Boundless Storm or Thundering Presence in 1.6 for PVE/PVP?

Voltos

I'm creating a stamina build for 1.6, and was curious which one the community preferred. I've always used Boundless Storm in the past, but with the changes to the Storm Calling tree, I'm worried about my magicka sustain and keeping it up 100% of the time.

Is the extended duration of Thundering Presence worth losing the mobility of Boundless Storm for pve/pvp?

Teargrants

With the changes to armor ratings, lightning form will give about ~8% dmg mitigation. I'd say you're better off saving your magicka for bolt escape and shields.

GreyRanger

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

Teargrants

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

^ This. Enjoy your more expensive storm calling and useless bound armor along with non stackable crit surge + rally. =\

Mumyo

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

Sorc syndrom. Whatever it is... sorc is so bad mimi.

8% dmg mitigation is not bad. I fought some sorcs on the pts and even on live sorc can awesomly use stamina.
Its just the majority of the players that dont know how.
Sorc differs in terms of the shiled which scales off magicka.
U need a magicka stamina hybrid as other classes go for health/stamina.
U have exact the same circumstances as the templar, except that the templar has a shield which hits back but can be avoided or blocked by any good player.(blocked in 1.6).
Ur passives are nearly the same and even more usefull in some cases.
My very effective build only has 2 class abilities in it as templar. Purge and Shield.
U can use the exact same and in 1.6 i dont see any point why this shouldnt work aswell.
And pls dont say jabs here because they now grant u free cc immunity.

Flaminir

Mumyo wrote: »

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

Sorc syndrom. Whatever it is... sorc is so bad mimi.

8% dmg mitigation is not bad. I fought some sorcs on the pts and even on live sorc can awesomly use stamina.
Its just the majority of the players that dont know how.
Sorc differs in terms of the shiled which scales off magicka.
U need a magicka stamina hybrid as other classes go for health/stamina.
U have exact the same circumstances as the templar, except that the templar has a shield which hits back but can be avoided or blocked by any good player.(blocked in 1.6).
Ur passives are nearly the same and even more usefull in some cases.
My very effective build only has 2 class abilities in it as templar. Purge and Shield.
U can use the exact same and in 1.6 i dont see any point why this shouldnt work aswell.
And pls dont say jabs here because they now grant u free cc immunity.

Not correct... hybrid builds are going to be exceptionally weak when 1.6 hits in comparison to either pure magicka or pure stamina due to the removal of softcaps....

This has been discussed to death in other threads, it may be worth having a look.

& 8% mitigation is bad in comparison to the alternatives in the majority of cases.... shields are still a more effective option... and the stamina sorc has to choose very carefully now with the increased costs & limted magicka pool.

Mumyo

Flaminir wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

Sorc syndrom. Whatever it is... sorc is so bad mimi.

8% dmg mitigation is not bad. I fought some sorcs on the pts and even on live sorc can awesomly use stamina.
Its just the majority of the players that dont know how.
Sorc differs in terms of the shiled which scales off magicka.
U need a magicka stamina hybrid as other classes go for health/stamina.
U have exact the same circumstances as the templar, except that the templar has a shield which hits back but can be avoided or blocked by any good player.(blocked in 1.6).
Ur passives are nearly the same and even more usefull in some cases.
My very effective build only has 2 class abilities in it as templar. Purge and Shield.
U can use the exact same and in 1.6 i dont see any point why this shouldnt work aswell.
And pls dont say jabs here because they now grant u free cc immunity.

Not correct... hybrid builds are going to be exceptionally weak when 1.6 hits in comparison to either pure magicka or pure stamina due to the removal of softcaps....

This has been discussed to death in other threads, it may be worth having a look.

Agree here but the "health/Stamina" hybrid will is also pretty dead why our shields are pretty bad in comparison to live.
the magicka is only needed for the shield in this case but i guess only good testing can help us out.

Flaminir

Mumyo wrote: »

Agree here but the "health/Stamina" hybrid will is also pretty dead why our shields are pretty bad in comparison to live.
the magicka is only needed for the shield in this case but i guess only good testing can help us out.

Just for the sake of clarity when people talk about 'hybrid' builds they aren't referring to Health & stamina as a hybrid as you mention.

Health is a given.

The choice is between Magicka & Stamina as these are the resources that abilities work from.....

Mumyo

Flaminir wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Agree here but the "health/Stamina" hybrid will is also pretty dead why our shields are pretty bad in comparison to live.
the magicka is only needed for the shield in this case but i guess only good testing can help us out.

Just for the sake of clarity when people talk about 'hybrid' builds they aren't referring to Health & stamina as a hybrid as you mention.

Health is a given.

The choice is between Magicka & Stamina as these are the resources that abilities work from.....

Thats what i meant with magicka/Stamina because the only reason why i as a templar go Health/Stamina is the shield which scales off max health and urs as sorc scales off Magicka.

sabresandiego_ESO

Boundless storm for PVP. Its worth using on a stamina build. The increased move speed is very useful and the graphics do a good job of hiding your animations.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Mumyo wrote: »

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

Sorc syndrom. Whatever it is... sorc is so bad mimi.

8% dmg mitigation is not bad. I fought some sorcs on the pts and even on live sorc can awesomly use stamina.
Its just the majority of the players that dont know how.
Sorc differs in terms of the shiled which scales off magicka.
U need a magicka stamina hybrid as other classes go for health/stamina.
U have exact the same circumstances as the templar, except that the templar has a shield which hits back but can be avoided or blocked by any good player.(blocked in 1.6).
Ur passives are nearly the same and even more usefull in some cases.
My very effective build only has 2 class abilities in it as templar. Purge and Shield.
U can use the exact same and in 1.6 i dont see any point why this shouldnt work aswell.
And pls dont say jabs here because they now grant u free cc immunity.

that bolded quote really sums it all up----

THERE IS ZERO CLASS DIVERSIFICATION.

In this game it seems that your WEAPON TYPE is greater than CLASS ABILITY.

You hardly see people use their CLASS abilities, rather-- people use weapon abilities and other skills lines.

So ask yourself this question-- whats diff in a 2h stam sorc and a 2h stam DK as an example?

Not much--- most skills used are 2H skills lol (IE Butcher Build)

My resolution for this is to make CLASS BASED weapon skills as well.

This would mean that every weapon gives totally DIFFERENT powers to every class.

No longer would every class have access to the current weapon powers, rather every weapon would offer unique powers only available to that class.

Alcast

Teargrants wrote: »

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

^ This. Enjoy your more expensive storm calling and useless bound armor along with non stackable crit surge + rally. =\

bound armor gives you 8% stam? It is good, but sure just ditch it.

Snit

Thundering Presence is probably better. You're likely to have magicka regeneration issues if you optimize for Stamina DPS, and Thundering Presence is more magicka-efficient. You can largely make up for the lost movement speed with a stamina-based gap closer, or even Bolt Escape.

If you plan to rely on Critical Surge for the heals, however, any Lightning Form morph will reduce your healing. The dot tics can eat the cooldown.

I'd skip shields. Your magicka pool will make them tiny. Instead, bolster your health and use the new Clannfear heal. It's clunky, but it scales with max health. Health and Mitigation synergize better than Mitigation and Damage Shields.

As Teargrants said, sorcs probably make the worst stamina builds now. ZOS has said they plan to address that at some point, so you're making a bit of a leap of faith.

Mumyo

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

Sorc syndrom. Whatever it is... sorc is so bad mimi.

8% dmg mitigation is not bad. I fought some sorcs on the pts and even on live sorc can awesomly use stamina.
Its just the majority of the players that dont know how.
Sorc differs in terms of the shiled which scales off magicka.
U need a magicka stamina hybrid as other classes go for health/stamina.
U have exact the same circumstances as the templar, except that the templar has a shield which hits back but can be avoided or blocked by any good player.(blocked in 1.6).
Ur passives are nearly the same and even more usefull in some cases.
My very effective build only has 2 class abilities in it as templar. Purge and Shield.
U can use the exact same and in 1.6 i dont see any point why this shouldnt work aswell.
And pls dont say jabs here because they now grant u free cc immunity.

that bolded quote really sums it all up----

THERE IS ZERO CLASS DIVERSIFICATION.

In this game it seems that your WEAPON TYPE is greater than CLASS ABILITY.

You hardly see people use their CLASS abilities, rather-- people use weapon abilities and other skills lines.

So ask yourself this question-- whats diff in a 2h stam sorc and a 2h stam DK as an example?

Not much--- most skills used are 2H skills lol (IE Butcher Build)

My resolution for this is to make CLASS BASED weapon skills as well.

This would mean that every weapon gives totally DIFFERENT powers to every class.

No longer would every class have access to the current weapon powers, rather every weapon would offer unique powers only available to that class.

Stamina morphs offer such thing, staminabased jabs were such a option but thanks to zos u grant everyone free cc immunity using it so i will make up my mind twice here.

dks also have some nice dots with good effects.
nevertheless, Momentum seems to be a must have on first sight but lets see what 1.6 offers in addition. The most dmg u gain from dual wield but momentum still awesome here on the 2nd bar.
Backlash will also be seen pretty often, at least i hope so from stamina templars.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Mumyo wrote: »

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

GreyRanger wrote: »

You might take a look the many ways in which the stamina sorcerer have gotten nerfed to the ground. I have a stamina sorcerer and I wont be playing him under 1.6. There are other classes that synergize much better with a stamina build.

If want to create do it, I agree with Teargrants, start with shiedls.

Sorc syndrom. Whatever it is... sorc is so bad mimi.

8% dmg mitigation is not bad. I fought some sorcs on the pts and even on live sorc can awesomly use stamina.
Its just the majority of the players that dont know how.
Sorc differs in terms of the shiled which scales off magicka.
U need a magicka stamina hybrid as other classes go for health/stamina.
U have exact the same circumstances as the templar, except that the templar has a shield which hits back but can be avoided or blocked by any good player.(blocked in 1.6).
Ur passives are nearly the same and even more usefull in some cases.
My very effective build only has 2 class abilities in it as templar. Purge and Shield.
U can use the exact same and in 1.6 i dont see any point why this shouldnt work aswell.
And pls dont say jabs here because they now grant u free cc immunity.

that bolded quote really sums it all up----

THERE IS ZERO CLASS DIVERSIFICATION.

In this game it seems that your WEAPON TYPE is greater than CLASS ABILITY.

You hardly see people use their CLASS abilities, rather-- people use weapon abilities and other skills lines.

So ask yourself this question-- whats diff in a 2h stam sorc and a 2h stam DK as an example?

Not much--- most skills used are 2H skills lol (IE Butcher Build)

My resolution for this is to make CLASS BASED weapon skills as well.

This would mean that every weapon gives totally DIFFERENT powers to every class.

No longer would every class have access to the current weapon powers, rather every weapon would offer unique powers only available to that class.

Stamina morphs offer such thing, staminabased jabs were such a option but thanks to zos u grant everyone free cc immunity using it so i will make up my mind twice here.

dks also have some nice dots with good effects.
nevertheless, Momentum seems to be a must have on first sight but lets see what 1.6 offers in addition. The most dmg u gain from dual wield but momentum still awesome here on the 2nd bar.
Backlash will also be seen pretty often, at least i hope so from stamina templars.

right--- but when u look at everyones skill bar-- the majority of those 6 slots aren't CLASS powers-- they are weapon powers.

SO when u compare lets say a 2h sorc to a 2h DK-- whats the real difference?

they both now will take-- rally--wrecking blow--the 2h charge- X and Y and and Ultimate, of which many 2h users now will take fighter guild ult.

I propose not just class stam/mag morphs-- but totally different weapon powers that are unique to the class that holds it.

also-- in re to class stam/mag morphs-- every skill should get either a stam or mag morph. As it stnds now--- the mag morphs far outnumber the stam morphs. And in the case of a melee sorc-- Im guessing that's the issue now as it costs way too much mag to maintain anything beneficial for the sorc, as well as the nerf to crit surge----
of which I don't know why that was even done.

Mumyo

I do agree here @kokoandshinb14a_ESO .
If i got you right, mixes as the ones you wish were partly existent in the previous patches like specific attacks scaling off weapon dmg or melee crit.
I allways had the wish to play my templar with 1 or 2 staminaattacks but the matter was that they scaled off a total different stat like stamina and weapondamage.
Jabs were bound to meleecrit which granted the possibility to wear medium armor as some sort of meleecaster but the price was way too high.
Now its stamina or magicka only and those ideas are totally extinguished.
I once had an awesome jab/magicka build with stampede for the 100% snare in it. It was the strongest magickabuild i ever had with an awesome supportive stamina skill but that was destroyed as soon as they noticed what strength it offered.

Weng

I use boundless storm for the in combat speed buff. Damage mitigation and dot damage are a nice addition (maybe disintegration procs )

Contrary to live I didn't put any attribute points into magicka on PTS, but I did a test with exactly the same gear. Just for testing purposes I did a rotation with boundless storm and three streaks in a row. On live I end up with 17% Magicka (11 attribute points in magicka) on PTS I had to spend 20 CP for 6% Magicka cost reduction and end up with 14% Magicka (0 attribute points in magicka).

Voltos

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Boundless storm for PVP. Its worth using on a stamina build. The increased move speed is very useful and the graphics do a good job of hiding your animations.

Thank you all for the feedback.

I'm mostly considering either Boundless Storm or Thundering Presence for PVE purposes, but didn't want to shoot myself in the foot if I decided to use it for PVP as well. I'm really torn. I wish we could have both morphs.

Snit wrote: »

Thundering Presence is probably better. You're likely to have magicka regeneration issues if you optimize for Stamina DPS, and Thundering Presence is more magicka-efficient. You can largely make up for the lost movement speed with a stamina-based gap closer, or even Bolt Escape.

If you plan to rely on Critical Surge for the heals, however, any Lightning Form morph will reduce your healing. The dot tics can eat the cooldown.

I'd skip shields. Your magicka pool will make them tiny. Instead, bolster your health and use the new Clannfear heal. It's clunky, but it scales with max health. Health and Mitigation synergize better than Mitigation and Damage Shields.

As Teargrants said, sorcs probably make the worst stamina builds now. ZOS has said they plan to address that at some point, so you're making a bit of a leap of faith.

Thank you, Snit. If I was exclusively PVE, this is exactly what I would do, but I do intend to PVP pretty heavily. Even though, Lightning Form isn't a part of my PVP build atm, I can't decide what I want to do.