Templar and Dragonknight: Do we need to be Vampire in pvp with 1.6?

Lhorion

Hey,
my thoughts were:
Sorcs have the oportunity to port away if they are the target in open world pvp.
Nightblades have the opoertunity to use shadow + vanish when they are the target (and they have placed the shadow ) in open world pvp.

Templars and DKs don't have any escape skill. I don't like vampires, but I am scared. Do we need to be Vampire for the escape? Or do you see any othe roption to handle with beeing the target in 1.6? I would welcome your thoughts. At the moment I think I will be vamp because of this, but I would be glad about annother way.

Regards,
Lorion

madangrypally

A few things DKs and Templars can do.

1: Make sure to save enough of the mounts stamina to avoid getting knocked off the mount if attacked.
2: Radiant Magelight: This reduces the stealth attack damage. This can help you escape.
3: While traveling use One hand and Shield. Use Defense Stance every 30 seconds. Can help.
4: Make sure to have enough defense. If needed get a second set to use while moving in open alone. There are addons for gear swaps.
5: Use Invis Potions.

One players gain more CP points, War Mount Passive will also help. Caltraps will have to be used to knock most people off mounts.

Lhorion

1. Stamina is out much quicker than in 1.6 (without 3600 CP).
2. It wont help in groupfights as an escape.
3. Sure, but the problem wont be attacks while i am mounted. I was talking about handle with beeing target in open world. What I mean: What do you do when X people are hitting you.
4. Oh...Do you think my plan was running aroundw ith no defense?
5. This is the only good tip and this seems to be one of the ways for DK/templar to escape.

RakshaTheKhajiit

Do we need it? I'm a templar, and if I am targeted, I just try to soak that damage and survive till allies catch up and help kill bad guys.

Lhorion

@RakshaTheKhajiit On live server (1.5) i agree. But most of us use S&B so we can block most of the damage. So it is easy to handle with a few people for a while. The reson i posted this thread in the PTS forum is that you wont be able to block very much with S&B when 1.6 goes live. This is a good change, but I need any kond of escape I think.

Dracane

Dragonknights and Templars have extremely strong self heals and defensive. I think, this is enough.

Lhorion

@Dracane On the PTS right now damage shields are more important than any kind of heal. The self heal wont help when more than 1-2 good players hits you. If a group hits you (with 70 CP spent) on the PTS you are dead in seconds if you dont have a way to excuse.

Yuke

You can try dodge in circles till allies catch up.

Lhorion

@Yuke Did you try dodging with a magica DK on the PTS? I did not, but friends told me you are out of stamina after 2-3 times.

Gargragrond

Retreating maneuvers and my orc's OP swift passive .. or vamp, I hear the ultimate is good too

Lhorion

@Gargragrond Awwww... My mate Ösi Bua always told me that the day will come I would prefer an orc as race!!!
Vamp-escape: I am thinkinga bout mist form... No place for the ultimate in my thoughts at the moment

Yuke

Magicka LOL.

Stamina is out of control, bro.

I tried everything possible to make a viable Magicka build in my last three weeks of PTS testing. Its impossible to penetrate Harness Magicka + Class Shield stacking.

I mean sure, you can still spam Flappy Wings, but you wont be able to kill much with it. And if a good (hit & run) stamblade gonna pick you as a target, you will die for sure in your light armor.

Sorry, but as a Solo / Duo player i dont see any plus points to play a magicka build anymore.

Domander

If you want to not be a vampire but still have an escape you need 2 things

Retreating manuver (or the other one) or the duel wield speed boost morph

And use a bow.

speed boost + dodge roll with bow will get you moving. (If you can also sprint, its even better)

You need enough stamina to pull it off, and you also need to start before anyone is in gap closing range. This is the tough part.

Snit

Play your DK well, and you're the thing people run away from. You're playing the monster, not the stupid kids who go hide behind the chainsaws

Lhorion

@Yuke @Domander Hm... I hope I will find a way to use a "good" magica build, but you are right.. Stamina will be easyer in this way. I just don't want to join the stamina wave

@Snit no comment

Dreyloch

Lhorion wrote: »

Hey,
my thoughts were:
Sorcs have the oportunity to port away if they are the target in open world pvp.
Nightblades have the opoertunity to use shadow + vanish when they are the target (and they have placed the shadow ) in open world pvp.

Templars and DKs don't have any escape skill. I don't like vampires, but I am scared. Do we need to be Vampire for the escape? Or do you see any othe roption to handle with beeing the target in 1.6? I would welcome your thoughts. At the moment I think I will be vamp because of this, but I would be glad about annother way.

Regards,
Lorion

Short answer? Just man up and wear plate, and NO you don't need to be a vamp what kind of silliness is this thread?

Use routes that aren't so direct as to let the bad guys know where to hide on your path. DK's and Temps have the ability to take considerable damage. Even now wearing cloth on live I can most times survive a sniper hit enough to get knocked off my horse and have a fighting chance as a DK. You can't use potions while mounted, so unless you plan to run everywhere, get your horse speed up soon as you can, use the support skill for speed while mounted and moving around. You can cast stuff while mounted in 1.6

If your that scared to be out running in PvP, then don't PvP.

Lhorion

@Dreyloch Funny! If I am scared of beeing "out running" I would not have done my pvp rank 32 solo most the time.

On live I can block for a while, I have plate for more than 4 projectiles and I can dodge more. This things are important if you don't have an escape.
This thread is silly? We can test it. 3-4 of my friends will fight you on the PTS without beeing Ssorc or NB and with max 70 CP spent. I think you will see what i mean
Beside the stealth potions mistform seems to be the only way to have an escape for a magica DK.

Soulac

Lhorion wrote: »

@Yuke Did you try dodging with a magica DK on the PTS? I did not, but friends told me you are out of stamina after 2-3 times.

Well it depends on your build..

Soris

Hey Lorion, I'll give you the best answer. Use line of sight! No more face tanking anymore hehe

McDoogs

Only a bad DK needs to run away, ever.

Lhorion

@McDoogs "needs" vs. "will need"

P.S.: "run away" vs. "get out of focus"

olsborg

@Lhorion if you do go stamina, I reccomend using manouver and bow dodge passive. With medium armor your sprint speed is good + 40% from manouver and 30% from bow passive. You'll be speeding out of bad situations pretty reliably.

Lhorion

@olsborg thx, I will tets it. But I don't want to run away, I am looking for a way to get out of focus. I usually do smallscale pvp and if you fight outnumbered against many enemies you need something that helps you handle with the damage for a while. With 1.6 (no perma blocking, no permadidging with light armour) it will be hard and the two classes without escape will habe to think about it. This does not mean DK and Templar will be bad, don't misunderstand me.

olsborg

Lhorion wrote: »

@olsborg thx, I will tets it. But I don't want to run away, I am looking for a way to get out of focus. I usually do smallscale pvp and if you fight outnumbered against many enemies you need something that helps you handle with the damage for a while. With 1.6 (no perma blocking, no permadidging with light armour) it will be hard and the two classes without escape will habe to think about it. This does not mean DK and Templar will be bad, don't misunderstand me.

I understand completely, I believe 1.6 brings more balance to the game, but at the same time makes it harder for templar and dk since they dont have a way to escape/reset aggro in small scale pvp. Cloak is inherently f'ed up, but its atleast better then nothing, sometimes

trimsic_ESO

DK and templars have defensive skills that sorcs and NB don't have. The only defense for a NB is to vanish or CC (fear, stun), and the sorcs can TP and stun. In addition to that every class can cast a damage shield.

olsborg

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

In addition to that every class can cast a damage shield.

You mean, every class except nightblade, right?

Sheuib

In 1.5 I would just block and spam heals until help arrived. Yes I always do group PVP and basically am a group PVP healer. However, the changes to ultimate generation are forcing me to use a staff instead of the shield. I need to be able to use a ranged light attack. Additionally, as stated my stamina will go away quickly even if I used a shield to block.

So my plan for 1.6 is similar but I am using two damage shields and heals instead of blocking and heals. Basically, my stand your ground bar will be:

weapon is resto staff
puncturing sweep (magicka morph to puncturing strike with the heal added)
blazing shield
healing ward
breath of life
purifying ritual
ultimate barrier

That is my plan. We will see how it actually works out when the time comes.

Lhorion

Sheuib wrote: »

In 1.5 I would just block and spam heals until help arrived. Yes I always do group PVP and basically am a group PVP healer. However, the changes to ultimate generation are forcing me to use a staff instead of the shield. I need to be able to use a ranged light attack. Additionally, as stated my stamina will go away quickly even if I used a shield to block.
.

This thread is about 1.6. I have no problems in 1.5

Your ideas about 1.6 are fine, I will use samage shields as well we all have to), but I don't think this will be enough for 2 or more people. Sure - you have to die against more than one player, but I am waltking about handle with this damage for a while. I don't think damage shields will help that much when X players hits you. In 1v1 it is very strong.

Sheuib

Lhorion wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

In 1.5 I would just block and spam heals until help arrived. Yes I always do group PVP and basically am a group PVP healer. However, the changes to ultimate generation are forcing me to use a staff instead of the shield. I need to be able to use a ranged light attack. Additionally, as stated my stamina will go away quickly even if I used a shield to block.
.

This thread is about 1.6. I have no problems in 1.5

Your ideas about 1.6 are fine, I will use samage shields as well we all have to), but I don't think this will be enough for 2 or more people. Sure - you have to die against more than one player, but I am waltking about handle with this damage for a while. I don't think damage shields will help that much when X players hits you. In 1v1 it is very strong.

I am always in a group when I PVP so my plan only has to last for a short time until the rest of the group can kill off enemies. Yes as the healer I know I am going to get focused and I have always loved it when they would try and kill me while the rest of my group is killing them. So that is the plan. If it works then it will continue to be the plan. If it doesn't well then changes will have to be made. Possibly, drop puncturing sweep for another shield. But, basically using damage shields to replace what I used to do with my wood shield.

As far as escapes go I do have invis potions in one of my quick slots.

Animal_Mother

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

DK and templars have defensive skills that sorcs and NB don't have. The only defense for a NB is to vanish or CC (fear, stun), and the sorcs can TP and stun. In addition to that every class can cast a damage shield.

As a Temp, our defensive skills are now heal and shields - I think all classes have these to some degree - even though Sun Shield provides a mechanism for damage - it is real easy to avoid. We could throw down a rune to boost our defenses, but that limits our mobility and thus survivability. Our only CC is single-target and, as already noted, blocking will drain our stamina much too quickly.

@Lhorian - I haven't done PvP on the PTS. I've always used my charges in a hit and run style. So, I guess I would target a weaker opponent on the fringes and then stun with Bash or Spear Shards and try to run away/re-stealth. In the end, I would just have to bite the dust, because tab-targeting kept me from entering stealth, and re-learn not to stray too far from support. It's certainly going to be a big adjustment from 1.5 where we could block cast Sun Shield until help arrives.

Lhorion

I think I will use mistform. If i am in the focus of a group in a smallscale fight I will use it to force them attacking annother player. I hope I will find a ways without mistform soon.