Champion System: DR and cookiecutter

Sumpfheini

Dear readers,

I want to point out a few flaws I found in the new champion system that occur if you want to optimize your champion point spending.

Now let say first: Not everyone tries to only go for the most potent spec and best allocation of skill/stat/champion-points. Yet even if you are like me and try a lot of different builds (and some of them are pretty weird) I predict you will quickly feel tunneled into certain choices in the champion system if you want to get reasonable bang for your bucks.

One of the reasons is diminishing returns. Obviously with systems that increase stats by a percentage you need this system to prevent exponential scaling. Now if you like to focus in one tree/champion to unlock the higher powers, this suggests that you invest your points in several perks on your way up there.


As example let's take the apprentice: You want to get the Spell Critical power after 30 invested points. Now you could either dump all your 30 points into e.g. Spell Erosion/Elfborn for a 10.8% increase, or you distribute them evenly for a 6.9% increase each. In this example the difference is marginal, yet you reduce the effect of diminishing returns on your power gain and the more you invest, the more it is a good idea to distibute the stats if you have the choice of similar impactful stats.

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Now this brings me to my next point: If you have the choice! If you look at the champion trees it is apparent that some of them offer much better choices than others.

Here I want to present the Atronach as a particuarly weak one: All perks have the theme of increasing the light/heavy weapon attacks of a certain type. Most players don't use standard attacks in the same frequency on different weapons, it is therefore probably better to focus on one perk and put all points into one weapon type. But this again gives you less because of diminishing returns, but well..what choice do you have?

Let's look at the neighbouring champion tree: The Ritual. Not only have you several choices of perks (Armor Penetration, +% Physical Damage, Crit Damage) that make distributing points very viable, in this case these perks are also much stronger (10% more total physical damage vs. 10% light/heavy attack damage for the same amount of points). If you think of the DR penalty of heavily investing in The Atronach and the choice of several better perks in The Ritual it becomes very clear that you are pidgeonholed into chosing the latter.

This is true for several trees (although not so clearly as in this example). Another one would be The Lady/Steed for tanks.

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Obviously it is almost impossible to perfectly balance so many trees, yet I think some of these worst offenders (like the Atronach) are easily circumvented. E.g. cosolidate the heavy/light increase into one or two perks and give meaningful alternatives to bring it closer to other champion trees.


Thank you for staying with me and maybe someone from ZOS ( @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ ?^^) will have another look at the perks to prepare for balancing changes.

C0pp3rhead

Tower and Atronach, possibly the Lover as well are the constellations where your choices to distribute points is limited. However, this goes back to your argument about diminishing returns. There many be only one perk I would like from the Atronach, but many I would like from the Apprentice. There, I have a choice. Do I want to:
(a.) distribute my points evenly, getting the most bang for my buck, but put off the 120pt bonus till later?
(b.) invest my points into only one constellation, suffering diminished returns on my bonuses, in exchange for a 120pt bonus?

This is a very real choice.

Moreover, I find your argument that cookie-cutter builds becoming a problem to be hyperbolic. Certainly, we need to have the role that we want to play in mind when choosing our CP. I want to be able to heal, but I want to also do magicka-based dps if I need to. There are plenty of cost reduction, +staff dmg, +spell crit, and light armor passives that benefit both playstyles. Will I be able to alternate between magicka and stamina based dps? Probably not. Will a player have the option to heal or deal magicka-based dps? Certainly. Tank or Stam-dps? Do-able. Later after players have more CP, they will be able to branch out a little more.

Sumpfheini

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

There, I have a choice. Do I want to:
(a.) distribute my points evenly, getting the most bang for my buck, but put off the 120pt bonus till later?
(b.) invest my points into only one constellation, suffering diminished returns on my bonuses, in exchange for a 120pt bonus?

Ah there is an error here. You also progress to your 120pt goal if you distribute your points, they count cumulative. There is no disadvantage in distributing your points.

C0pp3rhead

Sumpfheini wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

There, I have a choice. Do I want to:
(a.) distribute my points evenly, getting the most bang for my buck, but put off the 120pt bonus till later?
(b.) invest my points into only one constellation, suffering diminished returns on my bonuses, in exchange for a 120pt bonus?

Ah there is an error here. You also progress to your 120pt goal if you distribute your points, they count cumulative. There is no disadvantage in distributing your points.

Distributing them between constellations, not within constellations.