ZOS, is there anything we can do to convince you not to go live with this Champion System?

hazune

Robbmrp

Ryuho wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I dont like the champion system at all. It's a system that rewards grinding and time played more so then vet ranks. Vet ranks were tolerable, but champ system will widen the gap.

Instead of beating a player because your more skilled, you will beat a player because you have more Champ points. It cheapens the experience and just shifts the game from a gear grind to a champ point bonus grind.

Champ points create enough of a gap that even more skilled better players will not be able to overcome the handicaps until everyone has the same amount if points, being 3600.

I'm sorry but just because you play more then someone else shouldn't give you a comparable advantage and edge. Does a casino give extra advantages and favor to the black jack player that plays every night to the guy that just walked in the door?

I know, people want to feel like their time spent in game matters, they feel they should be entitled to something that separates them from the casuals, but this isn't the right way to go about it. I'm not saying folks who play the most shouldn't have something to show for it, but giving considerable comparituve advantages and in essence stacking the deck in their favor with champ points is the wrong way to go about it.

ZOS really needs to cap CP at a set amount that can be earned o'er day, because their are many people who have no job, don't work, and rarely leave their houses and all they will do is sit around and grind points and account share to get as many as possible, the writing is on the wall.

Totally agree.. Especially with this: ''It's a system that rewards grinding and time played more so then vet ranks."

From pure pvp view, i think for ~ 2 - 3 months, with new builds etc., pvp will be realy cool, but later, when grinders get 200 - 300 CP more than me, a casual pvper (i log in only to play pvp for 2 - 3 hrs daily and only cyro keeps my sub up) CP balance will be gone..

I agree with you both. By the time the Console release hits people won't be in Cyrodil at all as there will be too great of a gap. I would like to be able to go in there and get Skyshards, complete quests and Delves without having to worry about not being able to take on someone 1v1 when with the CP gap it will be more like 1/4v1 power level. I guess this means I will have to push to complete those as fast as possible before it gets that bad. It WILL be that bad I think within 6 months and not 1-3 years.

spoqster

Lied wrote: »

I can't think of a single MMO where power creep positively influenced PvP. No, you can't make everyone happy, but the pro-normalization/bolstering side always wins against the linear progression side eventually. It's like watching the same movie plot over and over.

If I wasn't so lazy I'd dig up some posts from other game forums that always go a little something like this:
Player-A: "Pssst... nobody is going to PvP and get instagibbed for x-period of time while they wait for their character's math to allow them to compete."
Player-B: "Nu-uh, I did, they can suck it up, how much sense would it make for them to be as powerful as my veteran world-eater on day-1?" (usually but not exclusively from a character that was capped before such a discrepancy existed)
<fast forward 1 year after PvP population declined at a rate faster than PvE population>
Developer: Next super exciting patch! Introducing improvements to PvP, such as:
Added or improved bolstering/underdog mechanic!
Made competitive PvP gear easier to acquire!
New PvP gear from crafting/PvE!
New restrictions on premade queues!
Noob friendly bracket/ELO formula! (if you actually have enough players to split up)

Over and over. Because, in practice, all Player-B's in MMOs need all the Player-A's to participate in PvP in order for PvP to thrive. The only way ultra-competitive PvP can thrive over time is if those players are playing exclusively against other players just like themselves and not against severely handicapped players. Ironically, in this ideal situation that precious advantage some people love is completely negated anyway because their opponents have the same setup they do.

It's just a damn shame that this never ending learning cycle always has to have a period where the PvP population drops before triage is done.

Yes, exactly.

You don't need to be a genius to understand the principles of good game mechanics. Normally the hard things to get right are all the little details, the animations, the combat experience, the balance. They did a great job on those. The skills and animations make the game so much fun, the graphics and atmosphere are great and they've created all this fantastic content. And they've improved the balance to a point where it's a lot of fun to play.

But they make one questionable gameplay decision after the other. They seem to be driven by fear and worries rather than vision and creativity.

I love this game too much to keep to myself.

Just accept the fact that you need a level playing field to create an infectious PVP experience, and split up character progression and PVP. Players should be good at PVP because they have more skill or make better build choices, not because they have more attribute points and better damage modifiers.

Stop appeasing the no-lifers, they don't have money to buy anything if they spend 12 hrs a day in game. Make the game fun for everyone, to attract players and then monetize these players by selling great content.

Don't waste your time creating grind mechanics and balancing loops. Game development should be a content race. Inspire your designers to create better story lines, more challenging dungeons and more fantastic armor. If you want to make a lot of money, create a good product.

Aimelin

Why are there so many people that think it'll take -YEARS- to get 3600 cp? i'm sure that some people, at 2-4 weeks in, will have a huge amount of CP allready due to some hidden xp exploit no one wanted to /bug on the pts, why do i think so? Look at older patches & xp exploits, it's gonna happen, and then what?

BlackEar

The main problem is the PVP aspect. Could we not just keep it out of Cyordiil?

The fact is, a few people with a lot of time on their hand is going to be able to ruin it for the majority of players.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

I loled at "to vertical" that's hilarious. The Champ system is just fine, everyone has the same chances to put the same points in the same abilities.

WhiskyBob

Regarding to the OP

I have posted this photoshop quickie somewhere else but it fits right in. And more are coming.



Poster source

WhiskyBob

Doublepost

Kragorn

Lied wrote: »

I can't think of a single MMO where power creep positively influenced PvP. No, you can't make everyone happy, but the pro-normalization/bolstering side always wins against the linear progression side eventually. It's like watching the same movie plot over and over.

The result is always like this because the numbers of "ultra-competitive" players is miniscule and totally insufficient to sustain a game not entirely F2P.

It's like raiding, the numbers of 'bleeding edge' raiders is equally tiny and without the support of the vast majority, who many of the elitists deride as 'noobs', there'd BE no game for the elitists at all!

Lied

BlackEar wrote: »

The main problem is the PVP aspect. Could we not just keep it out of Cyordiil?

The fact is, a few people with a lot of time on their hand is going to be able to ruin it for the majority of players.

I was watching one of the recent ESO Live's where one guy said they were eventually wanting to put in some sort of representation of the number of CPs a character had so that players would be able to judge if they wanted to engage with a player they'd likely get destroyed by. If this sort of thing happened and, more importantly, was necessary then more people will stay out of PvP entirely until they can compete, which might not ever happen. I certainly wouldn't want my PvP population to depend on the number of people that pick up the game and stay for a year first.

Maybe they think that small scale/scheduled PvP in the future could match-make based on CP/gear-score or whatever. Which might work if ESO had like 10x the number of players that it does to adequately feed match-making. I guess we'll see, but so far it looks like things are being staged for a classic and predictable problem that they are creating and not mitigating. I'm pretty sure they'll eventually sort it out, but there's just too much history out there for devs not to be learning from countless previous mistakes regarding this same issue.

ZOS, please don't just hope for the best and wait for the problem to fully bloom before you start planning on how to fix it.