"Old" Ingredients still only sell for 10g.. even though new ingredients are 150g? Answered

MissBizz

Gina answered this post on the second comment. Due to worries of the economy, this change is intended. Old ingredients will be selling for 10 gold.

I am wondering if you guys just forgot to change this.. or intentionally left it this way.

Originally, "old" items sold for 10g, and new items could be purchased for 10g. Therefore you could replace you're "old" ingredients with new ones.

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy that brewers/chefs no longer sell ingredients. I am happy grocers only sell fresh produce. I am happy the ingredients now cost 150 gold. (I am actually EXTREMELY happy all these changes were made)

Many players read awhile back that our old ingredients would be worth something. Have to sell 15 "old" ingredients to purchase ONE new ingredient.. is not worth something. I believe it was actually stated somewhere that old ingredients would sell for the cost of new ingredients.. but I can't link it so I could be wrong.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

[EDIT]
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1484150#Comment_1484150 - Linked.

MSchroeder wrote: »

I’d like to take a moment and address some of the questions that have come up in this thread so far. We’re all excited to hear your feedback, and I wanted to allay a few fears. Some of this is information we’ve shared before, but I figured it would be helpful to address as much as possible here.

...

1. “What happens to all of my ingredients? How do I get new ingredients I might need?”

Some ingredients will be marked as “Old”. They will no longer be used in Provisioning. However, we’ve set their value to be the same as the price of buying a new ingredient. Grocers will be selling ALL non-rare ingredients, so visiting one is recommended as a one-stop shop for your Provisioning needs. Further, Chefs will be selling all non-rare Food ingredients, and Brewers will be selling all non-rare Drink ingredients. We'll be monitoring the price of player-sold Provisioning items, as well as feedback on this and other forums, to see if and when this pricing schema should change.

Those ingredients that aren’t becoming “Old” or “Stale” will remain useful in Provisioning. However, their names and icons might change. For instance, this is the case with Oats and Tomatoes, generally considered the rarest of all Provisioning ingredients today. After the revamp, they will still be required for purple recipes, but they will change icons and names. So don’t rush off and sell all your tomatoes and oats, thinking they will become commonplace!

Of course, there are many other ways to get ingredients, as well. Like we mentioned in the article, you can now skin fish for use in meat dishes. As ever, you can check in crates, barrels, boxes, and many other places to find spare ingredients just lying around – though now this may incur the wrath of justice. You’ll also find provisioning materials on critters in the wild, as well as receiving materials of all kinds from your Hirelings and any Writs you complete.
.

Obviously things change.. like all ingredients being available for sale. I'm okay with that. I would just like to ensure this new pricing scheme is intended.

xaraan

I believe they let this slip by when they raised the price of new ingredients in 1.6.2. Hopefully the fix it as it would be a shame to sell ten different stacks of old ingredients (including pepper which used to sell for A LOT in guild stores) and not even be able to buy one stack of bananas.

ZOS_GinaBruno

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

Kragorn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

So is this a reversal of what you said that the old ingredients would sell for EXACTLY the price of the replacements?

Another ZOS U-turn except this is a direct nerf of our GOLD!

Flaminir

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

So is this a reversal of what you said that the old ingredients would sell for EXACTLY the price of the replacements?

Another ZOS U-turn except this is a direct nerf of our GOLD!

The (very) short answer is that.... yes, a U-turn!

Kinda glad I stockpiled.... we could have spotted this one a mile off!

Not that I'm necessarily against it... I'm just kinda curious as to how it will help the long term health of the economy?

I get that once they upped the cost of new ingredients to 150g they couldn't bring the sale price of old ingredients up to this.... we would have a huge economy inbalance as stacks and stacks of old ingredients went for 15k each.

But what specifically was the reason to increase the cost of new ingredients so dramatically in the first place?

Max2497

I understand that giving 150g per old item would result in flood of gold into the economy, but it would be nice if we could get a more reasonable exchange, like 25g per item. Or, better yet, make all items convert to new ingredients so nothing becomes old. No one says it needs to be a one to one conversion. Let bear haunch and pork convert to white meat, for example.

Elsonso

My feedback was that 150g was way too much for a carrot.

I would be interested in seeing their economy numbers. I think that this will result in very expensive crafted potions.

Kragorn

Flaminir wrote: »

The (very) short answer is that.... yes, a U-turn!

Kinda glad I stockpiled.... we could have spotted this one a mile off!

Not that I'm necessarily against it... I'm just kinda curious as to how it will help the long term health of the economy?

I get that once they upped the cost of new ingredients to 150g they couldn't bring the sale price of old ingredients up to this.... we would have a huge economy inbalance as stacks and stacks of old ingredients went for 15k each.

But what specifically was the reason to increase the cost of new ingredients so dramatically in the first place?

My big problem here it's ANOTHER example of ZOS making a statement that we believed would happen then turning round and saying "sorry guys, we said it but we're not going to do it, so deal with it" except they don't even have the decency to be straight with us, didn't come out with a clear announcement of the U-turn merely slipped it out in reply to a question (surely they didn't hope that we'd not notice?).

So, the list of ZOS U-turns gets longer.

ZOS, don't bother with any more "Road Aheads", clearly we the players would be foolish to believe anything you say until it actually happens.

Rosveen

I'm okay with that. It's entirely too easy to stockpile ingredients going old and sell them in bulk after the transition. However, I'm not sure if 150 is the right price for new ingredients. We'll see, I suppose.

robeauch

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

I don't doubt that this was done for a good reason, but I'm still curious about it. Would it be possible to get a less-short answer?

It sounds like my stack of 100 old ingredients is going to be worth six new ingredients and change. And I can deal with that if it's needed for the long-term health of the economy... I'd just like a better understanding of how a one-to-one ratio would be harmful.

Is there a concern that players might start amassing stacks of the non-rare ingredients now, with the intention of turning them into gold rather than buying the new ingredients? If that's it, maybe some kind of barter NPC would be better. You don't get *any* money for the old ingredients -- but you can swap them one-to-one for new ingredients.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Use up old ingredients by making and stockpiling foods, I heard purple honey brittle will convert into something really useful.

LtCrunch

robeauch wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

I don't doubt that this was done for a good reason, but I'm still curious about it. Would it be possible to get a less-short answer?

It sounds like my stack of 100 old ingredients is going to be worth six new ingredients and change. And I can deal with that if it's needed for the long-term health of the economy... I'd just like a better understanding of how a one-to-one ratio would be harmful.

Is there a concern that players might start amassing stacks of the non-rare ingredients now, with the intention of turning them into gold rather than buying the new ingredients? If that's it, maybe some kind of barter NPC would be better. You don't get *any* money for the old ingredients -- but you can swap them one-to-one for new ingredients.

I would be in favor of such a change, though I expect t it's too late in the PTS cycle for them to implement before update 6 hits live.

vovus69

I am also stockpiling stuff which will be needed for VR1-10 recipes. IMO, it will be hard to find in the wild. Will see how it will go.

Nazon_Katts

If gold had any use, I'd be upset. Are there any other things you are going to do differently than previously announced? You know, just out of respect, it would be nice to let us know beforehand.

Grao

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno, we are still waiting on the promised ZoS post concerning sorcerers. Can you toss us a bone or something or at least confirm the dev team is working on something? Also, when will NA get a character tranfer to the PTS?

MissBizz

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

Thank you very much for the prompt response! All I wanted was the short answer, so I'm happy with what you have provided for an answer

I'm cool with this. And let's not turn this into "they u-turned" discussion. Of course things change.

While I'm on the provisioning topic I'll just get out there my thoughts on the revisions..

I think it's good for provisioning for
1. recipes being harder to find
2. ingredients being (barely) harder to find. (Still VERY available in the wild, delves, dungeons etc.)
3. not all ingredients able to be purchased
4. ingredients costing more from vendors

Why?
Provisioning was WAY too easy. I had level 50 in provisioning by the time my character was level 15. I did not look up ways to level, or even try very hard... it was just easy. Now provisioning will be more difficult to take on.. therefore less people doing it.. therefore the end products may actually be worth something, and worth selling in guild stores. I enjoy that now we may be able to sell our ingredients (would have been pointless when they were all available except super rare, and were only 10 gold), and recipes (even greens) may actually be worth selling over just vendoring. Yes some recipes are worth quite a bit now, but I think even the more common ones may raise in price once these changes are implemented.

Bravo ZOS, as you have pleased me with these provisioning changes. Of course it sort of sucks that our old ingredients will sell for dirt cheap, but hey, it's a good point to watch out for our economy.

I believe that crafting needs to have some difficulty behind it in this game because we are allowed to do all crafts. I'm happy with the provisioning overhaul.

Rosveen

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Use up old ingredients by making and stockpiling foods, I heard purple honey brittle will convert into something really useful.

Consummate Honey Brittle and Sweetroll are converting into VR10 purple food.

Amdirial

When 1.6 first came to the PTS, the vendor mats were 10g, when 1.6.1 came the vendor mats were 150g.
Old items, still sold for 10g, this change was said to be intentional then, I don't think this is them going back on their word at all. It makes sense otherwise the economy would suffer.

GTech_1

My only issue with this change is:
Now a carrot costs more to buy from a vendor than the vendor sell value of a VR 11 green quality chest piece.

MissBizz

GTech_1 wrote: »

My only issue with this change is:
Now a carrot costs more to buy from a vendor than the vendor sell value of a VR 11 green quality chest piece.

That carrot is more useful to me than some green quality non set armor piece.

GTech_1

MissBizz wrote: »

GTech_1 wrote: »

My only issue with this change is:
Now a carrot costs more to buy from a vendor than the vendor sell value of a VR 11 green quality chest piece.

That carrot is more useful to me than some green quality non set armor piece.

If you have a better chest piece, then sure, the carrot is more useful to you ... but it's a carrot.
Not even an actual food in the game. Just a single ingredient.
Even made into a food, along with other ingredients, it only provides a temporary time-based buff.

With these prices, the citizens of Tamriel would starve to death ... but at least they would be decently armored corpses. lol

MissBizz

GTech_1 wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

GTech_1 wrote: »

My only issue with this change is:
Now a carrot costs more to buy from a vendor than the vendor sell value of a VR 11 green quality chest piece.

That carrot is more useful to me than some green quality non set armor piece.

If you have a better chest piece, then sure, the carrot is more useful to you ... but it's a carrot.
Not even an actual food in the game. Just a single ingredient.
Even made into a food, along with other ingredients, it only provides a temporary time-based buff.

With these prices, the citizens of Tamriel would starve to death ... but at least they would be decently armored corpses. lol

There's a war going on! Of course they will be well armored. As well, they probably will be eating dried rations.. Only the royal and wealthy can afford fresh carrots hehe. I do get your point though

elwhy

I'm just confused as to why they're making some ingredients old at all. Why make pepper old? Along this same line, why turn garlic in 1.5 into flour in 1.6 when they're turning salt into garlic! Why not just keep garlic as garlic, and salt into flour? It's probably due to flour being commonly used in 1.6 or something, but it seems ridiculous on paper...especially for something they redesigned with the intent of simplifying the whole process. Oh well...it is what it is, and Zeni does whatever they want.

Mantic0r3

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

How exactly can a one time sell hurt the long time economy ? Its not like we could find more and more of the old ingridients, also its not like an old would be worth multiple times of a new ingridient.

Seems like a lame exucse

Sasky

This makes the 'old' ingredients essentially worthless. If the sale of ingredients would hurt the economy that badly, at least turn the ingredients into equivalents. For example, map 2 items to carrots instead of having one map to carrots and one to trash that sells for 1/15th the cost of an ingredient.

HeroOfEvbof

Here is a basic truth: Grocers are useless npc's.

First, not every zone has a grocer. I have never found one in Shadowfen and the one in Bangkorai will disappear depending on quest choice.
Second, some zones have the grocer in the most inconvenient location. Reaper's March grocer is in Dune, way to the North and a city you only need to go when you are almost done with the quest-line for the zone. The Malabal Tor grocer is in a city crawling with bad guys until you finish the quest there. The Greenshade grocer is not in the same city as the Bank.
Third, grocers don't sell any meat. Thus you cannot make any purple food based on a trip to the grocer even if you have frost mirriam. Furthermore you can not make blue health/stam or blue health/magicka based on a trip to the grocer. As an emergency - "need food now" source, they are useless for any serious build except niche hybrids.
Fourth, with everything selling at 150g, you certainly would never ever want to use them for anything more than a half-stack. Even a half-stack of blue mag/stam food would cost 5400g. Will profit-oriented cooks be selling blue food at 112g each? Real cooks will know how to farm all the fruits/veggies/additives very efficiently so will they really be clearing 1350g profit for a eighth-stack of 12? Somehow I believe market forces will not allow for-profit cooks to clear this kind-of dough so it is unlikely any one running a niche hybrid build would need to waste their money on a grocer.
Fifth, everyone and their brothers and sisters will quickly discover how to gather fruits/veggies/additives easily. Since it is actually quite easy, why would anyone pay 3,750g per quarter-stack in a kiosk? Are we really prepared to say that the ingredients for 100 pieces of blue food in 1.6 is just under that a Primal Motif is in 1.5? Is gathering 25 poultry, 25 greens and 25 flour in 1.6 almost as hard/lucky as a purple motif drop in 1.5? Doubt it.

Thus the grocers are a waste of computing resources. Not that they are alone in this, I have been playing since beta and have never ever bought anything from a tailor.

xaraan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

Wow, this is pretty disappointing. Hard to not feel screwed over by you guys yet again.

We gathered ingredients that will now be useless just because you want to force a 'reset' on us to make it easier for new players to catch up.

This doubly hurts for rare ingredients we gathered and bought like pepper and tomatoes that will be worth practically nothing compared to what they were in the 'economy'.

Should we worry about other stuff you guys decide to reset for new players? Are you going to roll out septims and make all my gold worthless? How about alchemy plants? Any plans to create all new plants and make all the ones I have now worthless so new players don't feel behind?

More importantly, why should I get into your new game systems when this is how you treat players that have gotten into your existing game systems?

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

I am losing nearly 1 million gold due to redundant horses too can we address that also please.

ZRage

That's a good change I think flood of gold is just bad and there is always too many people who would abuse it and there you guaranteed hiper inflation of gold.

Kragorn

HeroOfEvbof wrote: »

Reaper's March grocer is in Dune, way to the North and a city you only need to go when you are almost done with the quest-line for the zone.

But since the things he sells are for 50+ food that's pretty much a non-issue it seems to me, you'll have found him before you need him .. and when you do he's stood right next to the Wayshrine for convenient shopping trips, I think there may even be a cooking fire nearby though I can't swear to that.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Yeah Rawl'Kha has everything you need in one tiny spot no need to go anywhere else and if you do you just portal to a grocer and back.

Face it, B2P is a dishonest model like all F2P variants. They will be trying from now on to trick you into buying from the store. One of the ways they are doing this is by making consumables much more rare and expensive so more ppl will buy them from their cash shop.

Not compensating properly for old ingredients because of "economic health" is a joke as that small surge will be gone within weeks, but they want ppl to start buying potions right away (note that cash shop potions will scale to v14 so they will always be better than in game crafted potions anyway which only go to v5) so yeah.

Welcome to B2P.