XP gain in PVP is going to pale to PVE

technohic

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I think PVP players should get lots of XP for PVPing right around the same time I get lots of AP for grinding Craglorn... that way you guys get your CP and I get my Caltrops and Vigor!

Sure. As soon as we get monster sets and the other raid gear to drop.

Dimitrie

ZOS has already came out and prooved they care more about pve content than pvp. They said it a earlier forums talking about pve is a concept to retain players where as pvp isnt. Therefor they arnt going to put the money or time as much in pve. I agree I'm nothing but pvp. I think the pve content in this game blow.. and to see and watch peeps just grind pve for levels...OUCH makes my head hurt. The pvp should give a lot more exp especially for me players like me and everyone else that thats all we do is pvp. But like i said, ZOS put out a forum before talking about pve is their main concept and thats what they are basing the game on. Yet they barely have any knew PVE content, I don't get it in my opinion.

c0rp

Yep if you are a PVP only type person, get ready to start playing PVE cos its the only you are going to gain any CP at a reasonable rate.

Scotia

In today's live the question was asked, exp gain in Cyrodiil, they said that exp gain was pretty good in looking at the players receiving experience, and they have no plans to change it as it was upped in 1.5.

Grunim

Scotia wrote: »

In today's live the question was asked, exp gain in Cyrodiil, they said that exp gain was pretty good in looking at the players receiving experience, and they have no plans to change it as it was upped in 1.5.

My take on what they said was that every player earns a different amount in PvP and some seem to earn a lot of XP while others earn just a little. But yes, they did say they currently aren't planning to change it since the last change was made in Update 5, but they are watching.

Kuro1n

Well that is *** stupid. Totally out of touch with the players and how the game works. I mean how can you NOT understand your own game? I don't get it.

cazlonb16_ESO

Ironically xp gain in PvP is good and roughly on par with PvE only for those players running in bomb groups and routinely bringing the server to it's knees. You'd think a smart company would try to discourage such destructive behaviour and not enforce it as basically the only option if you wanna progress by playing PvP at all.

I guess ZOS work in mysterious ways.

olsborg

XP gain in pvp worries me, because it is almost noneexistant. Player kills need to be tripled, atleast, the pvp quests (kill players, classes, scout etc) need to be repeatable at a much higher rate then atm, and give more xp then it currently does.

Alphashado

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Ironically xp gain in PvP is good and roughly on par with PvE only for those players running in bomb groups and routinely bringing the server to it's knees. You'd think a smart company would try to discourage such destructive behaviour and not enforce it as basically the only option if you wanna progress by playing PvP at all.

I guess ZOS work in mysterious ways.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Zerg balls have gotten crazy out of hand. I don't mean good old fashion zergs, I mean Zerg balls. Anyone playing on chilrend NA recently knows what I mean. I won't mention what faction is doing it because it's irrelevant.

As ridiculous as they are, these Zerg balls are incredibly effective at farming AP. Therefore likely incredibly effective at earning XP as well.

Basically if you pvp in Cyrodill the way it was designed to be played, the XP is pretty slow. I can't help but wonder if zos is even aware of what's going on or if they simply look at average xp gains and call it research.

Perhaps the changes in 1.6 will help eliminate Zerg balls and therefore lower the average xp gains so that their next study will result in them seeing a more realistic average.

Romo

Jahosefat wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I have no idea why ZOS has been so stingy with PvP xp, and I think that the problem is going to get MUCH worse in 1.6.

PvPers will be forced to do a lot of PvE if they hope to get competitive... that is not good for the game.

I believe the concern they have stated is "win-trading" in cyrodiil. I think they are worried that if the XP bonuses were too high people would sell spots in "win-trade-groups" and stuff (which would be bad). I personally would like more XP gains in cyro though, and I think you could do it where win-trading wasn't very easy or possible but who knows. I blame the black alliance.

I do believe this is why we can't have nice stuff, like higher XP for PVP.

Jahosefat

Romo wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I have no idea why ZOS has been so stingy with PvP xp, and I think that the problem is going to get MUCH worse in 1.6.

PvPers will be forced to do a lot of PvE if they hope to get competitive... that is not good for the game.

I believe the concern they have stated is "win-trading" in cyrodiil. I think they are worried that if the XP bonuses were too high people would sell spots in "win-trade-groups" and stuff (which would be bad). I personally would like more XP gains in cyro though, and I think you could do it where win-trading wasn't very easy or possible but who knows. I blame the black alliance.

I do believe this is why we can't have nice stuff, like higher XP for PVP.

Here is an attempt at a constructive idea that might not be very win-tradeable (if they ever wish to increase XP gains in Cyro after future evaluation): have XP increased if you are at a "crossed-swords" area (the map icon thing); the bigger the battle the more XP bonus.

DeLindsay

I have great news. PvP XP gain will be more than quadruple what it is for being a Thief in PvE in 1.6!! As it sits now it takes 1-1/2 DAYS to gain 1 CP just working on Legerdemain. It may be a small token but at least you can say you'll have more CP than Thieves do, and Farmers, and Crafters, and RP'ers, all of which ZoS has been silent about since they give from nothing at all to barely more than nothing for XP.

On a side note, I agree XP gain should be boosted in PvP, as well as the playtsyles listed above.

Attorneyatlawl

technohic wrote: »

I would like the player killing quests to be available for pick up with the siege vendors that spawn that the keeps. That way, you can also refresh quests while isolated or when needing to move quickly.

Also; not sure if there is any reason to not have each player kill give like 300-400 xp or something? They are harder to kill than mass groups of mobs (ok, maybe not always but most the time)

I was getting around 750xp/vp per kill on the 1.6.4 PTS when dueling. I know that the amount of alliance points at least, scales when someone is higher rank, too... 99% sure offhand the XP does as well. And yeah, even when many aren't exactly tougher than that , they still aren't available at a moment's notice continuously like mobs are to grind on for xp, which will be important as of 1.6 because of the champion system.

Right now, pvp xp can be comparable to a moderate pve speed if you're absolutely decimating people in Cyrodiil, and comparable to being just about afk in pve if you're doing okish in Cyrodiil but there isn't enough action. That needs to change for the better.

Snit

I wonder if ZOS knows why some people seem to make so much more exp than others in Cyrodiil? Then I wonder if they want to encourage bombzergs quite as much as they currently do?

glak

Snit wrote: »

I wonder if ZOS knows why some people seem to make so much more exp than others in Cyrodiil? Then I wonder if they want to encourage bombzergs quite as much as they currently do?

In other words just by the fact that XP gain in Cyrodiil favors bombzergs / zergballs, ZOS is promoting that playstyle willingly or not.

Father

Give us more XP from Cyrodil Dailies and more XP from Cyrodil dungeons,Dolmens.
That should solve the problems. Since most players ditched doing these after they unlocked achievments and gathered skyshards.

daemonios

glak wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

I wonder if ZOS knows why some people seem to make so much more exp than others in Cyrodiil? Then I wonder if they want to encourage bombzergs quite as much as they currently do?

In other words just by the fact that XP gain in Cyrodiil favors bombzergs / zergballs, ZOS is promoting that playstyle willingly or not.

I think they do want to discourage zergballing, hence the removal of aoe caps. Well, not straight up removal, but they're allowing it to damage more than 6 targets. If I'm not mistaken, 6 targets get full damage, then a few more get 50% damage and the rest get 25% damage, or something like that. On top of that, the changes to ultimate mean that you can't spam bats+aoe over and over again. I *think* we're going to see a bit less zerballing come 1.6.

Alphashado

Father wrote: »

Give us more XP from Cyrodil Dailies and more XP from Cyrodil dungeons,Dolmens.
That should solve the problems. Since most players ditched doing these after they unlocked achievments and gathered skyshards.

Increasing the PvP daily XP would help. Removing the "daily" function and restoring them to repeatable quests would be even better. They used to be repeatable quests until ZoS converted them to dailies because people were getting "too much" xp. As mind boggling as that sounds.

I don't believe changing the Cyrodiil PvE quest xp or Cyrodiil Dolmen xp would make that much of a difference though because the majority of people in Cyrodiil want to earn xp while they are engaging in PvP and PvP objectives.

Father

Yeah but think about ganking people doing quests. back at launch I used to go to these questing areas and start ganking people and also get ganked while questing its fun >.<
Right now these villages and daily quests and dolmens are kinda empty.few people go there just for achievment.

So if it becomes more attractive with xp boosts or somthing more people will visit the dead empty cyrodil.

daemonios

Father wrote: »

Yeah but think about ganking people doing quests. back at launch I used to go to these questing areas and start ganking people and also get ganked while questing its fun >.<
Right now these villages and daily quests and dolmens are kinda empty.few people go there just for achievment.

So if it becomes more attractive with xp boosts or somthing more people will visit the dead empty cyrodil.

Oh my, you made me remember the time I killed my first VR14 in Cropsford Was great fun to go far behind enemy lines, sneak about town, trying to see if the coast was clear to hand in my quests!

timidobserver

The problem with pvp is the divide between players. Some groups of players just destroy other players in bunches all day long. Others only get a few kills an hour. That makes it kind of hard to balance XP.

Alphashado

Father wrote: »

Yeah but think about ganking people doing quests. back at launch I used to go to these questing areas and start ganking people and also get ganked while questing its fun >.<
Right now these villages and daily quests and dolmens are kinda empty.few people go there just for achievment.

So if it becomes more attractive with xp boosts or somthing more people will visit the dead empty cyrodil.

That's true. I remember back when the quests were all repeatable and towns like Bruma were loading with people. There was a bunch of ganking and small scale PvP going on, thats for sure and it was fun indeed. I had forgotten how much XP you could get by repeating those quests. They should just switch that back to the way it was and be done with it.

I can't for the life of me understand why zos is so dead set against people earning good XP in Cyrodiil w/o having to be in a stupid Zerg ball. It's frustratingly stupid the way it's set up now and it was sooo much better back then. It was more fun, supplied more options, made leveling up in Cyrodiil an actual viable option, brought ALOT more people into Cyrodiil, and was likely STILL slower XP gain than most grinding spots.

Even if they capped the daily turn ins to 10 per day, that would make a HUGE difference and would still moderate it enough to avoid it getting abused. I don't ever see anyone doing those quests anymore. All of the nice little towns and villages in Cyrodiil are absolute ghost towns. What a waste. As you mentioned, man those little towns were fun way back when things made sense.

The more I think about it, the more I believe you hit the nail on the head.

Restore all those quests to repeatable and watch Cyrodiil's population explode again.

Garwulf

olsborg wrote: »

XP gain in pvp worries me, because it is almost noneexistant. Player kills need to be tripled, atleast, the pvp quests (kill players, classes, scout etc) need to be repeatable at a much higher rate then atm, and give more xp then it currently does.

Personally I would like to se no XP gain in PVP. That would stop the EP 'RED' exploit AP farmers in their tracks.
I have been in fights AD vs DC with several raids against each other and there is essentially no lag. Skills all work .
Conversely AD vs EP, even just a raid of EP, and you just sit there with your skills not working. The faction with the greatest number on the flag wins.

Lionxoft

Champion points should have been accrued via a feat system or achievements earned from completing certain tasks etc in end-game content. Accruing champion points from straight xp is just lazy and the lack of creativity is frustrating. @ZOS_MariaAliprando @ZOS_PaulSage

Lionxoft

Garwulf wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

XP gain in pvp worries me, because it is almost noneexistant. Player kills need to be tripled, atleast, the pvp quests (kill players, classes, scout etc) need to be repeatable at a much higher rate then atm, and give more xp then it currently does.

Personally I would like to se no XP gain in PVP. That would stop the EP 'RED' exploit AP farmers in their tracks.
I have been in fights AD vs DC with several raids against each other and there is essentially no lag. Skills all work .
Conversely AD vs EP, even just a raid of EP, and you just sit there with your skills not working. The faction with the greatest number on the flag wins.

The xp accrual from just killing enemy players is really insignificant. There are many factors that come into play with that conclusion. Turning in PvP quests is still the best way to level in PvP however the kill enemy players quests have cooldowns after so many are completed and there's not many quests to complete when you own the entire map. Though there is another...

Another poor decision by ZOS was to not include quest/bounty boards inside of each keep. A lot of groups frown upon going back to the board to turn in quests after completion. It's just not a good design however I expect that much from ZOS these days.

Francescolg

I think in bomb groups you do 200 k+ in one evening. An average single pvp player does that in 1-2 weeks. So, this player will be more attracted by PvE CP farming and therefore leave PvP. PvP will shrink to group-style. This is good for PvP but less entertaining, since randoms bring so much fun (NPC pulling, etc.). I'd miss that.

LonePirate

Alphashado wrote: »

Father wrote: »

Yeah but think about ganking people doing quests. back at launch I used to go to these questing areas and start ganking people and also get ganked while questing its fun >.<
Right now these villages and daily quests and dolmens are kinda empty.few people go there just for achievment.

So if it becomes more attractive with xp boosts or somthing more people will visit the dead empty cyrodil.

That's true. I remember back when the quests were all repeatable and towns like Bruma were loading with people. There was a bunch of ganking and small scale PvP going on, thats for sure and it was fun indeed. I had forgotten how much XP you could get by repeating those quests. They should just switch that back to the way it was and be done with it.

I can't for the life of me understand why zos is so dead set against people earning good XP in Cyrodiil w/o having to be in a stupid Zerg ball. It's frustratingly stupid the way it's set up now and it was sooo much better back then. It was more fun, supplied more options, made leveling up in Cyrodiil an actual viable option, brought ALOT more people into Cyrodiil, and was likely STILL slower XP gain than most grinding spots.

Even if they capped the daily turn ins to 10 per day, that would make a HUGE difference and would still moderate it enough to avoid it getting abused. I don't ever see anyone doing those quests anymore. All of the nice little towns and villages in Cyrodiil are absolute ghost towns. What a waste. As you mentioned, man those little towns were fun way back when things made sense.

The more I think about it, the more I believe you hit the nail on the head.

Restore all those quests to repeatable and watch Cyrodiil's population explode again.

The five kill players quests and 48 or so quests from the five Cyrodiil city hubs can be completed once every single day. Or by repeatable, do you mean being able to complete the same quest multiple times each day, like the PVP capture quests and the Fighters Guild bounty quests?

felinith66

Scotia wrote: »

In today's live the question was asked, exp gain in Cyrodiil, they said that exp gain was pretty good in looking at the players receiving experience, and they have no plans to change it as it was upped in 1.5.

They also said that about Sorcs prior to 1.6

Seldom do they implement what they say in these shows. So, who knows, maybe they'll change their minds yet again.

Alphashado

LonePirate wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Father wrote: »

Yeah but think about ganking people doing quests. back at launch I used to go to these questing areas and start ganking people and also get ganked while questing its fun >.<
Right now these villages and daily quests and dolmens are kinda empty.few people go there just for achievment.

So if it becomes more attractive with xp boosts or somthing more people will visit the dead empty cyrodil.

That's true. I remember back when the quests were all repeatable and towns like Bruma were loading with people. There was a bunch of ganking and small scale PvP going on, thats for sure and it was fun indeed. I had forgotten how much XP you could get by repeating those quests. They should just switch that back to the way it was and be done with it.

I can't for the life of me understand why zos is so dead set against people earning good XP in Cyrodiil w/o having to be in a stupid Zerg ball. It's frustratingly stupid the way it's set up now and it was sooo much better back then. It was more fun, supplied more options, made leveling up in Cyrodiil an actual viable option, brought ALOT more people into Cyrodiil, and was likely STILL slower XP gain than most grinding spots.

Even if they capped the daily turn ins to 10 per day, that would make a HUGE difference and would still moderate it enough to avoid it getting abused. I don't ever see anyone doing those quests anymore. All of the nice little towns and villages in Cyrodiil are absolute ghost towns. What a waste. As you mentioned, man those little towns were fun way back when things made sense.

The more I think about it, the more I believe you hit the nail on the head.

Restore all those quests to repeatable and watch Cyrodiil's population explode again.

The five kill players quests and 48 or so quests from the five Cyrodiil city hubs can be completed once every single day. Or by repeatable, do you mean being able to complete the same quest multiple times each day, like the PVP capture quests and the Fighters Guild bounty quests?

Yeah. Let's just use the kill player daily as an example. First they reduced the amount of XP awarded, then they made it a daily instead of repeatable, then they made it class specific. All of those changes were intentionally designed to nerf XP gain in Cyrodiil.

What was wrong with "kill 20 players of any class"? Was it really so "omg OP", that it needed to be changed? By making it class specific, it takes exactly 4 times longer to complete the quest. Kill 20 players is vastly more popular than Kill 20 Templars. So much so in fact that people will happily ditch Kill 20 Templars in exchange for someone in the group that can share Kill 20 players.

It was a senseless nerf. ZoS should switch it back to Kill 20 players only, get rid of the class specific quests, and make it repeatable with a cap of 10 or 20 per day.

Same thing with the Cyrodiil PvE quests. Take Bruma for example. The place used to be incredibly active because people would be able to repeat the handful of quests there. ZoS had a conniption because people were getting "too much" XP by being able to simply repeat the same quests, so they made them all dailies instead. Now nobody even goes there. It's a ghost town. It's just not worth it to ride your horse all over Cyrodiil from town to town just to do each quest once.

Being able to repeat these quests wasn't hurting anyone and it brought a ton of people into Cyrodiil because it was a viable way to earn XP at a decent rate. Heck, even people that didn't like PvP were going into Cyrodiil for the repeatable quests.

And if ZoS is so concerned about this being abused again, they could just put a cap on how many times a quest can be repeated. Make it 10-20 times per quest per day and everyone would be happy.

They need to create reasons for people to come in to Cyrodiil again and quit creating reasons for people not to go there anymore. As the old saying goes, you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and right now Cyrodiil is overflowing with vinegar.

Snit

ZOS needs to unscrew the Cyrodiil quests, PvP and PvE alike. They can draw more people into Cyrodiil. Better yet, these people will be spread out over the map, questing, not balled up in a zerg around Allesia Mine.