What IF we could pay gold to change class like a respec?

TehMagnus

Tankqull wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Two reasons why not:

- Lorebreaking.
- Decisions should matter.

if your decisions have been fu... by the developers you should be able to revert your decision.

Only people who got *** by the devs where Argonian healers tbh. Everything else is just balancing like the hundreds of DK nerfs or the buff of sorcs in 1.6.

TehMagnus

Kragorn wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

There are only four classes and granting class change would remove all reason to replay the game. Race change on the other hand should have been in the game since the beginning.

Sure because race change isn't incoherent & lore breaking.

Whereas large numbers of Imperials fighting in all factions is entirely lore-abiding .. or come to that, the three factions this game has (added entirely to give a bsasis for PVP) are lore-abiding as far as the depth of TES lore is concerned, I suppose.

The fact is much of ESO has no basis in TES lore going back 15+ years so picking one thing that you happen to dislike and throw 'lore' as a reason really isn't going to fly, is it?

All the others can be circumvented by stories or excuses. How do you explain realistically a race change? Michael Jackson's surgeon was also living in Tamriel?

Govalon

TehMagnus wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

There are only four classes and granting class change would remove all reason to replay the game. Race change on the other hand should have been in the game since the beginning.

Sure because race change isn't incoherent & lore breaking.

Whereas large numbers of Imperials fighting in all factions is entirely lore-abiding .. or come to that, the three factions this game has (added entirely to give a bsasis for PVP) are lore-abiding as far as the depth of TES lore is concerned, I suppose.

The fact is much of ESO has no basis in TES lore going back 15+ years so picking one thing that you happen to dislike and throw 'lore' as a reason really isn't going to fly, is it?

All the others can be circumvented by stories or excuses. How do you explain realistically a race change? Michael Jackson's surgeon was also living in Tamriel?

I am pretty sure there are quests where someones soul will end up in different body
NPC's are doing it without breaking lore, why could't we?

Elsonso

I think that class changes should be a part of the base game and not a Crown Store item.

However, I am not in favor of a full character respec as part of this.

1. Skills remain the same level and are not reset to zero. Are you level 50 in a class skill? If so, you retain that. EDIT: you can't use those skills unless you class change back.
2. Class change should include a class skill point refund and the cost of the class change should be added to the skill point reset cost. A good place to start with the added cost would be 2x the skill point respec cost for that character's class skills.
3. There should be a 30 day cool down before a class change is allowed again.
4. Weapon and other skills are untouched.

I am not in favor of race changes. This should be a very expensive Crown Store item, if offered at all.

technohic

After all the respecing I do with just what I can now; I cannot fathom the wasted gold I would spend bouncing around classes. As it is now, it at least has me locked in on something to where I have started to more settle in on improving what is working for me more often than radically changing to try something different.

I love the character building of this game but I swear; I am like a crack *** who got the job to guard the crack dealers warehouse.

Kronosphere

i enjoyed cadwells silver and gold. mainly gold (as DC zone was booooring to me) but it wasnt amazing enough to do again. recycling is ok, but when u gotta recycle the recycle.... if ya know what i mean =P

TheShadowScout

TehMagnus wrote: »

All the others can be circumvented by stories or excuses. How do you explain realistically a race change? Michael Jackson's surgeon was also living in Tamriel?

...
...sometimes, I feel invisible...
...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

It is in the lore, sort of (remember the dunmer in greenshade turning himself argonian with a potion while trying for khajiit? Or the temporary gobbo transformations in Stonefalls and Stormhaven? Or the permanent-until-countered alchemical animal transformations in Sentinel?)

There you are.

Mettaricana

TehMagnus wrote: »

Two reasons why not:

- Lorebreaking.
- Decisions should matter.

argument invalid nothing lore breaking here if i wanna be a mechanic i'll learn how to if i wanna be a police man i'll learn how to. There's nothing lore breaking about saying im tired of being a sorc and be like hey i wanna learn akaviri martial arts and breath fire to become a dragon knight and leave my old life behind. or later saying hmmm tired of fire i wanna assassinate people after i fell in with the wrong crowd. the only thing holding us back is a game mechanic nothing lore here

Snit

Do you really want to see a game that is 70% DK's, 20% Templars and 10%... roleplayers?

Mettaricana

Dreamo84 wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Two reasons why not:

- Lorebreaking.
- Decisions should matter.

yup i agree on the decision part! it does deminish the whole choice thing alot and would make it a bit trivial. however can u tell me more about the lore breaking part? from morrowind/oblivion/skyrim ive been able to dump my armor and weapons and start doing something completely different without it being lore breaking. so just not sure how u mean on that one. do you mean since our character has technically trained off screen to be x class? orr?

MM you're actually right, In my morning dizziness I confused class with race.

Yah I agree with you that it's not lorebreaking for class.

Then again, I wouldn't be against class change as long as the char is demoted back to level 1 (but he doesn't get to redo the quests he has already done because that would be just incoherent muhahaha and he can keep his skill points & AVA level).

Since leveling from 1 to 50 is class level, you should level up again if you change your class since your char is a "noob" in his new class.

Actually, your dizziness has gotten you again!

Your level is your character level. You actually have specific class skill levels. I can make my sorcerer lvl 50 while still being a *** sorcerer with all lvl 1 class skills :-p.

i would love the dogma approach of leveling all classes separately but only being one at a time

starkerealm

Honestly, I like it... but...

I think if something like that were in game, it should also come with prereqs you need to meet before you can respec your characters to a specific class. It would also open the door for new classes in the future, where you could meet the requirements and then respec over.

Nefrast

I find the whole idea that people want to force their will about what other's should be able to do with their own character or not perverse.

Make the game as open to casual players as possible. People who spend 8 hours a day and have all the time to try everything on their own are not enough to save this game. There are people who can only effort a single digit of hours a week, people who are only - if ever - able to get a single character into higher levels and who would love to play eventually an other class at high level. I know some of those, and from them most rather leave for other games instead of doing the same grind again. Give them the change without the need to spend a ridiculous amount of time

EDIT: There are multiple ways to archive that:
* option to buy a character which has already a high level
* Potions with an experience bonus of factor 10 or 20
* get rid of classes altogether
* Option to change class (for money, once a month, etc.)

Majic

God forbid we have more freedom in this game.

Flaminir

Allowing class change would make the game very 2d from the perspective of everybody would just roll FOTM classes. It really would be 'Elder DK's Online' then.

You would then find maybe 2 classes that were almost non-existant, and the few still playing them treated as second class citizens in the game, not able to get groups etc.

I don't like the idea at all... from any angle.

P.S. RACE change though? Meh.... most people wear helmets etc & I can hardly tell what race they are to start with.... unless they have a tail.

Nefrast

Flaminir wrote: »

Allowing class change would make the game very 2d from the perspective of everybody would just roll FOTM classes. It really would be 'Elder DK's Online' then.

That is a result of failed game design, not prohibited class change and should be fixed with improved game design. Do you think you can force people to play classes they don't like? Everyone can create a FOTM character who wants to. Right now there are people who rather quit then reroll and having to spend a ridiculous number of hours gaining levels. Give them options to stay!

Ixtyr

I personally don't believe that classes should be removed, but I do feel that the Templar's healing tree should be readapted to something else, and some of those heals should be made available to everyone. Otherwise, let other classes (Sorc, NB, DK) have much more effective and viable morphs available for healing. Right now, I can hold my own as a solid healer in both PvP and most PvE scenarios as a Nightblade, but regardless of whether I'm the best Nightblade healer out there, I'm always going to be easily outdone by a middle-of-the-pack Templar in terms of throughput. And that's demoralizing.

badmojo

What if, your decisions had consequences.

Artis

TehMagnus wrote: »

How do you explain realistically a race change? Michael Jackson's surgeon was also living in Tamriel?

Do you really have to even ask this question when talking about a fantasy-based computer game that takes place in the universe with magic? Magic - that's what can explain anything. Think of Bosmer shapeshifters and that they could be any race the wanted before the green pact..

Snit wrote: »

Do you really want to see a game that is 70% DK's, 20% Templars and 10%... roleplayers?

Sure, why not? We just don't want to feel punished for choosing the wrong class in the beginning. Who knew, that DKs will be so much stronger and still are so much stronger almost a year after launch? If everyone wants to be a DK then devs need to rebalance things. I really don't care about classes ratio as long as I know that I am not losing because of my class, i.e. if a player of the same class is better than me - then it's definitely skill/build, but if there's no chance for me to reach the efficiency of another class - then screw that class system.

Flaminir wrote: »

Allowing class change would make the game very 2d from the perspective of everybody would just roll FOTM classes. It really would be 'Elder DK's Online' then.

You would then find maybe 2 classes that were almost non-existant, and the few still playing them treated as second class citizens in the game, not able to get groups etc.
.

So? Isn't it awesome that devs' incapability of balancing the game won't affect our experience? Isn't it great that if do changes like 1.6 which change classes a lot, you can drop the class that you don't like anymore and go try another class and not lose your achievements?

I'm telling you, the reason why lots of players don't want to just reroll is their achievements. Make them account-wide and no one will ask for class respec again. We are already half-way there - guilds and dyes are account-wide. Add titles and achievements (yeap, will have to reward skill points for pvp ranks, dungeons and quests as well) there - and we will be happy.

badmojo wrote: »

What if, your decisions had consequences.

What if I told you, that I have enough of this BS in real life and I play games to actually escape from real world?

Jaxsun

dharbert wrote: »

This is one of, if not the most, laughable ideas that I have ever seen on this forum.

Do you have a constructive reason why?

Jaxsun

TehMagnus wrote: »

Two reasons why not:

- Lorebreaking.
- Decisions should matter.

Our decisions don't matter either way. We can delete and restart a new character as much as we want.

Lorebreaking, lulz, you're not really a high elf(or w/e you picked) you know. Also, we can delete and restart a new character as much as we want.

Flaminir

Artemis wrote: »

I'm telling you, the reason why lots of players don't want to just reroll is their achievements. Make them account-wide and no one will ask for class respec again. We are already half-way there - guilds and dyes are account-wide. Add titles and achievements (yeap, will have to reward skill points for pvp ranks, dungeons and quests as well) there - and we will be happy.

Agree totally.... there are a whole number of things which would help, make achievements account wide... same with PvP ranks.

But letting people switch class at whim would just be horrid for balance.

And yes there is the obvious statement that they need to balance the classes better for different activities, but I really think allowing people to change the class would cause mor eproblems than it solves.

After all.... if you could just change class when you liked, then what would be the point of having different characters?

People are asking for barber shops, change appearance, change race, change class... if they put ALL of these in then the point of different toons becomes a bit redundant.

olemanwinter

MY QUOTE

olemanwinter wrote: »

So my choices are either to endure or quit.

Decisions do have consequences. Zos made a decision to create their game as they did. The consequence is leaving me few alternatives but to quit.

YOUR REPLY

TehMagnus wrote: »

There is no imagining things, you made a decision, it was a poor one, quit or start over, doesn't really matter to ZOS, they allready got your money.

So is that your thing? Just restating what people just said but in condescending way as if you are arguing when you are actually in agreement.

Ugh, pathetic and tiring.

olemanwinter

Tandor wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

I want to be a NB....oh wait...half my class abilities are now stam based.

That's the reason for a full respec, it's nothing to do with being entitled to become a sorcerer instead.

Nowhere did I use the word "entitled".

I have a VR14 NB that I ENJOY playing. I have tried every possible way to recreate the equivalent build on the PTS and I haven't been able to. The NB is no longer fun FOR ME.

And yet, the idea of leveling up an alt of a different class to see if I like it is very unappealing TO ME.

Thus, ESO loses the possibility of my plus subscription.

It has nothing to do with being "entitled". It has to do with illogical business decisions.

This long after launch, it's safe to assume that the majority of existing players have found a way to play the game that enjoy. ESO is ruining many of those ways in an attempt to change the product to appeal to new customers.

Instead of simply expanding the product, which would have made more sense.

My build didn't die because it was OP or people QQ'd about it. It died as a consequence of Zos relaunching the game instead of doing the logical thing of adding original content to the VR1-14 experience to replace the grind.

Anyway, the only thing I'm "entitled" to is the control of my money. And after my build is broken and I'm stuck with a failed class on a failed alliance

Turelus

For me the cons listed far outweigh the pros.

Choices should matter in games, and PVP/PVE would really become dominated by the FOTM with everyone changing to the next one as it got nerfed.

Thankfully I think this is one of those things we don't have to worry about ZOS doing.

bosmern_ESO

Changing classes...no.

There would be never a reason to remake a new character, and it would make most of the DLC to come out pointless other for CP.

I've gotten a V14 templar, Nightblade, and Dragonknight, and I don't even play as much as many others do. I only grinded V1-V14 (you can grind 1-50 in like 24 hours). If I can do it other can.

Iluvrien

Flaminir wrote: »

After all.... if you could just change class when you liked, then what would be the point of having different characters?

People are asking for barber shops, change appearance, change race, change class... if they put ALL of these in then the point of different toons becomes a bit redundant.

You have to understand, people don't want different characters or toons or whatever you want to call them.

The people calling for this change are the people who want to have a single "effective" build (as opposed to a character) that they can use in endgame PvE and PvP. This isn't about the RPG side of MMORPG, this is pure MMO. If that build is no longer effective then people will want to change it to one that is, whether that is a race or class or whatever. Character choices have effectively no meaning here. The only things that are important are achievements and time played. I will say this again, this has nothing to do with the Role Playing Game aspect of ESO. The concept of "character" is utterly redundant in this case.

...ok, I need to stop here. Writing this is actually making me more angry than is useful.

Flaminir

Iluvrien wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

After all.... if you could just change class when you liked, then what would be the point of having different characters?

People are asking for barber shops, change appearance, change race, change class... if they put ALL of these in then the point of different toons becomes a bit redundant.

You have to understand, people don't want different characters or toons or whatever you want to call them.

The people calling for this change are the people who want to have a single "effective" build (as opposed to a character) that they can use in endgame PvE and PvP. This isn't about the RPG side of MMORPG, this is pure MMO. If that build is no longer effective then people will want to change it to one that is, whether that is a race or class or whatever. Character choices have effectively no meaning here. The only things that are important are achievements and time played. I will say this again, this has nothing to do with the Role Playing Game aspect of ESO. The concept of "character" is utterly redundant in this case.

...ok, I need to stop here. Writing this is actually making me more angry than is useful.

Whilst I do understand your points... you are basically saying that you would be happy with a system where everybody was just rolling the FOTM class because that is what ZoS allowed.... all under the guise of being able to choose what you like, without repercussions & without any effort.

If the game went down that route then why not take the arguement to its logical conclusion & remove classes all together? Then nobody would be at a disadvantage/advantage & we would all be the same.

P.S Just for the record I AM one of those people who just want a single effective build for all endgame stuff as you say... My main I've been playing since Beta is a Sorc... I do all parts of the game & my class isn't exactly great for a lot of it at the minute (3rd or 4th in almost every role). That doesn't mean I want to put something in that would lead down the road of making everybody the same.

As I say... I understand where you're coming from... & I do agree with a fair chunk of it... I just think its a case of it would end up having a worse effect over time than not allowing class changes.

Kronosphere

Flaminir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

After all.... if you could just change class when you liked, then what would be the point of having different characters?

People are asking for barber shops, change appearance, change race, change class... if they put ALL of these in then the point of different toons becomes a bit redundant.

You have to understand, people don't want different characters or toons or whatever you want to call them.

The people calling for this change are the people who want to have a single "effective" build (as opposed to a character) that they can use in endgame PvE and PvP. This isn't about the RPG side of MMORPG, this is pure MMO. If that build is no longer effective then people will want to change it to one that is, whether that is a race or class or whatever. Character choices have effectively no meaning here. The only things that are important are achievements and time played. I will say this again, this has nothing to do with the Role Playing Game aspect of ESO. The concept of "character" is utterly redundant in this case.

...ok, I need to stop here. Writing this is actually making me more angry than is useful.

Whilst I do understand your points... you are basically saying that you would be happy with a system where everybody was just rolling the FOTM class because that is what ZoS allowed.... all under the guise of being able to choose what you like, without repercussions & without any effort.

If the game went down that route then why not take the arguement to its logical conclusion & remove classes all together? Then nobody would be at a disadvantage/advantage & we would all be the same.

P.S Just for the record I AM one of those people who just want a single effective build for all endgame stuff as you say... My main I've been playing since Beta is a Sorc... I do all parts of the game & my class isn't exactly great for a lot of it at the minute (3rd or 4th in almost every role). That doesn't mean I want to put something in that would lead down the road of making everybody the same.

As I say... I understand where you're coming from... & I do agree with a fair chunk of it... I just think its a case of it would end up having a worse effect over time than not allowing class changes.

well the problem would be i imagine is unexpected synergies throughout class skills. have best skill of every class on your bar at once is not the same as being able to pick 1 class at a time

badmojo

Artemis wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

What if, your decisions had consequences.

What if I told you, that I have enough of this BS in real life and I play games to actually escape from real world?

Then I would probably suggest you shouldn't play a game like this that builds off your choices so much. Perhaps the Hello Kitty brand has something more suitable.

Flaminir

Kronosphere wrote: »

well the problem would be i imagine is unexpected synergies throughout class skills. have best skill of every class on your bar at once is not the same as being able to pick 1 class at a time

Sorry... maybe my post wasn't too clear.... I do NOT want there to be just one class so we are all just putting the same thing on our bar, I was just extrapolating the results of allowing people to change the class of their character whenever they felt like it....

My point is that if you can just change your class at will then the majority will just roll whichever class is strongest at that time... therefore having a similar effect... there will be far less diversity. Most people with the same class, & therefore the same FOTM build, & the same skills on their bar.

This would have a horrid effect on PvP thinking about it... it's already DK-tastic... imagine what it would be like if everybody could just flick a switch & become a DK.... The megaserver would take off with all those flappy wings going off at once!