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Grim Focus and Spectral Arrow in PvP

Orihara_Izaya
Orihara_Izaya
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Am I the only person who thinks that this skill will be useless in PvP? When I say that I'm more referring to actually using the skill Spectral Arrow, because from what I've read most people are just interested in the 8% damage increase. Actually getting the skill spectral arrow off in PvP is nearly impossible since the duration is so short, and you have to build so many charges (good luck getting 8 heavy attacks on someone in pvp lol). With people running away, dodging, and you can't be attacking 100% of the time. Many times the skill resets before you build up enough charges. Not mentioning the fact that if you build up the charges and switch bars or wait 4 seconds without using the skill it resets anyhow.

Either way I feel the skill requires too much effort and is way to gimmicky for PvP (unless your just slotting it for the dmg boost). At least that's what I think when I used it on the PTS.

If other people have tried it, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but what are your opinions? I would love to hear them!
  • Fatalyis
    Fatalyis
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    No, you aren't alone. I've seen countless posts about it on here, and I have to agree. I would have much rather them kept Haste and replaced Agony with something more beneficial.

    That being said, the only time I was able to proc the Spectral Arrow (and actually notice I had procced it) was during a small skirmish at a keep.....I was on the wall spamming heavy attacks in an effort to use the Arrow and when I finally got it to work I was completely underwhelmed. It's a lame skill. I think that maybe it should work similar to Deadly Cloak, where you activate the buff, and then if you activate it again you fire the projectile. Just a thought.
  • Orihara_Izaya
    Orihara_Izaya
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    Fatalyis wrote: »
    No, you aren't alone. I've seen countless posts about it on here, and I have to agree. I would have much rather them kept Haste and replaced Agony with something more beneficial.

    That being said, the only time I was able to proc the Spectral Arrow (and actually notice I had procced it) was during a small skirmish at a keep.....I was on the wall spamming heavy attacks in an effort to use the Arrow and when I finally got it to work I was completely underwhelmed. It's a lame skill. I think that maybe it should work similar to Deadly Cloak, where you activate the buff, and then if you activate it again you fire the projectile. Just a thought.

    Agreed, I almost feel like they should just remove the whole charge thing and just change the skills cost/damage and make it more like dark flare/crystal frags so it's more like a ranged nuke skill. Give it a cast time or make you cast it twice idc.

    Especially since magicka builds don't really have a nuke (funnel health has lame damage). They could make the skill so that if you morph it one way it has the same functionality as before, and another more makes it into a nuke type spell or something. That way it can please both groups of people (if anyone actually likes the skill that is)

    imo I think we got the worst new skill when compared to templar or dk.
  • Fatalyis
    Fatalyis
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    imo I think we got the worst new skill when compared to templar or dk.

    BUT....they took away the negative side effects from Mark Target....so I guess I can live with it :wink:
  • Solanum
    Solanum
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    The skill is really just a "I've got an empty spot on my bar I want to fill" kinda thing, which rarely happens.

    8% damage increase and 10% stamina recovery for some mana, that's all that skill does.
    No one, is going to actually use that many light attacks, let alone heavy attacks in a 20 seconds span. So the proc, nifty as it might be, is pretty much wasted.

    They ought to change this skill, make the damage/stamina recovery passive while the skill is on the bar. And make the bow an active effect for using the skill. (perhaps an expensive version to avoid spamming.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Maybe it should become a toggle instead, which you could use for burst every 8 light/heavy attacks? Some adjustments might be necessary though (maybe have it degenerate out of combat or something).

    Just a though :smile:
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Orihara_Izaya
    Orihara_Izaya
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    Solanum wrote: »
    The skill is really just a "I've got an empty spot on my bar I want to fill" kinda thing, which rarely happens.

    8% damage increase and 10% stamina recovery for some mana, that's all that skill does.
    No one, is going to actually use that many light attacks, let alone heavy attacks in a 20 seconds span. So the proc, nifty as it might be, is pretty much wasted.

    They ought to change this skill, make the damage/stamina recovery passive while the skill is on the bar. And make the bow an active effect for using the skill. (perhaps an expensive version to avoid spamming.

    I definitely agree, they should make the bow an active skill it's such a waste of a good animation/decent damage skill. They can change the cost of the skill etc to make it fair. But ya like you said let's be serious nobody is getting that many light attacks in such a short period of time.

    Overall the skill isn't fun, and it feels like a waste.

    Edit: If by some miracle a ZOS staff member reads this thread can you pass this feedback onto the combat team and Eric.

    Edit 2: I even asked sypherpk a renowned eso twich streamer and a really good nightblade and he agreed that with me saying that 8 light attacks in 20 seconds was too much and he didn't like the skill.
    Edited by Orihara_Izaya on February 28, 2015 3:34AM
  • Father
    Father
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    That skill is not only useless in pvp but in PVE as well. they should change it to dmg shield or somthing since the game got harder and the only class without a dmg shield left is NB :<
  • Suntzu1414
    its worthless.


    Kill Well
    ST
    DC - NB VR15 - Khajit - DW / S+B / Bow
    DC - NB VR 15 - Wood Elf - S+B / Resto
    DC - TP VR 15 - Brenton - Resto / Dual Wield
    DC - SC VR 12 - High Elf - Desto / Dual Wield
    EP - TP VR 5 - Nord - 2hd / 2hd
    EP - DK 20 - Imperial - S+B / Desto / Bow
  • pjwb16_ESO
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    Father wrote: »
    That skill is not only useless in pvp but in PVE as well. they should change it to dmg shield or somthing since the game got harder and the only class without a dmg shield left is NB :<

    Also we have no Synergie Ability like Talons, Shards, Splash...

    ~ here since Beta

    My Youtube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCw3x5B-l0S093TAo10WafLA


    EU Server PC @Elendiel
    Fyrusha - NB AD
    Auri-ele - Sorc AD
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    Watch me Whip - Magicka DK DC
    Schnuggii - Bubble Templar AD
  • Darkonflare15
    Darkonflare15
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    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Father wrote: »
    That skill is not only useless in pvp but in PVE as well. they should change it to dmg shield or somthing since the game got harder and the only class without a dmg shield left is NB :<

    Also we have no Synergie Ability like Talons, Shards, Splash...

    Well most of our synergy abilities are ultimates like Veil of blades/ bolstering darkness, Soul siphon/ Soul Shred. Also we have also a passive now that can increase the physical crit of allies but other than that that's it. TBH I do not want a synergy skill since the synergy is most likely going to be cooler than the actually skill and I rather have a unique skill that I would use for myself and not my allies.

    As for this skill, the buff is great but the spectral arrow is not fun because you have to do non-practical stuff to get it and its not worth the sacrifice. Even though this element does not work it is still better than haste, that skill was only useful for it morphs and not the actually skill itself.

    What they need to do is fixed this skill so that we can actually use the spectral arrow in a fun way. Do something to Agony, since it is a worthless skill and has no merit and it does not fit the class line and fixed the executioner passive since it not even a practical passive now. If they can fixed these non- valuable skills , I would be happy.
  • pjwb16_ESO
    pjwb16_ESO
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    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Father wrote: »
    That skill is not only useless in pvp but in PVE as well. they should change it to dmg shield or somthing since the game got harder and the only class without a dmg shield left is NB :<

    Also we have no Synergie Ability like Talons, Shards, Splash...

    [...] I rather have a unique skill that I would use for myself and not my allies. -> ITS AN MMO !!!

    Do something to Agony, since it is a worthless skill
    yes yes yes yes yes yeah yes please yes yeah !!!!
    ~ here since Beta

    My Youtube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCw3x5B-l0S093TAo10WafLA


    EU Server PC @Elendiel
    Fyrusha - NB AD
    Auri-ele - Sorc AD
    Watch me Nae Nae - Magicka DK AD
    Watch me Whip - Magicka DK DC
    Schnuggii - Bubble Templar AD
  • Orihara_Izaya
    Orihara_Izaya
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    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Father wrote: »
    That skill is not only useless in pvp but in PVE as well. they should change it to dmg shield or somthing since the game got harder and the only class without a dmg shield left is NB :<

    Also we have no Synergie Ability like Talons, Shards, Splash...

    [...] I rather have a unique skill that I would use for myself and not my allies. -> ITS AN MMO !!!

    Do something to Agony, since it is a worthless skill
    yes yes yes yes yes yeah yes please yes yeah !!!!

    I don't think they will replace grim focus with agony, but I think my suggestion of splitting the morphs is a good idea. Similar to how templars dark flare morph works. One becomes an AOE close range ability, the other becomes a ranged nuke.

    They could do the same with grim focus keep one morph of grim focus just as a buff with stam regen/dmg increase, and the other morph remove all the buffs and just give us a nuke.

    If that's too much effort for the devs at decrease the charges required to 4; and reset the abilities duration once it becomes spectral arrow to give people a chance to actually use the damn skill before it expires.

    Anyone have any other suggestions?
  • ryanmjmcevoy_ESO
    ryanmjmcevoy_ESO
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    I don't remember, but doesn't it work with light attacks too? If you're using a bow, the usual poison arrow/light attack spam should get you to 8 pretty quick if you do archery. They also increased the speed of the light attacks. I guess it really depends how you play in PvP, but with my usual style I don't think it would be that hard, at least with a bow.
  • Cody
    Cody
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    I don't remember, but doesn't it work with light attacks too? If you're using a bow, the usual poison arrow/light attack spam should get you to 8 pretty quick if you do archery. They also increased the speed of the light attacks. I guess it really depends how you play in PvP, but with my usual style I don't think it would be that hard, at least with a bow.

    trust me, you wont be getting off 8 light/heavy attacks in a short period of time in PvP unless the enemy hides behind block the entire time and does not move.

    Now for PvE im sure one could, and it could be helpful for bosses(as long as its not one of those ridiculous DPS race bosses)
    Edited by Cody on March 1, 2015 2:34AM
  • Darkonflare15
    Darkonflare15
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    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    pjwb16_ESO wrote: »
    Father wrote: »
    That skill is not only useless in pvp but in PVE as well. they should change it to dmg shield or somthing since the game got harder and the only class without a dmg shield left is NB :<

    Also we have no Synergie Ability like Talons, Shards, Splash...

    [...] I rather have a unique skill that I would use for myself and not my allies. -> ITS AN MMO !!!

    Do something to Agony, since it is a worthless skill
    yes yes yes yes yes yeah yes please yes yeah !!!!

    Well My understanding a mmo means Massively multiplayer online. So it means that I will be playing a game that has a lot of players on the server.It does not mean that I actually have to play with them especially if I doing content that it made to be soloed. There are a lot of skills in the game that do not have a synergy and there are some that do but some skills that do have a synergy have cooler synergies than the base skill. So the skill is useless unless I am in a group with some people which is a situation that I will not be in all the time. Plus some synergies provide a outcome that would not benefit you if some random player comes up and activate it. So that is why I prefer skills that will help my character.
  • Orihara_Izaya
    Orihara_Izaya
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    To those who think you can actually get this skill off in PvP let's look at the math for a second. 20 / 8 = 2.5 so basically to get this skill off you need to use a light attack at least every 2.5 seconds. Now that is fairly easy to do if all you do it light attack, but if all you do is light attack your dps is going to suck and your better off using another skill since the bow's burst will not help.

    So the logical thing to do is light attack weave this skill in with another ability but that cuts down you 2.5 seconds leaving you with like .5 seconds extra. .5 seconds x 8 light attack weaves = 4 seconds. So if you pull off a perfect light attack weave combination that leaves you around 4 seconds to use your bow skill before it resets on you.

    Now let me bring this to reality. IN PVP THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Even in PvE there are boss fights where you can end up hard pressed too get a perfect light attack weave combination like that off, forget getting this to work with heavy attacks. There are times when you have to dodge, there are times when you must block, you get stunned in PvP, you can't be attacking 100% of the time because you may be running around a rock or casting a heal or something. The only way to get this skill off is if you give 100% of your attention and focus to getting it off which is unreasonable.

    Not to mention that say a miracle happens and you do get your bow skill to proc. You have NO CHOICE to decide when you want to use that skill in an encounter. Want to save it up to burst someone down and then use a finisher? Nope! Want to use it to break a shield? Nope! Want to know why? Well that's because by the time you get the god damn skill to proc you have only a few seconds to use the skill before it resets. FORCING you to use it the very second that you get the skill proc'd or face it reseting.

    These are only a few reasons why this skill is completely useless. I mean you have a marginally easier time getting it off in PvE but let's be realistic here. Whoever designed this skill was not thinking about this practically, yes if you look at it mathematically it's possible. But in reality there are to many obsticals blocking it's path to being useful, not to mention that there are other skills that are. 1) easier to use 2) less headache than this skill.

    At the very least if they are to lazy to re-work the skill they should at minimum reduce the charges required to 4 or double the duration.
    Edited by Orihara_Izaya on March 2, 2015 4:42AM
  • PlagueMonk
    PlagueMonk
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    The fact is, it's a SUCKY replacement for a decent skill NO ONE was complaining about.

    You are not going to be getting off 8 light attacks in PvP and you are not going to sacrifice your overall DPS in PvE just for one decent payoff shot.

    The skill is a fail and I really don't get how something like this was "approved".

    Guess the same person that made this changed our potion effectiveness to crappy ult gain and probably all of the other nonsensical class changes.
  • Aaramis
    Aaramis
    IMO, they need to either revert Grim Focus back to Haste, or re-work it. As it stands now, it doesn't work well at all.

    Changing it to be similar to DK's Inferno could be good, or just re-design it completely. Assassination line could actually do well with a nice DD ability outside of Ambush which is an opener and nothing more - maybe even make it poison damage, with the morphs adding different debuffs (i.e. one adds a poison which lowers spell resistance; another poison debuffs the target's strength and lowers damage, similar to Low Slash).

    Anyways, plenty of options and ideas floating around out there to work with. The end result is that it needs fixing, because I can't see any NB actually using it in its current state.
  • Darkonflare15
    Darkonflare15
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    PlagueMonk wrote: »
    The fact is, it's a SUCKY replacement for a decent skill NO ONE was complaining about.

    You are not going to be getting off 8 light attacks in PvP and you are not going to sacrifice your overall DPS in PvE just for one decent payoff shot.

    The skill is a fail and I really don't get how something like this was "approved".

    Guess the same person that made this changed our potion effectiveness to crappy ult gain and probably all of the other nonsensical class changes.

    Well Haste as base skill was useless and was consider one of the worst skills back in the pre patch 1.3 days. The attack speed boost would not work for staves and bows and was hardly noticeable for the other melee weapons. This was not working as plan thanks to light attack weaving. This skill was a broken mechanic it needed to be changed. Now the morphs were useless too until they increased the soft cap,which made the stamina regen morph usable since it was pointless to use this before because people easily max out stamina regen and there was diminish returns.

    Also the change to thr morph to boost heavy attack damage was not consider useful until heavy attacks in general became much better. This buff was not even on this morph from the beginning the stun after certain number of attacks was the base of this morph. Now once these morphs was consider good people consider haste to be good but it was still not since the base reason for the skill was to speed attacks and was not working as intended.Now Grim focused increase damage don boost is way better than what haste use to be.

    It is nice to have the standard buff actually working. Now the extra skill , spectral bow needs to be work on this part of the skill is worthless just like the attack speed of Haste was. This needs to be change because the nuke is not worth the time and effort to use and this makes the morph Merciless Resolve useless since you can not even use the bow. At least you fixed the problem of the skill not having visuals to let you when the skill ends and that it is still activated. It used to not even have that.
  • Orihara_Izaya
    Orihara_Izaya
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    I'm worried that they won't even bother to fix it. Then we will have two useless skills, grim focus and agony.
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