC them permanently with Reverberating Bash or Petrify. Emperors' should be able to solo 8 or <8, you should need at least ten skilled players to kill an Emperor, no less. It's no more OP than it always has been...

Really you want this.... 10 people to kill an Emperor really?

I'm not saying that 2 should be able to solo a Keep on Live. I Don't think that should be possible either. I'm saying even if the bonus was only 30%-50% it would still be godly. and people would still try for it because it would ensure everyone they came across less than 3-4 they could easily kill still.

And honestly with 0 Champion points atm on PTS I don't think a duo can solo a keep. Or it would be incredibly tough.

10 people to kill 1 is a bit absurd. no one likes those fights. Just wanting Emperor to be a "I win" button Vs astronomical Numbers is kinda ridiculous.

Kingdinguhling

People already Pick Templar over Every other healer not because they are 100% or 75% or 50% better. Its simply because they are slightly better healers. So if you think Emperor would loose its luster because of some mild tuning then you are badly fooled.

ToRelax

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

How do you come to those 5-7% ? With the buff and those numbers it's more like 12% less raw stats and all the passives you get. Champion system is not irrelevant at all, it does strengthen an emperor more than other players and it is not just some higher attributes.
I can't see in your post wether you understand how much harder emperor has been hit with the new ult regen.
No one knows wether emp will be stronger or weaker than in 1.5, I think it will not be more of a deciding factor in the alliance war at least.

LOL poor Emperor,

My poor Emperor Doesn't regen ultimate as fast as 1.5 you nerfed me so bad.

Are you really Advocating for the nerfed Emperor ? Its Absolutely Broken. What I'm worried about is a Person getting to the capped 3600 First when most are still around 300 Champion points and then getting Emperor to boot. He will easily be soloing keeps on Live. And this will break the PVP experience for sure. 400% Siege damage, 75% Buff, + Stats,(Add Emperor after the +25% to everything from Champion points). then add the full Buffs of the champion system on him above the rest of the crowd who could be anywhere from 50-500 Champion points. he's going to walk all over anyone. he will be a 1 man army. it took 8 Fully geared VR14 3600 Champion point characters working together to lock him down. And we haven't even figured out Optimal Builds yet. And then 10 minutes to Kill him.

I'm just saying I believe it needs to be looked at and all I've brought is my Experience of trying to actually kill him.

We tried for a few hours afterwards at fort Warden with only 3-4 of us but with no Success. He killed everyone one of us repeatedly whether we where together or not.

I think I got lucky once and killed him because he was AFK. Snuck up and uncovered him on a Rock hidden with his Book out.

Where did I say they nerfed emperor? They decreased the usefulness of his ult regen passive but gave him higher attributes with the removal of softcaps. As I stated already, the real problem does not lie in the emperor passives but the champion system and their synergies. Just read more carefully next time.

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

A lone Dragonknight with a Templar or Sorcerer, or another Dragonknight, can already duo keeps... It's relatively easy, and even simple, because of the guard layout and ability to CC them permanently with Reverberating Bash or Petrify. Emperors' should be able to solo 8 or <8, you should need at least ten skilled players to kill an Emperor, no less. It's no more OP than it always has been...

Really you want this.... 10 people to kill an Emperor really?

I'm not saying that 2 should be able to solo a Keep on Live. I Don't think that should be possible either. I'm saying even if the bonus was only 30%-50% it would still be godly. and people would still try for it because it would ensure everyone they came across less than 3-4 they could easily kill still.

And honestly with 0 Champion points atm on PTS I don't think a duo can solo a keep. Or it would be incredibly tough.

10 people to kill 1 is a bit absurd. no one likes those fights. Just wanting Emperor to be a "I win" button Vs astronomical Numbers is kinda ridiculous.

I don't know how 10 people is "astronomical" numbers. But yes it should take that much to kill an emperor who is supposed to be a force to be reckoned with in the alliance war.

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

People already Pick Templar over Every other healer not because they are 100% or 75% or 50% better. Its simply because they are slightly better healers. So if you think Emperor would loose its luster because of some mild tuning then you are badly fooled.

What are you even trying to tell with that? Emperor needs to be toned down to be on par with other players or what? I hope I misunderstand you now.

Kingdinguhling

I'm Saying that Emperor is too powerful and some mild Nerfs to make it a little less of a one sided fight isn't gonna hurt the prestige of it. People will stil try to obtain it. And the whole point of an Emperor wasn't for him to be a one man army. It was to be a reward for players.

U very easily could make it a 20% buff or a or a 30% buff and a very good player Could still take on 4-6 players.


I am saying there should be some one looking at this before people start getting to cap.

I am NOT saying Emperor needs to be the same as the rest of us. It needs to be a significant buff but shouldn't break the game.


And you saying the Champion system is the culprit is kinda ridiculous. So you want them to nerf everyone else???

Yes accumulatively the buffs are far to strong ( 3600Champion + Emperor) and yes the Champion system might be a little too powerful a buff at Capped CP's. But they can easily add in other campaigns for specific ranges of CP's to keep players fighting people around there own respective champion points.

As for Emperor I think the buff needs to be scaled down or there will be no way to stop the emperor if he gets to 3600 Champion points and claims Emperorship.

The guy we fought knew he was OP. He could have very easily have just returned the Scroll but instead before anyone even showed up he just waited by it so he could rack up some kills protecting it. He knew it was broken. He didn't care who or how many showed up. He knew no matter what we threw at him he could take it. Is there a reason for it being this powerful? Because if so there is no reason to even try to kill a Emperor. Might as well just let him have his way as long as he's around.

I think it should be a decent buff while active 20-30% and then afterwards stay about the same as current 1.6

ToRelax

I can not say it often enough, it was the many CP that let that emperor appear that powerful.

With a 20% - 30% stat increase people wouldn't even care about who has emperor (if they are not going for it themselves) because it just has no impact on the alliance war other than some health for that faction (sometimes at least) .